Chicago DP Posted at 2016-5-27 18:09
What does everyone expect for $650? I used to buy betacams for $60K. THAT'S when you expect 100% per ...

I fully expect the issue to be fixed. Is that too much to expect, because tech's cheaper?
Chuba is also my real name.

Chicago DP Posted at 2016-5-27 13:09
What does everyone expect for $650? I used to buy betacams for $60K. THAT'S when you expect 100% per ...

Ned, that is really cool you've bought and operated a $60,000 1980s giant shoulder cam with an additional $10K in glass. I'm sure a lot of the professionals on here can attest to using/owning/buying expensive equipment. The very simple fact of the matter is, regardless of the price, equipment should work as advertised. Do I expect an Osmo to be as stable as a Movi? No. But do I expect the Osmo to work as advertised? Yes.

Also Ned, I'm not sure if you've noticed or not, but as time passes technology advances at an exponential rate.

Things are getting smaller, faster, more advanced, as well as more cost effective. So yes, for $650 I would expect the Osmo preform the functions it claims. Or at the very least to remove said functions as part of their marketing, until they can deliver what they promise.

Dave A Posted at 2016-5-27 07:31
I'm glad some fellow customers/real professionals see my point in this. I've owned $1,000s of dollar ...

Dave, Dave, Dave. Now I'm hiding behind a keyboard? What? You need my social security number? All I know is every time  I bring up the issue of booking a shoot with untested equipment, you change the subject back to personal attacks. It's actually gotten quite boring.

Oh... My name is Greg Lucas but I've been using flighttime for over a dozen years now online. I'm actually a bit upset I had to settle for flighttime1 here. Going to do everyone a favor and drop this thread from my reading list. Enjoy.

Dave A Posted at 2016-5-28 01:31
Ned, that is really cool you've bought and operated a $60,000 1980s giant shoulder cam with an addi ...

How about perform at all? I cant get any sort of horizontal stabilization out of 3 different OSMOS. This is utilizing the x5 camera and DJI adapter.

I bought and returned 2 Osmos until I received my third one which is working properly now, although internal mic is not working at all, and I have to use external one. But I am satisfied with its performance. Regarding professional use, Osmo is definetely not intended to be used for professional use but is OK for sports and action scenes. If you own a production and consider yourself as cinemtographer, you are supposed to check the equipmentt before you use it. IMHO. But I do agree with you that DJI support is terrible

ISA AYDIN Posted at 2016-5-28 05:08
I bought and returned 2 Osmos until I received my third one which is working properly now, although  ...

What was wrong with your first 2 OSMOs? I have been having a real bad run of luck with them.

Burlbark Posted at 2016-5-28 07:57
What was wrong with your first 2 OSMOs? I have been having a real bad run of luck with them.

Dear Anonymous,

I avoided the X5 because it seems that the whole Osmo line was rushed to market before all the gremlins were out. This is common now, even Apple releases products that need tweaks, there is hyper competition. Maybe you have bad luck getting lemons? My X3 isn't that bad, a slight h drift. I've seen great examples of X3 work all over YT and Vimeo so I figure some of my problem is user error. If I had a good paying REAL gig coming up I'd practice the hell out of it.

I think DJI is first and foremost a drone company and they hit pay dirt with the Osmo. They must have known other companies such as GoPro were developing their own hand unit gimbal products, as is apparent now. My theory is that the reason DJI is slow to deliver and constantly making FW tweaks is that they now have a tiger by the tail, something SO POPULAR they can't keep up with demand, right? And the Chinese are new to customer service, at least our level.

In sum, to me, this $650 thing to me is a toy that in the hands of a pro, if you didn't get a lemon, is very useful for a quickie smooth shot. If I had a client base that would really appreciate (and pay) for that look, then I'd be forced into a Ronin, not an Osmo. As I said, you get what you paid for and at this price point it's not gonna be the top of the line, right?

Ned
www.nedmiller.com

P.S. I bought from B&H and paid $99 for the 2 year warranty just in case the Osmo didn't work out, so I don't need to sweat a lemon.

Chicago DP Posted at 2016-5-28 12:42
Dear Anonymous,

I avoided the X5 because it seems that the whole Osmo line was rushed to market be ...

