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AlaskanTides
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mike.wildlight Posted at 2016-1-20 10:33
Excellently put.
I understand Ken is trying to help (and I think we all appreciate that).

I like the sound of that...... Where did you get that information.
2016-1-20
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mike.wildlight
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AlaskanTides Posted at 2016-1-21 13:45
I like the sound of that...... Where did you get that information.

Sadly, just wishful thinking on my part
2016-1-20
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DJI-Ken
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philloder Posted at 2016-1-21 03:56
I keep seeing that geo-fencing is just beta, why cant I fly at all in my yard?
I cant opt out, disa ...

You are not in the Beta app, To be on the Geo Beta app you must install the Beta software with you Android phone and download it directly from the DJI Fly-Safe page. Then you have to install the 1.7 GEO firmware to your aircraft.
If you are on IOS, GEO Beta is not available for you yet. So if you are using IOS and you see no-fly zones where you didn't before then delete the app and reinstall it and power everything up and have good GPS signal on the aircraft an wait 5 minutes then you should be good to go.
2016-1-20
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dji-p3p1
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Tip: The post by the administrator or moderators shield
2016-1-20
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dji-p3p1
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Hi DJI-Ken

I don't know what happened, my last post shows "Tip: The post by the administrator or moderators shield"

What does this mean? - Am I in the Bad Book...?
i'm a Nice Guy.... Honest Gov!  
2016-1-20
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jrm11 Posted at 2016-1-20 18:00
What if your bank servers went down and you weren't able have access to your money.

I also see difficulties for DJI's solution in the EU. I think most of the people working with these questions are happy the industry takes action and shows solutions. But I also think that DJI will find it hard (if not impossible) to legally have their solution accepted in the EU in it's current form.

Why? Just a quick peek in the history. EU fought Microsoft about the forced implementation of Internet Explorer in their OS. EU thought the user should have a choice which browser should be installed. EU won and Microsoft had to release a version of their OS which let the user choose it they wanted IE installed. (Some years later thought, this changed again).

But what is interesting about this, is that EU fought so hard against a piece of software, that in itself is not critical and harmless. I mean, if you have IE installed but don't want to use it, fine, use another browser. If IE have crashed, install another browser. What sites you visit is up to you. With this solution we have no choice. We bought a product before restrictions forcefully was put in place.

In DJI's case very much is not told about the software that concern me. What user data is kept? Where is it saved? To what use? Who have access to this data? Why should a private company have this personal data? What happens if a server side failure happens which prevents me legally to fly? And many, many more questions. I can see EU put restrictions on DJI's solution.

Yes, restrictions (preferably automatic, like with software/hardware) should be used to hinder UAS to fly in restricted airspace. But it should be governed with the laws and restrictions that exist in each country, and controlled by the authorities in that country. Perhaps with the help from DJI in the long run, but not the other way around.
2016-1-21
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dacofty
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AlaskanTides Posted at 2016-1-20 22:27
The whole point of a statistical annuluses is to take a sample....
I can't think of a better plac ...

Im sure if you took the time to look around and see other drone forums you would see DJI's forum is about the smallest out there.  Try over at phantom pilots for starters.  Home and garden still might give you results your not looking for.
2016-1-21
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dacofty
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Oh no look out it seems the company who everyone thought was gonna be the alternative is now doing the same safe flying geofencing.  

https://www.yuneec.com/safe-flying  

One company after another.  Syma might end up being your best alternative for those against it.
2016-1-21
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AlaskanTides
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dacofty Posted at 2016-1-21 20:10
Oh no look out it seems the company who everyone thought was gonna be the alternative is now doing t ...

No one that is willing to shell out the money for a P3 or inspire 1 is going to have to settle for a syma.....get over it dude.

When there is a market oppurtunity someone is going to act on it...  For the type of money we are spending on these things, it's not a far stretch to say we can start having them custom built...
2016-1-21
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AlaskanTides
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dacofty Posted at 2016-1-21 20:10
Oh no look out it seems the company who everyone thought was gonna be the alternative is now doing t ...

No one that is willing to shell out the money for a P3 or inspire 1 is going to have to settle for a syma.....get over it dude.

When there is a market oppurtunity someone is going to act on it...  For the type of money we are spending on these things, it's not a far stretch to say we can start having them custom built...
2016-1-21
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dacofty
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AlaskanTides Posted at 2016-1-21 09:33
No one that is willing to shell out the money for a P3 or inspire 1 is going to have to settle for ...

