QuadBart Posted at 2016-3-9 13:44
Because its time and effort to address an issue that is avoidable.  Why make changes when they cle ...

Please help me here and define the "limits" of a normal flight? Where it begins and where it ends.

iherzog97 Posted at 2016-3-10 01:02
I strongly disagree.
The form factor and flight features eliminate the from of the aircraft. There ...

The Phantom is a flying camera and not an aerobatic drone. Please tell me in what flight situation would you use low throttle/full right yaw and full reverse and full left bank.

iherzog97 Posted at 2016-3-10 01:04
Please help me here and define the "limits" of a normal flight? Where it begins and where it ends.

What is the definition of a normal flight to you?

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-3-9 14:11
The Phantom is a flying camera and not an aerobatic drone. Please tell me in what flight situation ...

I totally agree. Look into this situation:
I try to fly safe, therefore not close to the ground.
There is an area that I want to shoot with the camera, but I am to high and to close, therefore I flight downwards and backwards. In this process I maybe adjusting the position of the aircraft by going left/right while I am still flying down and back.
Because the gimbal does not allow us to rotate the camera, I may have to use the left stick right/left to center the scene.
This is not a madness flight, but potentially the sticks may touch the CSC position.
This is a pilot with over 50 Phantom flights that gets confident with the controls and has used 100% of the time only the left stick to shut the engines off after landing. That read the user’s manual several months ago and learnt from it. But what stay are the lessons that we use. I like to know if even 5% of the pilots uses a CSC procedure to shut engines off after landing.
DJI has just added a “PAUSE” button to interrupt flights in intelligent mode. There is no major issue to have a “emergency button” and thousands of other electronic/mechanic devices have.
Not INVESTIGANTING this possibility is being stubborn.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-3-9 14:12
What is the definition of a normal flight to you?

Normal flight is using the aircraft features under its specification limits. It is respecting any warning message.

iherzog97 Posted at 2016-3-10 01:30
I totally agree. Look into this situation:
I try to fly safe, therefore not close to the ground.
...

In the simulator, please try flying with the sticks just about touching the corners and see how out of control the Phantom flies. I just don't see how that could possibly be a intentional maneuver.

iherzog97 Posted at 2016-3-9 12:04
Please help me here and define the "limits" of a normal flight? Where it begins and where it ends.

Sorry won't help you there. If you need that kind of hand-holding to figure that out, maybe flying Quads/Drones isn't for you...  People need to learn to help themselves instead of relying others to feed everything to them...

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-3-9 12:43
In the simulator, please try flying with the sticks just about touching the corners and see how ou ...

I agree with you Ken............and I guess I'm just not understanding two things.

1.  What CSC can do is defined ad nauseum in the manual and lots of posts.

2.  If the way DJI configures their products is not acceptable to people, they have the choice not to buy or use DJI products.

You can never eliminate human error no matter how many fail-safes you implement, and I'll bet if they did change CSC to a kill switch or other type of system, there would be some who say it's inefficient, dangerous or too slow.  
You can't please all the people all the time

QuadBart Posted at 2016-3-9 14:47
Sorry won't help you there. If you need that kind of hand-holding to figure that out, maybe flying  ...

Very clever your stupid answer.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-3-9 14:43
In the simulator, please try flying with the sticks just about touching the corners and see how ou ...

Ken,

It's not flying in these positivos. It's passing by these positions.
Phantom 3 is extremelly stable. It is not going to loose control. Nothing radical will happen.

iherzog97 Posted at 2016-3-10 02:15
Ken,

It's not flying in these positivos. It's passing by these positions.

That's what I'm saying, even passing by the CSC position the aircraft would not be in a stable normal maneuver, so I cannot see how anyone can it unless they are trying to fly like a aerobatic aircraft. If you are filming something and want to backup and lower altitude and yaw and bank, there's no way you would get even close to CSC position. You would lose the subject just as soon as you started the maneuver.

iherzog97 Posted at 2016-3-10 01:30
I totally agree. Look into this situation:
I try to fly safe, therefore not close to the ground.
...

