Please select Into the mobile phone version | Continue to access the computer ver.
Flyaway after landing
2632 29 2014-12-29
Uploading and Loding Picture ...(0/1)
o(^-^)o
elexwiz
lvl.1

United States
Offline

I've had my P2V+ for 4 days now. THANK YOU SANTA! I've been reading the flyaway posts which all descirbe eratic "out of control" behavior in the air. I'm not a novice to model aviation, having flown planes and heli's since 1998. However this is my first REAL flying camera. My very first flight was uneventful. I was getting used to the flight characteristics of this bird the old fashioned way. The throttle snapping back to center took some getting used too. After flying around for 10 minutes or so I brought her in for a landing. She sat there, rotors spinning, while I messed around with the camera via my phone. Then I heard the motors start to sporadically rev up. I looked at the bird just and she jumped about two feet into the air then started to jostle around. I tried taking control but she ended up flying off and hitting one of my patio chairs. No damage was done. I picked her up, turned everything off, and reset. I was able to recreate the circumstances every time. Fly around for a while, land, leave the rotors spinning, and wait for it to jump up. Sure enough, she jumps, every time. The only caveat to this is when starting the rotors, either immediately after a shut down or the first flight of the day, she will sit there spinning at idle until the cows come home. Now I power down the rotors every time I land, period.
Pre flight included a compass calibration in the middle of my large back yard (I did two in succession to make sure I read the lights properly. It would be nice if there were some indication after the nose-down rotation that it's good. There's only an indication if it were bad), correct startup and GPS lock (8 sats) light sequence, home lock fast blinks, etc.

I've got about 15 flights so far without any other problems. I mitigate this by shutting down my rotors after each landing. I'm not sure what was happening or why she took off. I have noticed that each time I'm ready to take off my altitude is always a little off, usually about 2 feet high, sometime as much as 6 feet high. I've checked firmware versions and they're all current (brand new). I wonder if the erroneous altitude is tricking it into thinking its not on the ground yet, but why would it ascend?

I'm posting this just so others are aware. If you're on the ground but your rotors start to rev on their own, get ready for her to take to the air and attack the nearest piece of patio furniture!!
2014-12-29
Use props
jmims
lvl.4
Flight distance : 1243415 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

I'm wondering if the bird thinks that she's still in the air and is (incorrectly) correcting to "hover" in the same spot.
2014-12-29
Use props
ciprianboboc
lvl.3

United States
Offline

The drones are taking over the world. They have a mind of their own and they want to revolt against their operators. The first step is attacking the owner's furniture

But really, the Phantom shouldn't jump by itself. I think it jumps because the way its software deals with incorrect sensor readings. Aside from "you should never do that" free advice from DJI supporters, I think you described a very useful scenario to understand better what's going on with the Phantom software in some corner cases.

This article talks about one farmer keeping his Phantom "on leash", because he doesn't trust it anymore after a flyaway. And yeah, FAA seems to share the same opinion... http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltech ... armer-and-the-drone
We'll see if FAA will come with a list of certified quads allowed to fly in the USA airspace and if Phantoms will make it to that list.
2014-12-29
Use props
b.w.j
Second Officer

Denmark
Offline

Mine do exactly the same, I find out if you land on the same spot as you took off, it don't spin up, but beside the spot >1 meters it spins up.
I wonder if it try to get on the homepoint, because it don't have input from controller > 1 min. and will RTH.

Beside that, I never take off before I see homemark set in app.
2014-12-29
Use props
johnwarr
Captain
Flight distance : 6467 ft
United Kingdom
Offline

Once landed you should always hold the throttle down for 3 seconds to turn off the motors.
Or it will sit there unsure what's going on, trying to keep stabilised and if return to home low battery is enabled it might want to take off and move to its home point, which even if a few feet away, could be a problem if you are not expecting it.
As you say, start up idle will not increase until you give it throttle, so if you want to discharge the battery quickly, this is the way.
2014-12-29
Use props
elexwiz
lvl.1

United States
Offline

ciprianboboc@gm Posted at 2014-12-30 03:54
The drones are taking over the world. They have a mind of their own and they want to revolt against  ...

