After having an email discussion with a "tech" who didn't seem very knowledgable of the issues, my hope is that a real person from DJI will respond to this thread:
First let me start a little with my background:
I have been both a Radio Control pilot and a pilot of real aircraft for over 25 years. Additionally, I have been a licensed Airframe & Powerplant mechanic for 12 years. I also have backgrounds in "in-orbit" satellite control, radio comminications,  and nuclear power. I only mention my work history and experience to make it clear that I am well versed and knowledable when it comes to my questions and concerns here.

My dilemma:
I have been waiting with great anticipation for the release of the DJI Phantom 2 Vision+. Last week, I was getting ready to purchase one as a Christmas present to myself. Before I pulled the trigger on the order, I did a little bit of reading. Of particular interest was the "no-fly zone" feature. At first glance, I thought to myself, "very cool!" and "great idea". Unfortunately, this initial feeling lasted just for a moment. I assumed that this system was good to have as a "default" feature but that more advanced users should be able to deactivate it. The more I read, the more this option seemed unlikely.

My main concern was due to some of the locations I planned on doing some filming--inside some of the large maintenance hangars that I work in all over the country (USA). I have captured some pretty good video of my guys working on our planes overnight with my Parrot AR, but I was really lookng forward to stepping that up a notch with the gimballed camera of the Vision+. Unfortunately most of these indoor hangars now fall under the no-fly zone that DJI has programmed into their firmware.

I contacted DJI tech support to ask them how I could accompish my objectives with the Vision+...I asked could I deactivate the no-fly zones, fly in a different mode, or disable the GPS--the answer I received were, "No" and "this is governed by the FAA!"

NO! There is no legal requirement to place no-fly zones into controller software of radio control aircraft! The applicable rules are found in AC 91-57 and they certainly do not mention these "requirements" because they DO NOT EXIST! You can legally fly in a hangar smack in the middle of Class B Airspace. You can actually fly inside Class C or D airspace provided you have made arrangments with ATC, FSS, or whatever governing entity presides over the airspace in question!

I think it is a valid assumption that this unwanted feature (no-fly zone) was created to appease some government nay-sayers and to show that DJI is doing something to prevent would be ass-hats from doing something unscrupulous. Obviously the Chinese government (where DJI is based) loves this since they had DJI create a no-fly zone within 15km of Tiananmen Square. For those young people that don't remember, Tiananmen Square is a bad memory for the Chinese government. Don't know what I am talking about? Take a look at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_1989.

Here on the other side of the world, we are very protective of the freedoms that we have earned. Freedoms which seem to be put in jeopardy more and more everyday. Having an undefeatable no-fly zone system in place which can deactivate your personal property at the whim of DJI or the government is an affront to freedom and goes contrary to common sense. Don't understand me? Listen...

One of the first things that we have learned in the aviation industry (especially as technology has expanded in leaps and bounds) is that in a flying machine...ANY device which functions automatically MUST be able to be defeated. Automatic devices can fail due to interference, mechanical problems, or problems with new code being implemented. Since this technology is based on GPS positioning, a no-fly zone can be created by ANYONE with the technical means at any time they want (not just the government or police). Ever heard of GPS spoofing? GPS devices can be fooled to think they are somewhere else..see: http://www.itnews.com.au/News/351659,students-hijack-luxury-yacht-with-gps-spoofing.aspx. The technology to create a GPS spoofing attack exists today! This is one of the many reasons why the DJI No-Fly zone should be able to be deactivated by the pilot.

As implemented, if a no-fly zone enabled DJI product is happily flying along and then all of a sudden finds itself in a no-fly zone it makes a beeline for the ground. According to DJI you still have some directional control but this is a moot point if there are trees in the line of sight between you and your aircraft. This seems inherently dangerous and foolish.

Enough about my concerns...how about some suggestions:

If as a condition of doing business in communist countries, DJI must enable no-fly zones, then so be it.
But, how about releasing a different version for those of us that live in more democratic nations?

