So yesterday i went to bed with DJI Tim asking to Whiskey to post the last 2 minutes of the FB flights. What happened then? There was a CSC?
As usual the post was deleted. Personally i dislike this attitude of DJI. When i started to follow the DJI forums there was a smart guy named Paul Kerry that brought a great contribution to the Inspire's forum but he went mad about the batteries problem of the I1 and he was banned and his useful threads gone along with him. Now this guys...

I know this is a DJI forum and users have to respect the host but i think that is better for DJI to take an official position (instead of deleting threads) about the Flying Brian's problem because internet is huge and bad opinions can easily run away without an official position.

user's never getting banned for no reason. Bryan broke  forum rules 4 times, so he got banned.  Same thing with Paul, and  any other who got banned.  

DJI-Tim Posted at 2016-3-31 11:28
user's never getting banned for no reason. Bryan broke  forum rules 4 times, so he got banned.  Same ...

Yes i know there are rules to follow. Why deleting all the threads and the posts of the banned person and not only the posts in which the rules were broken? There were a lot of nonsense posts after Paul's ban and i bet now too.

I too would like to know why these threads keep getting deleted when many others that also criticise DJI don't?  'Rangegate' and 'DJI Autolands your drone' threads are still pumping away on here un-deleted yet very critical of DJI.  
Many of us want to know what happened to Bryan's drone when there seems to be conflicting reports.   

wellsi Posted at 2016-3-31 13:42
I too would like to know why these threads keep getting deleted when many others that also criticise ...

i kind of shocked but i have yet to see any locked threads.     a hand full of the threads should just be locked rather than being beat into the ground.   

im shocked how long dronespeed lasted with how much he was openly bashing.    pretty sure "windgate" is his new name.  or he was cloned.  styles and negativity  are too similar.

Sadly, it would appear feelings were also hurt and rudeness was going crazy from all aspects (on both sides) as well, so I bet they just said forget it and removed it all.
It would be nice to take this on a more logical approach and really get down to the science of the problem.
Logs do not always speak the truth and humans also tend to cause cause when there is none.
I would rather look at everything on a more logical sense and study the data from both a hardware, software, and human factors to get a real idea of what caused the problem to find a solution rather then pass blames around.

But then the threads get deleted, so no one knows the truth..

I hadn't noticed that Dronespeed got banned; unsurprising given his language, but again, why does that thread remain and this thread keep getting deleted?  

wellsi Posted at 2016-3-31 14:11
I hadn't noticed that Dronespeed got banned; unsurprising given his language, but again, why does th ...

All I think about when I see the RangeGate thread.
(for mobile users, there is a picture here)

Freddy4Fingers Posted at 2016-3-31 14:52
Well thats easy answer. they wouldnt want anyone doubting the all mighty DJI

Still shocked at the meanness when someone wanted to work for them.

DJI-Tim Posted at 2016-3-31 17:28
user's never getting banned for no reason. Bryan broke  forum rules 4 times, so he got banned.  Same ...

I for one am thankful FB is gone.  His confrontational and disruptive attitude far outweighed any positive contribution he might have made.  Thank you DJI-Tim!

microcyb Posted at 2016-3-31 11:53
Still shocked at the meanness when someone wanted to work for them.

haha right? I was semi joking, but the response was inappropriate

DJI-Tim Posted at 2016-3-31 17:28
user's never getting banned for no reason. Bryan broke  forum rules 4 times, so he got banned.  Same ...

Hmm,  I think you're off by a factor of 10 on your count -- I just wonder why it took so long to get rid of him!  I have absolutely no sympathy, he had plenty of warnings and just continued to push the boundaries.  

Good riddance!  At least for a little while..  (he always threatened how easy it would be to just make up another account! )

Jkeller84 Posted at 2016-3-31 14:59
haha right? I was semi joking, but the response was inappropriate

Instead of saying "Don't Bother", I would have thought a DJI higher up employee would had first taken a deep breath, and said something like sorry at this time we are not accepting any new positions or something in those lines.

So you can tell, that feelings and emotions are running quite high.  

Was kind of a shock and disappointment to hear that even though not directed towards me.

AssHatModerator Posted at 2016-3-31 12:11
Hmm,  I think you're off by a factor of 10 on your count -- I just wonder why it took so long to g ...

Bryan F4F posted the portion of the video I had asked for. He was flying with the Litchi app as well as the DJI GO app at the same time
There was a 1/2 CSC stick sequence shown on the GO app ( left stick full bottom right and right stick full upper right).  But Bryan was using the POI mode in the Litchi app when the CSC occurred and was not using the GO app.
Also, from the video that you guys have seen, he was flying it to the extremes, full stick movements in all different directions.
Anyways, I have explained it and there really is no more to say.
Bryan and I are communicating via email so no one can say he was being ignored.

