tokenbrit Posted at 2016-4-27 05:03
Interesting that the P4 is considered safe for beginners, yet the best advice from the forum is "r ...

True,  we CAN all read the manuals,  but sadly,  almost no one does.  And we Can give detailed answers for all the possible problems,  but then we will have to do it again tomorrow,  because no one can be bothered to do a search for their problem and then read the stuff that has been posted countless times.  All the answers are here on the forum.  But at some point,  users have to take on the task of doing their own home work. I usually enjoy helping people when I can,  and even feel obligated to try to answer questions.  Some on here have actually reached a point where they have a list of stock answers to copy and paste,  because it is easier than typing the same thing over and over.    I don't think anyone really minds helping out. But everyone eventually reaches the frustration point of giving terse answers like,  RTFM.  But at least they answer.  And the fact is,  the info IS in the manual,  which anyone who purchases a sophisticated,  expensive piece of equipment  should read.  Probably 95 percent of the questions asked on here are basically reposts that have been answered zillions of times.  But we still lurk,  waiting patiently for the new or unusual problem to sink our teeth into.  And frequently we ignore posts that are the same old same old.  But sometimes you just feel compelled to say,  RTFM.
  

gtokarsk Posted at 2016-5-3 23:27
but if for some weird reason you'd lose signal, that would really stink! Unlikely, but a risk! I w ...

   gtokarsk said < "60 feet radius is QUITE a Distance", > First off why does someone push the RTH when they are 60 feet from where they took off from ?  I  think the programmers were thinking that if you are within the 60 feet of the takeoff point and you press RTH you  want it to land RIGHT NOW  for whatever reason.
Also keep in Mind , when the RTH is pressed the aircraft FIRST  goes to a pre-determined altitude that you set, In my area that is 50 meters,  ( 160 feet ) to get over the tallest object, so if I am within 60 feet and want to RTH I would never press RTH because it is going to over  double that distance in just the climb out. Also when you are within 60 feet , you are usually at the end of a mission and low on battery, by tasking the battery with a forced ascent you risk sucking the last bit of juice out of the battery and add the possibility of a crash.  

I heard the reasoning was for those who fly indoors at close distance, they would not want to have the climb out and hitting the top of the ceiling.  There are alwyas going to have to be compromises in programming .  


I respectfully disagree - donnie

Ha! Donnie, I think you may have gotten it!, as far as reasoning behind it Interesting! Yes, if you are flying indoors that would totally make sense, but if you are indoors without GPS does RTH work? I guess it is totally "land now", so based on all the other aircraft with that functionality, I would still say this needs to be decided by the user, as to what behavior they want. But still, it works as it works, and that is that. You GOT to know your aircraft and all the procedures and their behavior, before you fly, or accidents happen. Whether we agree now or not, is inconsequential.. Now, if DJI wants to consider such discussions and change things based on it, well, that would be great. I would definitely welcome another set of settings in the app, to control this behavior.

gtokarsk Posted at 2016-5-4 11:33
Ha! Donnie, I think you may have gotten it!, as far as reasoning behind it Interesting! Yes, if you  ...

I have to admit this functionality makes no sense to me.  Call me lazy, but there have been times when I've finished the mission that I planned to do and hit the RTH to bring the drone back automatically - on my previous drone, it was basically the quickest way to bring it back - particularly on a low battery where orienting the drone could take an extra moment or two.  Yes I know that the DJI software has the ability to bring it back towards home, regardless of orientation - I like that. It just makes no sense to me that it will land within 60 feet - why, why, why???

As I mentioned before, I'm grateful to the forum member for raising the topic - my lack-of-manual-reading could have resulted in a splashdown, while I was enjoying my tea.

sploodge Posted at 2016-4-27 06:06
Like Frank said.. Its hos its designed.. I suggest you have a read of the manual to become more fami ...

when you bought your last car or motorcycle did you read the manual from cover-to-cover before you drove it? Probably not, why? - because you expect the car to go when you hit the gas and stop when you apply the brakes.

The Phantom is an amazing aircraft and I really enjoy what it can do - but it has some quirky functionality like CSC and this RTH functionality that is just asking for trouble - is there anything else?

tokenbrit Posted at 2016-5-4 15:22
when you bought your last car or motorcycle did you read the manual from cover-to-cover before you ...

