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Aerial Photography for Profit Question
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2941 69 2016-4-19
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scott3
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Do any of you charge for a service to take aerial pictures of businesses?  If so, how much do you charge?

Thanks,

Scott
2016-4-19
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connorschulte
lvl.4
Flight distance : 261030 ft
United States
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I've actually been working on starting my own. Our website is: http://austinbyair.xyz we're still working on pricing, but we have a client area, invoice, and email system setup already.
2016-4-19
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stalked-buddha
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Tip: the author has been banned or deleted automatically shield
2016-4-19
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scott3
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Well, I certainly would want to be compensated, but I wouldnt have to go through all the legal stuff.  Slap two twenties in my hand and we'll call it good!
2016-4-19
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scott3
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connorschulte Posted at 2016-4-20 05:20
I've actually been working on starting my own. Our website is: http://austinbyair.xyz we're still wo ...

Do you have a business license and everything?
2016-4-19
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quickpoint
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United States
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scott3 Posted at 2016-4-19 17:30
Well, I certainly would want to be compensated, but I wouldnt have to go through all the legal stuff ...

In order to do things legally it's quite pricey in the us.  Need Faa 333 exception. 1-1500$ to have a company draft your 30-80 pages.  Then 4-6 months of waiting.  It's a big long process that's expensive and frustating.   Oh yeah.  You need a sport pilots license as well.....     Google commercial drone 333 and get ready to be angry.
2016-4-19
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leorvasquez
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I have already had some small business owners contact me about doing some aerial photography and videography. I agree it is too much just to do little something for some small business owners. I am not going to jump through hoops to shoot a little video like I already do except for a few bucks. Like scott3 said, I'll only being doing it for a few bucks anyway. :-)
2016-4-19
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scott3
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leorvasquez Posted at 2016-4-20 06:34
I have already had some small business owners contact me about doing some aerial photography and vid ...

Thats kind of what I was thinking, yeah.  Under the table, if you will....
2016-4-19
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nigelw
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United Kingdom
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That's the thing though, it's easy to get small jobs cash in hand without permission, but once you're legal you can charge top rates so it becomes worth doing.
2016-4-19
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igot2n0
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United States
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No, I do not do aerial photography for profit. Last week I had a construction consulting firm contact me to inquire about services. I declined. I am not in a hurry. Reports are that by the end of the year that the FAA is likely to issue rules for commercial use that have few restrictions for micro drone, or drones weighting under 4.4 pounds. I will wait until then.
2016-4-19
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labroides
Captain
Flight distance : 9991457 ft
Australia
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When you ask " If so, how much do you charge?"
That's like asking how much does a car cost.
You can buy a cheap car or an expensive car or one thats cost is through the roof.
It depends on lots of factors and there's no simple answer.
2016-4-19
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connorschulte
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scott3 Posted at 2016-4-19 16:45
Do you have a business license and everything?

Still waiting for approval.
2016-4-19
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quickpoint
Second Officer

United States
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igot2n0 Posted at 2016-4-19 18:41
No, I do not do aerial photography for profit. Last week I had a construction consulting firm contac ...

its been by the end of the year sense 2014.......
2016-4-19
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AerialZ
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If you're serious about doing commercial aerial photography/videography for profit, I suggest you spend some time doing hardcore research. There is a ton of information available online, including how to submit your 333 Exemption request yourself (without paying an attorney.)
Yes, it's quite a process to figure out on your own, but if you're dedicated, you will discover much information that will help you along the way. Everyone is upset and scared of the 333 Exemption because it is built upon regulations that were set LONG before UAS/small 'drones' became popular and exploded in growth. I assure you that the FAA is changing the regulations as to how they impact UAS and the aerial photography platforms that we love. The process is active now and the question remains, how long will it take? Is it worth to get your 333 as soon as possible? There is a strong possibility that those holding a current 333 will be grand-fathered into the new regulations and requirements.

