My Action 4, no matter what cable I use or port on my computer, will not connect at USB3 speeds.   Is anyone else having this issue?

----------

Well, thank you, good to know I'm not the only one seeing this.   Anyone else seeing similar behavior (either by looking at link speeds or by copy speed from the Osmo to their PC)?

You're far more patient than I am if you're "OK" with this.   The USB3 standard (5Gb/s vs 480Mb/s; roughly 10X the speed compared to USB2) was released in 2008.   That's close to 20 years ago!   DJI is releasing cameras using a technology that was superseded 20 years ago?!   

Or, looking at it another way, the card in my camera, if I remove it and put it a reader, is good for ~200MB/s (reading).   In the Osmo, I'll get ~30MB/s.   That's also close to 1/10th the speed.   

But, it's a little worse than that because with a high speed USB card, you can import your footage directly into an editor (without copying) and scrub/edit pretty smoothly.   At 30MB/s, not a chance, Davinci will just die trying to scrub.   So instead of editing right off the camera, I have to copy all the footage to the computer (which can take an hour+ for a long shoot) before I can start my editing.

Oh, no problem, just pull the card and put it into a fast reader!   Well, yes, that does work,, but a few fundamental problems:

1)  All the Osmo cases block the MicroSD slot, so now you have to pull it from the case every time to download, pain in the rear, but not the end of the world
2)  MicroSD cards are not designed for tons of insertion/removal cycles.   MicroSD cards are really built to be inserted and left alone, SD cards are built for repeated in/out cycles.
3)  MicroSD slots (the part on the Osmo) are also not designed for a ton of insertion/removals, and, when the slot fails, that's the end of your Osmo

I just cannot believe that DJI would go with a USB2 interface on this type of device.   Or, if they were going to do that, do what cameras do, use SD and make it easy in/out of the camera!

Hopefully you/I are seeing an error and there's a way to get the slot up to USB3 speeds.   I'd be really disappointed if this was the final answer.   

----------

----------

osmonauta Posted at 3-19 15:46
I wonder if the camera can detect if it's connected to a USB-C computer port and only then it utilizes USB3 speeds? Like in the case of fast charging, it only utilizes it if it's connected to a USB-C hole. I only have USB-A ports on my laptop so I can't test the theory.

I can confirm, no, it does not.   The port that I was testing is a USB-C port (3.2) on my computer, if I plug in my phone, it goes directly to SS (super speed, AKA, USB3).   Plugging in the Osmo on the same port, it won't negotiate higher than HS (high speed, AKA, USB2).   

Now, it is possible there's an issue on my end; which is the reason for this question, if others are seeing a USB3 connection (or greater than ~35MB/s downloads from the camera) then I'll continue digging and see if there's something I can do to force a USB3 connection.   But if the camera is only capable of USB2, which I suspect is the issue, well.... ~30MB/s is all you'll ever get, no matter what you do.

osmonauta Posted at 3-19 15:42
I have to admit I was "ok" with the speed because I film almost exclusively in 1080 and the files can be pulled out of the camera under relatively short amount of time. I think the MOST I had to wait was like 15-17 minutes. During that time I went to take a shower and made a cup of tea and by the time I was done the files were downloaded.

But I have to agree with you. If I were into the world of 4K (or even 2.7k) then I'd prolly be fuming like you and would be doing the "Pull My Card" dance moves. Yes, I've also read about that pulling microSD cards constantly in/out is not a good practice.

With the action 4 (not sure about action 3) the file sizes are 16gb be it 1080 or 4k so it takes a wee while to transfer over, that said, I've not done it via USB (i think i only have USB 2.0 anyway), I always use the inbuilt reader and it transfers at about 80mb/s (256gb SanDisk Extreme Pro).

Just done a test with a 9gb file

Laptop (USB 2.0) to Action 4 6mb/s
Laptop (USB 2.0) to Note 20 ultra SD card 41mb/s

Note 20 Ultra SD to internal 57mb/s (the SD could be limiting it)
Note 20 ultra SD to Action 4 30mb/s
Note 20 ultra internal to Action 4 30/mbs

Action 4 to laptop (USB 2.0)  36mb/s

Seems to line up with what I'm seeing.   I have a fast micro SD card in the Action 4, if I pull it and put it into my reader (which is USB3), I'll see 150-180MB/s to a NVME drive inside the computer.   When I connect the action 4 via a USB3 cable, I generally get around 30MB/s, you're doing a bit better at 36MB/s, but both of them are obviously being limited by the USB2 interface on the Action 4.   