Just for the sake of the debate, the two things don't really compare.  Cars have been around for an awfully long time.  There is really not much new happening in the basic transportation owned by the average family.  On the other hand,  a civilian UAV can fairly be called cutting edge technology.  Maybe even Bespoke technology.  I someone wants to buy something like that,  having nothing but the most basic clue of  what it can do.  well,  that is their right.  But,  once they discover that they are in over their heads,  well,  they should not try to make their problem our problem.  How hard is it,  really,  to do a simple keyword search for the subject you are having an issue with.  Most new posters appear to believe that their problem is unique in the history of man and only they have delved into the deep far enough to have encountered this trouble.  So they create a post that is mostly incoherent,  because they have not even bothered to learn what the various parts of the machine are called.    Or they post something like, "  My fantom wont work.  Why?"
Believe it or not,  I read the manual cover to cover for every product I buy,  unless it is one I have had before and I am well familiar with it.  I do not always remember everything I read,  but I do read.  I do this because,  more than just a few times,  I find something in the manual that I did not know, something that is very useful..
So,  speaking for myself,  as an imperfect being,  it seems perfectly reasonable to occasionally reply to someones question with the basic,  "  It's in the manual.  RTFM"


Your turn

DJI-Paladin Posted at 2016-4-27 22:37
Hello Richard, you can play back this flight record in DJI GO. Please pay attention to the distance  ...

I feel this option is 100% illogical and totally unnecessary. I read the manual, and unfortunately I forgot about this feature. I activated returned home, but didn't realize that I was within the limits, and the bird landed right into a tree branch, and fell to the ground from there. That is my only accident to date, & I am still trying to save up enough cash to purchase a new gimble and camera for my bird, as it was destroyed in the accident. DJI, please remove this ridiculous unnecessary functionality from your product.

I agree the RTH landing immediately is illogical. I had a case I was close to the home point and close to the ground - I pressed RTH thinking the drone would rise and then land where it took off - no - it landed immediately before I could cancel it - right into tall grass - it flipped on its side - no damage.
Then I was flying close to me over a cliff at a quarry - pressed RTH to have it rise and land where it took off - no - it started descending into the quarry - I canceled it and manually landed.
I understand DJI does has concerns about RTM indoors - but I don't fly indoor and I would like an option to turn this illogical "feature" off so RTM always rises and then returns to the exact home position.

I... can't... stop.. myself....  
I have been complaining about this behavior ever since my first and ONLY crash occurred because the bird was within 65 feet of home base and dropped straight down when RTH initiated.  Dropped unexpectedly into a small tree.  IT... MAKES... NO... SENSE....  for the P4 to just drop wherever it is... into a tree, into tall grass, into water?  NOPE.  Not right.  If there is a good home point set, good GPS, good VPS...  then RTH should not just drop the bird 20 meters from the home point.  

Lets face it... in a perfect world, we should have a football field of space around us to take off and land... but in the real world, we are often testing our skills a bit and taking off with a minimal amount of safe horizontal space... from our back yard, from the street or driveway...   In the real world, the auto-drop-of-doom just doesn't make good sense.

Mabou2 Posted at 2016-7-31 08:28
I... can't... stop.. myself....  
I have been complaining about this behavior ever since my first an ...

The answer is simple, stop using RTH as a method of returning 5the aircraft. If it happens when you are under 20 metres away then why not fly it back yourself?

Mabou2 Posted at 2016-7-31 08:28
I... can't... stop.. myself....  
I have been complaining about this behavior ever since my first an ...

The other thing that doesn't make much sense is  ....
Why would you want to use RTH when the Phantom is within 20 metres ?

Geebax Posted at 2016-7-30 18:47
The answer is simple, stop using RTH as a method of returning 5the aircraft. If it happens when yo ...

Hi Geebax and labroides...

I never did initiate RTH when within 20 meters of home, and I ONLY use RTH when flying at a distance if I get confused as to where the bird is.  I have had two times where the bird self initiated RTH within 20 meters because of battery strength.  Once time (when I had the crash) was when I hit 30% battery (though the app was set to only auto-return at the default 10%).  At the very moment I got the 30% warning, another alert appeared saying the bird was initiating auto landing and it dropped straight down into a small tree.  It was later concluded by DJI that there was something wrong since there was no reason to drop out at 30%.  A subsequent software/firmware update seemed to remedy that problem.  The other time was my fault, I was in a loud environment and flying in close proximity of obstacles and people, and I was completely focussed on the bird.  I didn't notice or hear the 10% battery warning, I just saw the bird start to drop.  Luckily I had just enough time to nudge it in its descent and keep it from hitting an obstacle.

