I’m contemplating getting my first drone (would be a Mini 3, standard battery, keeping under 249g), but I have some obstacles that potentially kill any kind of fun I might have, so I’m interested in hearing from others who experience these obstacles  on a regular basis, and how much of an impact it actually has for you in real life. I understand that situations differ, and I’m not looking for legal or binding advice, just trying to get a sense of how difficult things are likely to be for me. I'm in Newfoundland, Canada if it makes a difference.

So the first one is that I live just about 1 minute from the local international airport, and my house is literally in a Restricted Area. That obviously means that I’m going to have to learn how to fly this thing, without the safety net of home being right there. This might be a silly question, but does this restriction still apply if I'm inside my home?  Presumably the device uses GPS along with DJI data to determine no fly areas, and I have no reason to suspect that I wouldn't be able to get a GPS signal in my house, but I don't know for sure.  

Most of the places that I’d like to fly in the local area are within an Authorization Zone, which from what I can tell means I have to plan to go out and I have to get authorization when I’m there. I realize I can set this up mostly from home, but there’s still the final stage that is going to have to wait until I’m actually there. So, how reliable is this?  Am I ever going to get to my destination and not be able to get authorization, because I can’t get a signal of some description?  What does it need? Presumably cell reception and reliable GPS? Does that service ever go down, and leave you unable to self-authorize?

I’ve seen a video on YouTube about getting authorization to fly inside a Restricted Zone, and note that this may be where the airports restriction is different to DJI’s interpretation. Assuming that my house is not in a risky area (it’s not on the direct flight path for any of the three runways, but the airport does see a fair bit of helicopter activity that might have an impact - they certainly go over my house from time to time). Anyway, assuming this isn’t an issue, would an airport be fairly likely to grant me access without me needing to get a license, or would they be pretty much guaranteed to turn me down without one?

The other main issue for me is wind. Level 5 wind resistance is not very much >30km/h winds are pretty common here. Does this mean that there’s no point in even going out the front door if the winds are above this, or would you say that if you want to just go play, and keep at a low altitude, you’re likely to still have a fun time as long as it isn’t crazy windy out?

Sorry if these are silly questions. I've never flown a drone before, and don't know anyone who has one.

You have a lot of good questions here, and perhaps the best person to answer them would be a person that fly often in that kind of enviroment (restricted area). I can offer my opinion on the question about flying on very windy days...

On very windy days, anything that fly, from birds to humans in aircraft, will not enjoy the experience... The smaller the bird (drone) the higher the challenge... But, again, you will only find out the limitation/capabilities of your drone once you are in the air... What's written on paper it is more of a guideline... It doesn't really mean much until you try in your flying area and see for yourself...

You may find out that you actually enjoy the extra challenge...

Burt37 Posted at 10-7 13:53
You have a lot of good questions here, and perhaps the best person to answer them would be a person that fly often in that kind of enviroment (restricted area). I can offer my opinion on the question about flying on very windy days...

On very windy days, anything that fly, from birds to humans in aircraft, will not enjoy the experience... The smaller the bird (drone) the higher the challenge... But, again, you will only find out the limitation/capabilities of your drone once you are in the air... What's written on paper it is more of a guideline... It doesn't really mean much until you try in your flying area and see for yourself...

Thanks for the response. I imagine my poor old brain will have enough trouble without the extra "challenge".

Level 5 wind resistance is not very much >30km/h winds are pretty common here. Does this mean that there’s no point in even going out the front door if the winds are above this, or would you say that if you want to just go play

In DJI specs "wind resistance" is completely meaningless.
Far better to consider how fast the drone can fly (in still air) to understand how it would be affected by winds.
The Mini 3 can fly at 16 m/s.

The potential issues of flying in wind are more complex than simply looking at two numbers.
You aren't always going to fly directly into or with the wind.
The direction of the wind relative to your intended flight and return are also important factors.

Question and just checking, do you mean you are literally considering the mini 3 model or is "mini 3" ,an abbreviation for "mini 3 pro" ?

