DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-1-13 17:47
Look at it this way, DJI is now giving you more freedom by giving you the ultimate authority to fl ...

Why are you repeating something false ?   What you write would be true if red zones were ZERO.
Now the situation is not this, in Italy almost one hundred of red zones here
http://www.dji.com/flysafe/geo-system/unlock
while here
http://www.dji.com/flysafe/no-fly
the red zones were much less (big airports ONLY). A clear worsening.

Can someone clarify something for me?  I have been keeping up to date with this thread and am now confused.  So, as of right now, if i update my iOS app to 2.5 i will not have to deal with this unlocking feature?

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-1-13 10:37
It may be an inconvenience in the BETA firmware to unlock a location where you want to fly where y ...

OR be happy flying a 3DR or somebody else.  I think you're (and DJI) are missing the point.  You innovate and evolve to meet your customers wants and needs, and to keep pace with your competition.   If you don't listen to, or ignore what your customer is asking for they are not going to just keep what they got?  They are going to go to the competition.  NOBODY is asking for or wants GEO, and the majority of your competition is in-line this.  Why DJI feels that they are above listening to their customer is part of what will be their demise.  Again just like blackberry.  Just by the way this forum blew up over the last couple of days should tell you that you need to change course on this.  Sorry but P2 was great, time to move on.  P3 looks great, but based on this one feature there is better out there.  

aksummit Posted at 2016-1-12 19:30
Here are the new areas that are active if you have DJI Go App 2.5. The only way to get my aircraft ...

Holy smokes Batman...... I have the most current version on IOS and it looks nothing like that. As proved by my screen shot

If it did look that way I'd be ditching an inside 1 and phantom 3......

What's are you using.... Android?

JD2092 Posted at 2016-1-14 00:58
Can someone clarify something for me?  I have been keeping up to date with this thread and am now co ...

Correct, you do not have the authorization zones in 2.5. The IOS Beta 2.4.4 uses the authorization zones.
There was a glitch and the in 2.5 it put the authorization zones in there and they were red zones. That issue was fixed yesterday.
If you have the issue,here's the fix
1.Mobile device need connecting to Internet.
2.Drones on and should be on P-GPS mode, stay in open area with good GPS signal.
3. Mobile device need connecting to the drone.

Wait for 1-5 min, and try to reboot the App to check.

gary.ok@hotmail Posted at 2016-1-14 01:44
OR be happy flying a 3DR or somebody else.  I think you're (and DJI) are missing the point.  You i ...

Not speaking as a DJI employee,but as a consumer. I have had most of what's out there and I personally feel the best bang for your money you cannot beat DJI.
And if the consumer may have to eventually deal with unlocking authorization zones and decide on a different manufacture, I think they'd still be happier with DJI.
But that's just my opinion. And with the new products to come, I don't think anyone can touch DJI. Again, just my opinion.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-1-13 07:03
I don't how the redundancy would be built in BUT if I was a commercial operator it would simply be ...

I think he was referring to a server glitch, like that that just happened last night....under the proposed system , even if you can have all the back up DJI manufactured drones you want and if DJIs servers are down...none will fly.
No offense however  maybe you shouldn't preach commercial operations to commercial operators.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-1-13 09:18
Not speaking as a DJI employee,but as a consumer. I have had most of what's out there and I person ...

Yeah.... That's exactly what blackberry said.

Davphys Posted at 2016-1-13 12:37
Who is "Blackberry"?

Blackberry is the hockey puck of a cell phone that sits on my desk and never moves because they are useless.  Once upon a time they were DJI.  Nobody could touch them.  Then they started a trend where they were not listening to the market place and now people have to ask "who is blackberry"  Five years from now the questions might be "who is DJI?"  Blackberry also defended their dumb moves all the way to the bottom.  So sorry Ken but I can't agree that you can't beat DJI.  There are several that do, and more that will.  Business 101 never underestimate your competition.  Business 102 listen to your customers.  Ditch GEO or we will ditch DJI.  I just did.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-1-13 10:18
Not speaking as a DJI employee,but as a consumer. I have had most of what's out there and I person ...

The best technology in the world does me zero good if it will not get off the ground.  I fly in remote desert locations, usually as part of multi day camping trips almost every weekend during the season.  My typical stay is several days, including leaving right after work and arriving in camp late.

