My Air3s arrived sooner than expected.

Tonight I will start some static comparison about video and photo quality respect to Mini4 pro.

Hallmark007 Posted at 11-10 11:38
Again there have been thousands of these drones sold and both here and you tube complaints about moire and aliasing are down to less than a handful with only one video posted and photos screenshot from the same source being used as an example . I have to say this is almost nothing if only some have problems with moire and aliasing then it would almost certainly be hardware problem because we are all on the same software..
With regards to the US many already commenting here have their drones but none complaining about moire and aliasing and no one on you tube complaining.

Extra Moire and Aliasing is made because of the extra f.ake sharpness applied to Air 3S....Also lower bitrate = less small details = more moire and aliasing on surfaces that have repetitive patterns.
Where you look for moire? On woods? ))))

On YT is diminished as is reconverted and lowered in quality.

Geo_Drone Posted at 11-11 07:24
Extra Moire and Aliasing is made because of the extra f.ake sharpness applied to Air 3S....Also lower bitrate = less small details = more moire and aliasing on surfaces that have repetitive patterns.
Where you look for moire? On woods? ))))

If that was the case and its not then every camera would be affected, in 6 weeks there has been one single video posted and from that video screen grabs over 400% have been posted, moire and aliasing is quite common on modern digital cameras its not a dji phenomenon in fact from time to time I find it myself on M3, Air2s and regularly on mini 3. But if it was there as you say then everyone would have it yet we only see both here and on you tube 1 single video and screen grabs from that.
You tube uploading can also cause this problem or similar. So far what you’re trying to prove is a nothing burger but let’s see if 10s or 100s of users are suffering and if they post.

Remember you were the one who said the pocket 3 was rubbish and would be recalled , so your credibility is pretty low on this as many are posting without problems which speaks volumes.
Moire can appear in both videos and photos its more about the patterns than where it appears, and its not difficult to remove in post.

Ok, first quick test done and for now I’m not even been able to make the auto-focus work decently (indoor low light).

After wasting a lot of time I managed to make it focus manually (still sub optimal) and I can confirm the initial impressions from other videos.

In 4k @60 fps the sensor tries to retain a bit more detail, but the final result is washed out and the overall picture is more pleasant on Mini4 pro (on this one I focused immediately with a single click as usual…).

Moreover, with the same ISO and white balance the images are much darker, not justified by the irrelevant difference in aperture. At least, the noise level is lower on the 3s…

I’ll spend more time in the next days, but I’m not so confident it can be saved.

In attach two crops from the recorded videos ( sharpness -2 and noise reduction 0 on both).

Hallmark007 Posted at 11-11 07:47
If that was the case and its not then every camera would be affected, in 6 weeks there has been one single video posted and from that video screen grabs over 400% have been posted, moire and aliasing is quite common on modern digital cameras its not a dji phenomenon in fact from time to time I find it myself on M3, Air2s and regularly on mini 3. But if it was there as you say then everyone would have it yet we only see both here and on you tube 1 single video and screen grabs from that.
You tube uploading can also cause this problem or similar. So far what you’re trying to prove is a nothing burger but let’s see if 10s or 100s of users are suffering and if they post.

I have doubts that you distinguish moire and aliasing, as you could not properly identify a DNG from drone and posted a nonsense with an enhanced Photoshop DNG as being RAW from Air 3S...
So....sorry David, you are probably the most unqualified person in this forum to express any idea related to this issues...no offense...

Geo_Drone Posted at 11-12 00:15
I have doubts that you distinguish moire and aliasing, as you could not properly identify a DNG from drone and posted a nonsense with an enhanced Photoshop DNG as being RAW from Air 3S...
So....sorry David, you are probably the most unqualified person in this forum to express any idea related to this issues...no offense...

How is you pocket 3 going for you only problem is the only one to spot it is you. Just like you were right about the pocket 3

Hallmark007 Posted at 11-12 00:51
How is you pocket 3 going for you only problem is the only one to spot it is you. Just like you were right about the pocket 3

Is this really your best comeback???  