With regards to indoor flying, depending on the construction of your house it is by no means certain that the drone will get sufficient GPS to know where it is. I never get sufficient GPS inside my house.
If the drone doesn't know where it is it can't know it is inside a restriction zone and therefore could, in theory, fly inside your house.
I presume it would be legal to do so providing the drone can not escape from the house I.e. it is surrounded by walls, windows, doors and a roof that would prevent its escape.

Not many people will recommend indoor flying for a newbie but I differ somewhat, I fly indoors a lot, though not with a mini 3 of any sort, I started doing this as a newbie.
Make no mistake it carries its own set of risks that are not normally applicable to out door flying with good gps.

One thing to note here regarding self authorization.

Unlocking an authorisation zone in the DJI Fly app does not actually legally give you permission to fly in that zone.

The unlocking process in the app is a way of telling the app that you have received authorisation outside of the app from the authority that is legally entitled to give you that authorisation.

ie you contact the authority outside of the app, request authorisation to fly in that area (including when you plan to fly). If they then give you that authorisation you go to the app and self unlock the zone.

It's a common misconception that unlocking in the DJI Fly app gives you authorisation - it doesn't.

Sean-bumble-bee Posted at 10-7 18:34
Question and just checking, do you mean you are literally considering the mini 3 model or is "mini 3" ,an abbreviation for "mini 3 pro" ?

With regards to indoor flying, depending on the construction of your house it is by no means certain that the drone will get sufficient GPS to know where it is. I never get sufficient GPS inside my house.

I mean, literally the mini 3.  The mini 3 pro is no longer available, and the mini 4 pro ($1280CAD) is more than twice the price here.  The mini 3 ($600CAD) is a good price to entry. If the cost of the mini 4 pro plummets when the mini 5 pro is launched, I might go with a mini 4 pro, but right now, the mini 3 is the right price.


  
Thanks for your answer on flying indoors.

No Original Thought Posted at 10-7 23:36
One thing to note here regarding self authorization.

Unlocking an authorisation zone in the DJI Fly app does not actually legally give you permission to fly in that zone.

According to the Government of Canada's web site, no authorization is required for drones under 250g. Their rules on microdrones are pretty non-specific (they have guidelines, but say that rules that apply to drones over 250g do not apply to microdrones), and the map indicates the same, although it is quite ambiguous.

They say:-

Pilots of micro drones don’t need to register their drone or get a drone pilot certificate to fly them. Pilots of micro drones are not bound by the same requirements as other drones. However, you must not operate your drone in a reckless or negligent manner as to endanger or be likely to endanger aviation safety or the safety of anyone.

While there are no prescriptive elements of the regulations, there is an expectation that the pilot of a micro drone to use good judgment, identify potential hazards, and take all necessary steps to avoid any risks associated with flying your drone.

So, according to their web site, all I am dealing with is DJI classification of the area. I still can't fly a drone on my own property, without specific authorization from the airport (or possibly from NAV Canada) since DJI zone's my property as being in a Restricted Area, but a couple of streets over, I go into an Authorization Zone, and that's where the housing developments stop and the fun begins.

709rich Posted at 10-8 02:44
I mean, literally the mini 3.  The mini 3 pro is no longer available, and the mini 4 pro ($1280CAD) is more than twice the price here.  The mini 3 ($600CAD) is a good price to entry. If the cost of the mini 4 pro plummets when the mini 5 pro is launched, I might go with a mini 4 pro, but right now, the mini 3 is the right price.

OK.
Do you want to read my thoughts on indoor flying ? Yes/no.
If so, do you want them via this thread or PM ?

Opining:
If you haven't flown a drone before, buy a cheapo drone and practise in a park. Learning with a $600 drone (in your house ?!) seems foolish to me, though getting the optional propguards might help.

...the first hurdle might be: If you plan to use your phone or tablet, before you buy a DJI drone, download the app for your phone or tablet from the DJI website and see if it starts up. It won't run on older hardware. You might need to either buy the RC with a screen or a new device for the non-screen controller.

Don't fly near airports with ANY drone. Go further. Looking for crannies in the regulations is not a good place to start.
THIS is the map you want:
https://nrc.canada.ca/en/drone-tool/
Fires and public events and some parks are also nofly zones
Windy? stay lower- wind increases higher up.

