I think at this point, it's safe to say ATTI mode is one thing and our Neo has a completely unique mode we can dub Harakiri.

From post #45, " It is not a low light or GPS condition since the RC-N3 controller had no issues. It is likely a firmware issue with the Neo/G3/MC3 combo."  Firmware issue could be a contributing factor.  Someone on another thread put black tape over the downward sensors. Took off and the Neo went into the uncontrollable mode. Anyone willing to test to see if the camera lens visual sensor if it even is part of the system is a part of the issue?  Cover and try a LOS flight in a bright environment over a highly textured surface.  Not for me, but maybe time for another Drone Wilder Neo video?

Issue also with the FPV RC3. Others have noted same fly away issue with the RC-N3. Ambient indoor light level is difficult to accurately measure by eyeballs alone.  Basically what one perceives as low or well lighted may not be so.  Not an  auto switch to ATTI mode. ATTI mode you still have stick input and have the chance of regaining control.  Given the large number of posts in a significant number of threads about this issue. Nothing really from DJI.  Guessing not a problem that can be simply fixed or fixed at all.  Days like today are days I had planned to use the Neo indoors.  Cold, wet, and windy outdoors. I guess a Sim session to get my fpv fix.

ashpr Posted at 10-30 16:01
I have the same issue.

I have the DJI NEO with the RC-N3 controller. With the RC-N3 there are no issues whatsoever (either outdoor or indoor).

Update 3:

The rains have finally stopped and I had the chance to try the Neo/G3/MC3 outside (daytime). No runaway issues whatsoever so far after several tries. I have not tried the RCN3 outdoors again since I purchased the G3/MC3 but before they came, RCN3 outdoors had no issues.

So to recap the NEO has runaway issues indoors with both MC3 and RCN3. This is not sometimes, it always happens. Can be 3-4x or more in one battery cycle, cloudy day with medium indoor lighting. There are no issues outdoors (daytime).

As someone said, indoors the Neo appears to activate its harakiri mode.

[deleted message]

After three test flights yesterday, I believe I have solved this--at least partially. Two flights with the G3/MC3 and one with the RC2. One was a lengthy flight in a crawl space that's so dark I have to tweak the video in order to see anything. But I'm tentatively declaring victory--no crashes! The reason I say it's a "partial" solution is that I still get the "position sensing failed ... fly with caution" warnings on the RC2, but it no longer accelerates headlong into the nearest hard thing.

I already had a very lightweight strobe   https://a.co/d/hxsTVLl   which has a continuous ON mode. It's quite small and weighs ~6g. I 3D printed a tiny 90º "angle" (basically an L-shape) and used small pieces of "Extreme Outdoor" Velcro to attach the angle piece to the back end of all three Neo batteries. I used the same Velcro to attach the light so it faces down and slightly forward. Altogether this assembly weighs 9 grams and mounting it on the Neo's tail does not interfere with takeoff/landing or GPS.

DJI asked me to open a service request, I sent the drone in a few week ago. DJI updated and said there was a gimble problem on their service notes.  The drone is due back tomorrow, I have a feeling the same uncontrollable issues will still be there.  I think they are just stalling for time..  i must say DJI's service and service communication are outstanding !!!

Fatdog Posted at 11-4 05:27
After three test flights yesterday, I believe I have solved this--at least partially. Two flights with the G3/MC3 and one with the RC2. One was a lengthy flight in a crawl space that's so dark I have to tweak the video in order to see anything. But I'm tentatively declaring victory--no crashes! The reason I say it's a "partial" solution is that I still get the "position sensing failed ... fly with caution" warnings on the RC2, but it no longer accelerates headlong into the nearest hard thing.

I already had a very lightweight strobe   https://a.co/d/hxsTVLl   which has a continuous ON mode. It's quite small and weighs ~6g. I 3D printed a tiny 90º "angle" (basically an L-shape) and used small pieces of "Extreme Outdoor" Velcro to attach the angle piece to the back end of all three Neo batteries. I used the same Velcro to attach the light so it faces down and slightly forward. Altogether this assembly weighs 9 grams and mounting it on the Neo's tail does not interfere with takeoff/landing or GPS.