Why DJI, why?   It's crazy that they would use such an old/slow standard on a device that is going to create massive files like a 4K camera.   I have cameras that are close to 7 years old now (Nikon) that have full speed USB3 interfaces on them; and phones have been at USB3 for a long, long time now.   Neither of them, however, can come close to generating the file sizes that an action camera will spit out in just a few hours of recording.   I cannot fathom the discussion around this in the room of the product manager for the Action cameras; let's save 25c on the USB chip?   ;)

Michael Fink Posted at 3-20 03:30
Seems to line up with what I'm seeing.   I have a fast micro SD card in the Action 4, if I pull it and put it into my reader (which is USB3), I'll see 150-180MB/s to a NVME drive inside the computer.   When I connect the action 4 via a USB3 cable, I generally get around 30MB/s, you're doing a bit better at 36MB/s, but both of them are obviously being limited by the USB2 interface on the Action 4.   

Why DJI, why?   It's crazy that they would use such an old/slow standard on a device that is going to create massive files like a 4K camera.   I have cameras that are close to 7 years old now (Nikon) that have full speed USB3 interfaces on them; and phones have been at USB3 for a long, long time now.   Neither of them, however, can come close to generating the file sizes that an action camera will spit out in just a few hours of recording.   I cannot fathom the discussion around this in the room of the product manager for the Action cameras; let's save 25c on the USB chip?   ;)

Yeah, i agree, why in this day and age is it only connecting at USB 2.0 speed of around 30mb/s when its actually USB-C and should be much faster, thats why i tried it connecting to my Note 20 Ultra because thats also USB-C and i know its a fast socket.

DJI, is it something that has been overlooked in the software and it just needs tweaking or are we stuck with these slow speeds from the Action 4?

Bashy Posted at 3-20 04:15
Yeah, i agree, why in this day and age is it only connecting at USB 2.0 speed of around 30mb/s when its actually USB-C and should be much faster, thats why i tried it connecting to my Note 20 Ultra because thats also USB-C and i know its a fast socket.

I honestly can't fathom why that decision was made.   I will tell you, it's not just DJI, Insta has the same problem, they also used USB2 chips in some of their action cameras.   I think a lot of it, companies think that most people are going to be editing on their phones, no need to download the full files, just edit directly.   And maybe they are right, that could be their "typical" user, I don't think it is, when I talk to others who use this type of camera to make videos, nearly all of them are using Davinci/Final Cut, or some other computer based application to make their edits/final composition.   But the trend is clear, a lot of editing is heading to phones, love it or hate it.   I cannot imagine trying to color grade or cut up hours of footage on a 5" screen compared to my 42" monitor with a bank of NVME drives, a speed editor jog wheel and other niceties that are exclusive to computers, but hey, what do I know??

Bashy Posted at 3-20 04:16
DJI, is it something that has been overlooked in the software and it just needs tweaking or are we stuck with these slow speeds from the Action 4?

I'd be shocked if this can be fixed with firmware.   I suspect they used a USB2 chip in the device; I guess it could just be a glitch, but, seems more likely they didn't put a SS USB interface in the device at all.   

What's even more shocking, I can't find a single review of the Action 4 that discusses this.   It's a pretty big deal for anyone editing on a modern (like last 15 years, when USB3 was standard) computer.   We're at around 1/5th the speed we should be downloading files, and those files are huge, you'd think that this would be something reviewers would test/comment on?

What's funny, when you get to higher end cameras, they move to cards that are rocket fast (CF Express Type B, for example, which can do over 1GB/s) because of how impactful ingest time can be.   And, because, as I mentioned before, with a fast enough card, you can do your initial cuts right off the card, no need to ingest at all.

Seems silly to me that pro cameras are going faster and faster on the interface while consumer cameras seem to be moving backwards.   I guess you could consider my Nikon DSLR's "pro", but they've had USB3 interfaces for close to a decade now (and they honestly don't even need them, if you're taking pictures, USB2 is not that big a deal, and if you're shooting video, they are SD and CF cards, they are designed to come in/out of the camera 100's of time).   

Maybe the Action5?

