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Did DJI tell us the truth? I don't think soooo
2618 31 2015-11-13
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AK Eagle
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I would love to hear how many people knew about the bitrate difference between the advance and professional before they purchased there phantoms. For me I had no idea and everything I seen and read from DJI only said the p3p had the 4K camera and the 100W charger charger. Seems like false advertising to me and I'm not to happy about it. I really wish DJI would offer the people that purchased a advanced the opportunity for a trade in on a professional considering on there own web site they say the differences with the exception of the bitrate. I'm not a happy customer right now. Please comment guys and tell me what you think. Thanks
2015-11-13
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BillyRay
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I replied to your post in my other thread, but will also post here.  

I'm right there with you man.  I know for a fact I would have bought a Professional rather than the Advanced if I knew the bitrate in the video feed was that much higher on the Professional.  At the time I made my purchase, the camera upgrade wasn't a huge deal for me, and charging batteries faster wasn't a big concern for me either.   But a far superior video feed to my Ipad is something I would have paid for.  I'm really not sure why DJI would keep a pretty important difference like that hidden or not advertise it like they did the camera and battery charger.  
2015-11-13
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Westside Osprey
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From DJI Website:

Screen Shot 2015-11-14 at 07.53.00.jpg
2015-11-14
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rodger
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Seems pretty clear to me! I would say that DJI disclosed everything about the two.
I have the Pro version and it is fantastic!
2015-11-14
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BillyRay
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rodger Posted at 2015-11-14 09:07
Seems pretty clear to me! I would say that DJI disclosed everything about the two.
I have the Pro  ...

No doubt if you comb through all the fine print, the info is there.  But for someone who is buying a drone for the first time, it would be nice if DJI had made it a little more noticeable for people looking into buying one.  

Prior to buying mine, I read a ton of info and watched the tutorial videos about them.  In the unboxing video, Ty clearly states "Both have all the same features other than the resolution of the camera".   

This was my first drone ever, and tried to do as much comparison and research as I could in comparing the two before buying.  Unfortunately, one very important difference was buried in the spec sheet and easily overlooked by a brand new drone person like myself.  In the end, I will simply have to chalk it up as a lesson learned and know what to look for next time I buy a drone.

2015-11-14
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eaton2001
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Same exact story for me. I watched all the dji promo videos and trusted what they said.
2015-11-14
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Westside Osprey
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I don't even buy a coffee maker w/o checking the specs. It always gives you the watts. I guess being an engineer makes you always check specs not advertising hype.

Would you buy  a car by looking at commercials?

Sometimes, actually most of the time the specs for products are a bit hard to find. But I for one always check them. If I can't find them I don't buy the product.
2015-11-14
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BillyRay
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Westside Osprey Posted at 2015-11-14 11:42
I don't even buy a coffee maker w/o checking the specs. It always gives you the watts. I guess being ...

I wouldn't buy a car solely based on a commercial.  But if a commercial were citing the differences between say a Chevy 1500 and Chevy HD pickups, I doubt they would say "both models have the same features other than the wheel options", when in fact there are other important differences they should make obvious for new/novice buyers looking to get into the truck market.

Like I said, I'm chalking this up as a learning experience.  And to be honest, most of a spec listing between the two models is alot of technical info that goes right over the head of myself and prolly a large percentage of buyers.  And I prolly wouldn't have known what "video bitrate" was even if I had seen that listing prior to buying.  Had that been pointed out by DJI and explained what it meant, hell yes I would have determined it would be worth the extra cost.  But it's my fault for making a huge assumption DJI mentioned differences between the models in their video with quote, "both have the same features other than the resolution of the camera", was a truthful and complete statement.

2015-11-14
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Othan1
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The art of reading has truly been lost, yes?  

When you watch videos, you're watching someone talk to you about their interpretation of what the book says.  To trust someone else without documentation, especially advertising, is silly.  It's all about making money and the devil's always in the details.  

2015-11-14
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BillyRay
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Othan1 Posted at 2015-11-14 15:19
The art of reading has truly been lost, yes?  

When you watch videos, you're watching someone talk  ...


If the art of reading has been lost, then the art of truthfully and effectively advertising the differences of your products must truly be lost as well.  And the difference here is that the videos aren't "of someone else".  They are the videos made by the manufacturer, and hosted on the manufacturers website.  That's hardly "someone else".