Freddy4Fingers Posted at 2016-3-31 13:45
That's hilarious

It's magic!!

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-4-1 07:19
Bryan F4F posted the portion of the video I had asked for. He was flying with the Litchi app as well ...

Thank you DJI-Ken. Now the right thing for this thread is to lock the thread. But don't delete it, because you have given a really good response. However, nothing more needs to be said on this topic as its being discussed privately.

I mentioned this in the csc thread but I'm pretty sure the sticks don't have to be 100% fully down and in / out   Can be left stick 100% down and in/out and right stick 95% inwards and 100% or 95% down also.  The THRESHOLD OR tolerance for what needs to be executed for a csc is a lot smaller/narrower than u might think

Freddy4Fingers Posted at 2016-4-1 08:38
Really? You are buying that?
DJI-KEN SAID: "1/2 stick CSC sequence"   and.
"He was flying it to  ...

Bryan, You were flying with Litchi in POI mode, The DJI wasn't even being used for flying while you were in POI mode. End of story.
I tried my best to assist you and even was trying to get you a discount if I could. So just leave it what it is. If you keep bringing up the same thing over and over again management is going to step in again.
Again, you were not even using the DJI app when your aircraft crashed.And when I meant half, you had 100% left stick bottom right corner and right stick 100% top right corner.

Again, you were not even using the DJI app when your aircraft crashed.

microcyb Posted at 2016-3-31 14:46
All I think about when I see the RangeGate thread.
(for mobile users, there is a picture here)

Have you ever saw something so horrifying that you just couldn't look away?

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-3-31 20:37
Bryan, You were flying with Litchi in POI mode, The DJI wasn't even being used for flying while you ...

Can I have his discount?  

microcyb Posted at 2016-4-1 10:23
Can I have his discount?

You never know

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-3-31 18:37
Bryan, You were flying with Litchi in POI mode, The DJI wasn't even being used for flying while you ...

Ken

first of all this is a sad thing that happened, plus it is hard to read about it.  I feel like I am really to late to comment on this situation.

The one thing I see after reading your information about FB is, he had two Apps running at the same time. I understand that you can only have one App open at a time or this can cause problems. I use the AutoFlight Logic V 3.3 App from time to time and I always make sure to close the Go App completely before using the AFL App. I do not mean that you simply close out of the App, I double tap the iPad button and slide the App closed so it is not running in the background.   So, I am not sure if this played a roll to this incident or not, but wanted to post this fact.

Rich

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-3-31 21:24
You never know

Denied again   

RichJ53 Posted at 2016-4-1 10:27
Ken

first of all this is a sad thing that happened, plus it is hard to read about it.  I feel lik ...

Thanks for the response Rich, It was not made known to me until a few days later when I saw the HealthyDrones screenshot and I saw it was Litchi that was controlling the aircraft.
I have never used Litchi and I do not know how it works, all I know from the flight records was a CSC was preformed. So maybe running both apps, Maybe.

microcyb Posted at 2016-4-1 10:41
Denied again

I never said that.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-3-31 19:59
Thanks for the response Rich, It was not made known to me until a few days later when I saw the He ...

Hi Ken,

I was on the beta testing group for the AFL software. I had a lot of fun using the new features on version 2. I remember that it was talked about on the SDK regarding only one App can be connected at any one time. This scared me enough that I did not want to take any chances ... So I still make a point to check everything out on my Go App, and shut it down. Right now we are testing the new version of AutoFlight Logic version 3.3 (beta again) Since my surgery, I have not been flying much do to pain Meds   . But I hope to try some of the new features when I am able. If you get a chance to check out the App, it has many nice features to enhance the Inspire / Phantom series aircraft.

PS
I liked FB and I am very sorry to see he had trouble and was banned from this forum. I really like that we have many types of folks here that contribute to the better good. Can anyone that was banned be allowed to come back in the future?  I hope this gets worked out.
thumbs up my friend
Rich J

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-4-1 02:37
Bryan, You were flying with Litchi in POI mode, The DJI wasn't even being used for flying while you ...

* Again, you were not even using the DJI app when your aircraft crashed.And when I meant half, you had 100% left stick bottom right corner and right stick 100% top right corner. *

Hi Ken
I'm not taking sides at all here, but I am concerned that 'extreme flying' and moving sticks 100% in certain directions is considered a possible factor to a crash or more specifically an implied unintentional CSC.  
There have been occasions when I have had my left stick 100% down as I descend and my right stick up changing the direction of flight. Sometimes a sweeping video shot you're after warrants that.