As I stated before, I can totally understand having the system...and I think it should be "on" by default, but it should also be defeatable. If defeated, the no-fly database should still be able to give warnings, but it should not be in control of the aircraft. If somehow DJI feels that this puts them in some sort of legal hot water (I think having it non-defeatable is more harmful), then incorporate a waiver system or something of the like..(i.e. you must electronically accept terms/conditions like we do with any other product). Or, if you want something more trackable, DJI sends you an unlock code after signing a waiver. None of my other aircraft have this unwated option and their respective manufacturers are ok with that.

In closing, I really, really, REALLY wanted to purchase that new Vision+ but if DJI is going to prevent me from flying my unit (both responsibilly and legally), then there is no reason for me to purchase it. There are of course other options (the Blade 350 QX2 or the 3D Robotics Iris+ immediately come to mind), but I think I am going to give you guys (or the hacker community) a chance first. Please consider my suggestions.
Thanks,
Brian

For every 1 responsible pilot (you) there are 20 or more irresponsible pilot wannabes out there that would  buzz the runways of a large airport just to get some footage of a 747 landing or taking off.  That is why they have the no fly zones incorporated into their flight controller programs.   As you say, there are other options out there,  other machines that will do what you want.

Gerry1124 Posted at 2014-12-19 08:16
For every 1 responsible pilot (you) there are 20 or more irresponsible pilot wannabes out there that ...

Thanks for backing up my point. Just as auto manufacturers can not expect to be held liable for someone using bad judgement and breaking the law with their car--the same should hold true for DJI and their quads.

I believe you would fly it in ATTI Mode or Manual Mode and not be affected.  Check out the manual section 6.2.   Section 6.3 Chart also indicates that "Limits of Special Area" do not apply in Non-GPS Mode.
Further, the manual also explains recovering control with the S1 switch if you enter a limitied area in GPS Mode, or if the unit switches to GPS Mode (failsafe perhaps).

I believe GPS Mode is the only mode affected.  You would not use GPS mode indoors or in a hangar anyhow.
Jamie

sanityassassin Posted at 2014-12-19 09:47
Thanks for backing up my point. Just as auto manufacturers can not expect to be held liable for so ...

The 20 + pilots will ruin it for everybody.  It is a privilege to fly as drive a car, not a right.  It can be taken away as easy as passing a strict law prohibiting flying all together.  Car manufacturers can and ARE sued.  Drone manufacturers will be also if people are injured.

ljhellmich@yaho Posted at 2014-12-19 09:48
I believe you would fly it in ATTI Mode or Manual Mode and not be affected.  Check out the manual se ...

Thanks for the info...as I haven't purchased the Vision+ yet, I was unsure of whether or not that would work. I specifically asked the tech rep if I could fly in ATTI or manual in order to do what I want and this was the reply I got:

"Actually you would not be able to fly in a different mode as the areas you are looking to fly from are listed in no fly zones. Therefore your UAV would be inoperable. I do apologize for any inconvenience on this."

So which way is it? Too much conflicting information. Just hoping someone from DJI more knowledagble than this tech guy I was emailing with replies to this post and sets the record straight.

Gerry1124 Posted at 2014-12-19 09:55
The 20 + pilots will ruin it for everybody.  It is a privilege to fly as drive a car, not a right. ...

Yes, you can sue anybody for anything (but winning the suit is the question). One of the many problems with living in an overly litigious society.

sanityassassin Posted at 2014-12-19 10:38
Yes, you can sue anybody for anything (but winning the suit is the question). One of the many prob ...

Most do win.

Well, my curiosity is aroused.  I will do a props-off test near our local Category B airport tomorrow or Saturday to see if it will start the motors in GPS or ATTI, etc...  Unless someone else reports on this beforehand.

Jamie

The Parrot Bebop is somewhat stabilized compared to your AR and they have an indoor mode.....just saying that it may be an option if this doesn't work out.
Also, you can see if the new Blade 350QX3 AP has manual mode....etc. - Horizon takes phone calls and you can probably get someone who knows the deal...well, maybe....