And yes, if it's all about making money, then you would think it's a no-brainer to better illustrate the better performance of the Professional model to sell more of those...a know...since they cost more.
2015-11-14
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AK Eagle
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Othan1 Posted at 2015-11-14 11:19
The art of reading has truly been lost, yes?  

When you watch videos, you're watching someone talk  ...

This is coming from a guy that was mad at DJI for his phantom falling 15' and breaking.
2015-11-14
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gregg1r
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The bit rate being higher for the Phantom 3 Professional is two fold. First, you can't capture 4k video and write to the micro SD card the the lower bit rate before a bottle neck is created. Secondly the Professional model has a built in cooling fan due to the extra processing power required to capture and process 4k video.

If you thought that the only difference was a 100 watt charger and just a higher resolution camera for in increased price, you assumed wrong.

I'd imagine that the P3A when capturing video @ 2.7k possibly drops frames due to the through put bottle neck. There were some P3P users that were ticked when the P3A got the upgrade to 2.7k for the as sold 1080P camera.

The thing to remember is to use the highest quality micro SD card possible being a class 10 or higher.

The two units fly exactly the same.  Sorry you're upset, but you sold yourself on the P3A not DJI.
2015-11-15
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droneflyers.com
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I bought the pro - but would be more than happy with the advanced. In fact, I'd suggest most pilots go with the advanced....

So I guess the grass is always greener on the other side.....no matter what you give people, they tend to complain. Consider that no one asked for or expected Lightbridge ($1400 by itself) as a "free" part of a 1K machine in the first place. So the P3 series tends to exceed expectations in most ways.

But, yeah, we can surely find some way to critique it. Those who have buyers remorse can certainly sell their P3A to a friend or elsewhere and get a Pro without taking too much of a hit.

I must admit NOT knowing the difference in the bitrate when I ordered (before the units were even out - in April). But I don't think I would have cared much either. $260 is a major savings - about 20%, so I would expect that there is something less I am getting.
2015-11-15
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BillyRay
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gregg1r Posted at 2015-11-15 12:47
The bit rate being higher for the Phantom 3 Professional is two fold. First, you can't capture 4k vi ...

Gregg thanks for the info.  That's interesting to hear about the frame rates dropping while capturing 2.7k video.  So I'm assuming you are meaning that is affecting the peak bitrate for video feed as well since the way I understand if the P3A has only one processor that performs both?  I understand the P3P has two processors, one for the writing to the card and another that handles the video feed??
2015-11-15
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gregg1r
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BillyRay Posted at 2015-11-15 16:51
Gregg thanks for the info.  That's interesting to hear about the frame rates dropping while captur ...

I don't know about the second processor. Because of the amount of data required to render 4k video, the processor required a fan. I haven't been brave enough to disassemble my gimbal to see if one or two processors reside inside.

It's not like the buffer in most DSLR cameras that allow you to shoot off 15 frames at high rate before they have to be written to memory as the DSLR at 33mp per frame can generate a gigabit file in two seconds.

As for the FPV video, any lag seen there is normally caused by crappy frequency losses. Some here have hacked  non-allocated channels to improve the FPV video. Then there have been some DJI firmware problems along with way that have slowed things down also. Then lastly there have been some less than stellar micro SD drives in the gimbals.

While on this subject, make sure to keep the contacts clean on the micro SD card. Any oxidation on the contacts will interfere with the read/write process and SLOW things down.

IMO, broadcasting video and radio controls on the same 2.4gHZ frequency is a issue. I'd rather use 900mHZ for controls and 2.4gHZ for the FPV video feed.

4K video uses approximately 1 gigabyte of storage space per minute of use. I think this is why the Phantom can only do 3-7 frames of still photo's before requiring a time out.  I would expect seeing frames being dropped from a system that had a slower bit rate.
2015-11-15
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Mad_Angler1
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The difference between the two is the Pro camera is fitted with a Texas Instruments DM365ZCE30 DSP Video encoder, this is an additional encoder added along side the Ambarella A9 Main SOC that handles the video recording to the SD card. this DSP is capable of encoding at 720P 30fps and is believed to deal with the Lightbridge video feed specifically.   As the advance does not have this so the lightbridge feed gets encoded by the Ambrella A9 internal DSP along side the main stream being written to the SD card, this means the A9 is pretty much maxed out and the available data rate to both the SD card and the lightbridge bitrate, this is why the Advance is limited to 2.7K recorcding to the card as its likely the absolute max the A9 can handle while encoding the lightbridge feed at 2mb at the same time.