Your new system has 'yellow' zones of five miles around remote dirt strips in the desert with no tower, and no authority to contact.  They are literally desert strips that are occasionally used (very rarely) by recreational pilots out playing around.  There is no legal reason to not be flying within five miles of these, as it is not a controlled air space, nor towered, nor even fully maintained.  It is fly  at your own risk territory.

As you can guess, there is zero cell signal out there.  Under your current 'plan' I will not be able to fly out of my campsite by the final day of my trip at best, and that is assuming I pre-authorize all of these first, and fire up everything to upload this during my day at work, or do it the night before and half my trip I will not be able to fly.

The best technology in the world does not do me any good if I can not use it.  You easily could just have it pop a warning up on yellow zones, have it stay there a minute, then be dismissed.  You are enforcing rules that are more strict than the FAA for no good reason.  If this does not change I will likely have to sell this platform to someone else who can use it, and buy a competitor.  I can not have a device that relies on network communication when almost everything I do has none.  These are the safest places to fly, and ironically, that is where we will be the most impacted.

I think you have overestimated exactly how advanced your devices are...

AlaskanTides Posted at 2016-1-14 02:21
I think he was referring to a server glitch, like that that just happened last night....under the  ...

I'm a DJI employee but also a commercial operator with my own 333 and also been a private pilot for over 20 years.
I started flying DJI stuff many years ago and and really liked them. Were their problems, yes, customer service problems, yes.
Is DJI way better now then before, heck yes. and they continue to get better in every aspect of their business. For the people that want to be left alone and have total unrestricted drones, it's not going to happen with current DJI stuff. If people are hot happy with that, they'll go buy something that doesn't have a restriction (Wookong, A2, and others) or a different manufacture all together.
In the end, I think DJI will still be on top. But I don't have a crystal ball so we'll see.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-1-13 06:58
I( think if you are planning a camping trip in the middle of no where you would already know if yo ...

Look at a a cell service map of Alaska.  99.87% (hey, I made that up) of the land area has no cell phone coverage.  In emergencies we either get our asses out by ourselves, use satellite phones or PLB (Personal Locator Beacons).  Of those choices, only one (the sat phone) even allows for any sort of Internet connectivity.  Which I don't have switched on because it would cost about as much as a Phantom for a year's service.

Cell phone reception for me drops out about a mile from my house.  Over the first ridge and poof, no signal.

So, yeah, the world is NOT covered by cell phone signals, no matter what Verizon or ATT wants you think.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-1-13 09:55
I'm a DJI employee but also a commercial operator with my own 333 and also been a private pilot fo ...

I never asked for you're qualifications ....Frankly I'm not impressed.  

You mentioned pre-flight checklist,and you did so in a way ...as a  means of transferring DJI's incompetent  system onto the pilots shoulder's  

Everything in a preflight checklist is to ensure that everything that is under a pilots control is accounted far as well as initiated safely and in the appropriate sequence.

In this situation The pilot has no control over DJI's Servers whatsoever.....Thus preflight checklist and pre-flight planning are mute points. That is what the OP was speaking of.

I don't blame you for this confusion ...however you guys repeat untrue statements again and again.. Such as saying its instantly unlocked over and over and over,  while ignoring the fact that this requires internet or cellular access.... Its obvious that information is being withheld as deliberate oversight.

All we are asking is that you listen to the customers and address these concerns.

If a photographer or free lance journalist is grounded due to DJI that cost money.......

I promise (like 90 % of folks here)  if you cost me money there better be a darn good explantion or you're product is going in the Trash... When it comes to my bank account good intentions or not good enough.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-1-13 13:18
Not speaking as a DJI employee,but as a consumer. I have had most of what's out there and I person ...

Dont bet on it. I've been researching a purchase and had it narrowed down to a DJI Advanved or a Parrot Bebop. I was all set to buy the DJI until I found this thread.

I liked the design of the Parrot better but the DJI everywhere else.  This has put me back at square one. I'm now leaning the other way.

I had read that Parrot had far better customer service and this kind of reinforces that.

Brendan Schulma Posted at 2016-1-2 12:47
This is why we are doing a beta.  Send your feedback so we can improve the user experience while a ...