If DJI were to comment, the first thing they would ask is what your cards are, if they're not on their list of approved cards - they'd tell you to use them and try again... then you'd be really disappointed at transfer speeds.

m326 Posted at 3-20 05:48
If DJI were to comment, the first thing they would ask is what your cards are, if they're not on their list of approved cards - they'd tell you to use them and try again... then you'd be really disappointed at transfer speeds.

LOL.   I already jumped that hoop, I bought a card they specifically call out for Osmo (which is a tiny list, but I was able to find one, the Samsung Extreme).   

The card is rocket fast in a reader, it can legitimately do close to 200MB/s reading, which is both amazing and fantastic.   But, no joy in the Osmo; it's the old 25-30MB/s limited by USB2 transfer speeds.   

It would just be nice to know, factually, does the Action 4 have a USB 3 chip in it?   If it does, I have a problem on my end.    If it does not, well, there isn't a problem, just a product issue that perhaps DJI can fix in the next iteration.

Um... at risk of pointing out the totally obvious... these cameras use Micro SD cards at UHS-1 speeds! Not UHS-II, so that is your bottleneck. Matters not if you plugged them into a recent Thunderbolt port.. it can still only pull the data off the card as fast as the card can deliver it. They say "UHS-II compatible", but that is BACKWARDS compatible. There are no two rows of pins in the Osmo's, at this time. Even if you take the card and slot it into the fastest reader available - no difference. The card can only go as fast as it can go... that is why they have direct to SSD and C-Fast options for some cameras. In reality, the only downside is it takes a while longer to transfer your footage from the camera/card to your computer. That's it. Don't try and edit direct from the card, never a good strategy, even with C-Fast or full size UHS-II cards.

UHS1 tops out near 100MB/s though, right?   That's still over double what I'm able to get from the camera.   And, from my experimentation, it's not the USH 1 vs 2 that's the problem, it's that the camera is connecting at USB2 speeds.   Even if the internal connector is UHS1, which I suspect it is, that would still get you 3X the speed if the port was USB3.

There is a massive difference taking the card from the Osmo and putting it into a fast reader.   5-10X improvement in speed.   I'm happy to post up picture copying the same file, one from the Osmo, one from my reader (which is what I use for my pro cards, it's USB3 connected and can do 100's of MB/s when  you give it a fast card; using the card from my Osmo, it's ~120-180MB/s).   

When I'm using a fast card, I do all my scrubbing and cuts directly off the card.   It's fast enough that I can get the clips sorted out and avoid the transfer to my computer of the raw files, just do the final output to a local drive.   But, in general, I do agree, it's risky, especially if you're using an application that gets angry when the source files disappear (disconnecting the card while editing).   Davinci doesn't mind, obviously the clips stop playing, but you don't lose any edits or have a lock up, it just tells you the clips are offline until you reinsert the card.   

You're right, the only downside is the time to transfer.   But there's a big delta there, what I can download in 10 minutes using my reader takes over an hour to pull off the Osmo directly.   

Natural Sounds and Sights Posted at 3-20 09:04
Um... at risk of pointing out the totally obvious... these cameras use Micro SD cards at UHS-1 speeds! Not UHS-II, so that is your bottleneck. Matters not if you plugged them into a recent Thunderbolt port.. it can still only pull the data off the card as fast as the card can deliver it. They say "UHS-II compatible", but that is BACKWARDS compatible. There are no two rows of pins in the Osmo's, at this time. Even if you take the card and slot it into the fastest reader available - no difference. The card can only go as fast as it can go... that is why they have direct to SSD and C-Fast options for some cameras. In reality, the only downside is it takes a while longer to transfer your footage from the camera/card to your computer. That's it. Don't try and edit direct from the card, never a good strategy, even with C-Fast or full size UHS-II cards.

The camera itself is only capable of around 30-36mb/s transfer speeds, try it yourself and you will see, if the camera was capable of UHS-II it would still only be 30-36mb/s unless they also sorted out the USB socket/software as well. Try it, the card is irrelevant at the moment, I thin i stated which card i am using and that it is capable of a fraction over 80mb/s read speeds (not tried write speeds) on this old laptop when using the internal card reader.

That said, i do agree with transferring to the lappy/pc/mac and then edit from there as HDD's are far faster than SD and then there's SSD of which are far faster than HDD's. Having said that, the cards on the recommended list are capable of some editing it will just be so much slower, i wouldnt recommend editing anything higher than 1080 when direct from the card. I have edited 4k on my note 20 ultra but if i record at 8k/24 (HEVC no choice) video it will say that its saving to the internal memory.

