The Saint Posted at 2-10 10:28
yeah, that's the way it started out.  the shoe was on the other foot.  recreational pilots complained about it too.  but not about the "costs."

Yes, they already paid for remote ID even though they didn’t need it, their choice. But they insisted DJI do something about it. Guess they must be the better customers.

Little funfact: Because of the high limitation in Europe I applied to reclassify my drone from C0 to C1. This requires the drone to transmit eID for every flight afterwards - which it does even with the standard batteries.

Dirty Bird Posted at 2-10 16:23
You drone has not been rendered inoperable, nor was it rendered non-compliant.  No one is forcing you to buy a new drone.  The fact is your drone was NEVER required to broadcast RID when fitted with the standard battery.  The vast majority of complaints were about a sub-250 gram drone, not required to be registered with the FAA, that was needlessly broadcasting RID.  Most users value their privacy & did not want these unnecessary broadcasts advertising their location.   DJI corrected that with the update.

If you truly require RID then the worst case scenario is you sell the standard batteries & put the money towards Plus batteries.  Of course it so much more dramatic to portray yourself a victim claiming you have to buy a whole new drone...

Never portrayed that I had to buy a new drone, used a scenario to describe the extreme. You state the obvious known option on the batteries, far from the point. The drone WAS remote ID compliant and paid for as such prior to the update. You don’t get it.

fans0c5750c4 Posted at 2-10 16:35
Never portrayed that I had to buy a new drone, used a scenario to describe the extreme. You state the obvious known option on the batteries, far from the point. The drone WAS remote ID compliant and paid for as such prior to the update. You don’t get it.

Yeah, he doesn't get it. He's got what I call cognitive detritus syndrome. Flawed logic and can't even comprehend what the issue really is, even though it's been explained to him multiple times. The funny thing is he thinks he's the man. LOL! I've leveled more guys like this in many more aggressive forums. I'm just being nice around these parts to keep my account. You're wasting your time with him. He'll never get it.

Bananimal Posted at 2-10 18:47
Yeah, he doesn't get it. He's got what I call cognitive detritus syndrome. Flawed logic and can't even comprehend what the issue really is, even though it's been explained to him multiple times. The funny thing is he thinks he's the man. LOL! I've leveled more guys like this in many more aggressive forums. I'm just being nice around these parts to keep my account. You're wasting your time with him. He'll never get it.

Starting to think he is compensated by DJI to troll the forums. It’s like trying to have a battle of wit with an unarmed man. Lol

Bananimal Posted at 2-10 18:47
Yeah, he doesn't get it. He's got what I call cognitive detritus syndrome. Flawed logic and can't even comprehend what the issue really is, even though it's been explained to him multiple times. The funny thing is he thinks he's the man. LOL! I've leveled more guys like this in many more aggressive forums. I'm just being nice around these parts to keep my account. You're wasting your time with him. He'll never get it.

Keep it drone related,take the personal attacks elsewhere.

Dirty Bird Posted at 2-11 03:03
It’s like trying to have a battle of wit with an unarmed man. Lol

Me:  "Here are two solutions that will activate RID."

Bottom line, already paid for RID.

Dirty Bird Posted at 2-11 05:26
You get RID in the factory configurations when legally required.
Keep up the Karen routine & DJI may find a way to accomodate you...

Let’s hope so, you are pretty free with other peoples’ money though, aren’t ya!

Dirty Bird Posted at 2-11 05:26
You get RID in the factory configurations when legally required.
Keep up the Karen routine & DJI may find a way to accomodate you...

Actually we don't. There are zones in Europe where RID is a requirement but the Mini 4 doesn't tx.

(Yes, there is usage outside the good old US of A)

Dirty Bird Posted at 2-11 08:46
RID in Europe is a recent addition.  I am unfamiliar with the RID requirements in the UK or EU.  From what I have heard I thought it pretty much applies to ALL drones regardless of weight?

it depends on the classification and zone. Generally said it’s needed above 249 Gramms. But there might be situation where you are required to sent eID to fly in some airspaces.

Wow! I'd forgotten how much fun the forums could be.

Dirty Bird Posted at 2-11 08:46
RID in Europe is a recent addition.  I am unfamiliar with the RID requirements in the UK or EU.  From what I have heard I thought it pretty much applies to ALL drones regardless of weight?

It depends where you are but in Belgium in the outer regions of the airport control zones RID is mandatory for all drones regardless of weight.