The only problem with that article is that to regulate "drones" they would have to regulate all RC aircraft or specifically classify what they consider a "drone" to be. In reality, we fly quadcopters , not drones. That farmer was WAY ABOVE the FAA 400' limit on RC aircraft. Shame on him. If they want to put regulations on commercial quadcopter users, require licensing, and allow them to exceed the 400' mark then so be it, but leave the hobbyists alone.
2014-12-29
Use props
elexwiz
lvl.1

United States
Offline

b.w.j@joergense Posted at 2014-12-30 03:57
Mine do exactly the same, I find out if you land on the same spot as you took off, it don't spin up, ...

I think you hit the nail on the head. No controller input combined with her thinking she's still off the ground. Good call!
2014-12-29
Use props
droneflyers.com
First Officer
Flight distance : 60709 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

Make sure you change to NAZAM mode (IOC) using the assistant - if you then switch to ATTI mode after you land you should be OK...or, just turn the motors off.

My thinking is that messing around with the phone just may cause a "RTH" signal to be sent to the bird......isn't  that option somewhere in the DJI app? I know it's in the ground control, but it may accidentally get sent anyway.....

Since you are an experienced heli pilot you know that you can never be too safe. The complexity of the software and hardware in these things can create some problems...so always try to rely on your safety skills as opposed to the software/hardware always acting properly.

Since you mentioned "patio" this also may indicate near a building so GPS can be iffy. Again, switching to ATTI mode should solve that also. In fact, flying most of the time in ATTI mode is fine as long as the winds are super strong. It's the best method to fly when you are close to the ground and there are obstructions around.
As far as the accuracy of altitude, that's to be expected....GPS can easily be a couple meters off...

For the benefit of others reading this in the future - RTH and features like that are not designed to land the copter in one's small yard next to the home surrounded by tree (not saying the OP has this situation, just saying....). It's for use when you are flying in large unobstructed areas. Not to say it won't work this way for some - but it's asking for trouble. In over a year of flying Phantoms I've never used RTH and I don't intend to....until and unless I can pick up some "drone insurance" and therefore feel comfortable flying a bit further afield.
2014-12-29
Use props
ciprianboboc
lvl.3

United States
Offline

elexwiz@gmail.c Posted at 2014-12-30 04:32
The only problem with that article is that to regulate "drones" they would have to regulate all RC ...

I'm with you on the "leave the hobbyists alone" statement.
Until FAA comes with some regulations, I think this time can be used for making the quads more reliable and not necessary more complicated (and possibly more unreliable). I'll wait and see how the future will look like after the release of DJI Inspire and Parrot Bebop. For now, Phantoms are considered the best quads and they are used by many as reference.
Safety is number one concern for FAA and any quad (UAV) manufacturer should take into account this factor (reliability) if they want to continue doing business inside the US long term.
2014-12-29
Use props
elexwiz
lvl.1

United States
Offline

droneflyers.com Posted at 2014-12-30 04:39
Make sure you change to NAZAM mode (IOC) using the assistant - if you then switch to ATTI mode after ...

Good points! This is my first "intelligent" aircraft and I assumed it would sit there until I was ready to take off again. None of my heli's ever became self-aware! Reading through the forums points out many  software quirks and idiosyncrasies I've never considered. Thank you!
2014-12-29
Use props
Gerry1124
Captain

United States
Offline

Also, if you land and shut off the Phantoms motors, do not shut off the transmitter first with the Phantom still powered on.  That will trigger a RTH and the Phantom will start and go to altitude you have set to RTH.  It happened to me once.  Now before I turn off anything, I power down the Phantom first.  I did recover control by toggling the S! switch down and back up and landed.
2014-12-29
Use props
elexwiz
lvl.1

United States
Offline

Gerry1124 Posted at 2014-12-30 05:05
Also, if you land and shut off the Phantoms motors, do not shut off the transmitter first with the P ...

