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Dji Air3s bitrate issue
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Burt37
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Hallmark007 Posted at 10-23 04:13
Now, would you say that a picture with more details is better than a picture with less details? "

So what you are saying is that a picture with more details has less quality...

Right?
10-23 04:16
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Hallmark007 Posted at 10-23 04:06
The fact you think there is a 1” sensor in a Fuji GFX 100 II shows just how little you know, also the fact that you don’t know pixels cause noise and more to the point that the more noise the less quality.

But I suppose thinking you can get a 1” sensor and call it medium format really makes me laugh

Is not about sensor size but pixels....
You said more pixels = more noise = less quality...
10-23 04:22
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Burt37 Posted at 10-23 04:16
So what you are saying is that a picture with more details has less quality...

Right?

I was right you have literally no comprehension of what people are saying.
10-23 04:24
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Burt37 Posted at 10-23 04:16
So what you are saying is that a picture with more details has less quality...

Right?
What he is trying to say without success is there is a limit to the quality you can obtain on a certain sensor size without increasing the noise to unrecoverable levels.

And it is true.

What he don’t want it admit is that this limit may not be 12.5Mpx for a 1”.

10-23 04:27
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Hallmark007 Posted at 10-23 04:24
I was right you have literally no comprehension of what people are saying.

I think you lost the plot...

I'm just repeating what you are saying... You are the one that came up with the word quality...

I'm just trying to understand where you are going with that...

Not trying to be picky here, but since when a single person is called people???

10-23 04:28
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Hallmark007
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Geo_Drone Posted at 10-23 04:22
Is not about sensor size but pixels....
You said more pixels = more noise = less quality...

It’s all about sensor size in fact you keep telling everyone the 1” sensor is too small for 50mp . You really haven’t a clue what you’re talking about.

But yes a 50mp medium format sensor will have less noise than a 100 mp but camera autofocus DR all make a difference in quality, the fact you don't know this tells a lot. But maybe you don't believe I own one just as you didn't think I had an air3s.

I was remarking on the 12mp 1” sensor against a 20mp on a 1” sensor . Your analogy of the 100mp on a medium format camera are ridiculous but I’m not sure you’re even aware of how ridiculous you sound.
Stick to this sensor after all according to you as an expert its rubbish you knew it and yet you still paid for it .
10-23 04:31
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Burt37 Posted at 10-23 04:28
I think you lost the plot...

I'm just repeating what you are saying... You are the one that came up with the word quality...

The fact you don’t know the difference between quality and detail tells me you will never comprehend what anyone will try to explain to you.
10-23 04:35
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Avoletta1977 Posted at 10-23 04:27
What he is trying to say without success is there is a limit to the quality you can obtain on a certain sensor size without increasing the noise to unrecoverable levels.

And it is true.

No one was questioning the quality... And we all have expensive cameras around here, and we are all very familiar with pixel size, light, noise, details...

As a matter of fact, I never mention the word quality...

It is just that when someone tells you that a native 12mp QB has more details than a native 20mp, it is hard to follow...
10-23 04:42
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Hallmark007 Posted at 10-23 00:50
Because on the same sensor they are first bigger and second get more light. You can’t have it both ways believing 50mp on a 1” sensor gives less quality than 20mp but 20mp gives better quality than 12mp on the same sensor. Pixels are and will give you more resolution but also the more you have the more noise you generate you said it yourself. And this is why many top end cameras choose less pixels better quality for certain types of photography.
You can of course apply noise reduction and will need to for bigger prints with the 20mp but now you can also add more mp to photos to also adapt to printing on a 12mp photo.

I`d love to see some of the 12 mp raw files to compare them. If you have any to spanre that would be great help
10-23 04:48
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Burt37 Posted at 10-23 01:20
It is not...

A native 1" 20MP will always give better results that a native 1" 12mp for a photo...

that`s exactly what I say too. but some disagree with some digital magic explanation
10-23 04:50
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Hallmark007 Posted at 10-23 04:31
It’s all about sensor size in fact you keep telling everyone the 1” sensor is too small for 50mp . You really haven’t a clue what you’re talking about.

But yes a 50mp medium format sensor will have less noise than a 100 mp but camera autofocus DR all make a difference in quality, the fact you don't know this tells a lot. But maybe you don't believe I own one just as you didn't think I had an air3s.

"But yes a 50mp medium format sensor will have less noise than a 100 mp but camera autofocus DR all make a difference in quality, the fact you don't know this tells a lot"

Camera autofocus DR????
10-23 04:53
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Hallmark007 Posted at 10-23 02:24
You’re agreeing with something he didn’t say, yes the details will be better but quality won’t, software can be used to damp down noise. But giving BETTER RESULTS is simply subjective.