Dirty Bird Posted at 2-11 08:44
If you have a legitimate need for RID while flying with the standard batteries then you should be making enough money off your venture to warrant the expense.   The drone is 100% RID compliant when flown in the default configurations.  That is what the recent firmware update addressed.  If you are doing something that takes it outside those bounds, like adding additional accessories or using it for 107 work, then the responsibility for compliance falls on you.

Is there a way DJI can accomodate users who want to force RID on while using standard batteries without running afoul of RID's "tamper" regulation I cannot say?  In the meantime the responsibility again falls on you.  The solution is easy.  Buy a Plus battery with your $30 discount, or purchase a RID module.

Wow, you just aren’t getting this. I am fully aware that I can conform to the requirement NOW by purchasing new batteries at $95 per piece and yes get 1 at $65 for the offered credit. But the reality of the situation is that I purchased an RID compliant setup in October. 2 months later, DJI made the change to make the setup I purchased non-compliant. With now $195 in battery cost that is useless, AND a needed $285 or $255 with the offered credit, there is a substantial difference in cost for the same functionality originally purchased. And you don’t see a problem with this? Also, if this was about quieting down recreational users complaining that RID was on, why did they purchase the Mini 4 Pro with RID? Those users knew exactly what they were buying, as did I. I don’t see why DJI would think causing a commercial user to have to spend more money, regardless of the amount, would be an acceptable solution. Can I afford to spend the money to remain compliant? Yes. But I shouldn’t have to.

fans0c5750c4 Posted at 2-11 13:11
Wow, you just aren’t getting this. I am fully aware that I can conform to the requirement NOW by purchasing new batteries at $95 per piece and yes get 1 at $65 for the offered credit. But the reality of the situation is that I purchased an RID compliant setup in October. 2 months later, DJI made the change to make the setup I purchased non-compliant. With now $195 in battery cost that is useless, AND a needed $285 or $255 with the offered credit, there is a substantial difference in cost for the same functionality originally purchased. And you don’t see a problem with this? Also, if this was about quieting down recreational users complaining that RID was on, why did they purchase the Mini 4 Pro with RID? Those users knew exactly what they were buying, as did I. I don’t see why DJI would think causing a commercial user to have to spend more money, regardless of the amount, would be an acceptable solution. Can I afford to spend the money to remain compliant? Yes. But I shouldn’t have to.

There is no problem with it,you have extra batteries period which equals more added flight time.
So how could it be 195 thrown away.

Freetime Posted at 2-11 13:21
There is no problem with it,you have extra batteries period which equals more added flight time.
So how could it be 195 thrown away.

Part 107 Pilot has to fly RID. Come March, can’t fly with those.

Dirty Bird Posted at 2-11 13:56
Here's what you don't seem get:  Assuming you even have a legitimate need for RID with the standard battery, for which I have my doubts, right now there is no RID with that setup.  You can either spring for a Plus battery, purchase a RID module, or you can continue to remain grounded while demanding to speak to the manager.  Cry or fly...your choice.

Also, your batteries are not "useless".  You can fly with them or sell them towards the purchase of Plus batteries.

Yes, many solutions, all with cost to me caused by a change from DJI to the drone I purchased from DJI.

fans0c5750c4 Posted at 2-11 18:50
Part 107 Pilot has to fly RID. Come March, can’t fly with those.

Yup,well aware of a Part 107 pilot having to have RID.Put a module on it,or better yet you should have
gotten a bigger model .Then you would not even be here having this conversation.

C.Pauly Posted at 2-10 12:42
Little funfact: Because of the high limitation in Europe I applied to reclassify my drone from C0 to C1. This requires the drone to transmit eID for every flight afterwards - which it does even with the standard batteries.

Are there any disadvantages to doing this?

C.Pauly Publicado el 2-10 12:42
Pequeño dato curioso: debido a la gran limitación en Europa, solicité reclasificar mi dron de C0 a C1. Esto requiere que el dron transmita la identificación electrónica en cada vuelo posterior, lo que hace incluso con las baterías estándar.

Hola,

¿Has conseguido que tu mini4pro tenga la certificación C1 en UE en lugar de C0?

Aparte de que el RID está transmitiendo incluso con la batería normal, cosa que no sé si DJI también ha hecho, ¿cómo se asegura que el UAS tenga siempre las luces indicadoras encendidas? Es uno de los requisitos de la UE para que el UAS sea C1 y el mini4pro sigue apagando las luces al grabar.

Freetime Posted at 2-11 20:08
Yup,well aware of a Part 107 pilot having to have RID.Put a module on it,or better yet you should have
gotten a bigger model .Then you would not even be here having this conversation.

