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RC firmware 1.6.0 lowered my RC output from 24mw to 14mw (Glitch.??.)
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mdazel
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UPDATE AS OF 05-11-2016: because so much data was shared via this thread / post .. we have expanded the topic to sharing all data or glitches .. the one rule or theme  .. without pointing the finger of blame .. thank you and safe flights...!!! ;-)

ok ok so here it is: I have been having issues with the range of the Phantom 3 pro since my RC firmware upgrade to 1.6.0 .. DJI has changed the output of my RC .. type A .. from 24mw output power to 14mw output power .. that`s 50% less power to push the signal and recive it .. so living in the deep woods just became a no fly zone surrounded by pines and brush .. was saving for an inspire but now I am thinking staying with or investing more on support equipment for DJIs / their product line is not a smart move .. I may have to be done with DJI .. just cannot take the constant decrease in performance of my birds anymore .. it is un-safe and non-productive just-say-in

test flight fyi link .. click-it .. check-it .. then click the watch on youtub icon button at the botom right for full details in the comments and description :
link:

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Geebax
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Where did you get the 24 and 14 mA figures from?
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kdcox
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I wondered that too,..I occasionally venture out.,like WAY out...and notice no difference.
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mdazel
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Geebax Posted at 2016-5-3 20:34
Where did you get the 24 and 14 mA figures from?

in line RF meter / reader connected between the RC board output jack and antenna each output tested independently
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Geebax
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mdazel Posted at 2016-5-4 12:22
in line rf meter / reader connected between the RC board output jack and antenna each output tested ...

Interesting, RF power is measured in milliwatts, not milliamps.
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mdazel
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Geebax Posted at 2016-5-4 10:47
Interesting, RF power is measured in milliwatts, not milliamps.

hello there, the fact you know that tells me that you may be able discuss this subject .. but your stance on how I did or did not use the wrong terminology tells me you have a different agenda so here it is in a nutshell because my RC was on the bench just prior to the firmware upgrade as it is called .. the RF meter did verify it was actually in my case a downgrade as to power output of the RCs output .. and be fore you come back with that's not what the picture shows that is not a picture of the actual reading just the device we used at the shop to measure output from the RC and different things involved with performance issues or  limits and the cause of them .. in this case I lost 50% of output power with the so called firmware upgrade...!!! ;-)  
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mdazel Posted at 2016-5-4 14:47
hello there, the fact you know that tells me that you may be able discuss this subject .. but your  ...

If you are referring to the Facebook link, I saw nothing as it took me to a page where it said I could not view anything.

To be honest, I don't know what to make of this supposed power reduction. I cannot see how it would, in any way, benefit DJI to do so, nor can I guess at any reason for it.

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DJI-Paladin
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Hello mdazel, transmitting range is mostly related to the environment and the RC and antennas position. In our test, the latest firmware and output power don't have any reduction of the range.You can post some screenshot of the image transmitting condition at that time in this thread.Besides, you can try to select the custom channel and lower bit rate next time.
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mdazel
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DJI-Paladin Posted at 2016-5-4 17:31
Hello mdazel, transmitting range is mostly related to the environment and the RC and antennas positi ...