Hi Brendan,
thought your video on this subject was awesome. One thing I can't get my head around though is why DJI would want to introduce these massive restrictions in the use of their products in the complete absence of any legal requirement to do so?
Cheers
Mike

I responded to the server glitch and how to cure it on v1.6.0.  Ken it trying to assist you as users.  There is no reason to beat up on him.  You can request via the web up to 30 3 day exemptions.  That is 90 days.  Using the current App, v2.5.0 you cannot request any exemptions.  If you have a NFZ, that is it.  With Geo fencing, you have options.  It is your choice to use them or not.  

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-1-13 11:47
Look at it this way, DJI is now giving you more freedom by giving you the ultimate authority to fl ...

Thanks again Ken. I was under the impression from 2 days ago that geofencing was just inserted in DJI GO app 2.5 but you are saying its still beta. So I'm ok with beta. Hope DJI can figure out the right balance of responsibility/flexibility. Flying over military bases should not be flexible.

A reasonable approach inside the red zones would be to increase progressively the height limits, like an inverted cone as it was before. It won't be sooner than 6-12 months from today, till EU and US regulations force DJI to be more strict. I cannot understand why this GEO project is so badly implemented and why such a rush to put it out globally, when its very infrastructure seems to be extremely crippled, better not to speak about its current testing ... I get bored with the song of one ring to rule them, the refrain of poor excuses for its bad execution and the fear mongering of why has to be forced on us without any legal authority on behalf of DJI. And I don't even dare to try the beta 1.7, after reading how ugly ended for some users (example: http://forum.dji.com/thread-39673-1-1.html).  As things are evolving now: we are all in the first list of suspects, even if a bird hits an airplane, with the fear of our drones to be confiscated by the authorities for indefinite time, or praying for servers not to crash or the DJI Go app to unlock successfully ... It is quite bizarre! And giving our personal data to a third party, which refers in their terms and services, that they can do whatever they like with our names, phone numbers and calls, etc, that's over the top!

I urge the creators of GEO to take a look at the 6.5. Annex V — Data protection and privacy of the link below, because the terms of services of their third party is quite screwed compared with the EU regulations and the upcoming legislations. People won't only stop buying DJI products, but thousands of European customers will have a very powerful legal leverage to sue DJI regarding the violation of their private data from this third party.

Introduction of a regulatory framework for the operation of unmanned aircraft

https://easa.europa.eu/system/fi ... nned%20aircraft.pdf

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-1-13 11:30
If you are talking about now having a bunch of no-fly zones in the 2.5 app, it was a glitch. and f ...

Well, I was talking about more than that from past releases, but I will just leave it.

And I know that you are trying to do damage control probably without much guidance or information from headquarters.


Still, I agree with others that it is not as simple as you are now able to fly in places that you could not before. This is only partially true. When all of those seemingly arbitrary and often incorrect yellow zones go live you cannot fly as easily in those places that you could before. These yellow zones often have no basis in governmental laws, regulations or oversight. It's appears to be DJI out alone on making decisions on what should be an authorization zone.

Further it was forced upon everyone (server glitch aside) without notice. This was the major change in 2.5 and it was not mentioned in the release notes.

DJI Ken,

I can not read through all of the fighting.  I need a solution. Can you tell me where I can find an accurate map that shows where I can and cannot fly.
I just looked at the map on the flysafe page, there are no "No Fly Zones" where I tried to take off but I kept getting the "Your in a No Fly Zone" message and was unable to fly.
I need a resolution to this ASAP as it is about to interfere with my business.  What other options do I have, can I roll back the app? Firmware? etc... NEED a solution now.
Thank you.

aopisa Posted at 2016-1-14 05:09
Well, I was talking about more than that from past releases, but I will just leave it.

And I know  ...

it was not forced (server glitch aside)
The Geo Beta is 2.4.4 and you have to update your aircraft to 1.7 and you are totally free to update to the beta and try it out or just stay on 2.5 if you din't want to try it out.
And, maybe the yellow zones will be more defined in a official firmware release. This BETA firmware is for people to test out only, it doesn't mean all the yellow zone borders are going to remain what you see.

gcvisel Posted at 2016-1-1 09:41
How do I unlock a small grass strip airport in Middle-of-Nowhere, USA?  It shows as a green warning  ...