You've already changed the CSC command for the P4 (presumably to stop the ground dives after landing when shutting off), yet this isn't changed on all models and you're now implying that even a half CSC is risky.

Irrespective of whether the controller was on the table or being held, Bryan is a hugely experienced flyer and your continued reply is that there was a CSC at point of crash.  How can that be?  How could an experienced flyer make an unintentional CSC unless there is a fundamental design flaw that allows a CSC to be actioned by accident?

It seems the reason behind this crash is either
A, it fell out of the sky with no user input, or
B, an experienced flyer made an unintentional CSC for no reason.  

Either way, this is a real mess and it would be a huge relief to many people if this were sorted out by a proper, across the range update. The CSC could easily be instructed by toggling the S1 and S2 switched simultaneously. The number of threads on this proves how concerned people are.  It would be great if this could be sorted.

Cheers

Ian

wellsi Posted at 2016-4-1 14:49
* Again, you were not even using the DJI app when your aircraft crashed.And when I meant half, you ...

Ian, I know Bryan is an experienced user and I never said he was not.
All I was saying is a CSC was done and the only thing I saw on the flight record is what I posted.
But again, he was not even using the GO app and he was flying with the Litchi app so maybe the lesson is not to have both apps running at the same time. I don't know because I've never used anything other than DJI's app.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-4-1 08:13
Ian, I know Bryan is an experienced user and I never said he was not.
All I was saying is a CSC wa ...

And again, I agree with this; you only have the flight logs to rely on. But my point is that of the two possible reasons, the one the flight logs imply is in itself a very unsatisfactory reason; if an experienced flyer can do an unintentional CSC, what hope is there for others?  It's about the ease of an unintentional CSC, the variety of methods now available for CSCs, and the fact that a more avoidable combination of controls is possible, but not implemented.  
Maybe one to hand to your R&D guys and get improved.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-3-31 23:19
Bryan F4F posted the portion of the video I had asked for. He was flying with the Litchi app as well ...

Thank you Tim. So using a third-party app without closing the DJI Go App can lead to huge problems?

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-3-31 23:19
Bryan F4F posted the portion of the video I had asked for. He was flying with the Litchi app as well ...

The post is now parked in a more quiet area of the forum: from Phantom > Discussion to Service > Forum Issue. Quite crazy because i can't see a forum problem in this thread. Speaking of forum improvements it would be nice if in a very popular thread we can jump directly in the last page from the home of the forum.

leo.s Posted at 2016-4-1 17:32
The post is now parked in a more quiet area of the forum: from Phantom > Discussion to Service > F ...

I agree with you and I have inquired about it. It would be nice if there was a "last page" tab
So we'll see.
And I have never flown with another app let alone two at the same time. I'd figure signals may get crossed.

Now that this thread has mellowed, for anyone returning to this thread,

   

I'd like to add some additional independent technical commentary. I have no dog in this fight, but do admit to a deep respect for this amazing photographic & aviation technology! The intent is not to argue or dispute or win or lose. Simply to comment with another opinion -

  I downloaded FlyinB's Flight Data Recorder FLY163.DAT file from Dropbox after he posted the link and independently analyzed it. The opinions stated here are my own, based on the data in the log files and nothing more than just another opinion… This is the aircraft DAT file log, not the mobile device .TXT log submitted to Healthy Drones.

The flight data file matches the flight FlyinB submitted to Healthy Drones dtd March 25th @ 6:58 PM for a flight of only 1 minute and 14 seconds. According to the Aircraft Flight Data recorder log, the Aircraft was under power for 5 minutes and 43.7 seconds. It was inflight only 1 minute and 18 seconds (78400 msec). Healthy Drones analyzes the mobile device .TXT log and you will see that the aircraft .DAT log agrees with the data in the .TXT log.

  This flight appears, perhaps, to be a continuation flight after FLY162, which was the longer 15 minute flight across the highway and return. Despite the discussion that this was a single flight, the log shows a specific motor start, takeoff, and flight for only 1 minute and 18.4 seconds. The short flight, FLY163, took off, climbed to about 8 meters and was commanded into a hotpoint (POI) mission, climbing to 43 meters. This flight began with only 23.99469763% battery level, triggered a low battery RTH at 14.273 volts and then appears to have fought between the RTH command and the mission. The battery functioned completely within normal parameters throughout the flight and crash.

  

  At 44 secs of battery power, a CSC commanded the motors to start. The aircraft took off at 46 secs of power and slowly climbed to about 8 meters.