Sean-bumble-bee Posted at 10-8 05:34
OK.
Do you want to read my thoughts on indoor flying ? Yes/no.
If so, do you want them via this thread or PM ?

Sure you can put them in this thread.  I'm starting to think its probably not a good idea anyway from a practice standpoint, because there's just not the room, but from a testing perspective, for example if I had to replace a prop blade or two, it would be good to be able to just check that its okay before heading out, but i don't even know if this will be possible in view of where I live.

709rich Posted at 10-8 07:44
Sure you can put them in this thread.  I'm starting to think its probably not a good idea anyway from a practice standpoint, because there's just not the room, but from a testing perspective, for example if I had to replace a prop blade or two, it would be good to be able to just check that its okay before heading out, but i don't even know if this will be possible in view of where I live.

Ok, I will post them in a while

709rich Posted at 10-8 02:59
According to the Government of Canada's web site, no authorization is required for drones under 250g. Their rules on microdrones are pretty non-specific (they have guidelines, but say that rules that apply to drones over 250g do not apply to microdrones), and the map indicates the same, although it is quite ambiguous.

They say:-

Hmmmm. That seems pretty odd to me.

In the UK sub 250g drones have a lot of freedom but you can't fly over, for example, prisons or ministry of defence sites.

While you don't need a license, I'd be surprised if you were allowed to fly in restricted airspace without authorisation.

I'm sure there are Canada flyers on here who will know the ins and outs, though.

No Original Thought Posted at 10-8 07:55
In the UK sub 250g drones have a lot of freedom but you can't fly over, for example, prisons or ministry of defence sites.

Lol for some reason images of Mr MacKay and Battery Sergeant Major Williams just popped in to my mind.  Eeeek.

Sean-bumble-bee Posted at 10-8 08:10
Lol for some reason images of Mr MacKay and Battery Sergeant Major Williams just popped in to my mind.  Eeeek.

Drones are bad, m'kaaay!

No Original Thought Posted at 10-8 07:55
Hmmmm. That seems pretty odd to me.

In the UK sub 250g drones have a lot of freedom but you can't fly over, for example, prisons or ministry of defence sites.

honestly if youre flying a mini drone people dont even notice it or dont care. I was flying in a park once maybe 10 metres above someone w earbuds in, didnt notice a thing. when i fly 30m above generally no one cares.

Flying a drone is fun, but it comes with risks and stress )
Indoors, if the drone can determine its location in the restricted area via GPS, it will not allow the motors to start. If GPS is not available, you will be able to take off. For indoor flights, I strongly recommend installing propeller guards, this will save your drone and furniture. But do not fly with guards outside, especially in windy weather! This is a big sail and the wind will blow the drone away.

There is no point in buying another drone for training, it is just a waste of money. Just go out of town away from restricted areas to an open place and train.

No Original Thought Posted at 10-8 09:21
Drones are bad, m'kaaay!

Antdrones Posted at 10-8 09:44
honestly if youre flying a mini drone people dont even notice it or dont care. I was flying in a park once maybe 10 metres above someone w earbuds in, didnt notice a thing. when i fly 30m above generally no one cares.

That might be the case, but it doesn't make it legal.

Flight restriction zones are there for a reason. If Canada is very relaxed about drone flying in general, as the OP suggests, then that would imply that if there are restricted areas then they are more than likely there for very good reasons!

The man in the park might not notice, but the security guy at the prison might, and if he does you'd better have a good reason and valid authorisation for over-flying.

This might be a silly question, but does this restriction still apply if I'm inside my home?

You might be able to fly in your home as it quite likely won't be able to get any sat signals saying where you are, so will say fly with caution.

But here's a tip, do not fly in your home unless you are experienced and competent with the drone, and even then I wouldn't do it.

In short you'll crash it and probably damage it.

nazgull Posted at 10-8 06:28
Opining:
If you haven't flown a drone before, buy a cheapo drone and practise in a park. Learning with a $600 drone (in your house ?!) seems foolish to me, though getting the optional propguards might help.