Hello there, thank you for ringing in .. the link was to a picture of the RF meter hooked up .. so the issue was output power of the RC not how I fly .. but the video you posted is very helpful to new pilots .. in my opinion some kind of good and most helpful to RC use .. the video I posted was of the actual test flight after finding the problem and taking steps to be able to use my equipment safely and with confidence aware of its new limitations .. this is my front yard and I fly it often ( 200 +flights) and do most / all of my testing here for valid test results with the lest amount of variables in play / possible .. I here all of what you are saying and communication is the key to success .. in my case the bird lost video way before it had on many previous flights on the same flight path .. the reason for the post the RC was on the bench for a looksee and regular maintenance just before ( 6 flights before the firmware upgrade) the RC firmware upgrade .. the morning after the upgrade I could not reach max attitude of 120 meters without losing all video and the bird going in to RTH mode back on the bench after 6 attempts at flight with no joy .. so the bench testing started with the posted results .. I will try to post a picture that is not blocked by security setting for the sceptic that is looking to doubt rather than discuss the issue because it would be great if all the pilots worked together instead of playing the IASTY card and ring in with knowledge instead of judgment of the pilot .. you can identify the type by their stance on the post in general .. no attempt to help just contempt by tearing apart the post on typos or grammar .. you have tried to help first and rang in with that intent .. (THANK YOU) .. if the post is about radio signal and a pilot or someone rings in  focusing on verbiage you can discern what that person is bringing to the discussion the IASTY card witch is off topic and is the downfall of most forums if not monitored and kept in check from that type of predator .. so thank you for bringing data to the post and ringing in .. someone said why would DJI lower output power well I can ring-in on that .. back when the p1 and p2 came out we found 5mile flight the norm with stock antenna and as more and more pilots got in to the sUAS world the response was not all positive .. and the media dub the sUAS drones putting them in to the same category as a military remote aircraft or UAS .. that fly 100s of mile and even 1000s of miles away from the pilot .. so is it possible to safely fly by FPV or remotely and out of LOS .. YES .. is the public or government liking that idea .. NO .. so a great ground breaking company like DJI has to get along to play along .. stay in good standings with the FAA .. and limit the risk of lawsuits because of the many issues that are popping to play in this industry .. now I know that was of topic but someone did ask so because the question was asked I rang in with a helpful attitude as the creator of the post in an attempt to get back on topic .. the radio output of the RC via a firmware upgrade .. in my case I know it to be true and because of the way I use my equipment .. I need the control of that equipment to be mine so I can use it safely .. sometimes when you put limits on the equipment you put safety at jeopardy when you join the rank and file that pilot can no longer be trusted to make their own safe and knowledgeable decisions as captains of their aircraft .. in my opinion the pilot must be given all the data that a firmware upgrade is changing and not left in the dark because of what this product is capable of doing in the right hands instead of the wrong ones  .. as I mentioned I live in the deep woods .. my city streets are sand .. I live off grid and use my equipment for many things .. that vary from intel fun and income and the Phantom 3 pro is very capable of that mission in the right hands (a trained remote aircraft pilot) with the right antenna system .. I use a amplified coil system but the RC must output a minimum of a 1mw to allow pass-through or trigger the amp in my case the firmware took 50% of my output from the RC in such a way as to render one side at 0 .. for you tech guys it is the output not in the center of the RC but the one closest to the outside edge in the type A RC with the video compression chip inside .. something else DJI removed from the ammunition cash of their product line in this class .. the layout is the same in all the p3 and inspire RCs with the exception of the output that is not 2.4 but 5.8ghz and separate from the 2.4ghz radio .. I can only hope that the issue is addressed in the next firmware upgrade but I have not heard that they gave pilots back the option of using a third party battery back yet and that was done via the firmware upgrade as well .. just-say-in .. safe flights to all the / my fellow pilots and thank you to DJI for doing the best they can in this fast past technology in today’s business driven world where doing what you want to do with what you have is sometimes challenging and character-building at best ...!!! ;-)
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kdcox
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Greetings mdazel,  I posted the following in another thread...you seem up to snuff with this stuff so wondering if you know the answer, thanks: Well i stand corrected, went to my benchmark interference free tree free far as the eye can see site and sure enough i cannot get the range i had before.  Since i can only downgrade 1 step (i upgraded, without incident, from 1.5 something to 1.8.08 and 1.6 on rc) i want to ensure that going back 1 step to 1.5.8 on rc, and 1.7.006 on ac will work alright together.  Thanks in advance.
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david.p.mann
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DJI-Paladin Posted at 2016-5-4 17:31
Hello mdazel, transmitting range is mostly related to the environment and the RC and antennas positi ...

DJI-Paladin,

Please confirm whether or not the output power of the P3 Pro/Advanced and the P4 RC have been reduced by the recent firmware update.  If so, please document the signal output power levels BEFORE and AFTER the firmware change.  Thank you.
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dkruseski
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david.p.mann@ea Posted at 2016-5-5 04:39
DJI-Paladin,

Please confirm whether or not the output power of the P3 Pro/Advanced and the P4 RC  ...

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JockC
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DJI-Paladin Posted at 2016-5-4 19:31
the latest firmware and output power don't have any reduction of the range because we use different technology to reach the long range......