Thank you! Didn't consider that. I've always landed, shut down the engine, then turned off my transmitter while waiting for the rotor to spin down. I didn't realize the P2V+ motors would restart once they were turned off. Again, thank you.
2014-12-29
Use props
Gerry1124
Captain

United States
Offline

elexwiz@gmail.c Posted at 2014-12-30 05:16
Thank you! Didn't consider that. I've always landed, shut down the engine, then turned off my tran ...

When you shut off the transmitter first like I did, it will trigger a huge panic attack first.   almost had a heart attack right there on the spot.
2014-12-29
Use props
rod
First Officer

New Zealand
Offline

elexwiz@gmail.c Posted at 2014-12-30 04:59
Good points! This is my first "intelligent" aircraft and I assumed it would sit there until I was  ...

Hi, mine has always done that.  A temporary landing and leaving the motors idling results in motors slowly increasing rpm and wanting to lift, but not with enough revs  so it would tip if I allowed it to. No other inputs were going on at the time, so a heavy chunk of throttle would ensure a lift was accomplished, or I would close down completely with the left stick.   Weird though!.
2014-12-29
Use props
elexwiz
lvl.1

United States
Offline

No wonder people have been experiencing so many problems. Sure I have lots of flight experience but adding navigation and "intelligent" technology to the aircraft really changes things. I feel like a noob! LOL
2014-12-29
Use props
droneflyers.com
First Officer
Flight distance : 60709 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

elexwiz@gmail.c Posted at 2014-12-30 05:19
No wonder people have been experiencing so many problems. Sure I have lots of flight experience but  ...

I wrote this a year ago for the p1, but notice #2 in the list!
These little things are big things and if you, as a experienced R/C guy, are flying without knowing all of them...you can only imagine what the folks here who opened their first ever r/c toy (a Vision+) at Xmas are doing! My mission is to save as many of their P2's from self destruction as possible!

1. As stated in the manual, calibrate the compass before attempting any flight.
2. Turn things on in the order stated - that is, the receiver first before you connect the battery.
3. Fly in an open area and make sure you have all GPS signals (quick flashing greens) before taking off.
4. Make certain both select switches are UP - that's GPS mode and standard flying.
5. Check prop nuts - if you have the newer props with built-in hubs, you are probably OK.
6. Use prop guards - the Phantom does not take off and land perfectly - it's quite normal for it to lean over in both cases, and without prop guards you may ruin a prop, etc.
7. Use a audio alarm connected to the battery balance - or else use a phone timer or similar to time the flight - if your DJI is fairly light (stock), you should start thinking about landing after 7-8 minutes of flight. If you have additional weight on it, it will be sooner.
8. Be prudent with your first few flights - understand flight times, the effects of wind, etc without letting it get too far.
9. Do not depend on or deploy RTH (Return to Home) unless there are no other options.
2014-12-29
Use props
eastwell1
lvl.2

United Kingdom
Offline

reading all these different threads to try and establish why my P2V+ decided to do its own thing and commite suicide (see thread lost at sea) i am coming to the conclusion that maybe its a software problem when updating software could there be a dormant virus affecting the software or something similar as these quads do rely heavily on computers for updating etc.  
2014-12-30
Use props
warren
lvl.1
Flight distance : 1889803 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

johnwarr@live.c Posted at 2014-12-30 04:01
Once landed you should always hold the throttle down for 3 seconds to turn off the motors.
Or it wil ...

I was trying to drain the last of my battery this way...PV2+ on ground at idle after landing it following the 'low battery warning'.  A few moments later the rotors revved up and it took off on its own for RTH mode which thankfully I was there to intercept....
2014-12-30
Use props
Daninho
Second Officer

Germany
Offline

I would consider that as normal because my P2 from december 2013 did that as well but why would anybody do this? When i land i always power off the motors. Why you should leave your phantom on the ground with spinning props?
2014-12-30
Use props
allbritt
lvl.3

United States
Offline

These quads are going to link up and become the foundation for Skynet.
2014-12-30
Use props
elexwiz
lvl.1

United States
Offline

First on their list is the extermination of all patio furniture.
2014-12-30
Use props
elexwiz
lvl.1

United States
Offline

Daninho Posted at 2014-12-30 22:24
I would consider that as normal because my P2 from december 2013 did that as well but why would anyb ...