The $600 was including the RC.  I'm not interested in using my phone (or a tablet) as a controller.

I'm not trying to find loopholes or circumvent the regulations, but at the same time, I'm not looking to invent regulations that make it more frustrating than it needs to be.  The thing is... if I need to drive 25km just to take off, the thing is just going to stay stored forever, and I might as well not bother even buying one. I have a medium threshold for frustration (managed to get this far on this forum, so must have some tolerance, LOL!), but when the barrier to entry becomes too much, the enjoyment just gets beaten down out of existence.
Here's the DJI map... blue arrow points to a little blue dot - that's where I live. Unquestionably in the red here, and not expecting to be able to fly here. I have no problem with this, even though its a bit disappointing. You might just about be able to make out where the two main runways and the smaller third runway (which I've never seen used) are.


Here's the NAV Canada map for roughly the same area, for drones under 250g.




As you can see... nothing is red.  The flight path is yellow, which means fly with caution for air traffic.

I was unsure about this because of the red surround to the perimeter... so I went to the "basic" drone map, which shows this...



So for drones over 250g, the whole area is red. This would appear to confirm that the area for under 250g drones in the second map, does indeed mean its yellow, which is "fly with caution". I'm fine with the DJI map, where I cannot fly at my own home, but where I don't have to go far to be able to fly. I can hop on my bike, go up the bike path behind my house up to the lake (Winsor Lake - to the left of me on these maps), or below where my house is on thse maps (where the text says Airport Heights) which is forest and quarry-like territory. The DJI map shows these in the blue zone (self-authorization), and the NAV Canada map shows me totally in the clear.

There are of course other areas I want to explore, but these would be the places I would want to go while learning the basics of how to fly.  Near to home, clear path way, no people and out of the red.

Sorry about that post above. I can't see any way to delete it. The images that I had added are not appearing. I give up with this forum. I'll go find somewhere else.

709rich Posted at 10-8 15:12
Sorry about that post above. I can't see any way to delete it. The images that I had added are not appearing. I give up with this forum. I'll go find somewhere else.

You can't delete posts, it's one of the many flaws in this forum, you can however edit it
and delete its contents but there must be 10 or more character in whatever you use to replace it.

709rich Posted at 10-8 15:12
Sorry about that post above. I can't see any way to delete it. The images that I had added are not appearing. I give up with this forum. I'll go find somewhere else.

You are not alone on both your statements... The forum is bad, but I wish you wouldn't give up..

I, like you, don't want to drive 25km, just to play with the drone..

I can also confirm to you that the Fly safe data it is not accurate at all.. Sometimes it pays to try to see if there is a real limitation in that particular area...

709rich Posted at 10-8 15:12
Sorry about that post above. I can't see any way to delete it. The images that I had added are not appearing. I give up with this forum. I'll go find somewhere else.

If this forum is no longer to your taste then try

https://mavicpilots.com/

It might be worth joining that even if you choose to remain here.

No Original Thought Posted at 10-8 11:36
That might be the case, but it doesn't make it legal.

Flight restriction zones are there for a reason. If Canada is very relaxed about drone flying in general, as the OP suggests, then that would imply that if there are restricted areas then they are more than likely there for very good reasons!

im not trying to justify flying illegaly, im just saying in canada generally people are chill about it, but obviously i wouldnt tell people to go break the law and fly over private property and stuff.

709rich Posted at 10-8 07:44
Sure you can put them in this thread.  I'm starting to think its probably not a good idea anyway from a practice standpoint, because there's just not the room, but from a testing perspective, for example if I had to replace a prop blade or two, it would be good to be able to just check that its okay before heading out, but i don't even know if this will be possible in view of where I live.