After the fact, your observation and comment may seem obvious, but lame. At the time, my purchase decision was legitimate given the compliant function included. But I am sure your crystal ball would have seen this all beforehand, how lucky.

Dirty Bird Posted at 2-11 23:11
How does rolling back to the previous firmware cost you money?

Change is a part of life.  All these rules, regulations, RID, etc..  DJI is not the one behind it all.  They are stuck trying to figure out a way to create new products while complying with ever-changing mandates.  Blame your government.  Hold the party responsible to account.

Not sure the requirement has been “ever changing “, and I understand the need for the requirement - no government conspiracy theories from me. I am holding the proper party to account. DJI offered and sold a solution to meet the requirement and then changed it.

Dirty Bird Posted at 2-12 03:31
The initial Mini 4 firmware releases exceeded the requirements.  In response to the concerns & wishes of the vast majority of users DJI made the product conform to the legal requirements for RID.  You wish to use the product in a configuration that falls outside those normal requirements.  Again, that places the onus for compliance on you.  We can go back & forth forever but that's the way it is for now unless DJI can find a way around it.  Again, have you tried rolling back the firmware to the previous version?  Fly or cry is up to you.

An analogy to your demand would be when the Mini 3 Pro was made compatible with the Goggles 2/Integra.   The initial firmware included a method that allowed them to be used with a standard RC, as opposed to functioning with the Motion Controller 2 for which they were designed.  DJI closed that loophole in a subsequent firmware release.  Some users might use your logic to claim they only purchased the goggles because they worked with a regular RC.  They might insist they already paid to use the goggles with a standard RC & DJI was ripping them off by taking it away.  Basing a purchase on an anomaly is often a mistake.

I am responsible to comply. Purchase was not made on an anomaly. Purchase was made with a stated function. Launch in September, I bought in October and firmware change in December. So all of the recreational users who bought knew the firmware change was coming? Or they accepted RID was part of the product they bought and then complained until it was changed. DJI just needs to get it right for ALL their customers.

Dirty Bird Posted at 2-12 06:24
It was an anomaly as it never should have broadcast RID when used with a standard battery.  You keep avoiding the question:  Have you tried rolling back the firmware?  The previous version broadcasts RID with either battery.  Rolling back could solve your problem.

I have not attempted to rollback. From what I am reading on the forums, DJI Assist 2 does not allow a downgrade, just a refresh to the current firmware. I will continue to work with DJI support on the issue. Not updating firmware is a temporary solution, not long term.

pteron Posted at 2-12 00:50
Are there any disadvantages to doing this?

You need to obtain the small pilot certificate and you are need to avoid to fly over uninvolved people

fansd91f6f34 Posted at 2-12 01:14
Hola,

¿Has conseguido que tu mini4pro tenga la certificación C1 en UE en lugar de C0?

Hola, para solicitar el certificado C1 te recomiendo que sigas las instrucciones de este hilo:


https://forum.dji.com/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=306652&pid=3237817

Dirty Bird Posted at 2-12 03:31
The initial Mini 4 firmware releases exceeded the requirements.  In response to the concerns & wishes of the vast majority of users DJI made the product conform to the legal requirements for RID.  You wish to use the product in a configuration that falls outside those normal requirements.  Again, that places the onus for compliance on you.  We can go back & forth forever but that's the way it is for now unless DJI can find a way around it.  Again, have you tried rolling back the firmware to the previous version?  Fly or cry is up to you.

An analogy to your demand would be when the Mini 3 Pro was made compatible with the Goggles 2/Integra.   The initial firmware included a method that allowed them to be used with a standard RC, as opposed to functioning with the Motion Controller 2 for which they were designed.  DJI closed that loophole in a subsequent firmware release.  Some users might use your logic to claim they only purchased the goggles because they worked with a regular RC.  They might insist they already paid to use the goggles with a standard RC & DJI was ripping them off by taking it away.  Basing a purchase on an anomaly is often a mistake.

I have a Mini 2 and a Mini 4 Pro.  I fly only recreationally, and so far only under 250g.  Both were (until yesterday) registered with the FAA.  I've been planning to buy a couple of extended batteries for the M4P but haven't pulled the trigger yet.

Before the recent update I could have used either battery type as I saw fit.

After the update, if I want to fly my registered M4P using a regular battery I'd first need to add a heavy and expensive RemoteID transmitter, thus no longer able to operate <250g.

So I canceled my registration, and can again operate <250g with the regular battery.  But I lost the option to fly with the heavy battery, because it triggers mandatory registration.