Chicago, that is the whole point in your last couple of sentences: We DIDN't get what we paid for. The Osmo does not perform as advertised.
Rod and the cat

rodAndTheCat Posted at 2016-5-28 08:48
Chicago, that is the whole point in your last couple of sentences: We DIDN't get what we paid for. ...

Ehhhh....forget it. But Dave, you're forunate to live in Hawaii!
Have a great weekend!

Ned
www.nedmiller.com

Chicago DP Posted at 2016-5-27 20:09
What does everyone expect for $650? I used to buy betacams for $60K. THAT'S when you expect 100% per ...

Just about sums it up!

In England we have an expression, "a bad workman always blames his tools".

Hello, everybody
No offense here.
Different people may have different requirement or expectation, almost all of us just see what we see in our own eyes. I hope nobody would be blamed but be respected, I'm sorry for any frustration or bad impression caused. Your discussion has arose our attentions and we appreciate with any of your comments or feedback.
We take it as our responsibility and pleasure to bring new and improvement to our products for our people always. Hopefully, we'll witness the next innovation in the future together.

Thanks a lot for your support.

davidazor Posted at 2016-5-26 20:02
the 'static' shots I am wanting to get are with the Osmo either shooting time-lapse or being mounte ...

Please do not patronize me with amateur production tips.

Like what exactly?

Davidaw Posted at 2016-5-30 04:55
Just about sums it up!

In England we have an expression, "a bad workman always blames his tools". ...

So if I bought a hammer and the head fell off whilst I used it, then that means I'm a bad workman?

Because that is basically what some of us are experiencing after having bought the osmo. And save any trite banter about having back ups for the job, that has already been covered and stated here.

What other saying does england have, mate? I'm not sure that one is correctly being applied here.

Cheers

So today I brought the Osmo on a paying gig, the second one but this time I really needed it to pimp up the b-roll because having a traditional shoulder mount would not do. There would be no space for it, draw too much attention and I really needed the stabiilzation feature without the size of a Ronin and such. I did the regular shooting, I suction cupped Go Pros and then grabbed my Osmo. It was the grand opening of a fast casual restaurant that is going national so the client needed me to do a lot of moving shots, that's why this is probably the first real application I had, the first was a freebie. It was very documentary so I set it on auto and I avoided windows.

Yes, there's a lot of drift, I went into the menu to minimize it but within a few minutes I started to compensate for it, by slowing down sooner so it would drift to the point that I felt would be a good end to the shot. NO BIG DEAL! One interesting issue is the stares I received. No one knows what an Osmo is. Got many questions: What is that thing?

I had two clients who were intrigued and I gave them a 60 second lesson and let them shoot while I changed batteries in the go Pros, etc. I was afraid to lay it down in a packed restaurant. An issue I hadn't planned on is when I went to take a whiz and I didn't want to lay it down on the bathroom counter and had to hold it while at the urinal. That took some talent but I now have the technique down.

Another issue is I received an important call from a client and while rolling I held the Osmo to my ear to answer the call. So perhaps in the future I will wear a Bluetooth earpiece. In sum, I had a great time because I was able to get great shots that in no way could have been done normally! I raised it way over my head, tilted the phone down, and did 180 degree moves that would normally have been done with a jib. I stuck the Osmo into areas and did slow slider moves. So for a documentary experience this thing is perfect even with the drift! It was actually FUN to shoot with because I was getting angles and moves that would have been impossible. Now, if I was doing dramatic, where actors hit their marks and the Osmo has to land somewhere highly specific, then I may not be happy with the Osmo's drift. But for documentary and corporate shooting, so far it's perfect! You just have to compensate for the drift by slowing down sooner. If yours is like mine then there is no real issue!

Chicago DP Posted at 2016-5-31 18:04
So today I brought the Osmo on a paying gig, the second one but this time I really needed it to pimp ...

Sounds great Chicago DP. I'll be doing the first real test, outside of a helicopter, tomorrow on a real estate shoot. I haven't seen the drift that everyone is talking about so far but I'll be keeping your solution in mind if it does rear it's ugly head.