It took a bit of time to type but here goes
.
1)Assuming that in indoor flying the drone will have little to no GPS then the drone will be relying on the VPS system for position holding and braking.
VPS has two requirements,
a) that the floor be well lit and
b) that the 'floor' be suitably 'marked'.
If the floor is NOT well lit then the drone will switch to ATTI. In ATTI mode the drone makes not attempt to hold position and it does not brake It will be blown about by any wind currents including those that it itself generates, it is up to you to counter such movements. Re not braking. If the elevator and/or the aileron are released the drone will level itself and continue to move in the original direction and with the original speed, until the speed is bled off by drag etc.. That takes time and the drone might cover a significant distance in that time, you may not have the distance to play with.
An inappropriately 'marked' 'floor' means that the VPS system may not see a suitable point to lock onto and use as a reference for position holding and braking.
By "floor" I mean any surface directly beneath the drone.
I have flown a mini 1 or 2 over a patterned duvet cover where the pattern consisted of a 'densely packed' repeating pattern,it is my observation that the drone drifted more over that duvet than it did elsewhere where the markings where more suitable. Monotone carpets  would not be a suitably-marked floor, as might be a monotone tiled-floor and naked floor boards etc.etc.etc.

2) Indoor flying, in small rooms, requires small movements of the elevator and aileron. I think that this is actually good training for all flights.
A drone moves horizontally by tilting in the appropriate direction, the speed of movement depends on the amount of tilt, the greater the tilt the faster the movement. Small displacememts of the elevator and aileron away from the neutral position result in low speed movements.
Additionally there is a feature that controls how the drone responds to a certain joystick position. DJI give it the name "EXP"
I expect EXP to be adjustable in/with the Mini 3.
A guess is that the option will be found in the advanced settings menu of either the "safety" menu or the "control" menu.
For predicability I recommend an EXP value of 0.5 for both the aileron and elevator. There is likely to be a graphical representation of stick-position against drone-response. An EXP setting of 0.5 produces a straight line graph in that graphical representation. It may be that aileron and elevator share a common adjustment, I don't remember.
Other EXP values introduce a region where joystick movements produce little change in response from the drone but this region is bounded by two regions where, at some point, a little stick movement will produce a VAST change in the drone's response i.e. in the context of this thread unpredictablility.

With the drone IN FLIGHT and in relation to climb commands, small movements of the throttle should be used, you likely do not have the vertical space to allow 'full ' throttle climbs.
DESCENTS DIFFER, when 'close' to the 'ground' the descent rate is governed by IR height sensor ( part and parcel of the "landing protection" mentioned in "6". This limits the descent rate when the drone is close to the ground, so I normally hold the throttle fully closed during descents.
BUT LAUNCHING DIFFERS with regards to the use of climb commands.
My recollection is that either the mini 3 pro or the mini 4 pro does not respond well/safely to tentative and partial throttle commands during launch. You need to get the drone up into the air and to a safe height as quickly as possible, therefore your joystick launch command should be a very rapid movement from neutral to full throttle followed by a short period of full throttle and, when the drone is at a safe height, the release of the throttle joystick. BUT do not SLAM the throttle to the stop, doing so might damage the joystick's gimbal.
At a guess my entire throttle burst,from netral throttle back to neutral thottle lasts less that 3/4 of a second. It normally results in the drone hovering 3 ft or so above the take off point.
One other point about launching, with the mini 1&2 the drone sits so low to the 'ground' that the drone's body puts the 'ground' beneath the drone into dark shadow. When I launch the drone there is a tendency for the drone to drift a bit, the average drift is perhaps 3ft but I might have seen around 5ft. Note I DO NOT remember an instance where this drift was TOWARDS me, I DO NOT KNOW the reason for that.
My guess is that the drift is due to the drone taking a bit of time to enable VPS and lock onto something.
I do note that once the drone has come to a stop it does tend to had back towards the take off point somewhat. I DO NOT KNOW if the mini 3 wil exhibit the same behaviour, so be warned.

3) Stay away from walls, floors and doors, it seems that there is a tendancy for the drone's down-draught to suck the drone towards the wall etc. With the Mini 1&2, 'close' is perhaps under 4". Contact with a wall etc, will most likely result in a crash.
Also stay away from the ceiling, if you get too close the drone will suck up to the ceiling. Ceiling contact has, that I remember yet to result in a crash. For the mini 1$2 is probably under 3".
Getting the drone to 'unstick' from the ceiling require a lot of descent command.