The FAA could fix this by letting rec flyers get multiple registrations for a single unit, like they do for part 107 fliers.  I won't hold my breath.

An amusing but expensive workaround would be to register your drone every time you switch from <250 to >250 operation, then unregister it every time you switch back to <250.  It costs $5 for each new registration but only takes a couple of minutes.  I wonder how many cycles of that I could go through before my phone rings.

C.Pauly Posted at 2-12 15:23
You need to obtain the small pilot certificate and you are need to avoid to fly over uninvolved people

Thanks. I've done the cert anyway, it was good info (Thanks LUX CAA for producing the course in English too!)

C1 is also limited to 120m AGL, so what's the advantage of moving the drone onto it?

My mini 4 is declassified so in theory the height limit shouldn't be enforced by the firmware.

Dirty Bird Posted at 2-13 02:02
It costs $5 for each new registration but only takes a couple of minutes.

When flying recreationally the $5 fee covers ALL of your aircraft under a single registration & FAA number.   If you are only flying recreationally with standard batteries don't include the Mini 4 on your aircraft list.  If you occasionally use Plus batteries, add it to the list.  I would not be stressing over RID when operating recreationally under 250 grams, though if desired you could add or remove the Mini 4 from your list at will for no charge.

"If you are only flying recreationally with standard batteries don't include the Mini 4 on your aircraft list"

https://www.faa.gov/uas/getting_started/remote_id#  says:  

"Which Drones Must Comply With Remote ID?

Drones which are required to be registered or have been registered, including those flown for recreation, business, or public safety, must comply with the rule on Remote ID."

No registered drone operating <250g for any purpose, whether registered voluntarily or by mandate, may fly without RID.

When entering the registration, you must choose whether the device uses Standard RID or RID Broadcast module (see attached image).  So if registering for the high-cap battery, you must first re-add the device (it doens't look like you you can edit your existing canceled registration) you'd choose "StandardRID".  If using the other battery you'd just leave the device unregistered for that f

"If you occasionally use Plus batteries, add it to the list.  I would not be stressing over RID when operating recreationally under 250 grams"

This isn't about stress, it's about compliance.  And I already pointed a pilot could toggle registration status every time they plan to launch with a different battery capacity than your previous launch should technically work.  So yeah, it is technically possible but impractical.

But you can't just switch the drone back to registered status, you have to initiate a new registration and pay the $5.  I suppose I could re-register my M2 (which I don't use) and leave it as a registration place-holding zombie, then add and delete my M4P as needed when I want to swap battery types.  Even if that all works it's still absurd.

Bottom line, before DJI implemented this unannounced "feature", my M4P was fully RID compliant regardless of battery.  Now it is not, and options for battery use have been dropped into a regulatory quagmire.  The sole beneficiary of the change is a recreational M4P pilot operating only <250g, who really hates RID.

This isn't a nothing-burger.

"The entire web of consumer drone regulations is unwarranted & ill-conceived.  A solution in search of a problem..."

On that we are in full agreement.

SteveMo Posted at 2-13 10:43
"If you are only flying recreationally with standard batteries don't include the Mini 4 on your aircraft list"

https://www.faa.gov/uas/getting_started/remote_id#  says:  "Which Drones Must Comply With Remote ID?Drones which are required to be registered or have been registered, including those flown for recreation, business, or public safety, must comply with the rule on Remote ID."

. . . I am that user that operates <250g and really hates RID.

As for swapping registrations: At some point; you simply have to say "enough".  Like; when I (out of the blue) received an updated tax form in July (4 months after mandatory filing date) that changed my income by about $2 - - -> which required me to submit an updated tax return.

-----------------------
My view is the real objective is to BAN drones entirely (For lots of reasons best not put on this board). . . .but they can't because;
1) There is legitimate business need for the technology
2) nobody wants to outlaw *toys*.

I would not be a darned bit surprised if registration/RID moves down to 125g.

pteron Posted at 2-12 23:36
Thanks. I've done the cert anyway, it was good info (Thanks LUX CAA for producing the course in English too!)

C1 is also limited to 120m AGL, so what's the advantage of moving the drone onto it?

Hi,

But you need to stay in VLOS and if a mini is at 120 m it is already very difficult (some people can't) to see it ... So why need to go higher?

jonasm1990 Posted at 2-14 01:46
Hi,

But you need to stay in VLOS and if a mini is at 120 m it is already very difficult (some people can't) to see it ... So why need to go higher?

Because the way DJI enforce the 120m rule is 120m above take off point whereas the actual rule is 120m AGL.

