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Video Compression/Noise Reduction Artifacts and camera issues in P4
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19679 75 2016-3-22
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boltupright
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Greetings friends,

After using a Phantom 3 Pro since it came out last summer, I just bought a Phantom 4.  I consider myself a reasonably skilled armature photographer.  I usually shoot 3840X2160 4k 30fps and I never had any complaints with the video produced by my p3p, however with the p4, there are some pretty awful artifacts mostly in the low lights of highly detailed imagery when there is fast movement near the ground and much worse when tilting up and down than when panning.  I never saw those compression artifacts with my p3p shooting with the asme settings and under similar circumstances.  There is a new setting in the Go app called "3d noise reduction" which can be turned off and when I tried turning it off, the footage looked much better as the artifacts were greatly reduced.  This  is disappointing because I never got those awful artifacts on my p3p.  Why would it be happening on the p4?  One other thing I have noticed that's almost as bothersome is that the auto exposure is course and sort of changes in large steps, not smoothly and therefore is much more noticeable and objectionable than with the p3p which was much more gradual and more subtle in automatically riding the exposure.  Hopefully  there will be some firmware updates to improve these issues soon.  This is my only complaint about the Phantom 4 thus far, but it's a big one!  I am wondering if there is a problem with my Phantom 4 or if others are seeing similar results.  You can view this brief video illustrating both the issues I describe here.    
Any info or ideas would be appreciated.  Here is a link to the file in Dropbox https://www.dropbox.com/s/2fpdxxav7k0ujqr/Artifacts.mp4?dl=0

--Jim

2016-3-22
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granne
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wow thats painful to watch, reminds me of online videos from the 90s
2016-3-22
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mrGREEK360
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You sure the video is coming off the SD card? If so then it needs a repair sadly. Make sure everything is updated and try reformating the SD card a few times in a row in the dji go app.
2016-3-22
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Geebax
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The clip is posted at a maximum reolution of 2160p, so it will have come off the SD card, the version on the phone/tablet will only be 720p.

It is a fruitless exercise trying to judge the effect of compression artefacts on a video clip posted on YouTube. Even if it was perfect, just putting it up on YouTube would reduce it to a mess. You need to post the original ifle on Dropbox or similar if you want a critique. Even so, the video system uses very high rates of compression and shooting material with massive detail in it like you have will not be kind to the result.
2016-3-23
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boltupright
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Geebax Posted at 2016-3-23 01:40
The clip is posted at a maximum reolution of 2160p, so it will have come off the SD card, the versio ...

This video was taken from the SD card.  That's what it looks like from the SD card and displayed on my 4k monitor.  Here is a link to my Dropbox public folder with a copy of the file.   https://www.dropbox.com/s/2fpdxxav7k0ujqr/Artifacts.mp4?dl=0

2016-3-23
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boltupright
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mrGREEK360 Posted at 2016-3-22 23:21
You sure the video is coming off the SD card? If so then it needs a repair sadly. Make sure everythi ...

Absolutely sure the video came off the SD card.
2016-3-23
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boltupright
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I would really like some help from others with P4's.  I have now made the file available via dropbox.  Has anyone else noticed these type of artifacts in the P4?  I need to know whether mine is defective or not.
2016-3-23
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boltupright
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Geebax Posted at 2016-3-23 01:40
The clip is posted at a maximum reolution of 2160p, so it will have come off the SD card, the versio ...

Here is the video uploaded to dropbox.  I really need to know whether there is a problem with my P4 so I can decide whether it needs to be returned.  Any help would be appreciated.  https://www.dropbox.com/s/2fpdxxav7k0ujqr/Artifacts.mp4?dl=0
2016-3-23
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Beau
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Holy sh*t.
2016-3-23
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boltupright
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Very helpful!  Thanks for taking a moment.
2016-3-23
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Geebax
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I downloaded your clip and watched it on my dedicated edit computer, which has some pretty serious hardware. You are quite correct, in that there are some very disturbing artefacts shown, but they are compression artefacts triggered by the enormous detail in the image. The wood chips in the play area, and also the grass at close range are causing this. These cameras employ quite high compression to get a 4K image down to a rate where it can be recorded on a fairly low cost SD card. Therefore it is inevitable that these artefacts will be visible under the shooting circumstances.