Come on, let's push the envelope a bit further up...

Try to be original for once, in your miserable, pathetic little life...

Tell us what you really think about the Air 3S...

Burt37 Posted at 11-12 03:37
Is this really your best comeback???  

Come on, let's push the envelope a bit further up...

“It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt”

Hallmark007 Posted at 11-12 04:19
“It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt”

Yeah, that is what we said to you when you posted that info related to Air 3S photo DNG size )))

Glad you have learned it, also is good that you repeat it in order to remember it better....

You are making progress here, David, proud of you...from category "Jerk" you have advanced to "Newbie Amateur"...a good start.

Burt37 Posted at 11-12 03:37
Is this really your best comeback???  

Come on, let's push the envelope a bit further up...

You’re the nastiest person I have ever seen on this forum. You have no real interest in debating or discussing drones. Its pathetic.

Geo_Drone Posted at 11-12 04:22
Yeah, that is what we said to you when you posted that info related to Air 3S photo DNG size )))

Glad you have learned it, also is good that you repeat it in order to remember it better....

Yeah but getting back to air3s , thankfully we’re seeing many posting some real good footage both here and on You tube its really making a nonsense out of what you’re trying to create hysteria from. I think as they say “the proof is in the pudding”

Heiress Posted at 11-12 04:27
You’re the nastiest person I have ever seen on this forum. You have no real interest in debating or discussing drones. Its pathetic.

Hallmark boyfriend is here...

I have no time to have a discussion with a guy that can tell the truth or apologise when makes a mistake...

Hallmark007 Posted at 11-12 04:19
“It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt”

I give you a 3 out of 10 for that one...

Can you do any better?

Burt37 Posted at 11-12 04:45
Hallmark boyfriend is here...

I have no time to have a discussion with a guy that can tell the truth or apologise when makes a mistake...

just read what you wrote, him who spends his time lecturing others on how and what they write. What is it you said. “You should read what you’ve written before you post”  people in glasshouses . It seems you cannot make a post without shooting yourself in the foot. Maybe you should try discussing drones instead of trolling members on this forum ….

Hallmark007 Posted at 11-12 05:20
just read what you wrote, him who spends his time lecturing others on how and what they write. What is it you said. “You should read what you’ve written before you post”  people in glasshouses . It seems you cannot make a post without shooting yourself in the foot. Maybe you should try discussing drones instead of trolling members on this forum ….

Is that your biography???

We all know who you are... There is no need for reminders...

PS

Coming back to topic as it seems insults are more interesting for some of you than technical discussions...


This is extracted from a sample provided by the same 'old guy' (Hallmark TM) that returned the first drone because of both Moirè and stuttering.

The second unit has exactly the same issues and the stuttering is so bad I can't even look at his video for more than 3 seconds before developing nausea.

Asked him to provide the original footage as I suspect user error in editing anyway.

Below the link of his youtube upload.

Avoletta1977 Posted at 11-13 00:54
Coming back to topic as it seems insults are more interesting for some of you than technical discussions...
[view_image]

I had this lovely situation on the first day of flying Air 3S, don't know if that helps

Avoletta1977 Posted at 11-13 00:54
Coming back to topic as it seems insults are more interesting for some of you than technical discussions...
[view_image]

I think it was a bit of a giveaway when he said he calibrated everything out of the box. If he had of read the manual he would have read “not to calibrate” unless he received a warning to.
This is more like a comedy of errors rather than something wrong with his drone. We don’t know of any camera settings he made except 4k 30fps , we don’t know if he bothered to set up the aircraft for best use let alone best use for filming . Id hazard a guess he used out of the box settings for both camera and drone and if you do that you get what he got , I believe many more competent people would have produced a better all round experience.
It was clear he cannot really handle the drone that well trying to simply yaw the craft was a huge problem for him his drone was continually veering off to the left and right . So I would 100% put this down to the user and not the drone. But if you don’t agree watch many of his earlier attempts at so called testing he returns drones at a serious rate of knots and he knows very little about filming of photography .
Incidentally there are many many excellent videos both on here and you tube and some I’ve posted but you keep going back to the 1 or 2 that you believe have problems which tells me your glass is always half empty. Stop looking at others and go fly your drone and enjoy it.