Are you locking onto satellites indoors?  If so, how many?  

Congrats - great to hear that you were lucky in this dark area! I've also tested some additional lights, which a user here in one of our German forums has recommended and which he also used (2 of them) underneath of his AVATA 2. The LED-light comes from STARTRC. We also fixed it with velvro underneath the batt, but as much forward as possible and it shines straight down to the ground. But the reault was not as good as yours - I still had uncontrollable acceleration and then crashing with the light mounted, even in areas where it was better lit then in your crawl space. At the AVATA I could see a clear difference - with the lights mounted the "message - too dark" still appears, but the AVATA didn't go from N to Atti-mode.

OldGuy2024 Posted at 11-4 07:18
Are you locking onto satellites indoors?  If so, how many?

I typically get less than 10 satellites indoors. It will sometimes update the home point and then lose GPS positioning during flight. My normal use case is to take off outdoors with GPS and then fly into a confined space with the Neo or Avata 2 (depending on how tight and risky). This same bracket & light works on the Avata 2. I have the OriginalDobo forward-facing light mount for the A2 but with the added down light, I think now I have the confidence to fly it in darkness. I'll do more testing indoors at night with all the house lights off before flying in a space where retrieval might be difficult or impossible.

UPDATE:

After success with the downlight apparently eliminating SPAZ-mode crashes, I wanted to try emulating the flashlight mount for Avata 2 (by OriginalDobo). I 3D printed a simple bracket that clips to the prop guards to mount the same Rovyvon A1 light (the Avata 2 uses these in pairs). It doesn't give a wide illuminated field of view but for my needs inspecting and viewing specific elements in low light, it's pretty effective.

During this indoor flight I only picked up 2 satellites. RC2 warning me "Attitude mode .. fly with caution" but no loss of control throughout. BTW, drone weighs 164g with both lights mounted.

OldGuy2024 Posted at 10-31 10:09
From post #45, " It is not a low light or GPS condition since the RC-N3 controller had no issues. It is likely a firmware issue with the Neo/G3/MC3 combo."  Firmware issue could be a contributing factor.  Someone on another thread put black tape over the downward sensors. Took off and the Neo went into the uncontrollable mode. Anyone willing to test to see if the camera lens visual sensor if it even is part of the system is a part of the issue?  Cover and try a LOS flight in a bright environment over a highly textured surface.  Not for me, but maybe time for another Drone Wilder Neo video?

Issue also with the FPV RC3. Others have noted same fly away issue with the RC-N3. Ambient indoor light level is difficult to accurately measure by eyeballs alone.  Basically what one perceives as low or well lighted may not be so.  Not an  auto switch to ATTI mode. ATTI mode you still have stick input and have the chance of regaining control.  Given the large number of posts in a significant number of threads about this issue. Nothing really from DJI.  Guessing not a problem that can be simply fixed or fixed at all.  Days like today are days I had planned to use the Neo indoors.  Cold, wet, and windy outdoors. I guess a Sim session to get my fpv fix.

Just an opinion, but my hunch is that the FPV RC3 controller has the same issue when in Normal or Sport modes, but the issue should not affect true Manual mode as the pilot has full control and the drone should deactivate its position sensing system.

Unfortunately, I've tried it even with extremely conservative rates and I'm just not skilled enough for manual mode ... yet.

I agree - I never had a this 'uncontrollable bug' in M-mode. I only crashed when my skills (also using most conservative rates possible)  were not good enough for M-mode. I like to fly with the NEO in tight spaces and will probably need a lot more training with the NEO in M-mode for that. With the AVATA its quite easy to do that in N-mode, but she's too big for some of the places. So again  - DJI hurry up and let us get rid of this mess!

@Fatdog
Could you please upload the stl-file for the clip to thingiverse? I would also like to test it with a light on top of the NEO .

JMHO, Neo is too little in mass and power to handle additional mass without compromising performance (speed, agility, and flight times).  Stability modes (N & S) do limit those elements with the exception of flight times. Added mass would reduce flight times.  Have to remember the DJI benchmark flight times are reduced 1 minute by the top removable propeller guards. They weigh ~4.5gm.