I thought it  lands if you are within 20meters from the homepoint... at 30 meters it should have raised up and headed to its home point

This thread seems to be more active than the thread I posted this on. I think I explained the issue pretty clearly there
http://forum.dji.com/forum.php?m ... &fromuid=315400

aadams1278 Posted at 2016-10-25 10:00
This thread seems to be more active than the thread I posted this on. I think I explained the issue  ...

No its not, this thread is quite old and has run its course.

As is well known here... I am firmly opposed to the drone being engineered to just drop if within 60' of home base.  Engineers are good, but end user input is VERY important to every engineer.    There are plenty of examples of user input causing engineers to rethink their code.  In most cases, it is because bugs were found and proven, but it could also be for functionality.  

IF this functionality is written in case the drone is flying indoors, there are much more elegant ways to handle this situation than having the drone land itself wherever it happens to be within a 60' radius.  I recently ran into a situation where I was flying within 60' of home base and I lost connection to the drone.  If the connection hadn't come back when it did, the drone would have dropped into trees.. The drone had already started its decent, luckily for me the connection was reestablished a few seconds from disaster.  This did NOT need to happen.  I've already crashed once (into a bush) because of the drop within 60' (this was when I was new to the drone).

"Elegant Example"....   Start the drone indoors, the ATTI dialog appears saying that there is no GPS signal.  That ATTI dialog (which has to be dismissed manually by clicking the tiny "x") could have a couple of buttons on it.  One button could be "Indoor flight".  

Geebax Posted at 2016-10-25 00:21
No its not, this thread is quite old and has run its course.

"this thread is quite old and has run its course."

Almost as old as the average Phantom user

aadams1278 Posted at 2016-10-25 00:00
This thread seems to be more active than the thread I posted this on. I think I explained the issue  ...

Landing within 65 feet is a decision DJI have made, rightly or wrongly. The important bit to me is that I know about it and plan my flight accordingly. There is nothing failsafe in the Phantom, if anything fails physically then it is toast. The likelihood of losing control signal within 65 feet of take-off point is small. The disasters have mostly happened due to people relying on, or expecting the push of the RTH button to be failsafe, whereas it is not.
I'm sure if it were set to return to and land at the home point in all circumstances then we would have more people complaining that they were at uncle Bobs wedding and the P4 bricked the ceiling light and itself after it tried to rise to 20m to return to home when it was was 'only' six feet away.

Aardvark Posted at 2016-10-25 12:36
Landing within 65 feet is a decision DJI have made, rightly or wrongly. The important bit to me is ...

Well put....

I did that once and it almost landed in a tree. The only thing that saved me was using the stick to move over just enough to miss the tree. It landed on my shop roof instead. Im sure I read about the 30 meter rule but in never registered.

I'm somewhat weirded out by two things on this thread.

"I initiated RTH with my aircraft within 60 feet of home and it crashed." Why would you stand there and watch it land with zero stick response? If it's 30 feet in the air it's not dropping out of the sky. It's landing. Slowly. For God's sake do something!

Why would you ever contemplate doing an RTH when you can fly your aircraft to you feet in about 10 seconds?

tokenbrit Posted at 2016-4-27 04:03
Interesting that the P4 is considered safe for beginners, yet the best advice from the forum is "read the manuals". There are 6 videos on unboxing the drone alone, and yes, at the bottom of page 13 of the user manual is the description of the RTH functionality and how it will land your drone automatically within 20M.

This illogical RTH  function is a quirk of DJI drones and it Is not mentioned in the top 10 mistakes - even though technically, taking off within 60 feet of a beach or a river could be devastating if you haven't " read the manuals".

I absolutely agree; it's a ridiculous feature, and is sure to confound many beginners. in fact, if you start operating in 'beginner mode' you are limited to 30 m so rth does not work at all. if you are using an android smartphone as controller you are very likely to lose the connection (there's a bug that switches the wireless to 5 ghz and then switches off irreversibly  the connection), and the spark will start descending wherever it happens to be. it happened to me and it went down into a tree and made a horrible noise. Surprisingly but luckily the drone was undamaged.

Geebax Posted at 2016-4-27 18:56
It is not a quirk, it is quite intentional, and designed to cope with people flying their aircraft indoors. If it was to rise to 30 Metres and try to return home inside a building the result would be a wrecked aircraft.

Why does everybody think they know better than the designer?

most beginners will not be operating indoors! there is no warning in the instructions.  Spark is being marketed as suitable for beginners, not for 'designers".