I did it because I'm used to landing for a minute then taking off again. I'm not used to letting an aircraft hover on its own while focusing on something else so I landed. Since discovering that she gets bored and would rather fly on her own, I shut down the rotors every time I land.
2014-12-30
Use props
ciprianboboc
lvl.3

United States
Offline

elexwiz@gmail.c Posted at 2014-12-30 22:58
First on their list is the extermination of all patio furniture.

I've tried to repro this quad jump +  return to home (when home point is not set).

Here's my starting procedure:
http://youtu.be/qGWpmcED1JM

At 0:41 mark, my Phantom is flashing green as if it was recording the home point and it's ready to fly. Am I wrong? Is that green flashing meaning something else?

The problem is that there were 4 satellites coverage at that point. DJI SDK is reporting after that home point at -180, -180 and I read that as no home point set yet. I double checked that the dynamic home point setting is off.

Then, I repeat the procedure described in this thread. I start the motors, I "fly and land" (I move the drone when the motors are moving). I had no propellers for this test because I don't want my furniture or electronics attacked by the drone
Then, after I leave the drone on the table and activate RTH, I can see the yellow flashes for 10 seconds or so and then I can "hear" the jump: motors are increasing power. Cool enough, but I wonder where's "home" now for my Phantom? Is DJI SDK wrong in reporting home as -180, -180 or the flight software has a problem here?
I really don't understand this RTH logic... Maybe DJI can document it a bit better and be more conservative on when the software takes control of the Phantom on the user's behalf.
2014-12-30
Use props
b.w.j
Second Officer

Denmark
Offline

Strange startup sound your bird has, 3 beeps missing after startup sound.
2014-12-30
Use props
droneflyers.com
First Officer
Flight distance : 60709 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

ciprianboboc@gm Posted at 2014-12-31 02:29
I've tried to repro this quad jump +  return to home (when home point is not set).

Here's my star ...

I understand your point!

At the same time, they clearly say not to use RTH in a experimental or daily fashion and only to use GPS (which is also RTH) in large unobstructed areas.

Maybe they should simply not allow the Phantoms to fly at all without sat. lock unless the user signs a waiver in the software and pushes some buttons to assure that they understand the consequences?

Or, they could simply make it so it didn't even try in cases of low GPS signal....the problem there is that this is a dynamic situation...satellites come and go, so the quad may have 4 this second, but 6 of them a few seconds later.

No doubt it's GPS and false RTH (same thing) causing a lot of problems here. And Phantom is not alone - the new Parrot BeBop flies away almost instantly if not probably connected to GPS (we know - we are currently testing one and I have a flight engineer doing the testing!)...

Maybe DJI should stop with the "For everyone" and change it to "For Hobbyists", indicating that a certain level of skill and understanding is needed to actually keep the things from being lost and crashed...

I've always been a "rule follower" - my wife yells at me because I never try to beat the system! I guess that's why, when I read my P1 manual and it said never test RTH, I have not! They don't say the same thing in the P2 manuals, but then again they don't mention trying or testing it.

It's a false sense of security IMHO...almost no matter what. Even if they do something like you mention and make it simply land, turn off or hover at a GPS failure, the folks flying them very far are going to lose them just as badly.

The biggest mistake they made, IMHO, was making the more complicated flight mode (GPS only) as the default....so the very useful home lock and ATTI are not available to the beginner. I've talked to pilots who have flown for a year and consider themselves experienced  - yet still don't know what ATTI and HOME LOCK are!

As one experienced fella said - the most dangerous thing in that box is the Quick Start Guide!
Instead there should be a very large notice about how you should have an experience pilot help you - or maybe DJI should create online courseware and you should pass it before you get the "key" to flight.

Every little bit helps. The problem is that - even if all this stuff was as perfect as currently possible - it seems that people are tempted to fiddle around too much.

