DJI-Autumn Posted at 2015-1-7 12:08
Paul, thanks for the post and it helps a lot.
About your issue and recommendation D-boy and me have  ...

Yes Paul , brilliant work , I have been following it with great interest. Maybe  DJI will send you a gratis replacement bird in recognition of your efforts-  they should!
Cheers!
Rod

jedthone@hotmai Posted at 2015-1-7 07:10
How do I tell if I have a version of the Vision + that might have this issue?

You have Version 2 if your controller uses AA Batteries, and doesn't have a dial on the upper left corner of the Transmitter (for moving the camera up and down). If Version 3, On the side of the Box it will have a "V3" somewhere on a label or barcode (V2 will have no number). V2 will have an exposed compass on the landing leg, V3 compass is covered with a white plastic box.

knowonecares Posted at 2015-1-7 21:56
You have Version 2 if your controller uses AA Batteries, and doesn't have a dial on the upper left ...

Ok. I have Version 3. So I guess I should be safe then.

what makes the v2 and v3 different related to this issue?  i have the v3 (im assuming since the compass is enclosed in the small white box).

jebthone... use these to see if you have the correct ESCs.

The new motors are 690kv? I thought 960kv? The sticker 2.0 is not enough according to this thread, i guess you need v2.1

I have a Vision 2 (no plus). (white, round camera)---
Remote takes AA batteries (no gimbal lever) and my compass IS protected on the leg by a thin white box.
Props have come to a forced stop many times---still works.  Haven't opened shell, yet.

Side note: I have recently noticed one of the motors doesn't turn quite as freely as the others, and seems to have a slight source of consistent friction when I spin it slowly by hand---as if a grain of sand has gotten in the bearings.   Is it going to fail?

jeepinocala Posted at 2015-1-5 02:39
Can you post a picture showing the parts that burned up?

Attached are a few photos of a blown ESC and some info for replacing a bad ESC board yourself - it's really not that hard.

Thanks to all for your comments.  Schematic and oscope waveforms coming.  

The bottom line is don't be afraid to enjoy your Phantom.  If you're new with the Phantoms, read the manual several times until you really understand it.  Then fly it - just being very careful to not let the spinning props strike anything.  Then with a few flights under your belt and you're feeling comfortable, put it in NAZA-m mode and learn the ATTI and IOC/Home Lock modes to recover if it starts acting weird.  That's saved me a couple of times when dropping GPS or I lost track of where "front" was.  Keep all batteries charged.

Comments posted here and a couple of private emails from DJI and distributors indicates there is a sincere effort to characterize some of these ESC failure problems and correct it.  I don't think it's being ignored by DJI.

Paul

It seems that the power on start up sounds are a better indication on what software the ESCs have.



So despite not having "V2.0" or V2.1" on the ESC sticker, if your start up sound sequence does not have the 4 extra beeps and does not have the initial red lights then you have good updated software in the ESC.

This is the case with my phantom
I have had 70+ flights without any ESC problems despite not havign "Vx.x" on the white QR code sticker.

If you have burned ESC's call DJI customer service for warranty repair.

knowonecares Posted at 2015-1-6 09:55
I'm a new pilot with a PV2+ Ver-2, and I've had at least 6 crashes from 10 feet up: poor compass cal ...

I have the same perspective...purchased a PV2+ Ver-2 in October (from drone fly.com), and have flown it extensively, including a couple of "tip-overs", and one incident involving clipping some tree leaves and a resulting fall from about 10 ft. I have had no issues with motors or esc's.

It appears to me that in the Ver-3 (new motors, esc's, and wiring) DJI may have gotten ahead of themselves. Additionally, it also appears that some of the problems we are hearing about involve owners doing their own upgrades of motors/esc's, which involves delicate soldering, and could possibly raise questions as to the motors/esc's that they received from whomever they purchased them.

In summary, there is enough "noise" around the Ver-3 issue to confirm that something is going on. I rue the day that a have to replace a motor and/or esc, as my current Phantom has no issues, and I don't look forward to the soldering involved. What would really be great is if DJI would make the motor and esc a "matched set" from the factory, and the only connection involved is a plug connector.

So, I have to worry about soldering and replacing ESC's straight out of the box on my first flight?

I brought a Phantom 2 (v2.0) 24th December, since had 15 uneventful awesome flights. Number 16 is where I was flying around and all of a sudden the front left motor dropped power for a second.

This happened twice as I was trying to bring it in to land, eventually ditched it in soft grass (no damage) to insure it didn't hit something.

I have V2.0 ESCs and the front left esc has a slightly toasty looking black wire coming off it (towards motor).

Now dunno what to do ... don't really want to fly it and risk it going AWOL in the air and loosing it (it's fitted with H3-3D, Gopro 4 Black, Mini iOSD and FPV tx).

apocnz.email Posted at 2015-1-27 11:12
I brought a Phantom 2 (v2.0) 24th December, since had 15 uneventful awesome flights. Number 16 is wh ...