Fact less pixels = less noise , less noise = better quality

so what is quality? To me that is detailed sharp image and not a noise rubbish. but it`s all such a pointless argument.
10-23 04:54
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Burt37 Posted at 10-23 04:42
No one was questioning the quality... And we all have expensive cameras around here, and we are all very familiar with pixel size, light, noise, details...

As a matter of fact, I never mention the word quality...
Of course it is hard to follow, as it is false (in most light conditions…).
10-23 04:54
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fansc80ee2b3 Posted at 10-23 04:50
that`s exactly what I say too. but some disagree with some digital magic explanation

Well, that someone has now stalled... We are back to personal insults... It is a bit like a kindergarten sometime... But it is all for fun...
10-23 04:57
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fansc80ee2b3 Posted at 10-23 04:48
I`d love to see some of the 12 mp raw files to compare them. If you have any to spanre that would be great help

I dont but if I get a chance tomorrow i will get you some you might equally send on raw for the air2s
10-23 04:59
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Avoletta1977 Posted at 10-23 04:54
Of course it is hard to follow, as it is false (in most light conditions…).

I'm glad we are on the same page...

Italy? Where about?

10-23 05:01
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Geo_Drone Posted at 10-23 04:53
"But yes a 50mp medium format sensor will have less noise than a 100 mp but camera autofocus DR all make a difference in quality, the fact you don't know this tells a lot"

Camera autofocus DR????

Why do you think people lots of money for cameras that have fast accurate autofocus because the bring quality on a regular basis. The fact you think autofocus has no benefit on a camera ability to produce quality photos shows just how dumb you are.

Let’s see he scored a goal “ i missed it my auto focus is too slow” I got it because my cameras auto focus is much quicker” better quality accurate autofocus will get better quality images.
And you actually think the camera doesn't matter, how dumb
10-23 05:04
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fansc80ee2b3 Posted at 10-23 04:54
so what is quality? To me that is detailed sharp image and not a noise rubbish. but it`s all such a pointless argument.

Exactly, but what causes noise ? And do you really believe that pixels don’t cause noise ?
10-23 05:06
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Hallmark007 Posted at 10-23 05:06
Exactly, but what causes noise ? And do you really believe that pixels don’t cause noise ?

Noise is normally caused by lowlight due to the size of the pixels...

No one here is questioning your knowledge...

My point is that, and it has been all along, is that the Air2S has a better sensor than the new Air3S for DETAILED PICTURES
10-23 05:15
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Avoletta1977 Posted at 10-23 04:27
What he is trying to say without success is there is a limit to the quality you can obtain on a certain sensor size without increasing the noise to unrecoverable levels.

And it is true.

Thats not what I’m trying to say and I said below in post 122. Maybe you didn’t read it.

More MP gives higher resolution. Larger pixel size (total sensor area divided by number of pixels determines the noise and image quality,

Say you have a two identical size area sensors like air2s air3s, sensor A with 4 times as many pixels as sensor B.
So sensor A will have more resolution.
But each pixel in B will be four times as large and have 1/4 the noise. So sensor B will have the better image quality, except in the resolution.

I done the math to make it simple to explain it doesn't pertain to Air2s and Air3s except as an example. They obviously have slightly different ratios but the principle is the same.

10-23 05:26
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Burt37 Posted at 10-23 05:15
Noise is normally caused by lowlight due to the size of the pixels...

No one here is questioning your knowledge...

Maybe post the photos so we can see them .
Noise can be cause by many things light,  heat, long exposures times, high iso, too slow shutter speed.
10-23 05:37
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Hallmark007 Posted at 10-23 05:37
Maybe post the photos so we can see them .
Noise can be cause by many things light,  heat, long exposures times, high iso, too slow shutter speed.

I don't have an Air 2S...I wish I did buy one instead of the Mini 3 Pro...Then my brother gave me his Mavic 3, so I don't need another drone...

"Noise can be cause by many things light,  heat, long exposures times, high iso, too slow shutter speed."

That does apply to any picture and any camera... I was specifically talking about the difference in noise between the 1"12mp and the 1" 20mp...

Every time I saw pictures (and videos) here on this forum taken with the Air2S they always looked great... Now I'm seeing the Air3S and I'm thinking more like similar to the Mini4 Pro, Mini3 Pro...

10-23 05:54
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Hallmark007 Posted at 10-23 04:59
I dont but if I get a chance tomorrow i will get you some you might equally send on raw for the air2s

yes sure, just take a few in different subjects with the 12 mp on the main and on the 70 mm too
10-23 07:05
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DJI Thor Posted at 10-16 07:31
HI there, we understand your concern. The DJI Air 3S utilizes the latest encoding algorithm, which optimizes the bitrate by over 30% while maintaining superior video quality. This allows users to save more storage space without compromising on the visual experience.It will not cause any loss in adaptive video quality.

this is a lie there are hundreds of reports solved this problem.
10-23 11:27
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Hallmark007
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lesset Posted at 10-23 11:27
this is a lie there are hundreds of reports solved this problem.