HardBurger Posted at 11-13 02:07
[view_image]
I had this lovely situation on the first day of flying Air 3S, don't know if that helps

Yes, same issue reported by other users of aliasing translating into thick grayish areas (a bit different and more severe respect to the classic Moirè effect).

Avoletta1977 Posted at 11-13 00:54
Coming back to topic as it seems insults are more interesting for some of you than technical discussions...
[view_image]

Yes, unfortunately is not a wrong edit, but is how this is acting at this compression algorithm and bitrate.

Even Hallmark aka David here recognized in a comment that, and i quote him:
" "Aliasing" is a visual artifact caused by the limited spatial sampling during image processing and/or poor compression or a bad conversion".

What he intended to say is that the image processing/compression is not OK...but he missed to say that is the DJI algorithm inside the drone that is making this, as the Moire and Aliasing can be seen very strong in raw footage.

We can remove them? YES....but with a sacrifice in details and quality...

Good news: no cemetery will get Moire...Hallmark, your drone is PERFECT !
Bad news: some of us works inside town, with lot of buildings and many textures...for us will be more work...(more than with a damn Mini 4 Pro).

Can be fixed by DJI ??
YES, if they want to...is simple:
1. increase the bitrate + decrease compression = more extra fine details = more texture info = less moire and less aliasing
2. For a 1st time, would like to see a video from a sensor in it's raw form, without over-sharpening made in drone by DJI...And this cannot be seen now, as DJI is using Sharpness "minus" as a soft Gauss.Blur, is not removing the Over-sharpening processing even if you select "-2 at Sharpening", is just playing with Gauss blur.

Regards.

Geo_Drone Posted at 11-13 03:55
Yes, unfortunately is not a wrong edit, but is how this is acting at this compression algorithm and bitrate.

Even Hallmark aka David here recognized in a comment that, and i quote him:

In the video I linked the aliasing is a very minor problem compared to stuttering.

Probably is just user error in editing matching screen recording on the same timeline.

Strange enough even official DJI video has massive stuttering (and oversharpening)...Hopefully I'll find some good time to test mine.

Avoletta1977 Posted at 11-13 04:28
In the video I linked the aliasing is a very minor problem compared to stuttering.

Probably is just user error in editing matching screen recording on the same timeline.

Yes, I have also seen in commercial from DJI that....is strange, as I would expect to see a good video as commercial...

Probably one of our smart colleague here will Reply soon and say that DJI is honest and presented the drone "as is" )))

PS. I have seen that your drone arrived....do not forged to check if is clipping, I also have seen this at one friend with Air 3S...mine is not, his was....Easy to be seen by playing the original footage from drone in Resolve for example and watch the Waveform histogram...you can see the spikes a lot easier than to observe Luma increased from time to time.
Have great flights !

Geo_Drone Posted at 11-13 03:55
Yes, unfortunately is not a wrong edit, but is how this is acting at this compression algorithm and bitrate.

Even Hallmark aka David here recognized in a comment that, and i quote him:

No my drone is not perfect but I know how to set up both the drone and the camera for what I want to use them for, something you had great trouble with , born out by watching your videos posted on you tube .
The fact is even when watching the guys vlogs he seems to have moire in his vlogs not shot on drones but handheld cameras. I would go as far as to say there are thousands of videos on you tube with moire in them .The video posted here is just an incredibly bad rendered video I'm surprised you didn't spot that.

