Helopilot7 Posted at 2016-3-24 23:00
You are correct,  a 1 dB drop in TX power is not significant. We RF engineers have a saying, "a dB ...

and to further reply to this FCC output tests are performed in Engineering mode, this is a mode that forces the output to maximum constantly,  in real world use the carrier output is modulating and chaining continually, very rearley does the output actually reach the full test output

Average output is much less.

Finally the P4 does not have less power output than the P3
P3 Model WM3231510 Output 0.520mw
P4 WM330A                                 0.598mw

Yes its lower than the origonal released P3 but no one has been screaming about the later P3 having poor range

To the OP, Thank you for being an early adopter!

frank@lokalhost Posted at 2016-3-24 20:05
Got 1500m from a CE version today with all bars still at top. Keep in mind that this is 75% less tra ...

Dont get me wrong. I managed to get 1700 meters from my phantom 4 the other day. But one minute after landing I took off with my p3a and got 2500 on the same route. And with less lags and red warnings. There are times when a phantom 4 can perform amazing feats. But at those same times, my p3a, usually a few minutes after landing my p4, manages substantially more.

I just read this guy's review on the Phantom 4 distance: http://myfirstdrone.com/phantom- ... test/#comment-11392

jck Posted at 2016-3-25 08:05
I just read this guy's review on the Phantom 4 distance: http://myfirstdrone.com/phantom-4/dji-phant ...

Boom.  There ya go.  Unmodified P4 flew out 4.2 US Statue miles and back with little dropout.  IN YOUR FACE.   Sheeeesh close the freaking thread already.

Hit 2.2km with mine today (CE) before video droppes out. I think I was to close to the forrest flyging tho since some trees prolly blokker my LOS when it came that far out. Was also flying from just outside a house with other houses closeby so not radio silent again. When I came back I noticed that I forgot to set the phone in airplane mode like I do when I range test so it doesn't transmit something. I'm very happy with the results I get under not optimal conditions so I'm keeping mine for sure This is my first DJI product besides wookong flight controllers for my hexa's and I can truly say this is the best RC product I've flown this far. All this great tech in a tiny package and it "just works" without any setup or fiddling first.

Mad_Angler1 Posted at 2016-3-24 16:20
and to further reply to this FCC output tests are performed in Engineering mode, this is a mode th ...

Good points MA,  Outside a controlled laboratory environment results become variable, unrepeatable and subjective rather than objective.

ryan209 Posted at 2016-3-23 17:41
Ditto with the typos.   Maybe if you had addressed the issue as a consumer instead of trying to thro ...

I think it doesn't matter if he works for Apple or eats an apple.  A 20% decrease more than likely decrease the distance of the light bridge.  Now,  DJI didn't provide false information if its the exact same Light bridge, they just omitted they reduced the power.  The evidence provided that was submitted to the FCC on the P3 and P4 is very telling.  I would expect DJI to release their information with data on how they have achieved the same performance with decreasing output.  I am sure NASA would be interested in how they were able to do this.

dacofty Posted at 2016-3-25 10:44
I think it doesn't matter if he works for Apple or eats an apple.  A 20% decrease more than likely ...

So essentially they should release a trade secret to satisfy internet whiners....hmmmmm.

"A 20% decrease more than likely decreases the...."  -According to internet engineer dacofty after basically admitting he has no idea what other variables have been manipulated.

dacofty Posted at 2016-3-25 08:44
I think it doesn't matter if he works for Apple or eats an apple.  A 20% decrease more than likely ...

"I would expect DJI to release their information with data on how they have achieved the same performance with decreasing output."

This happens all of the time in the engineering world, more efficient signal processing on the receive side could easily negate a 1 dB gap.  Out in the field,  a 1dB loss could easily be attributed to less than optimal antenna orientation or a Freznel zone obstruction.

pgrover516 Posted at 2016-3-25 17:40
So the upshot of all this is that because theoretically DJI may have some top secret black hat techn ...

no you missed the point completely. The point is that the difference from early P3 to P4 (and late p3p) doesn't mean you loose 50% range like claimed by OP. Nobody says there isn't a issue we are just pointing out that it doesn't have to be related to the difference in the FCC documents.

For my CE version everything seems fine tho. I could get 2.2km under not optimal conditions with mine so I'm sure I can squeeze out 3km+ if I wanted to.  