Can you tell me what is wrong with this video . It was recorded on air3s in conditions that are extremely challenging , you'll get a much higher rendition when watched on you tube.
10-23 14:10
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Hallmark007 Posted at 10-23 14:10
Can you tell me what is wrong with this video . It was recorded on air3s in conditions that are extremely challenging , you'll get a much higher rendition when watched on you tube.
https://youtu.be/HYHPIQb6bfI?si=7PZH-NXdBFYOcYZh

How can you tell, that the entire video was taken using the Air3S ???

I'm not questioning the integrity of the video or the quality, but from a technical point of view, how can you tell if it was entirely made using the Air3S?
10-23 17:37
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Hallmark007 Posted at 10-23 05:04
Why do you think people lots of money for cameras that have fast accurate autofocus because the bring quality on a regular basis. The fact you think autofocus has no benefit on a camera ability to produce quality photos shows just how dumb you are.

Let’s see he scored a goal “ i missed it my auto focus is too slow” I got it because my cameras auto focus is much quicker” better quality accurate autofocus will get better quality images.

You need to take your pills....
We talk here about bitrate of video and the fact that AIr 3S cannot have same quality with 75 MBPS versus 130 MBPS on same H265 codec, no matter how "optimized" is the encoding.
This because is a very simple fact: H265 encoding is made on compression of blocks of image....you would know if you would work in a editing studio with ProRes, H265 and DnXHQ.
The more you compress, the more you affect the small details.

This can be seen very easy at contours of objects and small details in Air 3S footage, that ones become very fuzzy and blurred, without clear lines.

Goodbye, Hallmark.
10-23 22:47
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Geo_Drone Posted at 10-23 22:47
You need to take your pills....
We talk here about bitrate of video and the fact that AIr 3S cannot have same quality with 75 MBPS versus 130 MBPS on same H265 codec, no matter how "optimized" is the encoding.
This because is a very simple fact: H265 encoding is made on compression of blocks of image....you would know if you would work in a editing studio with ProRes, H265 and DnXHQ.
Then you will have paid ‘influencers’ like Billy Kyle that for promoting the Air3s against the Mavic3pro use a 7.1 aperture on the latter complaining about lack of sharpness…
10-24 00:16
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Geo_Drone Posted at 10-23 22:47
You need to take your pills....
We talk here about bitrate of video and the fact that AIr 3S cannot have same quality with 75 MBPS versus 130 MBPS on same H265 codec, no matter how "optimized" is the encoding.
This because is a very simple fact: H265 encoding is made on compression of blocks of image....you would know if you would work in a editing studio with ProRes, H265 and DnXHQ.

Remember I’ve seen your videos you definitely didn’t work in an editing studio. You did also rubbish the pocket 3 which is also a 1" sensor giving your expert view which was nothing but nonsense disproved in spades by how many use and love that camera. You do know this is not pro res something you keep bringing up. Again no one can say what’s wrong with the video posted .
10-24 01:01
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Burt37 Posted at 10-23 17:37
How can you tell, that the entire video was taken using the Air3S ???

I'm not questioning the integrity of the video or the quality, but from a technical point of view, how can you tell if it was entirely made using the Air3S?

Who said it was all recorded on air3s but there are obvious drone shots and ground shots , but its absolutely stunning, I am being told air3s is inferior to air2s air3 but looking at this video its not . Maybe someone can actually point to where it falls down I can’t see it.
10-24 01:04
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Avoletta1977 Posted at 10-24 00:16
The you will have paid ‘influencers’ like Billy Kyle that for promoting the Air3s against the Mavic3pro use a 7.1 aperture on the latter complaining about lack of sharpness…

I didn’t post anything from billy Kyle .
10-24 01:05
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Hallmark007 Posted at 10-24 01:04
Who said it was all recorded on air3s but there are obvious drone shots and ground shots , but its absolutely stunning, I am being told air3s is inferior to air2s air3 but looking at this video its not . Maybe someone can actually point to where it falls down I can’t see it.

Which ones of the drone shots sare taken with the Air3S... Can you tell?

I think, and I'm just guessing, that the only Air 3S parts in that video you posted is when you can see all the DJI Fly setting on the screen...

The difference between those bits and the rest of the video, including the other drone shots are like day and night.. Perhaps a video made to help sales...

But at the end of the day, if you believe that the Air3S lens is better than the Air2S lens, I'm ok with that.. We all have different views and preferences... As it stands, I just don't think it is...