I think the fact there are now only a couple of you complaining about this now is proof that AIR3S is producing what people expect they can achieve from it. You seem to be making it all up as you go but convincing no one. But you have done the same with all dji products with no success.

Hallmark007 Posted at 11-13 04:51
No my drone is not perfect but I know how to set up both the drone and the camera for what I want to use them for, something you had great trouble with , born out by watching your videos posted on you tube .
The fact is even when watching the guys vlogs he seems to have moire in his vlogs not shot on drones but handheld cameras. I would go as far as to say there are thousands of videos on you tube with moire in them .The video posted here is just an incredibly bad rendered video I'm surprised you didn't spot that.

We are a couple complaining? YES.
You are only one "young fellow" saying contrary? YES

Both checked.

I believe "a few" is more than "one".

Geo_Drone Posted at 11-13 04:58
We are a couple complaining? YES.
You are only one "young fellow" saying contrary? YES

Nah not true hundreds posting to the contrary , some great videos you just ignore because you cannot achieve, but maybe you just got bad units . Because your glass is always half empty..


“A pessimist says the glass is half empty, an optimist says the glass is half full, and an engineer says the glass is too big.”

Hallmark007 Posted at 11-13 05:02
Nah not true hundreds posting to the contrary , some great videos you just ignore because you cannot achieve, but maybe you just got bad units . Because your glass is always half empty..

Is good that you have started to read books and post quotes...maybe read some Video and Photo articles? For newbies, to be at your level of expertise....

Geo_Drone Posted at 11-13 05:09
Is good that you have started to read books and post quotes...maybe read some Video and Photo articles? For newbies, to be at your level of expertise....

Judging by the videos you posted it looks like you skipped many pages

While you continue with childish chat, I performed a second quick test.

Air3s


Mini4pro


Lack of details and much higher level of aliasing are quite evident on Air3s compared to Mini4pro... (4k60, auto, -2 sharpness 0 noise reduction for both).

Avoletta1977 Posted at 11-13 15:25
While you continue with childish chat, I performed a second quick test.

Air3s

For a drone your tests are some of the most unscientific I have ever seen and make no sense.
If you want to put up some original footage or photographs you can using links.

Hallmark007 Posted at 11-13 15:30
For a drone your tests are some of the most unscientific I have ever seen and make no sense.
If you want to put up some original footage or photographs you can using links.

So comparing in controlled environment the capability of two cameras to resolve fine details is unscientific, while looking at videos of paid youtubers online is a perfect evaluation method...

Avoletta1977 Posted at 11-13 15:46
So comparing in controlled environment the capability of two cameras to resolve fine details is unscientific, while looking videos of paid youtubers online is a perfect evaluation method...

Honestly you have spent two months knocking this camera then you post ridiculous screen grabs that give no detail of exactly what you done, you’re now obviously not going to post original footage or photos “why” its the easiest way to prove your point “ridiculous screen grabs are not” there are many including myself have posted but because the prove you wrong you ignore them .

Again what is controlled environment? What settings on both ? Auto Manual ? SS? Aperture? And let us see  them on a recorded screen there is no metadata on these screen grabs you couldn’t even set the WB correct.

It seems to me you’re not happy with your Air3s so just return it be done and use your Mini pro4 and move on.
Ill wait and see if you put up some original Raw images and footage and lets see what the end result is .

Hallmark007 Posted at 11-13 16:02
Honestly you have spent two months knocking this camera then you post ridiculous screen grabs that give no detail of exactly what you done, you’re now obviously not going to post original footage or photos “why” its the easiest way to prove your point “ridiculous screen grabs are not” there are many including myself have posted but because the prove you wrong you ignore them .

Again what is controlled environment? What settings on both ? Auto Manual ? SS? Aperture? And let us see  them on a recorded screen there is no metadata on these screen grabs you couldn’t even set the WB correct.

As already told you, learn to read.
Settings are listed above.

Asking for aperture value on air3s and mini4 just demonstrates your total incompetence.