It becomes a matter of time and effort on your behalf.
2016-4-19
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rodger
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You need a FAA 333. Legally you cannot charge. I wouldn't want to be looking over my shoulder all the time. Will you profit? Doubtful. There is always the kid down the street that will do it for nothing. Just like the Photography business.
2016-4-20
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dazzlers82
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I have a question on this subject thats some here may be able to answer for me???.  Im in the UK and have a p4, i took some pics of my workplace from above, we have a haulage firm and my boss see the images an really liked them. He said to me the follwing day thats a different view of the buisness ive not seen before and can i put them on the website?. Now i have said no because im not sure how it will stand as basically that is then used as advertising his company!! i would not have charged him for them as i only use my drone for photography as a hobby the same way i use my camera , and have gave him plenty of pictures of the wildlife in our yard, but how would that stand with me giving him drone images ??
2016-4-20
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SVTRay
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scott3 Posted at 2016-4-20 05:45
Do you have a business license and everything?

The key thing that holds 99% of U.S. drone owners from going commercial is a FAA Certified Pilots license. Everything else is relatively simple, but the operator of your drone must have a FAA certified Pilots license, no exceptions at this time.
I already have a business, LLC, and Tax ID, just don't have a pilots license and I'm not going to hire a certified pilot either.
2016-4-20
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Richard in Bois
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United States
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If the government had its way, you would have to be a licensed plumber to use the toilet.  
2016-4-20
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nigelw
First Officer
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dazzlers82 Posted at 2016-4-20 15:10
I have a question on this subject thats some here may be able to answer for me???.  Im in the UK and ...

The problem is, someone is benefiting from it.  As an employee, you may also benefit from it indirectly.

There's nothing stopping you from posting them on a sharing website & who knows, he might steel them.  But it's a bit risky for both of you.  Anyone can look up who is an approved operator & I suspect a few would be happy to mention it to the CAA if they felt they were losing business to amateurs.
For no money, I don't think it's worth it.
2016-4-20
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microcyb
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Within the United States, make sure whomever you use is fully licensed and has the proper FAA licensing for commercial work or you could be liable and get fined.

https://www.faa.gov/uas/legislat ... ction_333/333_faqs/
2016-4-20
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wellsi
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dazzlers82 Posted at 2016-4-20 15:10
I have a question on this subject thats some here may be able to answer for me???.  Im in the UK and ...

It's vague.  I personally don't agree with Nigel's stance (no offense Nige); he's right of course, but more along the lines of 'going 31 mph in a town is also illegal' type of right.....
The rules state you must not get financial gain.  So if you give them to your boss, you're not getting any more gain than anyone else employed in the firm.  To argue that the business will do better and you'll get more money through more wages is really pushing it IMHO.....  

As with so many of the rules and regs, they're there to prosecute when needed.  I think you'd be fine to give them to him.
Ian

2016-4-20
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FAS1
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scott3 Posted at 2016-4-19 17:30
Well, I certainly would want to be compensated, but I wouldnt have to go through all the legal stuff ...

Please don't devalue the industry. Thanks!
2016-4-20
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mjlstudios
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AerialZ Posted at 2016-4-19 23:02
If you're serious about doing commercial aerial photography/videography for profit, I suggest you sp ...

I went to the FAA site, 333 exemption section, read submissions others submitted, copied the submission that closely resembled what I needed, made some changes to it...ie. Name, Address, Phone number...etc. then submitted that to the FAA. It took less than 30 minutes and now I am in the waiting mode to hear back from FAA.   
2016-4-20
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nigelw
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wellsi Posted at 2016-4-20 19:49
It's vague.  I personally don't agree with Nigel's stance (no offense Nige); he's right of course, ...

None taken.  On reflection, like you say, it's a matter of how serious it is.

From what I've read online, the CAA don't generally prosecute even if you do get caught out first time.  They just issue a cease & desist notice.  I expect if you then continue, they might take it further.

I read somewhere they looked into youtube videos with adverts on, but said they weren't really bothered enough to do anything about it.
2016-4-20
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nigelw
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FAS1 Posted at 2016-4-20 19:51
Please don't devalue the industry. Thanks!