This is a completely unrealistic scenario, because you wouldn't be able to maintain the subject in the frame. You're grasping at straws here.

QuadBart Posted at 2016-3-10 00:17
What is it that you guys aren't getting through your thick skulls?  The minute you introduce Humans ...

You sir, are a dullard without basic comprehension skills, you need  learn how to read and interpret written communication, construct an intelligent argument and stop taking yourself so seriously.
This is such a small issue, it's an easy fix, no longer worth my time to respond further.

mike.wildlight Posted at 2016-3-9 15:05
You sir, are a dullard without basic comprehension skills, you need  learn how to read and interpr ...

At least you called me Sir!  You have a good day too!

lido_bmt Posted at 2016-3-9 21:45
Sure. It's like saying "Here's a button which is behind five safety mechanisms that will kill the  ...

I'm not worried at all, but improvements are good things; has anyone suggest 5 levels of safety mechanisms? JUST DON'T USE FLIGHT CONTROLS. How about Press and hold power, then momentary on RTH or any other myriad of combinations that AREN'T FLIGHT CONTROLS this would be just considered "best practice". I'm astounded you seem to so vigorously defend what is not by any stretch a big deal.

mike.wildlight Posted at 2016-3-10 04:13
I'm not worried at all, but improvements are good things; has anyone suggest 5 levels of safety me ...

DJI chose the CSC stick combination like that because of the highly unlikely occurrence that you would ever move the sticks in that position.
I know a few have accidentally done it in mid air and if they were not flying acrobatics, I honestly do not see how someone could ever get the sticks in that position.
That's just my 2 cents. I have hundreds of hours on DJI equipment and have never one come even close to executing a CSC during flight, and even aggressive flight.
Even flying the P4 aggressively in Sport mode, I never even came close to the sticks in CSC position.

mike.wildlight Posted at 2016-3-10 04:13
I'm not worried at all, but improvements are good things; has anyone suggest 5 levels of safety me ...

You missed the point of my example. The fact is you'll never accidentally execute the CSC, so why would you need to move it to something else? THAT's why people are calling this entire thread ridiculous. You're trying to make something safer that doesn't need to be made safer. If it's not broken, why are you trying to fix it? Changing it actually risks making it worse.

The CSC is not going to change. Sorry.


Dave

DJI-Dave Posted at 2016-3-9 17:49
The CSC is not going to change. Sorry.

This arrogant respond about "not going to change", period only contributes for the well-known very poor customer care DJI is famous for.
I have a ticket open with DJI waiting for over a month for response.
Although the company has grown a lot in recent years, it still looks for its customers as a backyard venture.

DJI-Dave Posted at 2016-3-9 17:49
The CSC is not going to change. Sorry.

This arrogant respond about "not going to change", period only contributes for the well-known very poor customer care DJI is famous for.
I have a ticket open with DJI waiting for over a month for response.
Although the company has grown a lot in recent years, it still looks for its customers as a backyard venture.

lido_bmt Posted at 2016-3-10 06:40
You missed the point of my example. The fact is you'll never accidentally execute the CSC, so why  ...

Read through the thread again, as the OP identifies, according to DJI, it is a problem, in the video posted by DJI-Tim : TOP 10 common pilot errors it is the first they mention "from analysing flight data". That's DJIs information not mine, nor the OP. So DJI are saying it's a common problem on one hand and then on the other saying "but we won't do anything to change it".

mike.wildlight Posted at 2016-3-9 18:19
Read through the thread again, as the OP identifies, according to DJI, it is a problem, in the vid ...

Mike. Perfectly put.
Maybe it's good for DJI to have drones crashing. More drones will be sold.

you have to be flying like a crazy chimp to perform CSC to shut down in mid flight, there is just no situation where those stick positions are normal

mike.wildlight Posted at 2016-3-10 08:19
Read through the thread again, as the OP identifies, according to DJI, it is a problem, in the vid ...

