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KP index at 7
2043 30 2015-10-7
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Sir Edward K
Second Officer

United States
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Just an observation. The KP  index is at 7 right now according to the magnetology app.
That is the highest I have seen it since I have been flying the phantom.
2015-10-7
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Phantom Help
Captain
Flight distance : 183694 ft
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United States
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I'm still waiting for the first person to blame a crash on the KP index
2015-10-7
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dji.blitzk
lvl.3

United States
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They predict the max will be 7 within this window.... It's hit 9 at least once every day this past week.
2015-10-7
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ag0n
Captain
Flight distance : 700846 ft
United States
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Radio conditions suck.
2015-10-7
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jayhkr
Second Officer

United States
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I was out earlier in KS (not sure if that matters as fas as the KP index goes) but I forgot to look at the value.  Took off, flew my normal route to catch the trees slowly turning.  Looked down and saw I was getting the compass error message.  Was only 1000 or so feet out and could just pinpoint it in the sky.  Brought her back and switched to atti mode before I hand caught her.  Checked the values and it was around 6-7.  Bonehead move on my part not checking.  But I just got the Ipad Air 2 and this was my first flight out with it and zoned out.  Noticed tomorrow it's supposed to be down to around 4 so I'll try it again tomorrow with 2 fresh batteries ready to go!
2015-10-7
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Willie Wonka
First Officer

United States
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Without looking today i realized that we are being attacked by a solar storm at around 1pm to 2pm, my in dash GPS on my car just stopped updating all of the sudden.

And another thing to watch out for is F.....ing CRAZY PEOPLE come out and wreck havoc on the streets when this happens and they become lunatic drivers ............ Steam off !
2015-10-7
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DJI-Tim
DJI team

Hong Kong
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What app did you use, i'll download one
2015-10-7
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LeHussard
lvl.3
Flight distance : 297523 ft
France
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DJI-Tim Posted at 2015-10-8 09:41
What app did you use, i'll download one

app "MAGNETOLOGY" (android&IOS)
app "HOVER" (IOS only)
2015-10-7
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sploodge
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Flight distance : 809350 ft
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United Kingdom
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My compass mod was about 1649 when I flew very early this morning ( UK time ). Normally its about 1520.. Flew fine though no issues.
2015-10-8
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Sir Edward K
Second Officer

United States
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DJI-Tim Posted at 2015-10-8 02:41
What app did you use, i'll download one

I use Magnetology app and it notifies you when the value changes.
2015-10-8
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DJI-Tim
DJI team

Hong Kong
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Sir Edward K Posted at 2015-10-8 18:07
I use Magnetology app and it notifies you when the value changes.

yeach, unfortunately we can't see the history of changes
2015-10-8
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Sir Edward K
Second Officer

United States
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DJI-Tim Posted at 2015-10-8 05:13
yeach, unfortunately we can't see the history of changes

Check out this site and look under data for the history to see what they have:

http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/products/planetary-k-index
2015-10-8
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jayhkr
Second Officer

United States
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LeHussard Posted at 2015-10-8 02:56
app "MAGNETOLOGY" (android&IOS)
app "HOVER" (IOS only)

Hover will work for Android, had it on my HTC One 8 phone.
2015-10-8
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SectorDrone
First Officer
Flight distance : 919751 ft
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Hong Kong
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Flew with 3 batteries... No issue ..
2015-10-8
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aopisa
Second Officer
Flight distance : 430686 ft
United States
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Got a compass error yesterday and the Phantom quickly took off and crashed into the trees. Luckily no damage.

I often check the Kp index to see if we might get some auroras in the evening. I need to make it a habit to check during the day before I fly.
2015-10-8
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DJI-Dave
Captain

United States
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I like to use the solar monitor app. It's kind of expensive though at  $10.
2015-10-8
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DJI-Dave
Captain

United States
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7 is high but a couple months ago I saw 8  KP and  did not fly.
2015-10-8
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DJI-Dave
Captain

United States
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aopisa Posted at 2015-10-8 09:01
Got a compass error yesterday and the Phantom quickly took off and crashed into the trees. Luckily n ...