2015-11-15
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quanthonytrang
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droneflyers.com Posted at 2015-11-16 08:51
I bought the pro - but would be more than happy with the advanced. In fact, I'd suggest most pilots  ...


The light bridge system that the P3A and P3P is nothing like the full $1400 Lightbridge system. The full Lightbridge system is designed for live broadcasting @ true 1080p @ 30fps and therefore I wouldn't try comparing the two. The P3A/P would have what I call a baby/mini-Lightbridge system.
The P3Pro is closest to the full light bridge system as it can carry 10mbs of 720p @ 30fps data. The 720 HDMI feed is usable for goggle FPV, but I would not use it for live broadcast streaming.
The P3Adv cannot do this at all. It does its job as FPV, but it will not use the datastream. If you change it 4/6/10mbs the FPV quality remains the same. This is where users are 'lied' to as it only maxes to 2mbs
2015-11-15
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DJI-Patrick
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Hi , AK Eagle
Thanks for choosing DJI . As you can read in our official website , we post everything to customers except for those confidential . You can check  features and specs on our website .For further details , you can check them in the User Manual and Release Note in the "Downloads" selection . Tutorials are posted both in Official site and Forum . If that still can't satisfy you , you can call DJI support for help .Enjoy your flight !  
2015-11-16
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toddf.perkins
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when the p3a has a max resolution of 2.7k. it does not need a bitrate as high as the p3.
2015-11-16
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rodger
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BillyRay Posted at 2015-11-14 11:51
No doubt if you comb through all the fine print, the info is there.  But for someone who is buying  ...

True and sorry to hear that you are disappointed. I don't know where you bought it. My process is to  compare the specs side by side andI always opt for the one that has the most features. I always ask the Dealer about any differences. As a rule of thumb the model that is the highest priced is that way for a reason such as the specs.

You still have a perfectly great Quad. I don't think that you will be disappointed in your purchase.
2015-11-16
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BillyRay
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rodger Posted at 2015-11-16 10:41
True and sorry to hear that you are disappointed. I don't know where you bought it. My process is  ...

Don't get me wrong, I'm not disappointed in my Phantom.  I love it.  It's my first drone and it's a blast.  And I'm sure it won't be my last.  So this experience I learned something to look at when I am in the market to buy another drone.  You live and you learn.  
2015-11-16
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Othan1
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AK Eagle Posted at 2015-11-14 21:05
This is coming from a guy that was mad at DJI for his phantom falling 15' and breaking.

Yup.  I got over it like a big boy.  

But I'm flattered that you were thinking about me.  Even I had forgotten about that.
2015-11-17
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Sunflux
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I started reading this thread with great interest, but then I realized that people are talking about totally different thing. The OP started talking about "bitrate difference" which is vague, but most logically applied to video recordings. Then the second poster mentions "bitrate difference in the video feed" which is an entirely different point... and then the third poster returns and proves that recording bitrates are documented.

So, first... the Pro does 4k @ 60mbit and the Adv does 2.7k @ 40mbit. Honestly, that difference is inconsequential. 4k video is 8.3 megapixel, and 2.7k video is 4.1 megapixel. You're got 200% the number of pixels to encode, and are giving it 150% the space to do it in. With coding efficiency that's doable, but I'd wager at 1:1 enlargement any improvement is not a result of the higher bitrate, and in that regard the 2.7k video may even be cleaner.

I guess the question then becomes: is there any difference in the bitrate of 1080p recordings between the two models?

The second point - bitrate difference in the FPV feed. This is what's interesting to me, and I certainly haven't seen documented anywhere. Is it true that the Advanced has a max 2mbit wireless feed, and the Pro can go up to 10mbit?
2015-11-17
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quanthonytrang
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Sunflux Posted at 2015-11-18 11:16
I started reading this thread with great interest, but then I realized that people are talking about ...


I'm pretty sure the OP is talking about the FPV feed. 4K vs 2.7K write speed to the SD card is quite obvious and stated online.

Anyways to answer your second question..

http://www.dji.com/products/compare-phantom

Max. Video Bitrate
Phantom 3 Professional:10Mbps
Phantom 3 Advanced:2Mbps

This difference was amended later. it was discovered by users that used the HDMI output said was clearer in the P3P. The 720p@30fps was grainier and had more artefacts in the P3A. It was later discovered that the P3A could not output to 10mbs.

DJI omitted this information.. is omitting lying?