Chicago DP Posted at 2016-5-31 21:04
So today I brought the Osmo on a paying gig, the second one but this time I really needed it to pimp ...

I'm glad to hear you were able to make due with yours. I have noticed when I'm actually tracking a subject I can minimize the drift (subject and I in motion) or work the drift into the shot intuitively. It can provide stellar results. That is why I'm laughing at some of the people on here saying it can't be used for professional instances. BS. I've used GoPros on big name clients before. It's all about application, perspective, and of course if the device actually works.

One of the main reasons I got an Osmo was to try incorporate a hyperlapse segment into something I was filming, but unfortunately in this instance the drift is not only unavoidable but also unacceptable. I'll be unsatisfied if my next Osmo drifts. I need it to actually work like a gimbal and stabilize, not auto pan. I'm not sure how you can describe something as being perfect when you have to compensate for its malfunctions. The fact is there is an issue. I shouldn't have to work a move in my shot to specifically compensate for the camera's/gimbal's inadequacy.  Or at the very least DJI shouldn't advertise the Osmo to do things that it can't preform...I bought my Osmo for a specific reason and it simply can't preform.

flighttime1 Posted at 2016-6-1 09:19
Sounds great Chicago DP. I'll be doing the first real test, outside of a helicopter, tomorrow on a ...

Hey Flighttime,

In terms of real estate...I saw and studied a lot of home tours when researching the Osmo, I guess many bought it to do real estate videos? Me personally, I've done them in previous lives but found the realtors too cheap but if you're going to do it:

• The Osmo is slow to compensate for exposure, like a Go Pro. So when you pan across a bright window into a darker space (or vice versa) beware that it can take two seconds or so to find it's exposure. Unless you want to go manual and just let the windows blow? May want to do two versions.

• Same with color temperature.

• Go slower than you think in terms of pans. We have owned 4 houses and are constantly viewing virtual tours because we plan to move again. 90% of the shooters go too fast for us to see the features. When I tested the Osmo around my house and then played it back, I then realized I was moving too fast or I was so fixated on my level and steadiness that maybe I wasn't paying attention to the speed of the pan?

So yes, there is a downside but I figured it out I think. For instance, when people I was filming today rose from a seated position, or vice versa, I knew I had to compensate for the drift or I'd get badly composed headroom. Also looking room. But if you are an experienced land shooter, this will be OK in a few minutes or a couple of blown takes, whichever occurs first.

I am just so happy with this thing! Only gripe is I have no idea when the Z-axis arm is coming but I must say, when I reviewed the footage on my laptop with my editor, who had no idea what an Osmo is, I watched my forward walk footage and I was super smooth doing a heel-to-toe Ninja Walk with Rockports, no up and down motion. So, I may cancel the order if it doesn't come soon. I also have switched to Flashlight Mode when walking forward after watching several YT gurus extoll the virtue of that mode losing up and down motion.

Later,

Ned
www.nedmiller.com

Dave A Posted at 2016-6-1 09:27
I'm glad to hear you were able to make due with yours. I have noticed when I'm actually tracking a ...

Dave,

Not sure what you mean buy hyper lapse unless you mean just speeding up the footage in post?

But today, here's what worked for me- Let's say I did a left to right pan and when I was coming to my end of shot it would keep drifting right. I knew it would do that based on experience. What I am now doing, I guess you'd call it a wrist roll? So if the pan was left to right and the damn thing wants to keep on going, I'd turn my wrist LEFT, into the roll, at the same speed of the drift.

Does that make sense? Not sure if I explained it correctly but I am using my wrist to bring it to a smooth stop where I want the shot to be composed. I can also do my arm or twist my whole torso into the drift.

I am afraid if DJI sends us firmware update that kills ALL drift, the thing will come to too abrupt a stop, right? Now I am getting these buttery smooth stops. Slow enough that the editor can cut away from. So please try this: Do a pan where you know it will drift past where you want the shot to end and right before that point, twist your wrist, at the speed of the drift, into the opposite direction of the drift and quit that when you see it has come to the composition you want. This technique doesn't work when you're moving fast. In fact, I have found the Osmo doesn't look so good in fast pans. I have been shooting in 1080/30.
This doesn't work for tilts. For instance, if a couple sat down at the table the vertical drift would ruin my head room so...instead of doing a tilt, where I have no idea when the Osmo will stop, instead I did booms up and down, watching the top frame horizon and headroom. This worked well.