If you have an ESC problem, there is a "soft" failure where at least one of the MOSFETs has been damaged, but has not failed.  Then, there's a "hard" failure where one or more MOSFETs has fully failed (they usually fail in pairs).

If your Phantom is still apart as shown in your photo, plug in the top with the GPS cable.  Then move the motor wires so they are not touching the six MOSFET chips.  If it's put back together, that's fine also.   Take off the props.  Insert the Phantom battery.  Turn on your RC then a normal start up of the Phantom battery.  Let it do a normal initialize until it has 6 sats or more.  In other words, ready to fly.  Do the CSC to turn on your motors (remember, no props).  Leave them at idle for a good 30 seconds.  Listen for any change in pitch that might indicate one motor is slowing down, or slowing down then speeding back up.  Speed up your motors and listen for an even increase in pitch, or if one motor not sounding like the others at higher speed.  An uneven motor sound is abnormal and may indicate a "soft" ESC failure.  All four motors at should hum along at the same exact speed with very little change.

When you do the CSC to turn on your motors and the Phantom battery suddenly turns completely off, this is the battery protecting itself from a short circuit inside the Phantom.  This is usually the sign of a "hard" ESC failure.  Usually a MOSFET pair fails as a short circuit across the battery and causes the battery to shut down.  This would indicate a failed ESC board more than the motor.

Keep in mind, if you have a "soft" failure, a pair of MOSFETs are partially damaged.  Do not attempt to fly with an "anemic" ESC.  Replace the ESC.  Also keep in mind - with a soft failure and you run your motors, the motor current may be enough to cause the bad MOSFETs to completely fail.  This will normally shut down the battery and accompanied with a puff of white smoke from the bad ESC arm.  No more guessing if you have an ESC failure!

If you are comfortable with the above tests that the motors and ESC are operating normally, then put on the props and do a test  with a fully charged battery by letting it idle with props, and ensuring the plastic top shell is not rubbing against any of the motors (their shape can sometimes get distorted on even a minor crash).  If all is well, then lift it up 10 feet or so, then down, then up a few times, let it hover, and listen to the sound of the motors and props, or for any movements no quite right from your stick commands.  If it seems OK, it is then a judgement call if you think things sound properly for a normal flight.  If it doesn't sound or respond quite right, then immediately land it to be conservative and safe.

This is not theoretical troubleshooting, but my experience fixing several ESC failures.

Good luck, and let us know what you find and your observations.

Paul

Wow! That's some detailed work there Paul, very well done sir. If it turns out you are correct (and I think you most likely are) DJI owe you something for the amount of work you have put in on this.

trailtec.email Posted at 2015-1-28 14:12
Wow! That's some detailed work there Paul, very well done sir. If it turns out you are correct (and  ...

Thanks to all for the kind words.  I do hope DJI has seen some of the information, and I have had some contact with them.  The main reason for posting the information, however, is for the fellow flyers on this forum and hope the information helps keep your Phantom in the air and flying safely longer - including mine!

Paul

Thanks for the info Paul.   

I did a quick check after the initial dodgy flight (without props), both idle and full throttle it sounded fine...  but apart from ESC, I can't think of a reason it would do what it did (front left arm dropped hard enough to throw the zenmuse off).

Would definitely replace the ESC if I thought it was soft failing ...  although after buying it only a month ago, it's tempting to throw it back at the retailer (who no doubt would send it back to DJI for repair, 3 months of waiting involved Im sure).

I was thinking, if the ESC/wires can't quite stand the load, maybe using the original P2 props (as opposed to the new ones) would take a bit of the strain off?


Cheers
Carl

Just pulled the Phantom apart again (put the top on the wrong direction) and noticed something interesting ....

The motor of which the ESC played up in flight has a lovely white ring around the bottom of it ...

So here is the theory...

The clearance between the top of the frame and the motor is marginal..  it freely spins, but what if it heats up and starts rubbing against the frame = friction/resistance = ESC/wires start heating up ?   

Apparently it has as there's frame shavings around the base of the motor ...

Continuing on from above...

Ran the P2 at full throttle without props, and sure enough once the motor got hot enough it started making contact with the frame....

Found that the motors are not all perfectly centered, just undo the hex screws that hold them in, there's a bit of play there (enough to adjust) and ensure they have proper clearance (centered properly). Another fix would be to use sandpaper and create some more clearance.

Just ran another test after centering them and tada...  no more contact when hot.    

Given I was flying in moderate wind for full battery flight, by the time I was coming into land the motor was nice and toasty.. making good and proper contact with the frame causing the ESC to begin to cry...   

My one month old p2v+ v3 has a failed esc. No crash, obstruction, water ingress or even rough piloting. I did test the bird without props and pushed the motors for about 30s before pulling the sticks down.
Dji is not answering emails. Local seller is advising for me to change the motor myself. He says he never heard of esc defect even if he sells more than 100 v+ a month. He also says he does not know about esc 2.1 and has only seen 2.0. Do we know if 2.1 is really working better than 2.0?
Changing the esc/motors every 30 flights could end up being costly. In the current state of affairs, i would recommend against buyin any Phantom until DJI comes clean on this issue... For me the advantage of the Phantom is not having to tinker. Now, it looks like i need to learn to solder.
DJI: i am extremely disappointed in your product and lack of service...