Are you under the mistaken idea that DJI is some sort of democratic organisation that must respond to your pleas or arguments?

It is a private company that can design their products however they please. You only have one choice, buy it or not buy it. As has been said very plainly a few posts back "The CSC is not going to change."

Geebax Posted at 2016-3-10 09:01
Are you under the mistaken idea that DJI is some sort of democratic organisation that must respond ...

I'm sorry who's posts are you reading?
Are you under the mistaken impression that in this forum people aren't able to express their views and give feedback to the company hosting the site on their products?
You have two choices...

I know of no successful long lasting company that ignores customer feedback. If they listen or not, it's up to them, I actually do not give one iota.

iherzog97 Posted at 2016-3-10 08:16
This arrogant respond about "not going to change", period only contributes for the well-known very ...

The real arrogance is inexperienced pilots refusing to acknowledge a large number of very experienced people telling them that it really isn't a problem.

And it's fuelled by the ridiculous top ten list that makes people like you believe it's a major cause of crashes when it's obvious to anyone that flies these things, that this couldn't possibly be true,

mike.wildlight Posted at 2016-3-9 15:05
You sir, are a dullard without basic comprehension skills, you need  learn how to read and interpr ...

thank you very much!

your whole purpose it seems is to be contrary to other users

they say black , you say blue
matters not the subject
its what you appear to do.

anger and irritable when others don't concede to your point of view!

good luck and have fun flying!

wish I was so superior!

!

labroides@yahoo Posted at 2016-3-9 20:49
The real arrogance is inexperienced pilots refusing to acknowledge a large number of very experien ...

What do you know about my experience?
Get lost!!!

kirk2579@aol.co Posted at 2016-3-10 10:24
thank you very much!

your whole purpose it seems is to be contrary to other users

I claim no superiority, never have, never will.
I do object (quite vehemently) to unsupported insults that simply do not relate to the content of a post.
The post you quote is as close as I have ever got in this forum to insulting someone and it is obvious (to me) that the guy I was responding to, started slanging insults without actually understanding the point of the post in the first place. I suspect it wasn't even properly read, just reacted to. Perhaps I could have communicated better, I don't know, I thought it was pretty clear. I have no issue with a robust discussion of facts and will happily change my mind with the presentation of compelling evidence.
It is tiring to see OP's constantly berated because they have the audacity to have an opinion not in line with a select group of regular posters who indeed have a superiority complex because they are "experienced users".

With respect to the topic at hand I believe there are 3 pertinent facts:
1) DJI have stated there is a "common" issue with users unintentionally initiating a CSC.
2) This is easy to address
3) DJI have stated they don't intend to address it.

For the life of me I cannot work out why this is such a big deal!

Happy flying to you.

Please use the simulator and watch a pseudo-CSC manouver, then try to imagine any situation using that.

I've used CSC twice, because it's required by law in my country to kill engines in order to prevent major damage on someone elses property or body.
Both times was adquiring my license (you need to register the drone and show the CSC mechanism with the propper parachute) and was a weird thing to look at, as i wasn't confident enough on the parachute, so i pulled the sticks too slowly and the P3 made a couple of spins before i CSC'd (that's why i had to do it twice too xD).

Being new and arrogant isn't going to take you anywhere, instead of jumping onto conclusions and try to fix something not broken, listen to someone else with years flying these things, as most of the people that already gave their opinion in this thread. If you are new, be ready to learn, not to teach.

mike.wildlight Posted at 2016-3-10 05:19
Read through the thread again, as the OP identifies, according to DJI, it is a problem, in the vid ...