Chicago DP Posted at 2016-5-31 23:03
Dave,

Not sure what you mean buy hyper lapse unless you mean just speeding up the footage in post? ...

Ned,

You should look up hyper-lapses. If you're a working professional you'll appreciate them and when they're done right they can give any piece or standalone project a nice flare. And if the Osmo could just have 1 mode where it didn't drift and actually locked, it would be a great tool to accomplish them. (Ironically the Osmo claims to be able to do hyper-lapses)

I do understand what you're saying, and I appreciate you providing some workaround for the drift while in the field. While hiking in Hawaii I also used my body to help 'feather' the unwanted drift in the Osmo.

The main shot I was hoping to pull off with my Osmo was it mounted to a vehicle while showing the vehicle moving throughout the day. The gimbal definitely provides me with a fairly stable shot but then will start to drift and change frame, which is not the look I want.

Chicago DP Posted at 2016-5-31 19:52
Hey Flighttime,

In terms of real estate...I saw and studied a lot of home tours when researching  ...

Chicago. Thanks for the tips. Yes, we are quite concerned with pricing. We don't do private homes though. Our main work is aerial photography for commercial and industrial real estate. Any ground video would be for a large apartment complex or shopping mall. They have the budget, we just need to convince them it's a good up-sell to what we are already doing.

Dave A Posted at 2016-6-1 11:14
Ned,

You should look up hyper-lapses. If you're a working professional you'll appreciate them an ...

Yes, it's what I thought: A time lapse while moving, correct? Didn't know it had its own name.

Meanwhile, I just got a mid month 2 day shoot at car dealerships, so I have been practicing mitigating the drift. I start at the back of the vehicle, move around in a J pattern, then am perpendicular to the car but must frame bumper-to-bumper, so there can be no drift.

Also, now am working on making a holster for it out of an old carpenter's hammer holder for the belt. I want to be able to leave the phone on and then I will be able to grab the Osmo and be rolling in just a few seconds.
Oh! Found this. Interesting but makes me seasick:

https://fstoppers.com/gear/using ... isting-users-120896

flighttime1 Posted at 2016-6-1 11:29
Chicago. Thanks for the tips. Yes, we are quite concerned with pricing. We don't do private homes  ...

There was a time I did QTVR (QuickTime Virtual Reality) where a special tripod head let me take 18 stills in a 360 degree arc and then were stitched together in their software. I went after commercial developers figuring they had deep pockets but even when millions of dollars were at stake I was dealing with the brokers, not the billionaire developers. Their mantra was $20 a shot!

I used to do a lot of helicopter work, not anymore. Don't miss it! If it's not as smooth as a Wescam they may complain. The OJ Simspon Bronco car chase was the nail in my aerial career. After that, all the clients wanted the smoothness of Wescam and I was the Chicago area Tyler Middle Mount specialist.

Chicago DP Posted at 2016-6-1 18:27
There was a time I did QTVR (QuickTime Virtual Reality) where a special tripod head let me take 18 ...

Chicago DP... I'd pay to fly around in helicopters with the door off so having someone pay me is not a bad deal from my perspective. Sounds like you're just evolving, same as me. The drones are an extension of my photography and flying RC planes. Again, getting paid to have fun. The video is new so that's where I'm spending time learning and practicing. Almost like I'm back in my 20's again. lol. yeah right.

flighttime1 Posted at 2016-6-2 10:39
Chicago DP... I'd pay to fly around in helicopters with the door off so having someone pay me is n ...

Oh! I thought when you said "aerials" you meant small planes or real helicopters! There was another poster who was using the Osmo in a small plane and an east coast guy who owns his own chopper, so I figured you were part of them. I should have figured on a DJI forum you were doing drones, sorry.