I would think if you shot the exact same sequence on your P3P you would get a similar result. I know I get the same thing if I shoot my stone covered driveway on my P3P. Perhaps shoot some more footage taken at altitude and see what result you get.

I don't see this as a fault of any sort, and I also doubt it will or can be solved by a firmware update, as being a product of the compression, it is being performed in a dedicated video processing chip and not under DJI control.



2016-3-23
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boltupright
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Geebax Posted at 2016-3-23 17:14
I downloaded your clip and watched it on my dedicated edit computer, which has some pretty serious h ...

Thank you for your input.  I think you are probably right.  I am mainly trying to determine whether this is to be expected as you describe or if there is actually a defect in my P4.  I am thinking you are probably correct and it is not  defective.  I have shot similar material with my p3p (which I no longer own) and I did not see artifacts like this to nearly this extent, but I am thinking that the improvements they made to the P4 glass may have made the compression artifacts more noticeable because the camera is sharper over all.  When I turn off "3d noise reduction" there is considerable improvement.  When shooting in the air, I don't really see much of these artifacts and when I do, it's usually while tilting the camera up and down, panning doesn't seem to cause it nearly as much.  Thanks for your input.

--Jim
2016-3-24
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Beau
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boltupright Posted at 2016-3-24 06:50
Thank you for your input.  I think you are probably right.  I am mainly trying to determine whether ...

Artifacts would be sensor related... I don't think the lens should have anything to do with that. Just my opinion, but I'm basing it off of decades of camera work.
You could take off, or cover the lens and have only white/black go to the sensor while recording, and theoretically if there is an artifact issue, which is probably compression realted, it would still show up on the recorded file.
2016-3-24
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Topviewpics
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boltupright Posted at 2016-3-24 03:30
I would really like some help from others with P4's.  I have now made the file available via dropbox ...

I did this morning! My first P4 flight and same here in regards to P3Pro never had this issue. I am debating whether take to Apple store for a replacement or assume that P4 has a not so great sensor. I hope there is some calibration or setting in the camera that I can fix this.

BTW, artifacts aside, the banding that happens during flight is what really bothers me. Any news on that?
2016-3-24
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boltupright
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Topviewpics Posted at 2016-3-24 12:54
I did this morning! My first P4 flight and same here in regards to P3Pro never had this issue. I a ...

I think what you're referring to as banding during flight is what you see when there is direct sunlight shining through the propellers onto the camera lens.  That is NOT a defect.  What you are seeing is a lens flare from the sun which is intermittent as the propeller interrupts the direct sunlight.  It manifests itself as banding because of the rolling shutter and how it interacts with the propeller blades.  The solution for that would be a lens hood if you can't avoid shooting at that angle relative to the sun.

--Jim
2016-3-24
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Geebax
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Beau Posted at 2016-3-25 06:36
Artifacts would be sensor related... I don't think the lens should have anything to do with that. J ...

The artefacts are not a factor of the sensor, they are due entirely to the H.265 compression. Shots from up high look great with the P4, the lens is clearer and crisper.

If as you suggest, you covered up the lens, you would not see any artefacts at all because the job of compression just become 1000 times easier. You might however see the noise floor under those circumstances, and that is not something you really want to see
2016-3-24
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Topviewpics
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boltupright Posted at 2016-3-24 17:04
I think what you're referring to as banding during flight is what you see when there is direct sun ...

Actually I am referring to a horizontal split between lighter and darker areas of my footage. There seems to be an area half way up my screen where the colors are darker than the other half.
2016-3-24
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boltupright
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Topviewpics Posted at 2016-3-24 17:09
Actually I am referring to a horizontal split between lighter and darker areas of my footage. Ther ...