4) I think the VPS system is in general superb. I am of the opinion that it can detect and respond to flapping things that are within is field of view i.e the drone wobbles more when 'seeing' flapping things that it does when 'seeeing' stationary objects. So don't fly over or near things that will flap in the air currents that stem from the down-draught, it may unnerve you. Similarily ensure that things like light-weight, empty plastic bags are secured. I had one bring down a mavic 2. It got blown into the air and then circulated to above the props and was drawn into the props. CRASH.

5) Don't fly the drone over objects that it can blow over or move e.g. ornaments and framed photos etc..

6) Finally, I think, the drone contains a system'"Landing protection" that is designed to keep the drone at least 50cm above any object directly beneath it. If the drone is flown over an object that is within this range limit the the drone will automatically climb away from that object. In the wrong circumstances this could cause you problems.

709rich Posted at 10-8 15:12
Sorry about that post above. I can't see any way to delete it. The images that I had added are not appearing. I give up with this forum. I'll go find somewhere else.

that's ok. I see where you are in Nfld. It looks like you can fly with due care. In the DJIfly app you can set limits to height and distance and I think it'd be a good idea... Trouble is, DJI has their own ideas in their Flysafe database-many complaints here-and it may not allow you to take off

I'll try to attach a picture-It IS difficult for me too.

That wasn't easy. Might be it's optimized for a browser I haven't got. I'm leaving the bad one -I need to lie down now  

nazgull Posted at 10-9 08:35
That wasn't easy. Might be it's optimized for a browser I haven't got. I'm leaving the bad one -I need to lie down now

I love the way you guys interact with this forum

Ohcrap...myspacekeyjustbroke...

709rich Posted at 10-8 02:59
According to the Government of Canada's web site, no authorization is required for drones under 250g. Their rules on microdrones are pretty non-specific (they have guidelines, but say that rules that apply to drones over 250g do not apply to microdrones), and the map indicates the same, although it is quite ambiguous.

They say:-

To clear up confusion  (which can  exist when bits are taken out of context), Canadian law does not give free pass to sub-250 drones from aviation laws, such as flying above 400 feet or within restricted zones.

Within that same section and immediately below the above quoted piece here, it indicates to ALWAYS fly in a safe manner to avoid fines, in the part which specifically addresses  sub-250 drones.

While I agree, it has created confusion as people will often see a one part of the guideline and not consider  the whole of it (seems to be a common problem in all areas these days, not just drone regulations), the regulations that prohibit flying of ANY aircraft in airpaces such as within 3 nm of airports or 1nm of heli-port,  exist for a reason. In those examples the reason is because It’s the range where planes/helicopters are typically flying below 400 feet and ANYTHING flying  in those zones creates a danger to aircraft operating there. Outside these zones,  aircraft typically do not operate below 400 feet except in rare or special circumstances which is covered through  separate regulations such as forest fires, or concerts/events for example. Ignoring them can result in huge fines even if you are unaware that the law applies to sub-250 drones,  through misinterpretation of the guidelines. The gist of it is that a certain amount of risk always exists, but once that risk becomes excessive to life, it’s a no-go.

This is the important part: regardless if you’re sub-250 or not, ALL aircraft in Canada must fly according to the laws of the two categories of flight, ie basic or advanced operations, the TC guideline STARTS  with this requirement and if people will  notice, “sub-250” (or ANY weight category) is not even mentioned because those regulations apply to all aircraft regardless of weight.

I really wish TC would update the guidelines to eliminate these confusions rather than their current policy of having law enforcement or other agencies periodically reminding the public that these regulations apply to all. It is really needed to avoid misinterpretations.

aViewFarFarAway Posted at 10-14 09:00
To clear up confusion  (which can  exist when bits are taken out of context), Canadian law does not give free pass to sub-250 drones from aviation laws, such as flying above 400 feet or within restricted zones.

Within that same section and immediately below the above quoted piece here, it indicates to ALWAYS fly in a safe manner to avoid fines, in the part which specifically addresses  sub-250 drones.

The NAV Drone app seems very specific to help you stay within the regulations depending on what you're flying and where you are.