Done a few flights on mine now, no issues at all, and noticeably the motors are not as hot post-flight.

If it really is a design flaw, it's a doozy ..

I've crashed many times with prop stopping suddenly, etc and never blown an ESC.   My question is did you fail the SAME ESC each time by replacing the MOFSETs? or did you fail 3 different ESCs on different motor?  If it was the same ESC then this theory is true for that one ESC on that one motor, which likely could have other issues, not in general.  I doubt the theory not on any electrical argument (although I have a Masters in Electrical Engineering) but on basic experience which flies in the face of what is stated above.

I sent in an inquiry to DJI about my unmarked ESC's and if I needed an RMA and never heard anything back. I did tip my phantom over one time stopping two of the props while the motors were still running for a few seconds before I could power down and my ESC's didnt blow up.  The phantom still fly's fine and there appears to be no damage to the ESC's when I opened it up. What's strange is I have two P2V+ (ver3) and one has the label on the new motors and the 2.1 ESC while the other one does not have a label indicating the new motor (although it is the new motor) and unmarked esc. It seems like some production runs properly labeled the parts and the others did not.  

norman.nha Posted at 2015-2-1 21:54
I've crashed many times with prop stopping suddenly, etc and never blown an ESC.   My question is di ...

Norman,
There are plenty of reports on these forums by those who had the slightest brush against spinning props and instantly blew an ESC.  There's also others that seem to smack into the Rock of Gibralter with no ill effects.  I can not explain the difference.  I suspect the difference between the older 2.0 and 2.1 ESCs or perhaps a bad batch of mosfets.  There's not enough info on the reports to determine which flavor of ESCs are failing or not.  Hopefully it is the ver. 2.1 that has fixed some things, which would have been strictly a firmware change.  On my tests, a sudden hesitation of the motor caused the rotor position feedback to stop, causing the drive pulses to stop sequencing, and hence, constant dc current through a pair of windings.  Hopefully 2.1 corrected this by forcing some sort of commutation to continue when feedback got interupted or "confused."  The commutation feedback is ignored when you start or stop the motors, for example.

To answer your question, my tests were conducted on the same ESC board, which I had to "blue wire" as the traces to mosfet gates were vaporized following the initial failure.  I bought my P2V+ V3 mid-November and they have the old unmarked ESCs in it.  I just ordered four 2.1 ESCs to upgrade to the new version and will check operation on the oscope to see if any differences from the tests and waveforms I previously posted.  

Reports of failing ESCs is settling down, presumably because the old ESCs have pretty much been purged from manufacturing and all units now being sold have the ver. 2.1.  This appears to confirm that ver. 2.1 firmware changes have addressed the problem of anemic commutation and mosfet failures.  Let's hope so, and the diminishing reports seems to support that.

Paul

apocnz.email Posted at 2015-1-30 10:58
Just pulled the Phantom apart again (put the top on the wrong direction) and noticed something inter ...

apocnz,
You did some good troubleshooting to discover and correct physical interference between the Phantom arms and the motors.  There have been other reports on the forums of motors getting hot and causing the plastic to warp or distort a bit to rub against the motor(s).  One can imagine what would happen if that contact occurs during a flight.  I have not noticed that problem myself, but as a precaution, I did ream a few mils of plastic from around the motors for a little more clearance.

Thanks for your reports and repair actions.  I'm sure many found it useful as well.

Paul

apocnz.email Posted at 2015-1-27 11:12
I brought a Phantom 2 (v2.0) 24th December, since had 15 uneventful awesome flights. Number 16 is wh ...

Did your failure look a bit like this?   Fast forward to 1:51.  I also have v2.0 ESCs and replaced them with v2.1s to fix it.  

chris.turnerhq Posted at 2015-2-15 10:18
Did your failure look a bit like this?   Fast forward to 1:51.  I also have v2.0 ESCs and replace ...

Chris, that's exactly what happened.

I've also found that if there's a fair bit of wind and the Phantom is fighting it (if you have iOSD, anything causing the Phantom to tilt or roll more than 10 degrees to keep position), I think this causes the motors to run a bit too hot, setting them up for a fail.

But the off-centered motors would obviously cause problems too.

I appreciate the tutorial information on this ECS. I had a crash . and it went from one engine to the next , to the last one and but not the least the twitch engine from firing, thanks again . Paul from colorado

My Wookong-M octo crashed a few times, some of them really bad with motors burned and all, and just one ESC has failed me in 5 years. I think it's all about ESC quality and power.

I don't ever recommend landing in anyone's hands. There are too many dangers. Just learn how to land carefully, without hurries and smoothly. That's all.

And certainly never lose visual contact with the aircraft, that's the single most important thing every serious pilot should know.

Otherwise, interesting info and thoughts.

does anyone have the procedure to update the firmware to V2.1?