Okay...that's something else.  Sorry I misunderstood.  Please post video if you can.  We all want to learn as much as we can.

--Jim
2016-3-24
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madaerial
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I got artifacts as well at low altitude looking down. If you really want to see it, I could upload. This was one of my first flights. I wasn't very surprise.
2016-3-26
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ndsiow
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Hi Jim, I do have similar issues.

Sent an email to Dji support.

First, they told me to get a better/faster SD card, which I did (using Sandisk extreme pro class 10 U3 now)

Second, they told me to unplug the gimbal cable and plug it in again. I was confused, then I realised they were talking about phantom 3. -.-''

Then go on telling me to get a dry cloth and clean the lens and try it out again. OMFG. Enough already.

So, I have decided to accept that they will do an upgrade in the firmware in the future or soon. (no DJI support did not inform me that, I was just hoping that they would)

I am not sure whether the rest of P4 owners are facing similar issues, or just a few of unlucky ones like us.

Here's the link to my footage.



-andy
2016-3-26
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imm.arcobaleno
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ANCHE IL MIO P4 FA LO STESSO DIFETTO INOLTRE QUANDO VOGLIO FARE FILMATO 360 GRADI ORIZZONTE INCLINATO HO ANCHIO P3 MAI SUCCESSO
2016-3-27
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boltupright
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imm.arcobaleno Posted at 2016-3-27 01:17
ANCHE IL MIO P4 FA LO STESSO DIFETTO INOLTRE QUANDO VOGLIO FARE FILMATO 360 GRADI ORIZZONTE INCLINAT ...

Okay, it looks like you and others are seeing the same thing I see with my P4.  So, at this point, I am not as concerned about this as I was originally because it is not indicative of a defect.  I think that the new camera is considerably sharper than the P3P camera and as such there is more fine detail which is good except in certain circumstances.  Here's what I am doing and it seems to work well.  Whenever I shoot near the ground, I turn off the 3d noise reduction because with all that detail I think the noise reduction gets overwhelmed so to speak.  When I am shooting aerials, I usually leave 3dnr on since in this type of shooting, it usually doesn't generate too much in the way of objectionable artifacts.   I think the main situation where the 3dnr really may be a benefit is when shooting aerials in very low lighting conditions but I haven't tested it in those conditions yet.  There probably isn't anything wrong with the camera, but what definitely is lacking is adequate documentation about the camera.  They need to explain what their 3dnr is for and what situations it is good for and which ones it is not.
2016-3-27
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boltupright Posted at 2016-3-28 04:03
Okay, it looks like you and others are seeing the same thing I see with my P4.  So, at this point, ...

Hey,

I found this thread because I'm having the same issues (and others).  I've been looking online for consensus on the problem but haven't had much luck, I'm guessing as more and more people get their hands on the P4 chatter will pick up (specifically people who owned a P3P).  I loved my P3P footage the first time I saw it, the P4 footage looks like garbage.

Besides a ton of noise/artifacts, my sharpness is pretty terrible and all similar color terrain (grass, leaves, tiles) end up looking like a pastel painting.

I've done all the testing I can regarding settings, color modes, sharpness levels, etc, but overall it's still bad, un-predictable, and noticeably worse than my P3P.

I contacted DJI about it, asking if maybe I just had a lemon... no response yet.  If I get a response about wiping the lens or needing a faster SD card I'm going to lose it.

Alex
2016-3-30
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boltupright
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atreidex@gmail. Posted at 2016-3-30 08:50
Hey,

I found this thread because I'm having the same issues (and others).  I've been looking onlin ...

Turn off 3d noise reduction and you will be happier, except if you are shooting in very low light.
2016-3-31
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ndsiow
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hey jim, i off the Noise reduction but no difference in my footage.

very frustrated.

any one else having same issue and solved it.

- andy
2016-4-2
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jwatt
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ndsiow Posted at 2016-4-2 19:43
hey jim, i off the Noise reduction but no difference in my footage.

very frustrated.