Michael Fink Posted at 3-20 04:52
I'd be shocked if this can be fixed with firmware.   I suspect they used a USB2 chip in the device; I guess it could just be a glitch, but, seems more likely they didn't put a SS USB interface in the device at all.   

What's even more shocking, I can't find a single review of the Action 4 that discusses this.   It's a pretty big deal for anyone editing on a modern (like last 15 years, when USB3 was standard) computer.   We're at around 1/5th the speed we should be downloading files, and those files are huge, you'd think that this would be something reviewers would test/comment on?

I reckon that if they went the CF route then the price would also rocket, not to mention the cost of the cards too. I suppose that there has to be a line somewhere for consumer vs pro, heck, if the price hadn't dropped a decent amount i wouldn't have bought this OA4. I do regret not buying the GoPro Max as that was at a similar price a short while before, I procrastinate and then its too late lol. That said, i am not disappointed in the OA4 except for the slow transfer speeds but so far, i have never actually transferred in that way before the test, i always pop out the card. I even bought a card reader to use on my Note 20 Ultra in case i ever want to edit from that out in the field.

Bashy Posted at 3-20 17:33
The camera itself is only capable of around 30-36mb/s transfer speeds, try it yourself and you will see, if the camera was capable of UHS-II it would still only be 30-36mb/s unless they also sorted out the USB socket/software as well. Try it, the card is irrelevant at the moment, I thin i stated which card i am using and that it is capable of a fraction over 80mb/s read speeds (not tried write speeds) on this old laptop when using the internal card reader.

That said, i do agree with transferring to the lappy/pc/mac and then edit from there as HDD's are far faster than SD and then there's SSD of which are far faster than HDD's. Having said that, the cards on the recommended list are capable of some editing it will just be so much slower, i wouldnt recommend editing anything higher than 1080 when direct from the card. I have edited 4k on my note 20 ultra but if i record at 8k/24 (HEVC no choice) video it will say that its saving to the internal memory.

While I agree with everything you posted, one comment; a fast microSD card is actually faster than a spinning HDD.   The microSD card I use in the Osmo is capable of close to 200MB/s, a typical (5K) HDD can't hit that speed.   A 7.2K or 10K disk can, but, add in any random IO, a high end MicroSD will still be faster.

Now, that said, I do agree with the general consensus that it's not a great plan to edit direct from the MicroSD.   I do it sometimes, particularly when I know I have tons of video but only really want a tiny amount of it; I'll scrub from the SD, find the clip(s) I want, and then export them off the microSD.   

With SD or CF cards, I do most of my editing and scrubbing right from the card.   They are nearly as fast as an SSD (some are as fast amazing enough!), and I feel they are much more reliable than microSD cards.   

Now, of course, when I get down to my "keepers" and am assembling the final, I'll have everything on an NVME drive which blows away basically everything for speed.   My NVME drive is around 30X the speed of a MicroSD, or around 120X the speed of reading using USB from the Osmo.   It's just in a completely different league for speed.

I'm sure at some point we'll get cameras with either NVME slots or a built in NVME drive.   A 512GB NVME only costs about 50 bucks today, and can run at 1000's of MB/s.   Couple that with a USB4 connection, it would be perfect for editing right on the camera and/or downloading at high (HIGH) speed.

m326 Posted at 3-20 05:48
If DJI were to comment, the first thing they would ask is what your cards are, if they're not on their list of approved cards - they'd tell you to use them and try again... then you'd be really disappointed at transfer speeds.

For me, i think i mentioned that i was using the SanDisk Extreme Pro

Bashy Posted at 3-20 17:42
I reckon that if they went the CF route then the price would also rocket, not to mention the cost of the cards too. I suppose that there has to be a line somewhere for consumer vs pro, heck, if the price hadn't dropped a decent amount i wouldn't have bought this OA4. I do regret not buying the GoPro Max as that was at a similar price a short while before, I procrastinate and then its too late lol. That said, i am not disappointed in the OA4 except for the slow transfer speeds but so far, i have never actually transferred in that way before the test, i always pop out the card. I even bought a card reader to use on my Note 20 Ultra in case i ever want to edit from that out in the field.

