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Posibility for Magic Lantern to develop JPG video capture
980 7 2016-1-6
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trip3980
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So the idea was brought up to inorprate JPG image capture at 24p on the canon cameras.  I know Raw is the thing but I also noticed is JPG is an easer and more controlable format to deal with.  Espesialy with media management and file size.  My perposal is that the Zenmuse camera lineup record in real time 24p with existing hardware under difrent crop facters such as 2:35:1.  I think this can be done and magic lantern I think is about to prove the ablity to do so.  I know people have difrent reactions on what recording they want to stick with and I say more power to them but we do need more recording options for difrent outlets.  

   

2016-1-6
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DJI-Amy
DJI team

Hong Kong
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Thanks for your suggestion.
2016-1-6
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martin94b
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United Kingdom
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I doubt that the Osmo Hardware architecture will be capable of captering 24 jpg images per second. Neither in full resolution nor in some crop setting.
There are dedicated mirrorless system cameras which can do, but they spent quite some extra effort in the harware architecture such as the chip readout mechanism (less multiplexer and more very fast A/D converters, more internal memory for backup etc. for instance). And the Osmo focusses much more on 4K video and 12.8 MP single shot images.

My guess: the Osmo can probably do 3-5 JPG images per second and that´s it.
And that´s ok for me...
2016-1-7
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trip3980
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martin94b Posted at 2016-1-7 16:01
I doubt that the Osmo Hardware architecture will be capable of captering 24 jpg images per second. N ...

I think the problem here is that when recording video DJI is probably using I frames or something rather then convert the video single. really the censors do not need to be so large  because the aspect ratio is limited pixel dimensions.  I think the problem here is DJI needs a two part system one to display the video and one to record from a single preferably 10bit not the typical 8bit.  and bring the sensor size down to fit the true pixel aspect ration the footage is meant to be at.   Granted, you can have a large sensor and down convert the footage to achieve perceived higher quality but that's the most efficient  way you can have a better single to noise ratio.  Most camera companies try to cheat the video by adding I frames and such which can cause problems in post for the most part.  
2016-1-7
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martin94b
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trip3980 Posted at 2016-1-7 23:20
I think the problem here is that when recording video DJI is probably using I frames or something  ...

Hi trip3980,

I am sorry I do not understand what you are trying to say?
Even though I am guessing for replacement for some potential typos I am unable to understand your content and relation to the suggested 24 fps JPG images.

Can you please explain more detailed and maybe give some examples for better understanding?

Thx
2016-1-8
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trip3980
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martin94b Posted at 2016-1-8 18:08
Hi trip3980,

I am sorry I do not understand what you are trying to say?

Sensors capture images in pixels.   the larger the Sensors the more pixels.  for this statement bigger is not always better.   If you go bigger then you have to take an image with more pixels and downscale it to fit the desired pixel aspect ratio.  the way canon does this is they scan every other horizontal line effectively being able to capture an image across the entire Sensors rather then cropping the pixels to fit the desired pixel aspect ratio.  

A video single can output a single at a particular bit depth.  This bit depth contains more latitude or stops that can be edited later.  hence the craze for shooting in raw.  when we have say 7 stops of light correction in the Arri digital cinema camera.     an HDMI single can do 8bit and 10 bit singles.  currently apple 4444 xq codecs can record at  10, 12 and 16 bits which is outstanding.  When you shoot a blue sky with full resolution jpg you will see stripes.  while the compression plays a part so does the bit depth.  If I am correct i canon records 8bit jpgs.  this is partly the reason for the stripes we see when shooting a sky.  

Not that I am complaining but it can show up when you don't want it to.  

the major problem is with camera companies is they are always wrestling with the bigger is better but they are always forced to sacrifice something in the end.  not because technology is limited but because of the natural laws of physics.  But I give the camera companies credit they have been trying hard to meet the price point the consumer is asking for with the given technology.   
2016-1-8
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martin94b
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trip3980 Posted at 2016-1-8 17:25
Sensors capture images in pixels.   the larger the Sensors the more pixels.  for this statement bi ...

"The larger the Sensor the more pixels".
The number of pixels depends not only on the sensor size but on the pixel density / pixel size as well (and some other stuff like size of read out lines etc).

I guess what you mean with "bigger is not always better" is the old game of decreasing pixel size (= increase pixel density)? The Mega Pixel run of the last years. Correct?

Full frame cameras like the Canon 5D series or 6D or 1Dx definetly have major image quality benefits when compared to APC-C crop cameras with the same number of pixels (less quantum noise, better DOF isolation etc).

And of course the Bit Depth is an important quality aspect as well (in terms of dynamic range as well as colour resolution).

When you are talking about crop factors and pixel aspect ratios I still get confused. The way you use those terms is very different from how I am used to. Could you please give us your definition of those terms?!

Maybe your posts and ideas / messages you want to bring across get more clear then.

Thx,
Martin

2016-1-8
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trip3980
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martin94b Posted at 2016-1-9 00:46
"The larger the Sensor the more pixels".
The number of pixels depends not only on the sensor size  ...

Sorry sometimes when I write my ideas are not always clear.  

When I mean larger sensor I mean a sensor with more pixels.  However that said physical sensor size does effect the DOF greatly.  hence why people want to migrate to the larger sensors.  

in regards to crop factor, the crop factor has nothing to do with pixel aspect ratio  but rather the ratio the image is displayed in.  with that said you can change the pixle aspect ratio to match the crop factor.  like arranging building blocks you have so many building blocks and how you arrange them determine the crop factor or aspect ratio.  So when I am editing I can only edit in say 1920X1080 pixels.  I can only get this from the camera one of 3 ways.  one I can crop the sensor size to fit 1920X1080 pixels, two I can down scale the video single to get 1920X1080 (which gives you better perceived resolution because the image grain or noise smaller in relation to the aspect ratio) or 3 I can record every other horizontal line then convert that into scan lines taking advantage of the entire sensor (a combination of both down scaling and cropping).  The disadvantage of cropping an image on a sensor is the grain or noise size.  this really can't be avoided unless you shoot at a larger aspect ratio like 4k.  shooting film at 16mm ISO 500 is the equivalent of shooting iso 1600 on 35mm film.  hence why super 8mm film is so grainy.  so physically their is no way to get around this regardless of pixel density and the industry knows this.  The only way around is a larger sensor and down scaling or having a camera that can record at a high pixel aspect ratio such as 4k with with little or no compression, down scaling and scanned lines.   but to acheve this the camera must be able to process the raw image in real time while being able to capture the image at its respected data rate.  
2016-1-8
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