It would be great to get an uninterrupted video with DJI Fly setting on screen side by side of the two drones.. That, to me, would be the best and only way to see what is what...

10-24 01:24
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Hallmark007
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Burt37 Posted at 10-24 01:24
Which ones of the drone shots sare taken with the Air3S... Can you tell?

I think, and I'm just guessing, that the only Air 3S parts in that video you posted is when you can see all the DJI Fly setting on the screen...

Well I think that I opened and flew both of them, the air3s is an upgrade on air3 and air2s as far as my experience, but I also remember the release of the air2s and the constant whining on this forum about the sensor and very similar with air3 but now they’re great as its time to knock the new king on the block.
But each drone has and will be optimized as all dji drones are and I don’t know of one that failed to improve in time. So the usual guff you read is mostly seen through those who constantly wear blinkers.
10-24 02:26
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Hallmark007 Posted at 10-24 02:26
Well I think that I opened and flew both of them, the air3s is an upgrade on air3 and air2s as far as my experience, but I also remember the release of the air2s and the constant whining on this forum about the sensor and very similar with air3 but now they’re great as its time to knock the new king on the block.
But each drone has and will be optimized as all dji drones are and I don’t know of one that failed to improve in time. So the usual guff you read is mostly seen through those who constantly wear blinkers.

Any video editor will tell you that EXPORT BITRATE for quality is made after a simple formula:

Bitrate =  FPS * 2.000

This is why in 60 FPS you need MINIMUM 60 * 2.000 = 120 Mbps.

This is why we all sustain that 75MBPS on a DLOGM is pure garbage.

Goodbye David. You get an F, go to your bench.
10-24 03:52
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lesset Posted at 10-23 11:27
this is a lie there are hundreds of reports solved this problem.

Hi there, our products have undergone rigorous testing before the release, and we confirmed that there are no issues. If you have used or experienced the product and encounter any problems, we encourage you to provide us with feedback at any time. We are fully committed to offering you further assistance.
10-24 03:57
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DJI Thor Posted at 10-24 03:57
Hi there, our products have undergone rigorous testing before the release, and we confirmed that there are no issues. If you have used or experienced the product and encounter any problems, we encourage you to provide us with feedback at any time. We are fully committed to offering you further assistance.

We already told you with several examples that Air3s has two main issues:
- Moirè effect on regular patterns
- Lower bitrate than declared (and needed): max 90Mbps vs 130 declared.

Denying they exist will not make them disappear…

10-24 04:12
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Geo_Drone Posted at 10-24 03:52
Any video editor will tell you that EXPORT BITRATE for quality is made after a simple formula:

Bitrate =  FPS * 2.000

But you never take into account the new encoding system. But we can see with our own eyes that some excellent results have been achieved even before any updates or optimization has been released. I’m 100 % certain that you whined about air2s pocket 3 and almost every other dji drone and you were wrong in many cases and for that you receive many Fs .
10-24 04:13
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DJI Thor Posted at 10-24 03:57
Hi there, our products have undergone rigorous testing before the release, and we confirmed that there are no issues. If you have used or experienced the product and encounter any problems, we encourage you to provide us with feedback at any time. We are fully committed to offering you further assistance.

Thor,
The algorithm for H265 is the one presented, you need on Air 3S minimum 120MBPS for 60fps and minimum 150mbps for 120fps in order to keep the quality.

All less then this = cutting the quality in edit and use software artificial sharpening, thing that is seen now on Air 3S by everybody

So stop talking nonsense and tell R&D to take action and fix this....Is easy to be done, I do not see WHY is such resistance at DJI in creating a PRO profile that enable a 130MBPS encoding.
10-24 06:03
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Hallmark007 Posted at 10-24 04:13
But you never take into account the new decoding system. But we can see with our own eyes that some excellent results have been achieved even before any updates or optimization has been released. I’m 100 % certain that you whined about air2s pocket 3 and almost every other dji drone and you were wrong in many cases and for that you receive many Fs .

What decoding system are you talking about????
We talk here about encoding, this is made in H265 that uses profiles for low and high coding / bitrate.

And for your own info, H265 cannot be manipulated as "improving the encoding without lowering quality", you AMATEUR... Learn H265 codec and how is working!!.
10-24 06:06
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Geo_Drone Posted at 10-24 06:06
What decoding system are you talking about????
We talk here about encoding, this is made in H265 that uses profiles for low and high coding / bitrate.

Yes and you said the same about pocket 3 , you keep avoiding that but you were hopelessly wrong, just as you were with air 2s and so many other dji products . In fact there is no one on this forum that hates all dji products but continues to buy them. If the air3s is so bad then why do you have it ? Particularly when you are so fond of telling everyone you know so much , does that not seem strange to you.
10-24 06:21
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