I thought the same initially, but it doesn't really devalue the industry.  Anyone wanting to employ a drone & pilot for serious work wouldn't even consider using someone who charges just a few dollars for their services & doesn't have the required permissions, in much the same way couples spending $20k on their wedding wouldn't employ a weekend photographer charging $100.
2016-4-20
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AerialZ
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The key here folks is QUALITY of work, not just what a piece of paper says. I've seen multiple 'professional 333-holders' that put out some pretty amateur'ish work. And plenty of them aren't following the rules as they are cited in the regulations. Just because you have your Single Engine Pilot License does NOT mean you can send your 22 year old son to a job alone because he's decent at flying the drone and enjoys it. That is NOT what the regulations state. I can go on youtube right now and bust an endless list of 'professional drone companies' that are screaming from their soapboxes about their licensing, yet operating their equipment unsafely, specifically in direct violation of their 333 Exemption.If you rant about your licensing and credentials, you probably shouldn't be posting demo videos of your work flying over Interstate highways and densely populated downtown areas because, "it was pretty." I don't think I've ever seen this many hypocrites in my life.

And besides, I have some professional aeromedical fixed & rotor wing background (not a pilot), but I can certainly tell you that a licensed single engine Cessna pilot is FAR from automatically being great quadcopter pilot just because they are certified to understand airspace regulations. Helicopter pilots or those with a true professional UAV background are the closest thing to true professional UAS Pilot's In Command, operating in confined, low altitude conditions with obstacles everywhere. It's complete apples and oranges in comparison. We're not flying at open airports.
I'm NOT dissing pilots in any capacity, but that license doesn't make you a professional drone operator. I have two licensed pilots in the family and both completely agree.

The 333 will be replaced soon with something (most likely the 107) that is actually appropriate for commercial UAS operations for money. Til then, sit tight, or do what I eluded to (and another poster is in process of), file for your 333 Exemption following the regulations as they are stated.

2016-4-20
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AG0N-Gary
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dazzlers82 Posted at 2016-4-20 09:10
I have a question on this subject thats some here may be able to answer for me???.  Im in the UK and ...

Even if you do it for free, he would be using it to make money (advertising his business).
2016-4-20
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evsjas
Second Officer
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United States
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The 107 would be nice.
2016-4-20
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labroides
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Flight distance : 9991457 ft
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microcyb Posted at 2016-4-21 02:28
Within the United States, make sure whomever you use is fully licensed and has the proper FAA licens ...

Are you sure about that?
There's nothing in the reference you  cite that suggests this.

2016-4-20
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labroides
Captain
Flight distance : 9991457 ft
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AG0N-Gary Posted at 2016-4-21 08:03
Even if you do it for free, he would be using it to make money (advertising his business).

But does that matter?
Only in a strict fundamentalist sense.
The authorities are not going to be hunting down everyone that gave a photo away to someone that might be in business.
They won't even bother tracking down someone that actually sold a photo or two.

The photos have been taken and quite legally too.
What's the crime in using them or selling them after the fact.
It's ridiculous to suggest that a flight and bit of photography done completely legally in the past can now become illegal if some money changes hands for the images.
Selling photos isn't a crime and regulating who can and can't sell photos is not something that the  FAA, CAA etc should be worried about.
2016-4-20
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aopisa
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mjlstudios Posted at 2016-4-21 03:18
I went to the FAA site, 333 exemption section, read submissions others submitted, copied the submi ...

I did the same thing and was rejected after 3 months of waiting. Screw it, I'm not going through that again.
2016-4-20
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dazzlers82
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labroides@yahoo Posted at 2016-4-21 01:05
But does that matter?
Only in a strict fundamentalist sense.
The authorities are not going to be hu ...

This is my issue there is so many different opinions on the subject, perhaps i should ring them an ask the question, or better email them so i have it in writing what they say.
2016-4-20
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labroides
Captain
Flight distance : 9991457 ft
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dazzlers82 Posted at 2016-4-21 17:09
This is my issue there is so many different opinions on the subject, perhaps i should ring them an ...

Don't worry ... the CAA will never know and couldn't care less.On a scale of lawbreaking 1-10, you'd rate about -50

If you ask them they would have to tell you what the law says.
2016-4-21
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bobasbury
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I think that the simpler your rate structure, the more attractive it is for your potential client.  I do not pursue business, but if someone asks,  I will shoot for them.  My deal is $100 per hour, $1 per mile.  One hour minimum.  That makes it easy.  Your numbers may vary, but my formula makes it simple to give "ballpark" estimates.  
2016-4-21
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microcyb
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labroides@yahoo Posted at 2016-4-20 20:02
Are you sure about that?
There's nothing in the reference you  cite that suggests this.