Are you tallying the numbers?   Or just going by how loud a dozen people are whining on the Internet?  What if it's .001% of the user base, should they still be responsible to meet every unreasonable demand because a handful of people experience an issue within a week of a brand new product being released?

DroneSpeed Posted at 2016-3-25 12:03
What would be rather amusing, is the fact that  if DJI released another controller with a 0.4 outpu ...

Thats a bit of a jump.  Just because you only can list a changed spec without any regard for the other variables that may have changed and have no proof whatsoever that this is what is causing this isolated issue does not mean that there isn't an issue with something else.  DJI never once stated "things are exactly the same"  all they stated was the lightbridge hardware was exactly the same which all indications are that it is.  Tx power as explained 29 different ways is not the end all be all of this equation.

The more this thread goes on, the more apparent it is that some here aren't used to being an early adopter of a product,  and when people don't bow down and meet their demands immediately (no matter how ridiculous or illogical)  this is the adult temper tantrum that results.

pgrover516 Posted at 2016-3-25 12:03
I'm not missing anything, there seems to be a significant number of people having range issues, ma ...

Nobody claims that laboratory conditions are required to take an issue seriously...except you I guess.  What has been stated is that one person having an issue (Or even 10 or 20 people..... one person who isn't an engineer and hasn't done testing with all variables accounted for)   Then that person is not in a position to state definitively that there is a widespread fundamental issue with a product.   They ARE well within their rights to DEMAND that DJI offers an official statement, a technical explanation from an engineer,  an explanation of each FCC filing for each product,  a massage from the CEO, etc on the internet forum.  That said however, they should expect that level headed, logical people, aren't going to take their account at face value and may even decide to ridicule them.

pgrover516 Posted at 2016-3-25 12:11
see how it is? If a person is not getting the advertised performance and they say so it is not "da ...

IF DJI can't replicate the issue, or note any data to support it,  there is no basis for replacement.  Apple isn't going to replace an iphone for an issue that you can't recreate for them and the data doesn't support.  If there is an issue that is verified by supporting data, or is able to be replicated OF COURSE they should replace it NOBODY is denying that.

The fact is that a lot of these issues are explainable by MANY other causes. P3P forum is filled with people who swear up an down they had a defect or a flyaway and then when all said and done, the flight data, etc does not support their claim.

This is how the world works, there must be actual verifiable EVIDENCE of a defect.  Just because you say it is so, or you scream the loudest, or you are an apple exec,  does not make your analysis of the information the correct one.   

pgrover516 Posted at 2016-3-25 12:33
"The fact is that a lot of these issues are explainable by MANY other causes. P3P forum is filled  ...

No but being an early adopter, and working in various roles in CE for years, If i have a defect less than a week after release, I will report it to the manufacturer and give them a reasonable amount of time to investigate the issue.  

I may offer my theory,  but I am not going to repeatedly imply that testing a p4 along the same route as my P3 in my neighborhood, or my city park or anywhere else for that matter is enough to draw any kind of objective conclusion.  I understand that there are many variables that are outside of my control and seeing as how I didn't engineer the device, many I probably don't even have any idea about.  People seem to think that pointing out the fact it is impossible to do an objective test with all variables controlled on your own at home,  that somehow your flying skill, experience, or knowledge is being called into question and that simply isn't the case.

So again,  I would give the manufacturer the opportunity to investigate and do PROPER testing.  Obviously  if there is no satisfactory resolution I will seek other recourse but that probably won't be trying to convince others by screaming on the internet that the whole product line defective and the company is engaging in some kind of massive cover up because of an out of context FCC filing or a select few instances of defect.

How many firmware releases has DJI repaired or improved functionality that was considered to be faulty ( ALL opinions on NFZ etc. aside)  

Issues like this are complex,  they must be investigated and recreated first and foremost,  then a solution must be developed, and then it again must be thoroughly tested.  People want to have your cake and eat it too: Which do you want firmware releases that are flawless on the first try?  Or a firmware release written in an hour?   These things take time,  as I've stated before this is part of the deal when you shell out $ to being an early adopter of something that is brand new and hasn't been around long enough for the kinks to be worked out.
I AM open to the possibility that there is a defect or an issue but IMO that is the case a much smaller percentage of the time then the alternative. The fact that the majority of people have p4's performing great leads me to believe that it isn't likely to be an inherent design flaw,  maybe a batch has a manufacturing flaw, but at the end of the day I usually don't jump to conclusions. I factor verifable data into my though process much more than antecdotes.

pgrover516 Posted at 2016-3-25 13:00
I could respond coherently point by point where I disagree but clearly it won't matter, it won't ma ...