Yeah I always check real quick before I fly.
2015-10-8
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jayhkr
Second Officer

United States
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DJI-Dave Posted at 2015-10-8 11:30
I like to use the solar monitor app. It's kind of expensive though at  $10.

$10 to save $1000 or more............I'll look into that app.
2015-10-8
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DJI-Dave
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United States
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jayhkr Posted at 2015-10-8 09:32
$10 to save $1000 or more............I'll look into that app.

Yeah it's worth it! I really like the look of the interface and it's extremely easy to use.
2015-10-8
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Cessna172
Second Officer
United States
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So many people say that the Kp-Index has no effect on Phantoms.   That being concerned with the Kp index is like worrying about a volcanic eruption on another planet.

Of course, they don't have any evidence to back it up other than he said she said or personal observation.   But they WILL ridicule you for your concern.
2015-10-8
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jayhkr
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United States
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Cessna172 Posted at 2015-10-8 12:02
So many people say that the Kp-Index has no effect on Phantoms.   That being concerned with the Kp i ...

Ridicule all they want, unless they are buying me another bird if anything happens to it . I like to error on the side of caution.
2015-10-8
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Sir Edward K
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United States
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aopisa Posted at 2015-10-8 11:01
Got a compass error yesterday and the Phantom quickly took off and crashed into the trees. Luckily n ...

I am glad your bird came out alright.  Did you check your Mod values before you flew?  I wonder if they would show it?  I really think that the way to look at the KP Index is to think about it like a tornado warning or a severe thunder storm warning.  Because the solar storm is messing with the magnetic field it will cause differing affects throughout the world.  

But just because you did not have your house hit and lose your roof during the severe thunderstorm or tornado does not mean that someone else in your area did not have it happen to them.   

When they sound the sirens for the storm warning we each take actions appropriately.  Some seek shelter and safety and other's get in their cars and seek out the storm.  
2015-10-8
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Sir Edward K
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sploodge Posted at 2015-10-8 03:26
My compass mod was about 1649 when I flew very early this morning ( UK time ). Normally its about 15 ...

I flew mine at around 2:30 PM  and that is about 5 hours behind you and mine was around 1535 and that is where it usually is.  It flew normally but if I would have checked prior I don't think I would have flown it.
I usually check it out of habit .
2015-10-8
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DarrenDCClark
lvl.2

United Kingdom
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Headed out today as it was glorious sunshine and flat calm. Did't fly in the end though as noticed it was showing a KP of 7 when I checked. That along with the fact that a whole crowd of school kids turned up at the location I was going to shoot. Oh well, live to fight another day...
2015-10-8
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Stealth...
lvl.3

Bosnia and Herzegovina
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DJI-Dave Posted at 2015-10-8 18:30
I like to use the solar monitor app. It's kind of expensive though at  $10.

My dji-dealer in the Netherlands advised me this app for ios and I use this ever since.
2015-10-8
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aopisa
Second Officer
Flight distance : 430686 ft
United States
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Sir Edward K Posted at 2015-10-8 13:25
I am glad your bird came out alright.  Did you check your Mod values before you flew?  I wonder if  ...

Yes, I always check my Mod values. They were about 1515 or so. I noticed that over the last few flights I had some minor drifting which is not normal for me. So, I did a calibration before I flew. I calibrate very infrequently and mostly try to avoid it if I can. After calibration the Mod values were about 1495-1501.

I flew one battery for about 20 minutes with no issues. The compass error occurred about a minute into the second battery.

I can post a video, but I am not sure it is worth the trouble. You can see it do a 180 turn and just head for the trees. I replayed it on the app and there is no stick movement until I try to make some futile corrections right before the crash.
2015-10-8
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SectorDrone
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aopisa Posted at 2015-10-9 03:46
Yes, I always check my Mod values. They were about 1515 or so. I noticed that over the last few fl ...

Is the higher KP gets you higher Compass mod ...?
2015-10-8
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mike.wildlight
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Flight distance : 5623 ft
Australia
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Cessna172 Posted at 2015-10-9 03:02
So many people say that the Kp-Index has no effect on Phantoms.   That being concerned with the Kp i ...