We are seeing the same thing in the IPad, but our video recorded on the card looks pretty decent except the recorded video looks like it has way too much sharpening applied.  Anything with fine detail is "alive" on our 4K monitors.  Also we added an HDMI box to our RC and the video feed via HDMI is unusable.  It has a large horizontal scan line and we're getting the same breakup in the HDMI feed as we have in the IPad.

We were also viewing the OSD info in the HDMI feed and didn't try a test with it turned off, but it was exactly the same thing we were seein in the IPad.   We swapped the HDMI box for the box that came with the unit and still had the same problem with the IPad feed.

We're going to Apple today for a new P4.  Will let you know what happens with the new bird.

Jw
2016-4-3
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cg.godd
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IDK about the 3 or any other... but Im not happy at all with the video quality... I came across this post because i was searching out this problem.
2016-4-3
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FatedFilmsNC
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Wow, it seems there are a lot of people having this issue. I am not having issues with noise artifacts, even when shooting in 1080p. i've flown over flowing creeks and every detail is crisp and clear. I'm having some hover issues with mine, but none at all with my camera. There might just be quite a few P4's out there with bad cameras for some reason, because I can vouch that my camera is flawless on my P4. Not trying to rub it in anybody's faces, just trying to say it's not product-wide.
2016-4-3
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ndsiow
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Hi jim, hows your new phantom going ? do update here. Thank you.
2016-4-4
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Jim Watkins
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ndsiow Posted at 2016-4-4 08:57
Hi jim, hows your new phantom going ? do update here. Thank you.

All is well for me after turning off 3dnr.
2016-4-5
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microcyb
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try using a SanDisk Extreme 64GB microSDXC versus a generic cheap SD card
2016-4-5
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rwhoffart
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Jim, can I ask your camera settings? Is this 4K/30fps? What was your shutter speed?
2016-4-5
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Jim Watkins
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rwhoffart@gmail Posted at 2016-4-5 11:05
Jim, can I ask your camera settings? Is this 4K/30fps? What was your shutter speed?

4k/30 auto white balance, auto exposure most of the time.
2016-4-5
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Morph1
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Tip: the author has been banned or deleted automatically shield
2016-4-5
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rwhoffart
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Jim Watkins Posted at 2016-4-6 02:30
4k/30 auto white balance, auto exposure most of the time.

Lock your shutter speed at 60 ... you will end up with a much smoother video. Now in most cases you will be greatly over-exposed. You will then need to add ND filters to lower exposure. Watch this example in HD 1080 and you will see the difference. For more info google ... 180 degree rule for video,

2016-4-5
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Jim Watkins
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rwhoffart@gmail Posted at 2016-4-5 12:27
Lock your shutter speed at 60 ... you will end up with a much smoother video. Now in most cases yo ...

I am waiting for ND filters.  They are on backorder.  
2016-4-5
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rwhoffart
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Jim Watkins Posted at 2016-4-6 04:17
I am waiting for ND filters.  They ae on backorder.

http://taco-rc.com/taco-rc-nd-fi ... om-4-free-shipping/
2016-4-5
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Jim Watkins
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rwhoffart@gmail Posted at 2016-4-6 04:19
http://taco-rc.com/taco-rc-nd-filters-set-nd4-8-16-32-for-dji-phantom-4-free-shipping/

Thanks for the info.
2016-4-5
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mariuspaun80
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Hello guys! I also have issues with phantom 4. When lightning conditions are changing the image have some pulsations like you increase shutter speed. When this happens the camera is in the manual mode, 1920x1080, 50p, shutter 50, white balance on awb, noise reduction is on. Do you have ideas what happens? Could noise reduction on make this pulsations? When camera is on manual white balance these stops are not so visible. Any idea?
Here is the example:



2016-4-12
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madaerial
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mariuspaun80 Posted at 2016-4-12 06:51
Hello guys! I also have issues with phantom 4. When lightning conditions are changing the image have ...

Not sure, but I think that is the auto white balance adjusting.
2016-4-12
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