Yes, I spent a good decade as the Go To shooter for Tyler in the Chicago area, got certified. It was always good for two day's of pay because you had to go to the airport the day before and balance it out. Fun to be with the door off, sitting on the floor halfway out. But now I have ringing in the ears from it (also rock n roll and artillery), and it was a rush. You can't be scared because you're concentrating so intensely, although I had a few close calls.

When I was at my peak in terms of aerials all the pilots were veterans from the Vietnam war, so they knew what they were doing. Now? It's kiddies who took civilian aviation class and when it comes to helicopters, you don't want to be going down with one of them, you want an old pro. Pilots are usually freelance now, you can tell when you get in how they are searching for dials on the dashboard that they aren't in that model every day.

And Dave who has been in this thread...the worst thing is a tourist helicopter such as Grand Canyon and Hawaii. Just Google those two places and the words: helicopter crash. The amount of hours they use, and they do maximize their air hours, puts a tremendous strain on everything and even though the FAA has regulations in terms of hours between maintenance, they tend to be cost cutters and will find ways around it. There's also pilot complacency because they are like rental horses on the trail. I once shot the volcano spewing there, Kīlauea, then when we wanted to land we couldn't because we were in a valley with cloud cover above and in the fog, so we hovered and hovered waiting for the fog to dissipate or the clouds to lift. I asked what happens when the fuel gets too low and he said we'll "set it down", but in Hawaii you have two choices: Water &Trees. If God loves you there'll be a golf course. The beauty of the Midwest is that it is flat, flat, flat.

I was very interested in getting into drones, had been crashing RC planes for years, but once it took off (no pun intended) way too many people got into it, thus brining prices down for everyone. Now, these cheap ass clients expect you to bring a drone, as if you can take that time out of the very busy shoot day. Many prospects ask if my price includes the drone! Yeah, right...So now when I do a bid I add about $300 for a buddy to come out for an hour. Half the time they want their building shot not realizing how unappealing their air conditioning units are. It seems to me for all the money these guys put into their drones, and the many hours it took to get GOOD at it, what they make from bringing it out on a gig is peanuts, so I feel it's best to subcontract it out. Also, they can come and do the drone shots on a better weather day than my shoot day. From what I've seen there's  no big money in it.

So in sum, what the clients will pay for a drone to me isn't worth the investment, although if you do have one it puts you at a competitive advantage. In the Chicago area many DPs will have one, maybe add $150. And that's what I like about the Osmo: It's SO CHEAP I will be throwing it in as a competitive value added advantage. But I figured with drones, if I didn't specialize in it I won't make excellent drone shots. Very geeky to me. I'm two years away from retiring and I am a little money making machine now, trying to max revenue and savings, and to me a drone is a drain in time and money. But it does look like a lot of fun!

Chicago DP Posted at 2016-6-2 07:31
Oh! I thought when you said "aerials" you meant small planes or real helicopters! There was another ...

Chicago DP... Most of the work is DSLR aerials but we also do exterior and interior ground shots. Basically, whatever the client needs to help them sell multi-million dollar properties. That's why the drones and Osmo. Both will be up-sells for us with still and video. And yes, I was the one that posted a clip using the Osmo from a helicopter a week or two ago. I was doing an apartment complex yesterday and prior to breaking down on the interiors, did some testing with the Osmo. I was not impressed with my skills but, it was rushed and the first attempt. Practice, as I mentioned, is what's required.

flighttime1 Posted at 2016-6-3 09:51
Chicago DP... Most of the work is DSLR aerials but we also do exterior and interior ground shots.  ...

Oh I see. I've given up on real estate, I do get requests but they're too cheap, and I am in the affluent suburbs of Chicago! Here's what my mentor taught me when I first started out. It is the most important lesson to learn to make it in this biz and I practice it daily. He said:

"All clients can be broken up into two categories: Those spending their own money and those spending the company's money. You ALWAYS want to be dealing with the latter."

When I did go after the real estate market, before it was flooded with video guys, I found I was dealing with brokers, so not only were they spending their OWN money, they didn't even have the funds yet because they would need to reimburse themselves out of their commission check which would come many weeks, or months, later. So even though they appeared affluent on the exterior with their BMWs they were expert negotiators and cheap, cheap, cheap. I then figured I'd move onto the commercial market and go after the really big builders, forget residential. I made some progress, found clients and did really big developments (before drones when you needed a REAL helicopter) but once you land a commercial client they won't need another video for a very long time, because their projects take years! By the time they need a new video for their new development the players have changed. I did surmise that often the videos were for the EGO of the founder or CEO!