I respect your opinion.  I was only stating how I would handle the situation to help express my point of view.  I think everyone puts a different value on certain things,  and I think that when you spend your own hard earned money on a product,  how you go about getting satisfaction is your own prerogative.  I think these devices are amazing and sure to improve in a hurry, and I honestly really wish everyone having issues was able to simply enjoy their product instead of feeling helpless that they didn't get what they were expecting,  I genuinely do.  My only reason for posting (other than killing some downtime) is to offer a different point of view or insight for some of the people that I think may have unrealistic demands or expectations.

  I understand what it's like to have emotion cloud reason,   and for many people the cost of a p4 is a month's pay so I can totally understand people acting out even if they are normally reasonable people in other aspects of life.  I just think that more can be accomplished by taking a deep breath, cooling off, and really looking at the facts instead of speculating or jumping to conclusions.  Best of luck to all.

DroneSpeed Posted at 2016-3-25 13:15
I can tell you in terms of Apple - they monitor their discussion boards and take VERY seriously peop ...

I agree, to that point I don't believe that in that situation they would directly interact, or issue public declarations, apologies, admission of fault, or even detailed  technical information based on such postings, all though I could be mistaken. ( All of which at different points have been requested/demanded in this thread)

DroneSpeed Posted at 2016-3-25 13:26
I'm going to try make #RANGEGATE a trending Twitter topic

If you can manage that I will officially concede this debate to you sir!

DroneSpeed Posted at 2016-3-25 18:59
I wonder if DJI is able to use a firmware update to increase the RC output to ameliorate RANGEGATE?  ...

The p4 is specced at 23 dBm and p3p is 20 dBm EIRP actually. Second, as explained OVER AND OVER again in this thread to you but you refuse to see it, the difference you find in the OLD p3p (not never models) FCC document vs the P4 means almost nothing and does not fit with your description on how big the problem is at all. Stop hitting the repeat button please and open your eyes to other possible sources of problems. Actually I'm tempted to ask you if you hold your radio correct and orientate the antennas correctly even if it might com out as an insult I kinda have to do it based on the other info you have given.

How many are having this issue? The more I look into this the more I see a few screaming very very loud with very little.. actually scratch that.. NO documentation and my own tests kinda shows that there is no problem that can't be explained with LOS/RF noise/wrong polaritzion in sport mode.

I'm very interested to figure out if there is a problem with my product also but please provide more documentation, logs, scans from spectrum analyzer, how do you hold your radio/antennas, LOS or not and whatever info that you even dont even think is relevant.

Mad_Angler1 Posted at 2016-3-24 16:20
and to further reply to this FCC output tests are performed in Engineering mode, this is a mode th ...

MA,  

Where did you get those FCC ID numbers?  

Shame on me, I finally looked at the back of my P4 controller and found the FCC ID #  SS3-GL3001510  The FCC grant says Output Watts is .303, or 303 mW.  Page 19 of the FCC report shows that's the power measured at the low end of the band (2404 MHz), mid band (2436 MHz) it's 207 mW, high end of the band (2470 MHz) is 159 mW.

Would someone with a P3 RC please furnish the FCC ID shown on the rear label?

Thanks

  

By the way, latest 2015 P3P FCC approval and P4.

https://fccid.io/SS3-WM3231510
Phantom 3 professional
0.52W
-------------------------------------------------
https://fccid.io/SS3-WM3301512
Phantom 4
0.598W

frank@lokalhost Posted at 2016-3-25 13:42
By the way, latest 2015 P3P FCC approval and P4.

https://fccid.io/SS3-WM3231510

So wait, what you're saying is that the most recent P3P model actually shows a filing for .078 LESS wattage than the p4 filing?!?! That EXTRA wattage must surely be causing p4's to have "half" the range of the P3P.

A good reason why trying to draw conclusions based on one TINY part of the big picture is silly.

frank@lokalhost Posted at 2016-3-25 11:42
By the way, latest 2015 P3P FCC approval and P4.

https://fccid.io/SS3-WM3231510

SS3-WM3231510 is not the FCC ID # on my P4 RC, it's SS3-GL3001510  Can someone else with a brand new P4 RC confirm that?