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Inspire 1 Pro complete failure and loss
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4181 62 2016-4-17
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josh
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Canada
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-5-16 12:35
Josh,
What is your ticket number, i want to look into this?
You said Healthy Drones said it was a  ...

Dat file isn't available, camera with gimball is lost after crash, I don't have time to waste with DJI, I'll let my lawyer deal with it... That's what I pay him for...



The reply from DJI in my transcript - sent back from DJI was below-

From: DJI support.us [mailto:support.us@dji.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 5:52 PM
To: josh@wepc.ca
Subject: Re: chat

already at 24 degree full speed forward, its still getting push back,
too windy
and he fly to 4000 meters away......
No warranty.


That's all I need....


Case: 284308

Cheers,

Josh
2016-5-18
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josh
lvl.1

Canada
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stormtrooper101 Posted at 2016-5-17 00:35
Josh... First off, sorry about the crash... that's a lot of money to see driven into the ground.   ...

I'm not denying that I flew outside the relm of the TC regulations, but that isn't the issue....
The issue is that a failed battery caused the crash of the drone, and that is a warranty issue...
2016-5-18
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josh
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Canada
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nigelw Posted at 2016-5-17 11:39
"I'm just saying you should respect DJI for allowing you to experience the best available and if y ...

Obviously Leanlinao has some vested interest with DJI.....
That comment is comical... sounds like the Redguard's response to Chairman Mao!
lol
2016-5-18
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leanlinao
First Officer
Flight distance : 1495906 ft
Philippines
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josh@wepc.ca Posted at 2016-5-18 23:49
Obviously Leanlinao has some vested interest with DJI.....
That comment is comical... sounds like  ...

What is that supposed to mean anyway haha

The way dji replied to you is weird.
He talks about wind, distance and full forward pitch. Non of those matter if your battery really failed unless you hacked the battery to not limit by using older firmware which the dji support guy didn't say so prolly not.
The inspire 1.. it's range system is designed for 5 km and the height distance is unlimited as long as you got more than enough battery, the original manual even says 4500m of height maximum and no one says you shouldn't fly with full stick.
The dji guy is basically making excuses to say no to you. Although I guess his point is that if you were flying low and in no wind you could have avoided this. With my point even at that altitude this could have been avoided by descending because you had time to react. Non of those matter though because the main and initial cause is still battery failure which is pretty rare so you should at least get a full repair. Back to what I was talking about sometimes they do and sometimes they don't, well I can tell you the dji guy is making excuses to say no. But hopefully you get back flying again
2016-5-18
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DJI-Ken
DJI team
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josh@wepc.ca Posted at 2016-5-18 23:41
Dat file isn't available, camera with gimball is lost after crash, I don't have time to waste with  ...

Josh,
I'm trying to help you out so please work with me.
If indeed this was a battery issue I can help out, let's get the DAT file from the flight data recorder if possible. You do not need the camera, if the aircraft will power up normally that that's all we need. From the Main Controller Settings tab, go to Advanced Settings and tap Enter Flight Data Mode and follow the instructions.
The USB port is in the read of the aircraft just above the battery compartment.
Copy the DAT files to your computer and then upload FLY077.DAT to Dropbox and post the link here. If the aircraft is unable to power up then you will need to send it in so the data analysis team can pull the flight data recorder logs.
And even if I can help you get it repaired under warranty they need the aircraft. In Canada you are responsible for the shipping to get it here BUT, I can get that covered for you.



So it's totally up to you if you want to work with me and see if we can get this resolved and possibly get it taken care of.
2016-5-18
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josh
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Canada
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-5-18 12:44
Josh,
I'm trying to help you out so please work with me.
If indeed this was a battery issue I can  ...

Here's the problem Ken,

I'v been told that there was no warranty by DJI already....
It's in writing, so why are you posting on a public form that suddenly there is a warranty?

It's obvious what is happening here, it's called damage control.
From the start the issue was that a new battery overheated, a cell failed and the unit fell out of the sky at 640ish ft....
I'm not playing the game, the answer was given by DJI 2 weeks ago, it's been over a month since the incident happened and I was proactive in my approach on this.
If it takes that long to get someone involved that has some clout, DJI has failed horribly.
I have multiple transcripts of the back and forth via DJI Support Fourm, the hours spent on the phone, the emails.... I just can't justify wasting anymore time...  
  I don't have time to waste on this, I will not spend anymore time on this.  

EVERYONE WHO READS THIS BE WARNED
2016-5-18
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josh
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Canada
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leanlinao Posted at 2016-5-18 12:33
What is that supposed to mean anyway haha

The way dji replied to you is weird.

No offense intended, just never heard of anyone being that enamored with a product to describe it as a privilege to use it...
2016-5-18
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DJI-Ken
DJI team
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josh@wepc.ca Posted at 2016-5-19 01:39
Here's the problem Ken,

I'v been told that there was no warranty by DJI already....

You are mistaking my attempt to assist you in trying to create some kind of damage control. I can assure you that is not the case as I was only stepping in and trying to help out.
I never said anything about it now being a warranty, as of now it still is NON-WARRANTY.  I said let's see the data from the flight controller in the aircraft and see if it could possibly be covered.