If DJI is unable to or unwilling to fix this issue we are stuck with either flying M mode or diy bandaid.  If that is the case might need to tune the rates and gains to an extreme mellow and engage the ATTI toggle for indoors manual flying and crashing.  At least the Neo will not self land when flying too slow under the coffee and dining room  table.  

ralf-djiforum Posted at 11-4 22:52
I agree - I never had a this 'uncontrollable bug' in M-mode. I only crashed when my skills (also using most conservative rates possible)  were not good enough for M-mode. I like to fly with the NEO in tight spaces and will probably need a lot more training with the NEO in M-mode for that. With the AVATA its quite easy to do that in N-mode, but she's too big for some of the places. So again  - DJI hurry up and let us get rid of this mess!

@Fatdog

[Message deleted]

ralf-djiforum Posted at 11-4 22:52
I agree - I never had a this 'uncontrollable bug' in M-mode. I only crashed when my skills (also using most conservative rates possible)  were not good enough for M-mode. I like to fly with the NEO in tight spaces and will probably need a lot more training with the NEO in M-mode for that. With the AVATA its quite easy to do that in N-mode, but she's too big for some of the places. So again  - DJI hurry up and let us get rid of this mess!

@Fatdog

Uploaded STL file to Printables.

Great! TX!

ralf-djiforum Posted at 11-5 08:36
Great! TX!

You're welcome. Let me know how it works out for you.

I've just printed it and will see whether I can fit the rectangular STARTRC LED with velcro to it. If this doesn't work, I will modify the upper part with a just a small vertical plate to fix the velcro.

ralf-djiforum Posted at 11-5 10:06
I've just printed it and will see whether I can fit the rectangular STARTRC LED with velcro to it. If this doesn't work, I will modify the upper part with a just a small vertical plate to fix the velcro.

The mount that I uploaded is for a flashlight, not the downward facing strobe. I can also upload the strobe mount but it's a very simple part--just an L-shape.

Flashlight is https://amzn.eu/d/4zy4wkO

ralf-djiforum Posted at 11-5 10:06
I've just printed it and will see whether I can fit the rectangular STARTRC LED with velcro to it. If this doesn't work, I will modify the upper part with a just a small vertical plate to fix the velcro.

I've uploaded the strobe mount also but it's such a simple part, I'm sure you could easily work it out.

OldGuy2024 Posted at 11-5 06:41
JMHO, Neo is too little in mass and power to handle additional mass without compromising performance (speed, agility, and flight times).  Stability modes (N & S) do limit those elements with the exception of flight times. Added mass would reduce flight times.  Have to remember the DJI benchmark flight times are reduced 1 minute by the top removable propeller guards. They weigh ~4.5gm.

If DJI is unable to or unwilling to fix this issue we are stuck with either flying M mode or diy bandaid.  If that is the case might need to tune the rates and gains to an extreme mellow and engage the ATTI toggle for indoors manual flying and crashing.  At least the Neo will not self land when flying too slow under the coffee and dining room  table.

@Oldguy2024

I agree with you, to a point. Remember that my mounting of these lights is for a specific use case: low light, confined spaces. My flying style in this scenario is decidedly slow and controlled, the opposite of ACRO. Furthermore, my attachments are very light and closer to the center of mass than other mounts I've seen used successfully on a Neo, like the Insta360 Go camera used during some pretty aggressive flying. Battery life also not an issue since I have three of them and other drones.
As always with DIY stuff like this: your results may vary and use your own good judgement.

TX for your uploads! I was able to stick some velcro to the opening for the flashlight and so fix my LED to your mount. Will do some test flights, probably at the weekend. The strobe mount wouldn't have been necessary to upload - it is really quite simple (something I also would be able construct by using the only 3d programm I'm capable of: Tinkercad :-) ). But I have mounted my LED with velcro directly to the bottom of the batt, so that it is closer to the center of gravity.