DJI-Paladin Posted at 2016-4-27 18:37
Hello Richard, you can play back this flight record in DJI GO. Please pay attention to the distance and the time you activate RTH. If it is in 20m range, it is normal for the drone to land when you press RTH.

it might be 'normal' but it could be catastrophic. What is the advantage of such a crazy feature? A beginner is likely to be cautious and only operating close to the home point. For example a beginner might  be operating in "beginner mode" or might be using a cell phone (with very limited range).

Donnie Posted at 2016-4-28 08:54
Token, Most of the forum members go all out answering questions.   I think the members answered the question and then reminded them to read the manual. ( Only 2 members said the Info was in the manual )   Even though something may be designed for beginners you must still do some Due Diligence  to be a safe pilot.  There are some entry level products on all type of contraptions but that does not mean that they dont have to read the directions.  

I for one have no trouble with the question, sometimes a little explanation can go a long way.  Some times it is  way to start off getting to know forum members, an ice breaker and it is OK. ( I answer ALL questions that I feel confident answering )

the point is you can easily lose the connection if you are controlling using an android phone,  and the drone will then just land (or try to land) wherever it happens to be, for example over a tree. the spark is being targeted to beginners, and there is no controller in the box.  And the majority of buyers (especially in europe) will be using an android smartphone, which often irreversibly disconnects at close range. to cap it all, in "beginner mode" you are limited to 30 m so exactly when you are most likely to need rth, you don't have it!

tokenbrit Posted at 2016-4-28 10:19
Thanks Donnie,

Moral of story: if you ever buy a new product from a different manufacturer, make sure you read the manual from cover to cover first. Who knows, your next Toyota might apply the emergency brake when you simultaneously activate the horn and right indicator - if only you checked!!!!

it's more like the Toyota will only brake when you are an experienced driver! No car is designed to have a quirk that is likely to cause a beginner to crash.

labroides@yahoo Posted at 2016-5-3 21:15
DJI's reason for the 20 metre rule is a puzzle but it's only 60 feet or closer.
And how often is anyone going to want to engage RTH when their Phantom is less than 60 feet away?
I think the only people ever effected by it are timid new flyers trying out RTH very close to themselves.

it's not unlikely at all, if you are using a android phone as controller - and if you are using the 5 ghz band, the connection loss could be irreversible. don't forget most beginners will be buying the basic unit, and using a smartphone as controller.

you were lucky you did not lose the connection!

paulhummerman Posted at 2017-6-25 03:06
you were lucky you did not lose the connection!

"the point is you can easily lose the connection if you are controlling using an android phone,  and the drone will then just land (or try to land) wherever it happens to be, for example over a tree. the spark is being targeted to beginners, and there is no controller in the box.  And the majority of buyers (especially in europe) will be using an android smartphone, which often irreversibly disconnects at close range. to cap it all, in "beginner mode" you are limited to 30 m so exactly when you are most likely to need rth, you don't have it!"

As this is in the P4 section, I'll answer it from a P4 perspective (Would also apply to others in P4 family, P3P, P3A, Mavic).

You can fly and control aircraft without phone , provided you still have a green light on the RC (Very likely at 20m) then you still have full control of the aircraft. It's unlikely that any would be using RTH at such short range. But if you did then as it started to land you can stop descent and manoeuvre aircraft to a safe landing spot. The way to eliminate any 'accidents' is to have a 'safe' 20m zone all around the home point.

paulhummerman Posted at 2017-6-25 03:06
it's not unlikely at all, if you are using a android phone as controller - and if you are using the 5 ghz band, the connection loss could be irreversible. don't forget most beginners will be buying the basic unit, and using a smartphone as controller.

Since this is the Phantom section and it is not possible to control any Phantom with oly a phone, your multiple comments here are irrelevant.
Try keeping Spark comments in the Spark section   ... and maybe don't bother trying to "correct" posts over a year old (well before the Spark and Mavic were released).

paulhummerman Posted at 2017-6-25 03:06
you were lucky you did not lose the connection!

Page 14 of the Spark manual also makes interesting reading, it says it will only auto-land directly if within 3m of home. Worth a read as the parameters are different from the other aircraft (RTH current altitude is disabled by default in DJI Go 4 if between 3-20m from home, but could be enabled by operator).

Many thanks for all the information.  When flying in heavily wooded locations filming real estate, it is critical that the Go Home feature works, allowing the copter to ascend to 250' above the tree line and return through the clearing from which it took off.  Often times one loses visual sight of the copter.  Recently the Go Home feature did not work and hearing the voice "landing" the copter began to land.  Luckily I regained sight of the copter and was able to thread it through the trees.  This could have been a disaster.