What the data doesn't tell you is why someone executed the CSC. So unless you can actually point out that people executed the CSC by accident, the data doesn't give any reasons behind it.
The reason people are laughing at you is because the CSC isn't a problem. If it was, you'd hear a vast groundswell of complaints about it. Instead, we get the weekly post from someone new who has little to no experience with any kind of hobbyist flying worried about a potential situation that never happens in real life.

interesting (and partly funny) discussion. I have yet to receive my P4, so I can't try the CSC in the simulator and have to ask my questions here:
1) How long do you have to put the sticks in the CSC position before the engines shut off?
which leads me to
2) How about increasing the time the sticks have to be put in the CSC position before the command will be executed, so that anyone who accidentally triggers it does have a chance to correct his mistake before the bird falls out of the sky?

iherzog97 Posted at 2016-3-9 13:16
This arrogant respond about "not going to change", period only contributes for the well-known very ...

I am just trying to tell you what is going to happen or not happen. Read it how you want...


Dave

c.oberschneider Posted at 2016-3-10 14:41
interesting (and partly funny) discussion. I have yet to receive my P4, so I can't try the CSC in th ...

1,  CSC is instant
2.  No ... it's there as an emergency stop switch.
When you need an emergency stop, you don't want any kind of delay on the switch.
This makes sense as the CSC is not going to happen accidentally in any normal flight.
It's ridiculous and unnecessary threads like this that scare inexperienced users into thinking it might be a problem when in fact there is no problem with it at all.

lido_bmt Posted at 2016-3-10 12:50
What the data doesn't tell you is why someone executed the CSC. So unless you can actually point ou ...

To restate the obvious it's not me that's saying it's a problem, it's DJI, but you don't seem to want hear that, by all means laugh at them!. I can't recall how many times I've said "It's not a big deal" or "I don't care" about it. I just believe in continuous improvement and there's no doubt in my mind it shouldn't be actuated from flight controls. Even the act of initiating a CSC mid-air puts the aircraft in what everyone describes as a crazy manoeuvre, so sure that's got to be a good thing.
I do completely get new people coming in being worried about it because DJI themselves place this as the #1 item on their list of common pilot errors. I don't believe you'd call it a pilot error if you deliberately executed a CSC so DJI are saying that is what the data shows.

For the record
*I don't care one iota if it changes or not.
*I do believe it could be better than current and fail to understand why you wouldn't do so.

mike.wildlight Posted at 2016-3-10 16:40
To restate the obvious it's not me that's saying it's a problem, it's DJI, but you don't seem to w ...

I think the simple answer is this: I am never going to pull a CS  accidentally, so I don't want it changed from the current method.

Just the other day, I was flying my P3 while eating a burrito for lunch. I had the RC in my left hand and the burrito in my right. Just then a car drove by playing some loud music. I just couldn't help myself. I had to start hopping on one foot and turning around in circles in time to the music. A few seconds later, my right ear started to itch. Since my hands were full, I tried to scratch it with my left elbow. Sure enough, I accidentally did a CSC. So for all you experienced know-it-alls, it CAN happen.

BouldersDad Posted at 2016-3-10 14:47
Just the other day, I was flying my P3 while eating a burrito for lunch. I had the RC in my left han ...

Two hands on the wheel
Two hands on the RC!
No distractions while driving!
No distractions while droning! That includes eating Burritos's and hopping on one foot,
LMFAO...don't believe you did that and for the record...
It was not accidental...it was a consequence of your distractions/actions!....

c.oberschneider Posted at 2016-3-10 00:41
interesting (and partly funny) discussion. I have yet to receive my P4, so I can't try the CSC in th ...

Response # 1: a fraction of a second
Response #2: a possible solution

In all seriousness though, if I was the DJI designer tasked with coming up with an alternative, I have no idea what I would do. This is an emergency procedure that the user needs to be able to initiate quickly and easily. If I give him a button to press, I need to make sure that he doesn't accidentally press it while flying, yet he needs to be able to use without having to worry about finding it in some obscure location or flipping back "covers". I could recess it, but if it's recessed enough to prevent accidental pressings, it might be difficult to press in an emergency. (And then we have the subset of people who can't be bothered with reading the manual, who would press it just to see what it does). We also have to keep in mind that the overwhelming majority of the users out there will never have to do this.