Fatdog Posted at 11-5 14:37
@Oldguy2024

I agree with you, to a point. Remember that my mounting of these lights is for a specific use case: low light, confined spaces. My flying style in this scenario is decidedly slow and controlled, the opposite of ACRO. Furthermore, my attachments are very light and closer to the center of mass than other mounts I've seen used successfully on a Neo, like the Insta360 Go camera used during some pretty aggressive flying. Battery life also not an issue since I have three of them and other drones.

Right now your diy fix might be the only way to safely fly the Neo under your specific conditions.  Guessing if DJI is unable to correct this lower light  limitation many will need to copy your fix.

Indoors flying inside my house is slow speed in tight close proximity to too many obstacles. Why Manual mode is more crash mode and if flying  N or S mode sometimes the Neo engages auto landing.  Might need to rig up a light or just purchase another non-DJI ELRS/EdgeTx brushless 1 or 2s powered mini quad for indoors flying. I lost my original indoors mini flying it outdoors. Why I purchased the Neo. A replacement.  Only to be disappointed for using the Neo indoors.  Luckily it is a decent calm to gentle breeze (F3) flyer in S mode.  My M mode poor skills in F3 winds requires a bit of effort for steady flight paths.  But still fun.

Yes, I can confirm this and following my tests the problem is definetly with the MC3 when in normal mode.

I tested the same light conditions indoors with the RC N-3, with this controller the reaction is normal (as expected):
At the the same situation where I loose control with the Goggles, the DJI Fly App warns as well: "Insufficient light, Altitude Mode, Fly with Caution".
In "Altitude mode" the positioning is no longer perfect, the drone may drift a bit, but I still have full control to compensate these drifts, so it is no problem.
It also does not accelerate suddenly. There is time to land or even to navigate back to an area with better light.
I would expect the same behaviour also with the Goggles and Motion Controller, without camera positioning the drones could be less stable, OK, but I should still be able to compensate drifts with the controller. If this is not possible because of the different technology, in case of the alarm I would still prefer to freeze all controls or just land.
But accelerating is the worst possible option possible. This does absolutely feel like a failure, not the situation described in the manual.

See my full post here: [New reminder]DJI Neo looses control at low light with Goggles 3 | DJI FORUM  Unfortunately I posted it by mistake in the wrong section...

OldGuy2024 Posted at 11-6 07:38
Right now your diy fix might be the only way to safely fly the Neo under your specific conditions.  Guessing if DJI is unable to correct this lower light  limitation many will need to copy your fix.

Indoors flying inside my house is slow speed in tight close proximity to too many obstacles. Why Manual mode is more crash mode and if flying  N or S mode sometimes the Neo engages auto landing.  Might need to rig up a light or just purchase another non-DJI ELRS/EdgeTx brushless 1 or 2s powered mini quad for indoors flying. I lost my original indoors mini flying it outdoors. Why I purchased the Neo. A replacement.  Only to be disappointed for using the Neo indoors.  Luckily it is a decent calm to gentle breeze (F3) flyer in S mode.  My M mode poor skills in F3 winds requires a bit of effort for steady flight paths.  But still fun.

Have you checked whether this 'auto landing' is a question of your height above ground? When flying in N- or S-mode and going below 0,30m NEO start auto landing. Would like to get rid of this in these modes (not only in M), because flying extremely low undeneath tables or chairs at the moment so is not possible.

I just did a quick test with the new fw update and the RC2 and had no crashes - hoping for the best!

ralf-djiforum Posted at 11-6 08:51
Have you checked whether this 'auto landing' is a question of your height above ground? When flying in N- or S-mode and going below 0,30m NEO start auto landing. Would like to get rid of this in these modes (not only in M), because flying extremely low undeneath tables or chairs at the moment so is not possible.

I just did a quick test with the new fw update and the RC2 and had no crashes - hoping for the best!

Yes, it is due to reaching the altitude threshold where auto landing engages. Indoors if speed over ground drops below a threshold and flying below 0.3meters the auto landing engages if flying N or S modes.  Stop to hover to avoid collisions at too low an altitude. End up going into auto landing.