The quoted comment seems to suggest that the power was indeed reduced but that "different" methods were engaged to ensure no loss of range. Can you please advise if the power was actually reduced per the OP's comment and, if so, what specific measures were taken to compensate for that power reduction?
As far as I'm aware, battery life on the RC has never been a problem so, if new methods were included to increase signal range and quality then, surely, the best outcome would be achieved by  including those changes AND also  leaving the output power as it was.
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Aardvark
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JockC Posted at 2016-5-4 22:41
The quoted comment seems to suggest that the power was indeed reduced but that "different" methods  ...

Agreed:- Quote

"In our test, the latest firmware and output power don't have any reduction of the range because we use different technology to reach the long range and high quality signal."
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mdazel
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kdcox Posted at 2016-5-4 23:18
Greetings mdazel,  I posted the following in another thread...you seem up to snuff with this stuff s ...

hello there, I am anable to go back to an earlier firmware .. I hold on the hat in the go-app and nothing happens .. hope someone rings in with a solution to going back PLEASE keep me in the loop and adve as to your progress with your decrease in flight range .. side note if you take the time to watch the video I posted that is of the test flights I did after my eval and solution the details are in the description and comments on youtube so you will have to click the youtube icon after you start the video to get there because it is a video of testing without post work added it is not something I put out there for all to see but thought the data would or could be of help to fellow pilots .. safe flight...!!! ;-)
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mdazel
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Morph1 Posted at 2016-5-5 02:03
My P3P is rock solid on 1.4.10 beats phantom 4 in every way except for speed....
I will never upgr ...

hello there, not a bad idea I have a lot of support equipment for that bird and it would work with the new bird thanks for the input
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mdazel
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david.p.mann@ea Posted at 2016-5-5 04:39
DJI-Paladin,

Please confirm whether or not the output power of the P3 Pro/Advanced and the P4 RC  ...

hello there, in my testing I went from 24mw to 14mw a clear 50% decrease via a in-line readable RF or measurable  radio power  
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JockC
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mdazel Posted at 2016-5-5 12:52
hello there, in my testing I went from 24mw to 14mw a clear 50% decrease via a in-line readable RF ...


I can't see how using a "different" approach to transmitting data could possibly compensate for a 50% reduction in output power (assuming your measurement is correct) but we do know that several other people have complained in this and other forums about a perceived loss of range after the latest update.  It may be that DJI had to reduce the output for regulatory purposes in some countries but, whatever the reason, I would certainly like to hear back from DJI-Paladin as to exactly what was changed and by how much.

For the record, I am very happy with my P3A but I do believe that DJI needs to be more open and up front about the changes they make in firmware or apps. Release notes are intended to give users an insight into what is actually changing. To date, the invalidation of third party batteries in the last release  and, perhaps, this change (subject to DJI confirmation that it is correct) are two changes that should absolutely have been included in the release notes so that owners can make their own decisions about upgrading. Most users of this forum are reasonable people so, if there are regulatory or other  requirements which necessitated a lowering of power then I believe that most might understand. What they don't understand is why these changes might be made with no explanation or mention in the release notes. Please DJI, make the release notes inclusive of all changes that might affect owners, not just a subset of the changes.
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mdazel
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JockC Posted at 2016-5-5 11:07
I can't see how using a "different" approach to transmitting data could possibly compensate for a  ...

hello there, as I stated it is a safety issue .. if you read my first post and the info I posted in the youtube video I found this during a preflight check list that is very detailed and many new pilots do not have that type of experience and some don't even do pre fight or post flight checklist  .. pilots  need to know when they reduce range so we can fly safely and responsibly .. so I am saying bad form on how DJI did this via the upgrade to firmware version 1.6.0 with no warning pilots should take note or information mike as to the decrease in communication range between RC and aircraft in my case because of the antenna I use the bird went into RTH mode in preflight top attitude verification right in or just in front of me so I know the bird will not go above 120 meters .. so you can imagine my surprise when the bird went in to RTH mode just checking the max attitude setting .. no biggy for an experienced pilot but a newbie it could cause all kinds of problems like crashing .. just-say-in ...!!! ;-Oh_my
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mdazel
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kdcox Posted at 2016-5-4 23:18
Greetings mdazel,  I posted the following in another thread...you seem up to snuff with this stuff s ...