What im saying is unless you cant live with the geo fencing then your best bet will be syma,  DJi's biggest competitor has implimented the safe fly so you really think all the others will not?
2016-1-21
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AlaskanTides
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dacofty Posted at 2016-1-21 06:07
What im saying is unless you cant live with the geo fencing then your best bet will be syma,  DJi' ...

Im not really sure to what degree the competitors have implemented geo-fence as of yet. There is a big difference between a geo-fence solution involving NFZ's  over the white house and airports, and the geo-fence solution that DJI is trying to force upon everyone ( the whole map is a yellow zone).

The current solution that DJI is preparing to impliment.... while most agree some form of geofence is acceptable and even desirable.... The version we have seen so far has a disapproval rating of over 90%.

With numbers similar to those...... They will effectively become a brand name appealing to hobbyist.
Professionals seeking serious tools won't touch them.... good luck selling a bunch of 3k dollar inspires to a bunch of weekend enthusiast.



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dacofty
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AlaskanTides Posted at 2016-1-21 10:35
Im not really sure to what degree the competitors have implemented geo-fence as of yet. There is a ...

If the map is yellow that can be unlocked.  Seems the competitors or some have already locked the height to the 400 ft level and no flied locations, i dont think they have a authorization map but who knows.  If they dont, im sure they will.  The only major downfall i see if if DJI tries to charge for authorizations, which ive heard rumors of.  I dont know how hard unlocking a zone is, there is one about 5 miles from me, i will test to see if it will do anything different, im not on the beta so i dont know if it will affect my craft or not.  The zone is about 2 miles larger than the red no fly at the airport.  Ill test both zones and see.
2016-1-21
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I'm actually looking forward to the P3S software to test it out..
2016-1-21
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dacofty Posted at 2016-1-21 23:50
If the map is yellow that can be unlocked.  Seems the competitors or some have already locked the  ...

Remember that when you install the 2.4.4 Geo Beta on your Android that you also have to install 1.7 to your aircraft.
In the Beta app the yellow authorization zones are larger than the 2.5.1 app red no-fly zones. They are easily unlocked and everything works fine.
The app even lets you know if there are authorization zones nearby and if you want to unlock those as well as the one you are currently in.
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dacofty
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dpdurst Posted at 2016-1-21 10:52
I'm actually looking forward to the P3S software to test it out..

I havent been around an authorization zone yet, the closest no fly is at our airport about 7 miles away gonna fly over a solar farm project being built this weekend so will test the yellow and red zones then.
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dacofty Posted at 2016-1-21 20:10
Oh no look out it seems the company who everyone thought was gonna be the alternative is now doing t ...

It looks like Yuneec doesn't let you fly in those areas at all, whereas DJI will let you fly over any no-fly zone (except White House and places like that)  by unlocking the zone.
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dji-p3p1 Posted at 2016-1-21 14:56
Hi DJI-Ken

I don't know what happened, my last post shows "Tip: The post by the administrator or mo ...

It's happened to me before too. I think it may happen if you're logged in and use a different device and also log in from there and make a post. I'm not sure though but when it happened to me that was why.
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AlaskanTides
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dacofty Posted at 2016-1-21 23:50
If the map is yellow that can be unlocked.  Seems the competitors or some have already locked the  ...

One of the major problems I see is from a work prespecive.
The first time my bird doesn't fly  because of a server issue or because someone unlocked the incorrect zone, I'm potentially out thousands of $$$$.
One mishap like that and most commercial users will be dumping DJI on the spot.
The attraction of DJI for most of us..... is that it's a cheaper price then what we can build a comparable bird for, and it's a ton more covenant ... However 1 mishap and the romance of that,  is down the tubes.
It's a slippery slope for a company that is marketing professional products.
I'm willing to bet that a large majority of the 30% planning to dump DJI are commercial users.  
2016-1-21
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dacofty
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-1-21 11:01
Remember that when you install the 2.4.4 Geo Beta on your Android that you also have to install 1. ...

I am not running the beta and will not due to IOS,  so that wouldnt matter unless its a red no fly correct?
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dacofty
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AlaskanTides Posted at 2016-1-21 11:10
One of the major problems I see is from a work prespecive.
The first time my bird doesn't fly  be ...

Well as far as work goes, then thats another ball game with the FAA 333 exemption and the need for a spotter and pilot, but if your good with all that then i understand your complaint.
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dacofty Posted at 2016-1-22 00:16
I am not running the beta and will not due to IOS,  so that wouldnt matter unless its a red no fly ...