Flying it to a height of 100 feet or more, this certainly is more than 30 meters from takeoff.  I think it will be good to consult with DJI techs to make sure the information offered here is correct.

Pilot A Posted at 2018-1-15 16:11
Many thanks for all the information.  When flying in heavily wooded locations filming real estate, it is critical that the Go Home feature works, allowing the copter to ascend to 250' above the tree line and return through the clearing from which it took off.  Often times one loses visual sight of the copter.  Recently the Go Home feature did not work and hearing the voice "landing" the copter began to land.  Luckily I regained sight of the copter and was able to thread it through the trees.  This could have been a disaster.

Flying it to a height of 100 feet or more, this certainly is more than 30 meters from takeoff.  I think it will be good to consult with DJI techs to make sure the information offered here is correct.

As with most questions about what happened during a flight, the answer is probably in the recorded flight data.
To solve the mystery, go to http://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/Upload/
Follow the instructions there to upload your flight record from your phone or tablet.
Come back and post a link to the report it provides and someone may be able to decipher it for you.

My P4PP did this several times.  So, I attempted to calibrate using DJI Assistant 2.  The forward looking calibration went fine, but every attempt at calibrating the down looking sensors failed, even with live phone support from DJI.  So, they asked me to ship it to them for warranty repair.  I'm not sure if the 20 meter distance/altitude was the reason my Phantom just descended, or if it was the faulty down looking sensors (and they are faulty, hence return to factory.  I would attempt to calibrate your Phantom using DJI Assistant 2 if you have any unusual or abnormal failures.  I will update when I get my Phantom back.

Donnie Posted at 2016-4-28 08:54
Token, Most of the forum members go all out answering questions.   I think the members answered the question and then reminded them to read the manual. ( Only 2 members said the Info was in the manual )   Even though something may be designed for beginners you must still do some Due Diligence  to be a safe pilot.  There are some entry level products on all type of contraptions but that does not mean that they dont have to read the directions.  

I for one have no trouble with the question, sometimes a little explanation can go a long way.  Some times it is  way to start off getting to know forum members, an ice breaker and it is OK. ( I answer ALL questions that I feel confident answering )

I don't think so! Because when you used DJI MG-1S for agriculture. After you out of pesticides, the aircraft was going to comeback HOME to adding it again, but if your field so small and distance from aircraft to Home less than 20m => BUM! MG-1S landing on vegetation => Cries!

Pilot A Posted at 2018-1-15 16:11
Flying it to a height of 100 feet or more, this certainly is more than 30 meters from takeoff.  I think it will be good to consult with DJI techs to make sure the information offered here is correct.

I know I am six months late, but 100 feet height does not mean more than X meters from takeoff because the latter is horizontal distance and the former is vertical distance.  You can't mix them up.  This means if you fly 100 feet up and then fly 15 meters north and then invoke RTH, it will land roughly 15 meters north of the home point.  Good luck.  

rgrebby Posted at 2016-4-27 03:21
True, already have but I must have skipped that part. Thanks again for the help.

There is a lot in those manuals.  It's hard to read them and then remember every little detail.  Sometimes you can read about a feature, but don't really understand what it is saying until you experience it in the field.  At least that's the way I am.

pi-inthesky@hot Posted at 2016-4-27 03:03
You realy should read it fully first before flying

Personally I've never heard of a male individual taking the time to read the operating instructions for any item that these instructions are included for the buyer. Yes! I have picked up and began to read the instructions, but this pamphlet never usually makes it into my hands. I suppose that this started to change with the ikea products.hahaha. Best method to understand very quickly in my opinion is to build from scratch.

djiuser_ohMuDJRxNQqL Posted at 2-17 12:00
Personally I've never heard of a male individual taking the time to read the operating instructions for any item that these instructions are included for the buyer. Yes! I have picked up and began to read the instructions, but this pamphlet never usually makes it into my hands. I suppose that this started to change with the ikea products.hahaha. Best method to understand very quickly in my opinion is to build from scratch.

I have picked up and began to read the instructions, but this pamphlet never usually makes it into my hands.

Are you sure you've even seen the manual?
You can't pick up the manual or hold it in your hands (unless you print it yourself).
Go to DJI's website and download the manual for your drone.
ANyone who thinks they can handle a flying machine without reading the manual deserves what they get.