At least with the FPV RC3  with a  quick  bump the throttle up the auto landing can be cancel.  
Not sure if normal or another quirk.  The Neo flown has at least couple. No manual motor shut down in N or S mode by moving the sticks down and in. No emergency manual motor shut down even with the toggle under Advance Safety engaged.  And discovered it switches automatically from Manual mode to N mode if the distance/altitude is "too far" even though flying below the 120 meter altitude limit and setting maximum distance to no limit.

Have done 2 indoor test flights with the latest firmware updates. Neo, N mode, MC3 and Googles 3 No GPS lock (1-2 satellites) No uncontrollable flyaways! Flew in the same light conditions and path where previously the drone had accelerated uncontrollably into the wall. I now consider this safe to use indoors and around other people.

Just need DJI to make the Neo, Googles 3 and RC2 compatible, same as the Mini 4 Pro. Make no sense to me that it's not and the fact that I have to change the RC 2 firmware each time I change from the Neo to the Mini 4 pro

Good to hear. I will also do more tests during weekend and hopefully the issue is fixed now!
What do you mean by Goggles 3 and RC 2 compatible? The NEO is RC2 compatible - or do you want to use the RC2 and the Goggles 3 at the same time?

ralf-djiforum Posted at 11-7 00:20
Good to hear. I will also do more tests during weekend and hopefully the issue is fixed now!
What do you mean by Goggles 3 and RC 2 compatible? The NEO is RC2 compatible - or do you want to use the RC2 and the Goggles 3 at the same time?

Yes with the Googles 3

Why? Can you with the Mini 4 really use goggles 3 and RC2 at the same time? Both are RC-commanders which give sending signals to the drone - how does this work? With Goggles 3 you refer to the Goggels which  are sold together with the Avata 2 as a combo, don't you?

ralf-djiforum Posted at 11-6 02:30
TX for your uploads! I was able to stick some velcro to the opening for the flashlight and so fix my LED to your mount. Will do some test flights, probably at the weekend. The strobe mount wouldn't have been necessary to upload - it is really quite simple (something I also would be able construct by using the only 3d programm I'm capable of: Tinkercad :-) ). But I have mounted my LED with velcro directly to the bottom of the batt, so that it is closer to the center of gravity.

Ralf, I like your approach as I thiink this will give a wider illuminated field-of-view for the camera. I'm going to investigate other lightweight light options.

fans04099d0a Posted at 11-6 16:20
Have done 2 indoor test flights with the latest firmware updates. Neo, N mode, MC3 and Googles 3 No GPS lock (1-2 satellites) No uncontrollable flyaways! Flew in the same light conditions and path where previously the drone had accelerated uncontrollably into the wall. I now consider this safe to use indoors and around other people.

Just need DJI to make the Neo, Googles 3 and RC2 compatible, same as the Mini 4 Pro. Make no sense to me that it's not and the fact that I have to change the RC 2 firmware each time I change from the Neo to the Mini 4 pro

Good News!  Hopefully problem also corrected in the Northern Hemisphere. Too windy to fly outdoors today.  Also, the colder air is getting a bit uncomfortable on the fingers.  Have another excuse for crashing when in Manual Mode.  Will update firmware and test fly using the FPV RC3 and MC3.

Fatdog Posted at 11-7 06:59
Ralf, I like your approach as I thiink this will give a wider illuminated field-of-view for the camera. I'm going to investigate other lightweight light options.

TX for your praise,  but the idea with the lights wasn't born in my mind :-) Congrats should be given to a user in a German forum. He has first used these lights at this AVATA2 and then decided to use them also at the NEO, trying to get rid of the 'uncontrollable bug'. I hadn't expected that the NEO would behave so well with the additional weight.

ralf-djiforum Posted at 11-7 08:05
TX for your praise,  but the idea with the lights wasn't born in my mind :-) Congrats should be given to a user in a German forum. He has first used these lights at this AVATA2 and then decided to use them also at the NEO, trying to get rid of the 'uncontrollable bug'. I hadn't expected that the NEO would behave so well with the additional weight.

Well then, praise for your friend in another forum! Please let him know that his idea and our conversation here formed the seed for this latest setup. With both lights attached,  a total of just 18g added to the drone.
Update 1: I'm disappointed to report that this little light does not sufficiently illuminate the area in front of the camera unless it's within a meter or two. I did not have runaway crashes, but it announced ATTITUDE MODE landed on its own several times. I'll see if I can obtain a better light. For now, the A1 flashlight is allowing me to fly in darker, indoor spaces.