I'd prefer the flexibility to make my own decision.

pteron Posted at 2-14 02:47
Because the way DJI enforce the 120m rule is 120m above take off point whereas the actual rule is 120m AGL.

I'd prefer the flexibility to make my own decision.

If we're talking about EASA fly space, we have 2 EU regulations, 2019/945 and 2019/947. One is related to users and one to manufacturers.
The one for users requires you to fly below 120m AGL, but also distinguishes between drone categories where as user you don't need any "education" about how to fly up to A1/A3 certificate and A2 certificate, etc..
Second one specifies how the drone in it's category should behave and how the manufacturer should prepare it to comply with this regulation. Therefore if you combine these 2 rules, we have C0 drone that requires no education, and it could be expected that user of such drone is therefore not aware about any legal height restrictions, it is therefore hard-limited to 120m from takeoff point so even the uneducated user won't fly to 500m during first fly, but would comply to requirements. Just as of C1 drones, where at least A1/A3 certificate is required and thus it is expected that user already knows about 120m AGL requirement are able to fly higher..
There was a good intention when these rules were written, but yes, the same rules are limiting users that know what they're doing but bought C0 drone..

C.Pauly Posted at 2-12 15:23
You need to obtain the small pilot certificate and you are need to avoid to fly over uninvolved people

...    you are need to avoid to fly over uninvolved people

but you´re allowed to do so, only not allowed to fly over a group (12) of persons, such as demonstrations, concerts, in C2 you can fly near (min 5m) uninvolved persons with max 3km/h min. 5m elevation. 1:1 rule

I'm resident in EU and thinking about buying a mini4 Pro. That should be delivered with C0 as far as I do understand. C0 is enough for me and no Remote ID is currently necessary for a standard mini4 pro in EU. But I'm going to travel to Japan and would like to use the drone there.
Remote ID is mandatory for that drone in Japan.
What I am not certain now is, if I use my C0 drone in Japan, will I be able to enter and use the Japanese Remote ID?
Or do I need to upgrade to C1 to use Remote ID in Japan?

Correct my if I am wrong, but the M4P knows when the DJI prop gaurds are installed, yes? Which would puts the craft over 250g and should turn on the internal RID module. That could solve the "tamper proofing" issue.

Yes, propeller guards are automatically recognized, but also obstacle sensing is turned off at the same moment.

djiuser_NX3wNaZoT1Mb Posted at 2-18 06:38
I'm resident in EU and thinking about buying a mini4 Pro. That should be delivered with C0 as far as I do understand. C0 is enough for me and no Remote ID is currently necessary for a standard mini4 pro in EU. But I'm going to travel to Japan and would like to use the drone there.
Remote ID is mandatory for that drone in Japan.
What I am not certain now is, if I use my C0 drone in Japan, will I be able to enter and use the Japanese Remote ID?

Hi there. Thank you for reaching out. We will forward this concern of yours to our relevant team for further clarification. We will keep you posted. Thank you for your patience.

DJI Paladin Posted at 1-8 02:02
Yes, after updating the firmware v01.00.03.00 and later, only the Intelligent Flight Battery PLUS supports broadcasting FAA Remote ID and you may need to install a third-party RID Module if you wish to use the unit with the standard Intelligent Flight Battery. Hope this helps.

I purchased 2 standard batteries under the false pretense that they would be legal to use as a part 107 pilot  with remote ID. IS DJI going to buy back the standard batteries? I would have bought all plus batteries if I knew I would not be  compliant with my standard DJI batteries.

djiuser_NFe0zxRDxr2x Posted at 3-1 20:16
I purchased 2 standard batteries under the false pretense that they would be legal to use as a part 107 pilot  with remote ID. IS DJI going to buy back the standard batteries? I would have bought all plus batteries if I knew I would not be  compliant with my standard DJI batteries.

Hi there. Thank you for reaching out. Regretfully, we don't have any buyback promotion available. If you want to use the standard Intelligent flight battery, you can install a third-party RID module that meets the requirements of the aircraft for compliant flight. We appreciate your understanding and support.

DJI Paladin Posted at 3-4 02:09
Hi there. Thank you for reaching out. Regretfully, we don't have any buyback promotion available. If you want to use the standard Intelligent flight battery, you can install a third-party RID module that meets the requirements of the aircraft for compliant flight. We appreciate your understanding and support.

As someone who JUST bought a Mini 4 Pro and is looking into getting the 107, any chance you know if DJI will release a FW update that include RID when using regular (non plus) batteries?