Hello there, ok ok so here it is: I have done this but I can not get the bird and the RC to bind after I am done going back to a older version firmware on both RC and bird .. I did try this via bin file on the microSD card virsion 1.7.0060 on the bird first then the RC as described in this youtube video version 1.5.80 ..  
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mdazel
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Morph1 Posted at 2016-5-5 22:41
If he replied to your question he would have to lie .... they will never reply to anything that ca ...

Hello there, what about the third party batteries .. I know that many pilots had them and were upset that a firmware upgrade rendered them useless but I think or should say in my opinion DJI had a good reason for that .. ok ok before you stop reading here me out as communication is key .. as a pilot and in those terms you just don't use any fuel in your aircraft and the FAA has put strict laws and regulations on the fuel used and sold in the US .. so if the battery is the fuel I would only want the company that designed and manufactured the batteries and  is supplying that firmware that runs that fuel / battery in my aircraft .. so I never used them ( TPB ) or would I .. especially if that company cannot provide a battery that is so spot on with its brother or the battery that they are cloning it automatically reads and can handle all the upgrades via the manufacturer of the aircraft's firmware .. I know many want to blame DJI for all are issues and they have a direct  input / impact to many of them .. but we would not be having any or all this fun without the innovations that DJI has put on all of our benchies .. this is the technology and DJI is the leader and wants to stay the leader .. and this is the technology that has changed all our lives and the reason we our in this forum .. old saying .. don't bite the hand that feeds you may be applicable .. and our world is driven by big business and money .. not my choice but it is what it is .. I have far less to deal with that DJI .. the company that we should be thanking for all they do .. buy communicating with them as pilots .. to all the serious safety issues they are creating by not disclosing the information we need as pilots not customers .. puting money and business first .. that is why I started this post .. so we can to try to get DJIs attention in a positive way so they listen to us as the responsible sUAS pilots we are .. using and flying their birds .. making us part of the solution and not part of the problem .. instead of turning a deaf ear to us .. so we can continue to gather data for each other .. to learn and share all the data that pilots need to continue to fly safe and with confidence in the equipment manufactured and supplied by DJI ..  we must stand together .. or the government will not continue to let un-certified remote sUAS pilots to fly our sUAS in the US very much longer .. so in my opinion DJI has reeled in our range in attempt to keep us flying with the FAA trying to restrict our flight arena .. but has already fallen it to the trap that we as sUAS pilots can not be trusted with all the data to make the decisions on our own .. and would not comply to the rules that the FAA is trying to make-up and inforce .. after all we are all sUAS test pilots .. in my opinion being treated as dummies .. like babies that can not make logical decisions .. pilots with no brains just does not make any sense to me DJI .. adversaries that YOU MUST keep all your info from does .. so witch are we DJI .. pilots with no brains .. your adversary .. your action speak louder than your words .. I say  to you  we are .. sUAS pilots .. flying thousands of dollars worth of equipment manufactured by you .. doing our best to stay safe and responsible as such .. sUAS pilots .. in a fast paced .. highly competitive .. constantly changing .. NEW technology .. public sUAS flight .. you must start to consider that fact .. if you continue to listen with a deaf ear and deny all of our words on this subject .. we will have no choice but to change our partners .. the company we buy and do business with .. to purchase our equipment from .. with the safety and confidence necessary to continue sUAS flight .. with the FAAs approval .. so let's start fresh .. working together to find solutions .. we can not find solutions pointing the finger of blame that just put resolve out of reach for us all .. just-say-in...!!! ;-)
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DJI-Tim
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This rumor stemmed from a test done by a Facebook user. The user did an RC power output test and found that after updating the RC firmware to 1.6, RC wattage decreased from 24mw to 11.79mw. In fact, the wattage was not decreased; the user performed the test using an incorrect frequency and this influenced his results. .  DJI RC power output for FCC is 79 mw, for CE is 25 mw DJI has no incentive to decrease RC power.
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Rick King
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P3S all up to date with dbs mode , range still the same 15000+ ft. out..
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dji-p3p1
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Morph1 Posted at 2016-5-5 02:03
My P3P is rock solid on 1.4.10 beats phantom 4 in every way except for speed....
I will never upgr ...

Morph. With you on this.