Update 2: Previous flight (Update 1) was based on a dark area flight using DJY Fly app on iPad. Second flight with same light setup (Vifly forward and down lights) but using RC2 controller seemed to work much better. I still received ATTI warnings but was able to maintain flight control throughout. Both flights were in a room darkened to maximum by blackout window shades.

I was wrong in assuming that the lighting and not the controller would be the only difference--forgetting that responsible (controlled) experimentation requires the manipulation of a single variable. I've no idea why the different controllers had different results, but the "mobile device" wifi mode is so limited compared to the O4 units, I never intended to use it in real life anyway. The point is: I made a mistake using the iPad and won't do it again.

Bottom line: This configuration worked for me with the RC2 even with the minamalist Vifly lights. (Your results may vary.)

https://www.printables.com/model/1065573-dji-neo-light-mount

I've asked that somebody else before - could it be, that your unexpected landings were caused by too low flying? Don't know, whether this also is active in Atti-mode when it comes out of N-mode, but below 30cm auto-landing is activated.
I will Gerd let know about your development!

ralf-djiforum Posted at 11-7 10:26
I've asked that somebody else before - could it be, that your unexpected landings were caused by too low flying? Don't know, whether this also is active in Atti-mode when it comes out of N-mode, but below 30cm auto-landing is activated.
I will Gerd let know about your development!

The Neo is known to auto-land when it thinks that's your intent, i.e. flying slowly and close to a surface below it thinks might be your hand. I once had it land on an air conditioning compressor unit that I had no way to access for retrieving the drone. Fortunately, it landed upright and I was able to take off again. The key is to fly with enough lateral velocity (forward/back/left/right) whilst close to objects below the drone. This is obviously a quirk of having a drone that's trying to be good at everything for everybody.

Once I decoded that auto-land behavior, realizing that my own hesitance to fly with any speed through a tight space was the cause, I then flew several times over the same equipment--sometimes within centimeters--and never had the Neo try to land itself again.
Also, please offer Gerd my regards!

Good to hear - i will try that. I always was very slow when it started to auto-land. Will use more speed then :-)

ralf-djiforum Posted at 11-7 03:18
Why? Can you with the Mini 4 really use goggles 3 and RC2 at the same time? Both are RC-commanders which give sending signals to the drone - how does this work? With Goggles 3 you refer to the Goggels which  are sold together with the Avata 2 as a combo, don't you?

Why, because I'm used to flying drones with sticks and goggles.
Yes this combo works with the mini 4 pro and others - example video here -
Goggle 3 are sold as a standalone product. There's absolutely no reason for this combo not working with the Neo. I was forced to buy another controller, in my case the MC3, which works ok, but after around 10 years of flying drones using sticks it's not natural for me

Never tried this combination with the Goggles 3. When I want to fly my Mini 4 with FPV and RC2, I use my Rokid Max glasses and connect them by cable with the RC2 - works pretty good. Sould also work with the NEO. And (for me) the Rokid glasses are fantastic - if you don't use the cover it even allows you to see your surrounding  (and you can set different levels of 'shine through')

Fatdog Posted at 11-7 11:14
The Neo is known to auto-land when it thinks that's your intent, i.e. flying slowly and close to a surface below it thinks might be your hand. I once had it land on an air conditioning compressor unit that I had no way to access for retrieving the drone. Fortunately, it landed upright and I was able to take off again. The key is to fly with enough lateral velocity (forward/back/left/right) whilst close to objects below the drone. This is obviously a quirk of having a drone that's trying to be good at everything for everybody.

Once I decoded that auto-land behavior, realizing that my own hesitance to fly with any speed through a tight space was the cause, I then flew several times over the same equipment--sometimes within centimeters--and never had the Neo try to land itself again.

Also., don't want Neo to raise when your are close above an object, a tree or ground?
Mine like to raise when i was close. But up there was also a branch So not a good idea.