CF would, as you said, probably jump the cost up a lot.   But SD and microSD use the same pinouts (which is why you can convert them passively), the only downside of a full SD card is the additional space it takes up.   If you're not going to put in a USB3 chip (honestly, this is the right answer, but if you're not able or going to do it) then put in an SD slot instead.   You can get really fast SD cards and they are made for many, many insertion cycles.   I have some that have been in/out of my DSLRs 100's, maybe 1000's of times that are still chugging along just fine.  And, of course, SD cards are quite a bit faster than microSD, I have some cards that are rated close to 300MB/s and real world, will average over 200MB/s.   That's close to 10X the speed you can get over the USB2 interface on the Osmo!

Michael Fink Posted at 3-20 17:51
CF would, as you said, probably jump the cost up a lot.   But SD and microSD use the same pinouts (which is why you can convert them passively), the only downside of a full SD card is the additional space it takes up.   If you're not going to put in a USB3 chip (honestly, this is the right answer, but if you're not able or going to do it) then put in an SD slot instead.   You can get really fast SD cards and they are made for many, many insertion cycles.   I have some that have been in/out of my DSLRs 100's, maybe 1000's of times that are still chugging along just fine.  And, of course, SD cards are quite a bit faster than microSD, I have some cards that are rated close to 300MB/s and real world, will average over 200MB/s.   That's close to 10X the speed you can get over the USB2 interface on the Osmo!

Are you referring to UHS-II cards?

Bashy Posted at 3-20 17:53
Are you referring to UHS-II cards?

Yes, I use UHS-II cards in all my cameras.   Even if the camera can't write at UHS-II speeds, my reader can empty the card at those speeds.   That's when I really care about speed, as long as the card can keep up with the camera, I don't care how fast it writes.   

Until you get to really high end stuff that does things like recording ProRes and another format at the same time at 8/12K, write speeds aren't generally going to be a problem.   

Hi, Michael Fink. Thank you for reaching out. The USB interface for the ACTION series is a USB 2.0 interface, which does not support the transmission speed of 3.0.

DJI Gamora Posted at 3-21 07:26
Hi, Michael Fink. Thank you for reaching out. The USB interface for the ACTION series is a USB 2.0 interface, which does not support the transmission speed of 3.0.

Thank you very much for the confirmation.

Can you please pass along to the devs/hardware team, USB 3 would be a very nice to have feature in the next version of the Action.   I'd absolutely upgrade to get a USB3 interface!

Michael Fink Posted at 3-21 07:29
Thank you very much for the confirmation.

Can you please pass along to the devs/hardware team, USB 3 would be a very nice to have feature in the next version of the Action.   I'd absolutely upgrade to get a USB3 interface!

I'll be more than happy to forward it to our relevant team, Michael Fink. All significant suggestions will be implemented after the evaluation of our relevant team. For the latest updates please stay tuned to our DJI official website at ( www.dji.com ). Thank you for your kind understanding.

DJI Gamora Posted at 2024-3-21 07:26
Hi, Michael Fink. Thank you for reaching out. The USB interface for the ACTION series is a USB 2.0 interface, which does not support the transmission speed of 3.0.

Unbelieavable. Is this true for Osmo Action 5 Pro as well?

If you have to transfer near-full cards or really huge files in a hurry, the quickest way is to eject the card and use a separate, fast card reader. Sandisk do a really good high speed USB-C reader and you can use a card adapter to go from micro to full size.  Speeds are way higher than you get with the camera plugged in. Mostly I am not in a huge rush, but if I am, that's what I do.

marko_a Posted at 1-26 01:41
Unbelieavable. Is this true for Osmo Action 5 Pro as well?

Hi there, DJI Action 5 Pro supports USB 3.0. This allows for faster data transfer speeds when connecting to compatible devices, which can be beneficial for transferring high-resolution footage.

Transfer speed is determined by the lowest speed between the port and the cable. For example, if a USB 3.0 port is used with a USB 2.0 cable, the transfer speed is subject to the USB 2.0 standard.

We hope this information helps you. Thank you for supporting DJI!

Michael Fink Posted at 2024-3-21 07:29
Thank you very much for the confirmation.

Can you please pass along to the devs/hardware team, USB 3 would be a very nice to have feature in the next version of the Action.   I'd absolutely upgrade to get a USB3 interface!

Action 5 also has 33 Mbps