It will be interesting to look at the new Parrot and the new Yanuuc (DJI competitor) and see if they do better or worse. So far, Parrot is doing much worse....it doesn't know when it fails so it just takes off if the pilot tries to fly it out of the box or does something else crazy like indoor calibration.
2014-12-30
Use props
rod
First Officer

New Zealand
Offline

Daninho Posted at 2014-12-30 22:24
I would consider that as normal because my P2 from december 2013 did that as well but why would anyb ...

The answer is probably 42
2014-12-30
Use props
Daninho
Second Officer

Germany
Offline


what do you mean?
2014-12-30
Use props
rod
First Officer

New Zealand
Offline


If you are not familiar with hitchhikers guide to the galaxy  it will mean nothing even if I explain it.
2014-12-30
Use props
ciprianboboc
lvl.3

United States
Offline

droneflyers.com Posted at 2014-12-31 03:22
I understand your point!

At the same time, they clearly say not to use RTH in a experimental or d ...

Thanks, Craig.
One of the rule I really want to follow on this hobby is to know and understand my quad.
It's a difference to experiment with propellers on vs off. And it really depends on the experiment... I've tried different scenarios (in an open space, large park, with nobody around) just to be prepared for the unexpected. In the future I plan to take some videos next to the shoreline and, at that moment, I want to be as prepared and as conservative as possible.

I understand and respect "follow the rules approach". But I also respect the tendency of other people to question and even challenge rules (made by humans) when the rules don't make sense.

I can't talk about Parrot Bebop. I can understand that others have their own challenges, as well.
I bought my P2V+ because its range and the fact that it takes the wind pretty well. Overall, it seems like a very good drone, maybe the best at the end of November (excluding Bebop or Inspire quads which they're just coming on market).

Regarding potential GPS issues. I think some of them can be mitigated.
Here's an example. I got once a low battery warning and a message telling me that return to home is going to be initiated. The messsage had a cancel button, which I actually used (the quad was close to me and it made more sense for me to land it myself opposed to see it going up to 220 feet, which is my RTH altitude). This is a very good user experience: the software told me what it plans to do and gave me the option to decide.

Here are 2 quick suggestions:
- if the user takes off without the home set being set, then the software could tell the user (home lock not set) and eventually use dynamic home lock. Maybe I miss something, but I haven't seen an indicator in the Vision app that the homelock is not set
- the software has the potential to detect GPS reading errors and RTH should not be triggered unless the user is informed about it (and never kick RTH but only after a 10 seconds wait with yellow flashes)

I agree that the "quick start" can bring users in trouble... When I bought my quad, I got a link from my seller (B&H Photo) with some "essential video tutorials" (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/ho ... /3715721099001.html).
They were quite helpful. Maybe DJI should create similar videos by themselves (I know they had, last time when I checked, one video tutorial referenced in the quick start)
2014-12-30
Use props
renebertschi.gm
lvl.2
Flight distance : 620620 ft
Canada
Offline

2015-1-30 00:23




I was one of the victims that experienced a flyaway, but the damage was minimal, but it started an inquiry in to what can cause this phenomena? So the first thing I did was to contact DJI servise and gave them two articles about interference with 5 to 5.8 GGz and 2.4 GHz of the radio spectrum frequency.
I received the following (see below)
Dear Rene,
Thank you for contacting DJI. The best way to prevent interference is to make sure that everything is calibrated and that the firmware is updated properly. Also be cognizant of your surrounding. If you are near an area that has a Wi-Fi, then you have to make the determination on whether it is a good idea to fly the unit or not as these things can cause interference. I hope that helps.
DJI Customer Service North America.

This was not what I was looking for, or expected from such a top tier company?

Avoiding Interference in the 2.4-GHz ISM Band.
http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1273359

and

Avoid interference between 5 GHz Wi-Fi and 5.8 GHz cordless phones.
http://bradsfavorite.com/avoid-i ... ghz-cordless-phones

I hope this will shed some light on the subject.

Rene
2015-1-29
Use props
Advanced
You need to log in before you can reply Login | Register now

Credit Rules