If you can find Tahoe Ed around the forum (he's a DJI forum employee) - ask him. If he doesn't know, he will find out.

If our Phantoms are inoperable inside any airport no-fly zone, then the conclusion must be that all those UAV/airplane near-misses we've been hearing about in the media are confirmed not to have been Phantoms, in spite of the accompanying pictures suggesting otherwise.

That said, I doubt that Phantoms don't fly at all within no-fly zones. I reckon they'll fly, albeit in ATTI or Manual mode. Perhaps we can get confirmation of this either way?

As for those wanting to fly indoors safely without GPS, maybe the VPS-assisted Inspire is the answer.

When people state making rules up, where none are written, so that they can do what they want, when they want, and where they want, because they feel they have the "right" to do so is the reason the FAA, CAA, and other aviation organazations make rules stricter. The 91-57 was written in June of 1981. The FAA was allowing people to use commen sense and form they won rules. Now that will all go away to very tight controlling rules. Those few that do not care about anything or anyone but them selves are causing the problem. You never see headlines such as "Drone pilot following the rules and flying safely" or "Drones are safe and good".

This has been mentioned before but i am bored and want to join in Atti / Manual mode disables the GPS so you can fly anywhere right? If not, just pop the hood and disconnect the GPS module and hey presto, the Phantom wont know where it is and will take off regardless of regulations as long as you are capable of flying it?

'That said, I doubt that Phantoms don't fly at all within no-fly zones. I reckon they'll fly, albeit in ATTI or Manual mode. Perhaps we can get confirmation of this either way?'

When in Attitude mode I'm fairly sure the Phantom knows where it is via GPS , its just that GPS stabilisation is not employed as you can always sw1 up to get stabilisation.  When you lose GPS then it reverts to Attitude mode (without knowing where it is).

I'm not sure how Manual mode works - whether it still knows where it is or not. GPS does not work to well inside anyway.

mh@blackcatinve Posted at 2014-12-19 19:52
This has been mentioned before but i am bored and want to join in  Atti / Manual mode disables the ...

That's the problem...there is too much conflicting information. If I had a Phantom I could check it out...as it stands, I am waiting to purchase based on the outcome.

mh@blackcatinve Posted at 2014-12-19 19:52
This has been mentioned before but i am bored and want to join in  Atti / Manual mode disables the ...

Your Phantom will NOT start if the GPS module is unplugged.  I did the GPS copper shield mod and forgot to reconnect it when I closed it up.  I could NOT start it until I went back in and plugged it into the unit.

insitb@singnet. Posted at 2014-12-19 17:04
If our Phantoms are inoperable inside any airport no-fly zone, then the conclusion must be that all  ...

Man, I would love to get an Inspire! Super cool! You don't happen to have 3 grand you can part with do 'ya?

Gerry1124 Posted at 2014-12-19 20:58
Your Phantom will NOT start if the GPS module is unplugged.  I did the GPS copper shield mod and f ...

You could just place some shielding (copper tape maybe?) over the top middle of the Phantom where the GPS is located to prevent it from getting a signal.

jmtw000@gmail.c Posted at 2014-12-20 00:50
You could just place some shielding (copper tape maybe?) over the top middle of the Phantom where  ...

Yes you could, but is it THAT important to you to fly in a restricted airport zone?

Gerry1124 Posted at 2014-12-20 01:40
Yes you could, but is it THAT important to you to fly in a restricted airport zone?

Not to me. But, if you're like the OP who wants to take video in the hangers near airports it might be. Come to think of it, since he wants to take video inside the hangers, the Phantom might not be able to get GPS in there anyhow and he wouldn't have to worry about it knowing it's in a no-fly zone.

jmtw000@gmail.c Posted at 2014-12-20 01:45
Not to me. But, if you're like the OP who wants to take video in the hangers near airports it migh ...

That is right, usually no sats inside.

You can also fly in Manual mode.  I have found that DJI's maps of the airports leave a lot to be desired.  I was able to take off at the end the McCarren International Airport in Las Vegas.  I would check the App for restrictions where you are.  It is only within a very small area that takeoff is not possible.  If you are flying indoors then GPS is not an issue.  