Yes, i am sure.  Recently many Real Estate agents have been getting fined.  Sure it is grey area and many people are doing it for money, but if someone reports your have areal photography or video for your business to make money, the FAA will request proof it was done with a commercial license.

http://www.faa.gov/news/press_re ... ry.cfm?newsId=19555

What are the main requirements needed for me to operate an unmanned aircraft or drone for my business?
A. You will need:
a Section 333 grant of exemption,
a Certificate of Waiver or Authorization (COA),
an aircraft registered with the FAA, and
a pilot with an FAA airman certificate

Granted, even posting on YouTube and you have it flagged for monetize, the FAA could also go after you, but thankfully they really just don't care that much to even bother due to limited staff and resources.

However, they have are now meeting down in Florida about this and also have been working or changing that outdated law to allow "Micro-Drones"  to obtain a commercial license without the whole 333 requirement.
2016-4-21
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labroides
Captain
Flight distance : 9991457 ft
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microcyb Posted at 2016-4-21 23:35
Yes, i am sure.  Recently many Real Estate agents have been getting fined.  Sure it is grey area a ...

Not quite.  I think you'll find that no real estate agents have been fined by the FAA for using non-333 drone images.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/greg ... raphy/#3f6ba5a2b95d

"But, while the use of drones for commercial purposes is prohibited by the FAA, the use of images or video from drones is not prohibited by the agency which only has jurisdiction over air space, not over the use of footage. "

As for the popular myth that posting youtube videos is commercial use:
The FAA put out a policy guidance:  https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Notice/N_8900.292.pdf
... that says:
"Inspectors have no authority to direct or suggest that electronic media posted on the Internet must be removed. Note: Electronic media posted on a video Web site does not automatically constitute a commercial operation or commercial purpose, or other non-hobby or non-recreational use. "
2016-4-21
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microcyb
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labroides@yahoo Posted at 2016-4-21 10:03
Not quite.  I think you'll find that no real estate agents have been fined by the FAA for using non ...

Hopefully they will finally get to the point where small businesses have no worries at all.  I would think that having insurance, and compliance all flight laws are followed there would be no issue for businesses to use a UAS for commercial use.
http://dronelawjournal.com/




2016-4-21
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gerald
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I have a video production business and I film events with my camera gear and people pay for my video services. No one is paying me for drone flights. They are paying for a finished video project that happens to include drone footage. The customer paid for my editing skills not camera footage. Does that make sense?
2016-4-21
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quickpoint
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gerald@theberzi Posted at 2016-4-21 12:02
I have a video production business and I film events with my camera gear and people pay for my video ...

its grey area and faa doesn't care how things get worded.  even with out editing and no charges at all in the faa's eyes it is still commercial.   even if your not selling anything and giving it away for free still commercial.   really stupid over all.  

what your saying does make sense, but the rules and regs in effect dont.    even if you sell packages that have free drone flight and editing, no charge for any drone stuff its still "illegal" with out 333 and all other bs that goes with it
2016-4-21
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AerialZ
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Hype and fear rules right now, which the FAA is quite happy about. They would consider this an accomplishment, considering their regulations are the 'grayest' and a complete mess. 333-Exemption holders operating commercially won't be giggling to the bank much longer. Trust me, there are very few actual licensed pilots behind the sticks. Having a pilot on your staff is much different from them being present at every 'commercial shoot'. This drives me nuts more than any other aspect of the current ridiculous regulations and how people choose to interpret them.
"But, while the use of drones for commercial purposes is prohibited by the FAA, the use of images or video from drones is not prohibited by the agency which only has jurisdiction over air space, not over the use of footage. "I've heard this exact statement used several different times.
Good luck prosecuting a drone operator that sold some of his footage. Has anyone heard of a single case? There's a reason... The FAA knows this. This threat tactic will NEVER hold-up in court. BUT, if you strike an aircraft with a UAS and cause great personal injury or property damage, you're pretty much screwed (as you should be.)


Worry about being the best Phantom pilot and photographer you can be until this dust settles.
2016-4-21
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