  On the aircraft side, the flight controller receives aileron, elevator, throttle, and rudder values. FlyinB’s startup CSC looks like this in the log file. A max stick deflection is -10000 for left/down and 10000 for right /up. A neutral stick is 0.

  

Startup_CSC

  At about 39.5 secs into the flight, the aircraft began climbing to 43.3 meters and started the POI around the house. At 1 minute and 11.5 secs of flight, the battery (5630 [Ctrl<11>] REQ_BATTERY NAVI_GO_HOME ctrl_navi_go_home) invoked a low battery RTH at 14.273 volts.

  

  The RTH triggered a climb to the RTH altitude of 50 meters and the aircraft turned to head home, but something (probably Litchi) tried to turn the aircraft back to the mission path. It appears that the programs fought for control for about 7 seconds and the commanded stick combinations resulted in a CSC at 1 minute 18.4 seconds or 78400 msecs. (5976 [M. Stop]REQ_RC_NORMAL|5976 Motor Start  1 Total   78.48|5976 CTRL reset all by motor stopped | 5976 [ACT.msg] ACT_GO_HOME motor stopped!)

The log shows that the commanded stick movements for a CSC started at 1 minute 17.9 seconds and continued until the motors stopped at 1 minute 18.4 seconds.

      <------- CSC

Lessons Learned:

  Pilots must maintain situational awareness by maintaining control of their aircraft, scanning the GO App for battery levels, alert messages, and take controlling actions when necessary. I believe that running both the GO App and Litchi contributed to this crash. I think taking off with only 23.9% battery also contributed to this accident. If Bryan says that he never touched the controls, then likely the two programs were fighting for control and flew the aircraft into autonomous CSC stick commands. Regardless, the motors shutdown because of a commanded CSC.

terrylewis Posted at 2016-4-2 12:47
Now that this thread has mellowed, for anyone returning to this thread,
   I'd like to add some addi ...

WOW Terry.
That is some analysis.

terrylewis Posted at 2016-4-2 05:47
Now that this thread has mellowed, for anyone returning to this thread,
   I'd like to add some addi ...

Terry, that is an excellent piece of analysis.  Well done and thanks for being so informative.

A real shame that this level of explanation wasn't made clear in the earlier threads, as it would have helped defuse much of the frustration being aired by everyone, both conspiracists and others simply worried or concerned about an apparent CSC from an experienced flyer that would not make such a mistake.
I guess the simple message is don't use two apps to fly at the same time, and especially do not use one to override any automatic RTH function.

Cheers,
Ian

terrylewis Posted at 2016-4-2 05:47
Now that this thread has mellowed, for anyone returning to this thread,
   I'd like to add some addi ...

That is awesome work Terry. Thank you.

As a new P3A pilot, this was what I wanted from the thread initially so I could learn from it.

Cheers

terrylewis Posted at 2016-4-2 05:47
Now that this thread has mellowed, for anyone returning to this thread,
   I'd like to add some addi ...

Very interesting analysis. If it were a case of the craft receiving autonomous course correction commands to countermand the effects of the RTH movements, and these at one point were equivalent to a CSC, it could be avoided by the DJI SDK blocking CSC equivalent actions from an app.

I can't think of a good reason to allow an app to perform a CSC so if the DJI SDK currently allows automated joystick movements tantamount to a CSC to be honoured, I'm sure DJI could write in some sanity checking to prevent them happening.

I wonder if any app developers know if the SDK currently allows a CSC joystick movement by code...

Another thought: given that an RTH outside a 20m radius will initiate a climb to 20m and then onto the RTH fail safe height during which any throttle commands will cancel the climb, if an app were to fight against the RTH, it's conceivable the aircraft would cancel any climb above 20m and come back flying low.

Having said that, I read there is currently a bug in the P3 SDK that prevents RTH working whilst under control of a third party app when the signal is lost - it just hovers until critical battery and descends in place.

I wonder if the new CSC method for the P4 makes it immune to app controlled joystick movements that look like CSCs.

terrylewis Posted at 2016-4-2 14:47
Now that this thread has mellowed, for anyone returning to this thread,
   I'd like to add some addi ...

That's an awesome piece of work Terry!

The only (minor) point I'd make is that in aviation a commanded input usually refers to a control input physically made by the pilot. Since the CSC was (so it seems) at least partially made by software it would still be classified as an un-commanded event.

I also agree, with davidson_g that a software generated CSC should be impossible and  in my view represents a software bug and again highlights the inappropriateness of a CSC that uses any flight controls.

I only use one program at a time but i think that CSC command is the worst thing DJI has inputted into their drones.