I wouldn't fret much,  by the time you  have to worry about No Fly zones it will probably break or fly away.

Close the hangar door and you won't even get a GPS signal.  Problem solved.

IF YOU FLY IN MANUAL MODE, YOU CAN FLY ANYWHERE,,, EVEN IN YOUR LIVING ROOM,,, fact!

kjkisatsky@comc Posted at 2014-12-20 02:45
Close the hangar door and you won't even get a GPS signal.  Problem solved.

Well, the signal goes in and out on our aircraft in the hangar when we have the GPS and INUs turned on. That was my primary concern...flying around and then all of a sudden I get signal and the Phantom dive bombs into the hangar floor.

I did get a message from someone in sales stating that their units which are equipped with the A2 controller (higher end units) has the option to turn no-fly off...she even sent me a screenshot...looks like they went with the pop-up disclaimer (as I suggested) when you turn it off. Wish they would enable this option on the Phantom Naza controllers but the sales lady hinted at the fact that they made the Phantoms so accessible that any retard can fly them, hence the precautions.  

Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2014-12-20 02:11
You can also fly in Manual mode.  I have found that DJI's maps of the airports leave a lot to be des ...

Thanks for the info...yes, there are no-fly restrictions over 2 of the 3 hangars I primarily use. Pardon my ignorance, but I don't know much about how the Phantoms fly. In Manual mode is there some sort of gyro stabilization, heading hold, or other form of stabilization or will I have to stay on top of it constantly in manual?   

sanityassassin Posted at 2014-12-20 05:54
Thanks for the info...yes, there are no-fly restrictions over 2 of the 3 hangars I primarily use.  ...

Gyros only.  No accelerometers, altitude hold or course lock.  You have to fly it and be on top of it all the time.

Ed, when you say "gyros only", what is it the gyros do exactly? I was under the impression that in Manual mode, not even the gyros are active. Meaning that the copter would not automatically stay level, which is what I assumed the gyros do.

Please elaborate a little if you would.

Thanks.

I have never had mine in full manual but I would think that the gyroscopic effect would still be there because of the fact its multi rotor.

umpa Posted at 2014-12-21 03:23
I have never had mine in full manual but I would think that the gyroscopic effect would still be the ...

Sure, there is inherent stability in a quadcopter because of the gyroscopic effect of the rotors but the question is about controller gyros.

Well, thanks for everyone's support in figuring this out for me...I decided to go with a different unit.

sanityassassin Posted at 2014-12-21 05:11
Well, thanks for everyone's support is figuring this out for me...I decided to go with a different u ...

what did you get?

Yuneec Q500

sanityassassin Posted at 2014-12-21 04:19
Sure, there is inherent stability in a quadcopter because of the gyroscopic effect of the rotors b ...

Does the phantom even have this ?

The Drone you have bought looks nice BTW  

sanityassassin Posted at 2014-12-21 08:10
Yuneec Q500

Hey let us know how you get on with that - it looks nice and I'm thinking of a new bird.

Does the Phantom have controller gyros? and if so what are they ?

sanityassassin Posted at 2014-12-21 08:10
Yuneec Q500

Did you read this ?

http://wiki.dji.com/en/index.php ... on%2B_Flight_Limits

Choice not bad either, but maybe to fresh ... despite the fact which kind of freedom you mean Good Luck .

Happy Landings

umpa Posted at 2014-12-23 17:40
Does the Phantom have controller gyros? and if so what are they ?

Yes it does have gyros. I'm not sure what kind it has, but they are what keeps it level, right side up,  and not spinning in flight.

jmtw000@gmail.c Posted at 2014-12-24 07:58
Yes it does have gyros. I'm not sure what kind it has, but they are what keeps it level, right sid ...

2 props spinning clockwise and 2 props spinning counter clockwise cancels out the torque and keeps it from spinning.  The flight controller speed controller in conjunction with the GPS keeps it upright.