I have a P3A and I'm not too bothered as I prefer assured FPV over quality. But for those who like to output to a secondary higher resolution device, then it might be a problem, especially if they have spent $100 for the HDMI daughter board and 300-400 on goggles.
2015-11-17
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AK Eagle
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Sunflux Posted at 2015-11-17 15:16
I started reading this thread with great interest, but then I realized that people are talking about ...

I was talking about the video feed. I got the hdmi board and now it's pretty much worthless for what I wanted it for.
2015-11-17
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Sunflux
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Ah, thanks for pointing that out. So it is documented [now].

I first researched these when they came out, and I spent a lot of time comparing video quality and deciding the 1080p on the Advanced was good enough for me, and since the other differences were minimal, it made the most sense... but I just started looking again now that Black Friday deals are coming up, and I was kind of waffling back and forth between the Standard and Advanced when I stumbled on this thread... and now (for my purposes) I'm thinking it's the Pro or don't bother!

Incidentally, why did they never add 2.7k video to the Professional? When producing 1080p finished output, I'd love to see 2.7k at 60mbit data rate, as it would have less compression artifacts than 4k, and still allow you to re-frame the shot without quality loss.
2015-11-17
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rodger
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BillyRay Posted at 2015-11-16 19:31
Don't get me wrong, I'm not disappointed in my Phantom.  I love it.  It's my first drone and it's  ...

We all do that Bill, that is life. I have gone off half cocked also many times in my life. It took a knuckle head like me to realize that I must do my home work before I jump. You still have a great Quad. Started out with the least expensive Phantom that I could find, No camera, no frills, I still have it also. I wanted to make sure that I could fly it before I made any huge leaps. My experience was fantastic. I could not believe the technology in the DJI package for such a small amount of money. Fascinating!
2015-11-18
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Mark97564
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That is the bitrate writing to the sd card.. Both the advanced and pro have the same lightbridge system so what it's transferring to the ground is the same.  With a 4K camera the bitrate needs to be higher because there is more data that needs to be written to the se card in a certain amount of time.  Look at the spare parts for the 2 and you will see lightbridge is the same and that the camera and charger are the only differences between the 2 and that I feel was extremely clear to everyone...  Cameras are different so will the bitrate needed to write to the se card..  And seriously quit complaining, you gotta free upgrade from 1080p to 2.7k..  That is a hell of a difference advanced owners got!   I will agree dji pulls some crap now and then but it's mainly not supporting things long enough, or being more worried about new product releases than supporting things that been out for a yr or more and customer service which they have made huge, very huge improvements on...  Now hopefully they decide to save the pic groundstation somehow instead of letting it expire with google earth! And the naza iPad app needs a update reguarding the gimble settings they added to naza and the max angular rate which you can only modify with a pc..  And lightbridge 1 and naza need to work with their go app..  Lightbridge 1 never even gotta actual iPad app release.. Just a hacked one that you will prolly loose if deleted..  

But the camera differences on the p3 was all over every headline about the phantom 3
2015-11-18
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gregetz
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rodger Posted at 2015-11-14 16:07
Seems pretty clear to me! I would say that DJI disclosed everything about the two.
I have the Pro  ...

Yeah I did my homework too. Bought the pro version last week after having checked exactly the same page. And most of the youtube videos regarding P3P. Takes some time but it pays off.

2 extra batteries, backpack, extra props, 64 gig SD card.. updated software, did sensor calibration through DJIGO. 8 hours flying, 160 km, 3 movies...longest flight 6000 m away (with simple windsurfer antenna booster - recommended!).

Signed up for DJI product promotion.

This is my first post here, I am excited. Regards!
2015-11-18
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rodger
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gregetz Posted at 2015-11-18 17:46
Yeah I did my homework too. Bought the pro version last week after having checked exactly the same ...

Welcome aboard! DJI product promotion? I have not heard of that. Sounds like you are all set and ready to fly. Good luck and go slow at first. And, yes, Youtube is a life saver.
2015-11-19
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gregetz
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rodger Posted at 2015-11-19 19:37
Welcome aboard! DJI product promotion? I have not heard of that. Sounds like you are all set and r ...

Thanks Rodger!
2015-11-19
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AK Eagle
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Mark97564 Posted at 2015-11-18 13:21
That is the bitrate writing to the sd card.. Both the advanced and pro have the same lightbridge sys ...

This whole video feed to the devise issue didn't come out till the hdmi board came out.
2015-11-24
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