Without the 2.4.4 Beta app installed on your Android and 1.7 on the aircraft you cannot fly in red zones.
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AlaskanTides Posted at 2016-1-22 00:10
One of the major problems I see is from a work prespecive.
The first time my bird doesn't fly  be ...

Doesn't really make sense. I am a commercial operator with a 333 and a private pilot as well. If I was on the Beta app I would never go to a job without everything prepared first, INCLUDING unlocking the authorization zone from home on my computer.

A commercial operator is always going to know well ahead of where his/her job is going to be and it wouldn't be very smart to not unlock your authorization zone well ahead of time.

AND, in the slim chance you get a job that starts in the next hour and you have no cell service to unlock the zone, you are illegal anyways because cannot file your NOTAM that quickly.
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dacofty
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-1-21 11:59
Without the 2.4.4 Beta app installed on your Android and 1.7 on the aircraft you cannot fly in red ...

I see the red zones around the airports on IOS and GO.
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dacofty Posted at 2016-1-22 01:10
I see the red zones around the airports on IOS and GO.

Yes you do because you are not on the Beta app and if you are, the aircraft also needs to be on 1.7 Beta then you will see the yellow authorization zones and not the red no-fly zones.
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AlaskanTides
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-1-22 01:05
Doesn't really make sense. I am a commercial operator with a 333 and a private pilot as well. If I ...

I was speaking of the fact that DJI servers are out of my control...we just saw that with the red zones  glitch a few days ago.

And mistakes happen, perhaps someone unlocked the wrong zone in advance..

DJI has just just added one more hurdle to the course.

Sorry you don't understand.... But 90 percent of the others that took this poll do.  Maybe that's you're sign bud
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DJI-Ken
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AlaskanTides Posted at 2016-1-22 01:37
I was speaking of the fact that DJI servers are out of my control...we just saw that with the red  ...

I know exactly what you were saying bud, your talking about losing thousands of dollars from work because you can't get an authorization zone unlocked. I was just stating that with a job that's paying you thousands of dollars (I doubt that) then you should be prepared and unlock the authorization zone from home. And as far as being an extra hurdle, if you call unlocking a authorization zone a hurdle then what do you call the steps to work legally with your 333 exemption. Filing NOTAMS, no one within 500ft, needing a VO, filing monthly reports to the FAA, complying with the COA, and all the other much more extreme hurdles then unlocking a zone.
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dacofty
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-1-21 12:14
Yes you do because you are not on the Beta app and if you are, the aircraft also needs to be on 1. ...

Ill pass ;)   for now
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dacofty Posted at 2016-1-22 02:01
Ill pass ;)   for now

Exactly, it's just a Beta app for people to try out. If you don't want to participate, then don't.
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dacofty
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AlaskanTides Posted at 2016-1-21 12:37
I was speaking of the fact that DJI servers are out of my control...we just saw that with the red  ...

I see you keep referring to 90%, the poll numbers do not reflect 90% disfavor it.
Actually the majority is in favor of some form of Geo fenceing with the bulk as partial agree.  So this isnt a diasgree majority poll.
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AlaskanTides
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-1-22 02:00
I know exactly what you were saying bud, your talking about losing thousands of dollars from work  ...

Working with the FAA is a requirement, it's the law. Unlocking DJI zones that DJI has no authority to lock in the first place is somthing entirely different.
And yes in the construction industry especially when remote travel is required in Alaska you're talking thousands...
I've tried not to escalate this to a personal level. You seem want to defend this geofence every inch.
I'll offer some advice.
Don't be-little  you're customers, and don't act as if you have all the answers.
You repeat things over and over. We are not slow ......we understand you can unlock an area by a computer in advance.... Yep we get it , it makes you sound out of touch.
You have a pilots license a 333 and you're a moderator... We got that too.

I'm a customer and I'm giving you real world data here. If this is how DJI treats customers you're already done.

You know nothing about construction contracts and the cost of others doing business
How much do you think it cost an hour for a power company to kill the generators for you to inspect power lines?
Or oil and gas pumping stations that have to kill the pumps so you can inspect a flare stack?

Thousands aren't a drop in the bucket bud. When I have 5-10 sparky's 3 control room operators and 3 equipment operators standing around during a scheduald shutdown waiting for me to do my inspections.