Avoletta1977 Posted at 11-13 16:08
As already told you, learn to read.
Settings are listed above.

4k 60fps are settings for recording , they are not camera settings , I can read but you cannot expect anyone to take you serious when you ignore settings .

I don't know the F number for the Mini 4 pro


You will have noticed that everyone ignored the first ridiculous photos you posted, because everything about them was wrong and they came with no information.

Hallmark007 Posted at 11-13 16:14
4k 60fps are settings for recording , they are not camera settings , I can read but you cannot expect anyone to take you serious when you ignore settings .

I don't know the F number for the Mini 4 pro

AUTO is AUTO and representative about how most of the users will set the drone.

The test was aimed at comparing the level of aliasing with IDENTICAL settings between 3s and mini4.

The result is that 3s shows larger artifacts  (even if definitely present as well in Mini4), explaining why they have been reported more often on the new drone.

Aperture is 1.7 for mini4 vs 1.8 for Air3s

On a positive note (half full glass...) I can confirm the noise level is significantly lower.

Avoletta1977 Posted at 11-13 17:02
AUTO is AUTO and representative about how most of the users will set the drone.

The test was aimed at comparing the level of aliasing with IDENTICAL settings between 3s and mini4.

Then why not post the actual footage or photos ?
I already explained on page 2 or 3 on this thread that less MP ON A BIGGER SENSOR would produce less noise

Hallmark007 Posted at 11-13 18:01
Then why not post the actual footage or photos ?
I already explained on page 2 or 3 on this thread that less MP ON A BIGGER SENSOR would produce less noise

Because I can’t post the full video as the room is full of family photos.

When I will have time I’ll redo it by moving stuff away, but results won’t change…

Avoletta1977 Posted at 11-13 18:19
Because I can’t post the full video as the room is full of family photos.

When I will have time I’ll redo it by moving stuff away, but results won’t change…

We all thank you for time spent for doing this. (except some moron that keeps talking nonsense here).
This is a good test, can be seen the difference.

Maybe point it on FB to the DJI ambassadors there, as they always ask for proof that Air 3S is having this issue, in your captured image from footage can be seen.

Thanks.

Geo_Drone Posted at 11-14 00:59
We all thank you for time spent for doing this. (except some moron that keeps talking nonsense here).
This is a good test, can be seen the difference.

I just tried to have a repeatable test for detecting differences between drones. Probably not fully valid in ABSOLUTE terms, but definitely useful in RELATIVE.

Of course is not at certification laboratory level, but since the results are coherent with the observations coming from the field I'll try to refine the procedure and share full results with DJI technical support (I'm already in contact with them).

Take it as well as a suggestion to anyone else would like to try the same for objectifying camera performances (professionals should have studios where this kind of evaluation can be done more easily...).

ISO table can be bought for a few bucks online (mine is a simple print of something similar).

Avoletta1977 Posted at 11-14 01:30
I just tried to have a repeatable test for detecting differences between drones. Probably not fully valid in ABSOLUTE terms, but definitely useful in RELATIVE.

Of course is not at certification laboratory level, but since the results are coherent with the observations coming from the field I'll try to refine the procedure and share full results with DJI technical support (I'm already in contact with them).

I'm really interested in seeing the results of your tests on the field. In Italy we've a lot of roofs with tiles that are a good case for checking the moire effect. I've often seen it (but quite moderate) with both the Mini 4 Pro and the Air 3 when taking videos including the roofs.

FabioV Posted at 11-14 03:15
I'm really interested in seeing the results of your tests on the field. In Italy we've a lot of roofs with tiles that are a good case for checking the moire effect. I've often seen it (but quite moderate) with both the Mini 4 Pro and the Air 3 when taking videos including the roofs.

Results are mixed and situation is not clear.
Some have very strong aliasing (not even manageable in post), other more moderate or absent.

On mine is definitely worse than on Mini4pro.