I was trying to assist you you have declined my assistance. I am sorry you feel that way.
2016-5-18
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josh
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Canada
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-5-18 14:19
You are mistaking my attempt to assist you in trying to create some kind of damage control. I can  ...

I'm sorry I feel this way as well, what makes me feel even more sorry is that it took over a month for someone from DJI to "assist" in this case.. Fantastic cusomter service!
Too bad that DJI told me there was no warranty already So why are you implying you can help me?

Don't understand your logic....



DJI has already made their point clear, we'll let a judge decide if a defective battery is a warranty issue or not!



I am asking for a refund in the lawsuit, I do not want to have the liability of a falling drone on my head.  Obviously there is a issue with the TB48 batteries as many user are expirencing the same thing.

2016-5-18
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DJI-Ken
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josh@wepc.ca Posted at 2016-5-19 02:48
I'm sorry I feel this way as well, what makes me feel even more sorry is that it took over a month  ...

Josh, again I told you I was trying to help and see if there's anything I could do by getting more data from you and having them re-evaluate your case.
You chose not to accept my assistance, if you have any further questions about this you can reply to the email thread and someone can answer any questions you have.
2016-5-18
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josh
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Canada
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-5-18 15:15
Josh, again I told you I was trying to help and see if there's anything I could do by getting more ...

Again..
Too bad that DJI told me there was no warranty already So why are you implying you can help me?

2016-5-18
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josh
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Canada
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-5-18 15:15
Josh, again I told you I was trying to help and see if there's anything I could do by getting more ...

They made a snap assumption without looking at all the data, now they have to deal with the ramifications of it...
What has been done has been done, the time to rectify it has passed as well.  DJI can deal with my lawyer and offer a full refund for the inspire 1, x 5 camera, 12mm Olympus lens.
2016-5-18
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leanlinao
First Officer
Flight distance : 1495906 ft
Philippines
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josh@wepc.ca Posted at 2016-5-19 05:00
They made a snap assumption without looking at all the data, now they have to deal with the ramifi ...

1 dji telling you no warrnty doesn't mean it's over. Another dji guy can still help you get your warranty. Going to court doesn't ensure anything as dji can still make excuses of flying over country limits which is a valid excuse. But it's your choice what to do.
2016-5-18
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stormtrooper101
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josh@wepc.ca Posted at 2016-5-18 11:47
I'm not denying that I flew outside the relm of the TC regulations, but that isn't the issue....
T ...

I looked at the battery telemetry from healthy drone, and given the beating you put to the inspire, they were holding up surprisingly well.  Based on what I saw from all the data interpreted by healthy drone, I believe you were full left and right stick for the majority of your flight - probably bouncing off the operational ceiling at 1200'ish feet in altitude.   My guess is you cooked the battery to that high temperature and weren't monitoring that data when you were flying all out for several minutes.  When you received the overtemp warning, you were still several thousand feet away and had no back up plan to get you out of trouble.  

You can blame the battery for the inspire falling to the ground from a thousand feet... but I'm not convinced that was the reason for the crash.

Still wish you luck with your suit against DJI, and sorry it was a very expensive lesson for you.  Remember it would have been significantly worse if someone on the ground was struck by your inspire.
2016-5-22
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PeteGould
Second Officer

United States
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I've been away from the forum during the winter and this thread caught my eye.

josh@wepc.ca Posted at 2016-5-18 17:00
They made a snap assumption without looking at all the data, now they have to deal with the ramifi ...


Warranties are not absolute.  In the fine print of every warranty are the exceptions and disclaimers.  The notes on your case indicate that you flew the Inspire well outside its performance envelope, against the recommendations in the manual, and in violation of applicable law.  This violates the terms of the warranty and based on the expressed terms of the warranty DJI does not have to cover the loss.  It is highly unlikely you would prevail in a small claim if DJI is represented. Therefore if you have a DJI rep stepping in and offering to help you, it is probably in your interest to graciously accept the help instead of spitting in the guy's face.  My $0.02.

Let me help interpret what they sent you:

already at 24 degree full speed forward, its still getting push back,
too windy
and he fly to 4000 meters away......
No warranty.

The manual warns not to fly in high winds, at excessive altitude (beyond 400' AGL) or beyond line of sight.  They are saying you flew in such a high wind that even at 24 degree full speed forward, the aircraft is still losing ground because of the high winds (thus you flew in conditions that were "too windy" - probably because of your excessive altitude which was far in excess of the 400' AGL maximum) and you flew to beyond 4,000 meters (well beyond line of sight), therefore "no warranty" (as in, "warranty coverage does not apply because customer violated the terms of the warranty").  They are not saying there is no warranty coverage on an Inspire.  They are saying you do not qualify to receive such coverage.

So, as I suggested - you might want to rethink your approach to DJI-Ken, who has always been a straight shooter here and is obviously trying to help you IN SPITE OF THE FACT THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE TO.  And for the reasons given, despite his best efforts he may not be able to do better than the company's offer of a steep discount on a replacement.  Heck, they could have told you you'd have to pay full retail and they would probably be on solid ground.