Here is the new trend for real estate video and if I was younger and wanted to invest into the gear this is what I would go into: 360 VR tours-

http://glendalediggs.com/sps/1214idlewoodrd/

All this has been discussed in depth over the last few years on one of my favorite forums that I am a regular on, and I suggest you do a keyword search for Real Estate: Creative Cow's Business & Marketing forum. So I will be leaving this forum soon, once I figure out the post issues since I do believe I have the physical Osmo aspects down, such as the original title of this thread. On CC no one can be anonymous. No trolls or snarky dweebs, wannabes, Aholes. You see, when posters don't use their real identity they will be dicks plus you don't know if you're communicating with a rookie. CC is a community of pros. DVXuser half and half.

Some guys swear by RE but I figure they married well. In the Chicago area the major RE brokerages have an in-house video and stills guy and for stills they have specialty non-distort wide angle lenses and software to unsqueezed the image, so it would be hard for me to compete. The still guys usually also do the video, even if they are half ass. Maybe the Osmo will help them?

But I digress...even if you get good at collecting RE clients it's to me basically chump change. Like weddings. Here's what I do on my slow days when I need to do some hustling and marketing I go after only FOUR MAJOR INDUSTRIES, I am an expert at LinkedIn's Advanced Search function, I target only locally HQ'd: Healthcare (includes hospitals, medical devices, pharma, medical associations), Software, Financial Services, Robotics Manufacturers.  Only those four. I then specifically go after the marketing execs. Every now and then HR because they need training videos, but ONLY those four industries, through my research of Chicago's business scene, they throw money into marketing. Most of the time they have a critical deadline so they go into Panic Mode to find a video vendor. And Presto! There I am! I may hit the trifecta if I get a company that does financial software for hospitals!

When I get a request for an estimate from a marketing exec in one of the above four industries it's amazing how much money they have because they are in the "latter" category of the above maxim. They equate spending more with getting more. You can't compare that with dealing with a RE broker even if it's concerning a McMansion. Remember, any halfway technical and slightly creative geek can now make a decent video but very, very few will be able to make a long term sustainable revenue business out of video and survive in the long term. By me concentrating on those above four industries and targeting the marketing execs I am a thriving survivor. In sum, forget RE.  Chump change. And you used the pronoun We which suggests you have partner(s). Means you have to split the profit!

So sorry to digress and hijack this thread. I hope to see you on CC and learn the real you! Also, how do you change the avatar on this forum?

Best,

Ned
www.nedmiller.com

P.S. 99.9% of all video guys don't know this but...one of the main reasons I have such great SEO? My consultant told me years ago that by using my URL in the posts and people clicking on it from various video expert forums like CC, DVXuser.com, etc., Google thinks I'm some sort of video guru. That's another reason to not be anonymous.

Chicago DP... Not to worry about this thread. It went south long ago. lol. You are correct about Google and SEO. As soon as I finish up the 'coming soon' on the drone biz, I'll be doing the same. As far as the real estate market, I don't think I would ever consider going after residential. This is a 30 year old business that I've worked with, off and on, in multiple capacities. To give you some idea, I originally got involved when Morgan Stanley was their main client. I'm a die hard freelancer these days, I spent 7 years as a programmer for a popular kids web site and haven't had a paycheck since. Right now my focus is on heading up the new drone division (one man division for now) and seeing how far I can take it. Since there is an existing client base, I'll be looking at expanding into new areas. As I said, still photography is the current stock and trade. I'm bucking the old dogs can't learn new tricks by adding video to the took kit. This is how you stay young in my mind. Retire? Never.

flighttime1 Posted at 2016-6-3 14:12
Chicago DP... Not to worry about this thread. It went south long ago. lol. You are correct about Goo ...

lol!!!!!!!

lol just look and solve the issue

visit contact consultant with related experience