And if a tool doesn't work because of a server outage... It's huge. If this is you're final solution II have to build a custom rig I have no choice. Unreliability is not an option

But it's not just me , if it were just me you'd be able to tell me to piss off... However its everyone in the industry that needs the things to work. That's going to be you're undoing

Do You want to manufacture toys or tools? I don't care either way
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AlaskanTides
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dacofty Posted at 2016-1-22 02:05
I see you keep referring to 90%, the poll numbers do not reflect 90% disfavor it.
Actually the maj ...

Only 9.83% agree with DJI's current proposed geofence model as is.
I'm reading the polls as, The majority of other uses  support a limited geofence model.  But not DJI's  current plans as seen by beta users. And even if you just count the other 30+ percentile of clients who strongly dislike the model... That's still 1/3 of you're current customer base. No matter how you dice it the polls are telling the story.
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AlaskanTides Posted at 2016-1-22 03:14
Working with the FAA is a requirement, it's the law. Unlocking DJI zones that DJI has no authority  ...

Again, with that much at risk, unlock at home well before you go to a job. I hardly see that as a big hurdle. If you don't like it then do not participate in the GEO Beta program.
If and when it ever becomes a official firmware version then don't upgrade to it and keep things how you are currently flying your DJI Phantom or Inspire.
IF the day ever came that it was mandatory to be on the GEO Fence firmware and that does not work for you then we're sorry to see you go but you will have to go to a different manufacture.
And if that happens way down the road, maybe every manufacture will have the same rules.
Or stay with DJI and use a Naza, Wookong, or A2 flight controller.
I'm sure with the features of the Inspire and X5, there will be lots of people selling their older equipment to purchase Inspires. And if have the technical experience then you can buy all that gear new and build your own DJI rig and not have to worry about GEO authorizations.
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AlaskanTides Posted at 2016-1-22 03:21
Only 9.83% agree with DJI's current proposed geofence model as is.
I'm reading the polls as, The m ...

9.83% agree with Geo fence according to a forum poll hardly qualifies for a complete analysis.
Things are changing in the drone world, rules and laws are coming down the pipeline, you'll have to deal with them at some point.
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dacofty
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AlaskanTides Posted at 2016-1-21 14:21
Only 9.83% agree with DJI's current proposed geofence model as is.
I'm reading the polls as, The m ...

But then you should state that as a partial agreement not a disagreement.  90% disagrees means 90% are against geo fencing in total.  I am quite sure once its released it will mirror those in the partial agreement part of the poll.  The authorization zones will be reduced down in size and then most will be happy again, but sorry to say its here and its gonna be here in DJI and all the other birds that are considered more than a toy drone.
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dacofty
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-1-21 14:39
Again, with that much at risk, unlock at home well before you go to a job. I hardly see that as a  ...

Well I am not sure about alot selling theirs and buying the inspire unless DJI is going to give a 3000.00 credit.
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AlaskanTides
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-1-22 03:41
9.83% agree with Geo fence according to a forum poll hardly qualifies for a complete analysis.
Thi ...

No it's a statistical sample...it's very valid as to what it's intended for. Which is sample the mood and feelings of the consumer. You are however right about the laws coming down the pipeline. To stay legal a individual will have to use equipment that conforms to those laws. If those laws irequire  geofencing so be it. But if that where the case right now you would not have upset Customers.
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AlaskanTides Posted at 2016-1-22 03:53
No it's a statistical sample...it's very valid as to what it's intended for. Which is sample the m ...

Geo Fence is only a Beta program and if you don't like it, then don't install it. I really don't know why people are upset.
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AlaskanTides
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-1-22 03:39
Again, with that much at risk, unlock at home well before you go to a job. I hardly see that as a  ...

do you really not understand? Or are you play the devils advocate? I'll explain my view as best I can.
A system as complex as DJI is putting together requires networks and servers and high maintainance. there a number of things that have to work perfectly. Even if you un-lock well in advance there is no guarantee ....that some anomaly won't happen such as the recent glitch that just happened with the beta effecting the normal go app.  Systems such as this are prone to failure. How often do you visit a website that's down for maintance?  Thus unlock well in advance is not an answer... It was also never my concern thus I'm confused as to why you repeat that over and over and over
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dacofty Posted at 2016-1-22 03:46
Well I am not sure about alot selling theirs and buying the inspire unless DJI is going to give a  ...

I'm currently in the market for a S1000 just because I've seen the prices drop a ton in the last several months and I think I can find one complete with GH4 and Futaba 14GS for less that the price of a Inspire Pro.
If you fly with a S1000/GH4, why not sell it and get a Inspire Pro. Way easier to transport, way cheaper batteries, camera controls in the app, and a ton of other benefits.
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