Hey Cessna172,
I've had quite the opposite experience. When I questioned just how much risk there was for our little birds in the fb group after doing some research, I was criticised for not understanding or being a fool (implied) not just following what some of the DJI people were saying.
The only evidence presented for the strong wariness was anecdotal.

This is some of the factual information I've come across:
http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/impacts/space-weather-and-gps-systems
It mentions GPS accuracy errors of 10s of meters during a severe space weather storm rather than catastrophic signal failures.

"The principal users affected by geomagnetic storms are the electrical power grid, spacecraft operations, users of radio signals that reflect off of or pass through the ionosphere, and observers of the aurora."

So this may affect GPS signal but not the LOS telemetry or control systems. I use GPS a lot in both my personal and professional lives and never had anything other than temporary and minor glitches which can usually be attributed to terrain, vegetation or heavy cloud. I’m thinking that using Kp as a reason not to fly or an explanation for fly-aways in most circumstances is a bit of a stretch

This is the official NOAA GPS dashboard which refers to a lot more than just Kp:
http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/communi ... community-dashboard

For an explanation of Kp, relationship to geomagnetic storms and their the effects have a look at the geomagnetic storm tab here:
http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/noaa-scales-explanation
Even at severe they refer to degradation of the system rather than "failure".

From this data use Kp 7 or more as your conservative threshold rather than the 5 that is commonly discussed.

At 9 or over the GPS satellites can shut down so yep that's gonna stuff it for GPS flight for sure.

I contacted a DJI employee who had some experience in this and he sent through the following information:
http://www.sdr.gov/docs/185820_Space_FINAL.pdf
This document refers to the disaster risks associated with solar events. It describes in a very severe event back in 2006 which caused the loss of the WAAS system (which I'm pretty sure is not used by DJI anyway) for 10hours on two consecutive days and widespread GPS outages. In these conditions you would not get a GPS fix to start with in the affected areas or a significantly reduced number of satellites.

http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/impacts/space-weather-and-gps-systems
This page was the source of my earlier quote and states (more fully) "In calm conditions, single frequency GPS systems can provide position information with an accuracy of a meter or less. During a severe space weather storm, these errors can increase to tens of meters or more." Again though, 10s of meters is not going to cause catastrophic fly-ways, or be an explanation for signal losses.

http://hesperia.gsfc.nasa.gov/sftheory/spaceweather.htm
This also just refers to the degradation of GPS signals as discussed above.
(edit- His position still was that it was a concern for him despite the science in his links)

I'm lucky enough to know some very smart people experienced in the professional use of telemetry and GPS, none of whom believe there is a significant risk with all but the most extreme events.

As far as I can see the science doesn't support the fear factor.
Looking at the science I can only come up with two explanations.
1) The community has a disproportionate wariness of solar storms to the actual risk.
2) The DJI tech is unusually susceptible to issues related to solar storms.
Of these I believe the former is far more likely scenario.
I haven't noticed any formal literature from DJI suggesting the people check Kp and do not fly above a certain value.

I have a passion for science and the truth and I too frequently see the  well intentioned, repeating what amounts to speculation as truth and fact. I seem to have a annoying (to me and probably to others) compulsion to correct that.

So I would say to all do not spread fear, spread knowledge and make informed decisions about what is the risk to you.

End of Rant
Cheers
Mike
2015-11-20
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labroides
Captain
Flight distance : 9991457 ft
Australia
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Not a rant at all.  It's always a good idea to look for the truth rather than follow forum chatter.
The K Index thing is very much over-hyped.
It has not caused problems yet and if it did, they would be very much less than some of the things being imagined.
By the time it is strong enough to cause issues, you would have a lot more to worry about than just Phantom flying.
2015-11-21
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Geebax
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Australia
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labroides@yahoo Posted at 2015-11-21 20:15
Not a rant at all.  It's always a good idea to look for the truth rather than follow forum chatter.
...

"By the time it is strong enough to cause issues, you would have a lot more to worry about than just Phantom flying."

Amen to that.
2015-11-21
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