I checked the area by my farm and was surprised that a 40 acre privately owned prairie is marked in green?  No aircraft, no landing strip, nothing around it for a mile+.  In fact, its owned by the Missouri Prarie Foundation - a conservation group.

Davphys Posted at 2016-1-14 02:51
What are you going with if not DJI? Are you just going with Hubsan for a while? ;)

Hey Davphys

Hubsan??.......Well, You never know!   They May Turn out to be World Leaders Tomorrow!

Look at where Apple was 1991-97 : Apple Were the Hubsan of the computing world! ..During that time Apple produced a number of confusing products that were unsuccessful, and almost went Bust, in 1997, after record 3 year lows and Crippling losses! ( check out their history on Wikipedia)

The fact is that the market, in a compatitive envirnoment, can change almost instantaneously, Nokia is another good example. Once the leader in Mobile phones, they became a too Arrogent and pushed forward to the Simbian OS that nobody wanted. Nokia is virtually Non existent today!

DJI seem to be doing the same "Arrogent" thing by pushing Geofencing that is not even mandated by regulators or law, and nobody wants it!     - what do you think is going to happen if it's not sorted quickly!

The Fact is:   Customers TODAY are ALREADY Returning Their DJI purchases!...., and/or looking at other products.

- DJI Is introducing MASSIVE Restrictions into using their product, without any Legal mandate to do it or requirement from customers - in essence shooting themselves in both knees!

- DJI have to get Geofence right, it's a mess right now! And needs to be completely re-designed from a user perspective. And NOT what DJI "Thinks" is required.


Whilst I have some confidence that Brandon "will" address some key issues, it's going to take a lot more then mere conversations to Put things Right!     


I'm Praying that Brendan and the Management team at DJI Fix it!...... QUCKLY!
......................  Otherwise They are going o be out of Jobs themselves!!

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-1-13 11:55
The registration number only helps but would not identify the owner if they were to get a photo op ...

"The registration number only helps but would not identify the owner if they were to get a photo op of a landing aircraft then flew home.
In Beta when that person unlocked that zone and an incident like that happened, now they can find the person who took the photo."

Ken - I'm not looking to give you a hard time, but you are posting conflicting responses on this issue.

Originally, you stated something like the above. When I questioned it, you implied I misunderstood and revised the claim to read only law enforcement/FAA would have access to drone owner's identity in event of a collision.

Which is it?

From what you wrote originally, and again in the quote above... there is a non-incident. A pilot (or someone at the airport) CLAIMS they see something... maybe a seagull, maybe a drone, maybe nothing. It could very well be a non-incident.

What happens next? A report is filed and any DJI owner who happened to be authorized for that area in that timeframe gets a visit from the FBI or FAA? (Must be since your previous post indicated that only official agencies would receive that identifying data). What is the process for getting that data? Do they simply need to ask? Or will a proper warrant be required?

Remember that in your example, someone is possibly breaking the rules and flying where they shouldn't. However, from the side of the complainant, it is entirely possible that no one was flying there at all, or a non-DJI owner was breaking the rules. It still seems like DJI owners are at a significant disadvantage here.

There are two RC airstrips in my area, both near busy airports. Let's just say I authorize and fly at those fields and follow all the rules. My one Phantom is now on the FAA/FBI radar and NONE of the other non-DJI flying machines at these fields are. That makes me the only one who is forced to prove my innocence in the event of a possible "sighting."

gary.ok@hotmail Posted at 2016-1-13 13:48
Blackberry is the hockey puck of a cell phone that sits on my desk and never moves because they are ...

Best answer! I feel the same way. Thanks for speaking for so many of us.

Can someone spell it all out, is it a glitch? should I delete the app and reload it? Is this the way it is from now on?
I just purchased my 3rd Phantom 3 Pro and installed the current app 2.5.0.  The No Fly Zones are ridiculous! is this a glitch? Can someone provide a link to download the previous app? would that work?

Thanks

jrm11 Posted at 2016-1-14 06:58
"The registration number only helps but would not identify the owner if they were to get a photo op ...

I don't think I deviated from that answer and if it seemed like I did than I'm sorry.
I know the verification process is done through a third party and DJI does not keep that data.
If an incident happened it would probably take a Subpoena to get information from the 3rd party to find out who was in violation.
A random person wouldn't be able to say someone flew over my house and I need the name of the person that it was.

Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2016-1-13 13:47
I responded to the server glitch and how to cure it on v1.6.0.  Ken it trying to assist you as users ...

Taho Ed,
Can you please start from the beginning and explain what is going on with the geofencing?
You mentioned something about how to "cure it" in v1.6.0. What does that mean?
I just got this P3Pro today and it has firmware 1.4.10 and I installed the 2.5.0 App on ipad mini2.
I check the website flysafe and the map is totaly different than the no fly zones that show up on the Go app. Which one of these maps should be showing up on the Go app?
Thank you for explaining.

I think DJI got great pressure either by C or U government and they didn't had time to think about in details. Actually the geo fencing control idea is good but DJI use a wrong presentation.

The idea should represent like this-

For safety and preventing breaking the regulations from customers point of view, DJI should provide a worldwide flight zone index forecasting system. This index will update each 3 days for each zone. Pilots are required to read this forecast by registering to this zone. Pilots can apply all zones in an area (or state) by circling them on the map, this can be done on-the-fly or pre-planning. If the pilot fail to do so, the engine will not start in the critical zone....

Also, the system is now in beta test and require volunteers to join. It will first roll-out in US and/or China, so be quick....

I just tried the "cure" again and it seems to have fixed the over sized NFZs that came in with 2.5.0 App.
Make sure to have auto updates turned on in your settings first.

cgl817@gmail.co Posted at 2016-1-14 13:45
I just tried the "cure" again and it seems to have fixed the over sized NFZs that came in with 2.5.0 ...

What is the cure of which you speak?

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-1-13 10:55
The registration number only helps but would not identify the owner if they were to get a photo op ...

It just seems like this system could have false positives.  Say 2 P3's are flying one with old firmware and not reporting and other with new and following proper rules.   

It seems like if the one with old firmware was not following rules and flying "stupid" for lack of better term it would send them looking at the person who updated and have a false positive of it being them.

Is there any prevention to prevent false positives?

perseas Posted at 2016-1-13 21:30
A reasonable approach inside the red zones would be to increase progressively the height limits, lik ...

Great find about the EU regulatory framework! I think DJI's current approach steps on many legal toes. The thought about Geofencing, hindering drones flying into restricted airspace is good. But the implementation is clearly not well thought over, and the approach to the customers is wrong.

Me, I have to follow the rules in my country. Now DJI (a private moneymaking company) forces us to follow their rules, (and maps that are not matching with the reality). There are so many more things to think of when it comes to DJI's approach. How about:

* Does the data stored in DJI's servers comply to other countries directives?
* How is the data used? I saw a post a page of two back, and he asked about what happens if he applies for flying in a certain place, but changes his mind. Then someone else flies at the same time and causes an incident? Will the data be used for tracking, and in this case it it a high probability that the wrong person is accused? It could be avoided if flight data is stored on DJI's servers, but then again, does it comply to the laws?
* As mentioned, every pilots first responsibility is to follow the laws in the country they will fly. Yesterday it was problems with DJI's software that hindered people to fly. If I'm on a job, and flying where I'm granted access by my countrys authorities, and DJI's servers break down and I can't fly and thus loose the job. Who will pay for that? DJI?
* Maps/reality don't match, which give this Geofencing a false sense of security. Reading a page or two back, there was a person who mentioned there was a helipad reserved for medic helicopters that seldom landed there. Apparently this was a DJI zone. In my town we also have a helipad at the hospital, and that helicopter flies more or less every day, sometimes a couple of times per day. For that helipad there is no restrictions.

DJI, please look at Perseus link for the EU regulatory framework. Again, the idea of Geofencing is good, but the rules and laws of different countries and their handling of the airspace must come first, not a commercial drone makers idea of solution. If DJI can adjust everything in their Geo solution so it fit every countries laws and real airspace maps, that is fine, I'll be happy.

Thank you do Tim, Patrick, Dave, Amy, Ken and everyone else in support for staying here, trying to answer our questions.

cgl817@gmail.co Posted at 2016-1-13 18:45
I just tried the "cure" again and it seems to have fixed the over sized NFZs that came in with 2.5.0 ...

You should probably turn the auto update off again. You don't want to upgrade to the next version until it's clear they've resolved the geofencing in an acceptable way!