Or you can go the small claims route and hope that DJI defaults by failing to show up.  Much more likely, though, is that they will have an attorney move the case out of the small claims session to regular court to set the appropriate precedent (that when you violate the terms of the warranty, you cannot expect warranty coverage).  Yes, the Canadian system has good customer protection laws - but even in Canada, if you do things that are expressly disclaimed by the warranty, and the company can demonstrate a direct connection between violating those terms and the damage you experienced, you are unlikely to prevail.

Your choice, of course.  I've been pretty up-front in the past when DJI has been in the wrong.  On this one - I don't think they are.



2016-5-25
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aerofilm.pt
First Officer
Flight distance : 1142375 ft
Portugal
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Josh,
I really understand your case...
But if you don't wan't wast more time with this why keep on replying with the same "NO" to Ken?
Just check that data log, what time can that take?
What Ken said is that for the moment is a NON-Warranty, is "for the moment", because they have no proof!
Don't take me wrong, i'm not on no one side, just you should take this opportunity ;)
2016-5-27
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RearViewMirror
lvl.4
United States
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stormtrooper101 Posted at 2016-5-22 18:51
I looked at the battery telemetry from healthy drone, and given the beating you put to the inspire ...

This exactly ^^

That is what I was thinking the whole time I read this thread. I've very sorry for your loss. That is a lot of money that just fell out of the sky.

But... from what you describe and your flight logs I "personally" think there is a "possibility" that you may have overcooked the system flying at such extremes. Maybe I'm too cautious but I scout out my exact flight path LONG before I ever put the craft in the air. I've never seen a need to go full stick either. I'm not in any hurry when I put it in the air because I already "know" what I want to record. I have way too much invested in mine to ever consider flying at that altitude, speed, and distance.  

I wish you luck with a positive outcome but you already admitted you flew out of regulations set forth by law. I have a hard time believing a Judge is really going to be very kind warranty issue or not. What I personally take out of reading this entire thread is the craft was flown to the limits of its capability and failed.
2016-5-27
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leanlinao
First Officer
Flight distance : 1495906 ft
Philippines
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But actually this guy had a battery failure in a location so cold that it has snow. You simply can't cook a battery at that climate. For me I fly hard a lot but at a warm and hot 35-40c climate and I don't get overheating.
This being in a 0-5c climate would definitely be a battery failure but it could have been avoided in a few ways. Still the initial cause is battery failure
2016-5-27
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leanlinao
First Officer
Flight distance : 1495906 ft
Philippines
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I got a v1 motor though with a 1345T prop system.

I don't know how the v2 motors work on the battery temps
2016-5-27
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RearViewMirror
lvl.4
United States
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leanlinao Posted at 2016-5-27 22:22
But actually this guy had a battery failure in a location so cold that it has snow. You simply can't ...

Initial cause is battery failure true. But I think it's possible even in colder climates to fly it to an extreme that would cause this type of issue. Especially at full stick, extreme distance, and altitude. Just my  opinion of course. What will surprise me more is the outcome when the Judge (if it ever gets that far) will look favorably upon this case since the craft was flown "way" outside of regulations set forth?

I hope for a positive outcome and please don't take this as being argumentative. It's just what I perceive.  
2016-5-27
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leanlinao
First Officer
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RearViewMirror Posted at 2016-5-28 11:29
Initial cause is battery failure true. But I think it's possible even in colder climates to fly it ...

I fly mine with atti full stick too but not too far and I do take breaks and check battery temperature. I only use the rudder a little, mostly pitch forward and roll at the same time to maintain cornering speed I wonder how much G force the inspire is experiencing in 80 kmh cornering
I also check the screws on the prop hub and it does get a little unscrewed every 5 flights cause I could tighten them a little. But when I see the voltage at 3.50v I do slow down to increase voltage again. And I check the battery temps every 2-3 minutes. Climate is usually at 35c.
Anyway no one says flying fast is illegal and I know the inspire 1's carbon, aluminum and high grade plastic is up for the job.

2016-5-27
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cindybrown
lvl.1
South Africa
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josh@wepc.ca Posted at 2016-5-13 21:15
It was a failed cell  (cell 1) that caused the crash-
http://www.healthydrones.com/main?flight=e331f ...

I might have to do the same thing - shocking support for their products!!
2016-5-29
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stormtrooper101
lvl.2
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leanlinao Posted at 2016-5-27 23:22
But actually this guy had a battery failure in a location so cold that it has snow. You simply can't ...

The weather that day in Bristol QC was almost +12c, and although there was snow on the ground it was probably almost gone for the season.  Your right, there isn't any law against flying fast however I think that monitoring the vitals of what you're flying is important at any time.  I've flown in very cold temperatures - not fast and not far, and I monitor my system continuously.  I don't want a failure, and if I encounter an issue, I want to be able to get myself out of it, or safely ditch the quad so that people or property don't get hurt.  
2016-5-29
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