My P3P is on 1.5 and the downgrade from 1.4 to 1.5 is exactly when I got the cam vibe bug.
I managed to sort it with some tweaking and right now the bird is flying like a dream on 1.5 and Go 2.4.3

I am NOT planning to DOWNGRADE to a higher/latest version of FW or Go. ( thank you very much please) unless DJI change their current "cowboy" code release practices.
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FAS1
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dji-p3p1 Posted at 2016-5-6 07:14
Morph. With you on this.

My P3P is on 1.5 and the downgrade from 1.4 to 1.5 is exactly when I got ...

When it comes to 'GO', you have no choice. When DJI updates it, you cannot choose to install or not.
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dji-p3p1
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FAS1 Posted at 2016-5-6 19:24
When it comes to 'GO', you have no choice. When DJI updates it, you cannot choose to install or no ...

Disagree!  You DO have a choice. I'm on the iOS (iPad4 mini) and I have disabled Apps & Updates in Automatic Downloads in Settings. My Go stays at the old version.

image.jpeg
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labroides
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FAS1 Posted at 2016-5-6 21:24
When it comes to 'GO', you have no choice. When DJI updates it, you cannot choose to install or no ...

When the app notifies you with the  Update Required message, you can ignore that if you choose.
It's really just saying that an update is available and whether to update is entirely up to you unless you have your device set to perform auto updates.
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dji-p3p1
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labroides@yahoo Posted at 2016-5-6 19:34
When the app notifies you with the  Update Required message, you can ignore that if you choose.
It ...

Agreed bud.
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FAS1
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dji-p3p1 Posted at 2016-5-6 07:31
Disagree!  You DO have a choice. I'm on the iOS (iPad4 mini) and I have disabled Apps & Updates in  ...

Hmmm...interesting. OK, I stand corrected. Thanks for learnin' me sumthin' new.
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dji-p3p1
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FAS1 Posted at 2016-5-6 21:43
Hmmm...interesting. OK, I stand corrected. Thanks for learnin' me sumthin' new.

You are Welcome FAS1.

Happy Fly'in
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mdazel
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dji-p3p1 Posted at 2016-5-6 19:31
Disagree!  You DO have a choice. I'm on the iOS (iPad4 mini) and I have disabled Apps & Updates in  ...

Hello there, Thank you .. good data to share with your fellow pilots and DJI ..  communication on all data is key now if we can get DJI to do the same .. just-say-in...!!! ;-)
side note: Question do you or any pilot reading this know for the pilots that use iPad air 2 .. where this menu is and the settings mentioned in this post are located ...!!! ;-)
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imagesbyjas
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Just spoke with DJI Tech Support and they are not aware of anything along these lines.  I did suggest that this needed a more direct answer..  Either it is true or not, and if not I think they need to understand how mdazel arrived at his conclusions.  I'm also concerned that after backing the aircraft and RC to prior release that a relink was not possible.  :-(   I finally got to the place where I was comfortable with installing 1.8 All in One and 1.6 on the Aircraft but have not had a chance to fly (full week of rain here in New England)...
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bfd300
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How did yu Back your aircraft to a previous version?.. I formatted my disk pasted the BIN file , installed it into my AC powered on the AC and NOTHING.  GRRRR.
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bfd300 Posted at 2016-5-7 00:40
How did yu Back your aircraft to a previous version?.. I formatted my disk pasted the BIN file , ins ...

Assume you put the 1.7 bin file on it?  I know, but just checking...
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bfd300
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Yes I did and that's the only file on the card.
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kdcox
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Yes just put 1.7 on a formatted SD card and do the update sequence.  Only works for p3p not p3a
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bfd300
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AHHH  I have the P3A.........oh well  thanks for your help.
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david.p.mann
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DJI-Tim Posted at 2016-5-6 10:51
This rumor stemmed from a test done by a Facebook user. The user did an RC power output test and fo ...

DJI-Tim,

THANK YOU for responding and confirming the RC power output was NOT reduced by the 1.6.0 RC firmware release and that the RC power output for FCC countries is 79 mw and for CE countries is 25 mw.

Hopefully, this puts this RC power output reduction rumor to bed.

By the way, what exact RC frequency (or frequencies) should be monitored by folks that want to measure RC power output with calibrated electronic equipment?
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