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X5 is noisy and not really sharp
2391 17 2016-5-30
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MichaelRoth
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Just testing out my new Inspire PRO.

Look at this DNG Sample, what's wrong here? Is this really the best Quality that X5 delivers?

Inspire X5, Zuiko 12mm @ f4.0, 1/400s, ISO100

This is manual Focus set at "almost endless" i also tried autofocus but its not better. I calibrated camera many times.

http://www.michaelroth.ch/DJI_0002.zip

2016-5-30
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MichaelRoth
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Another example with autofocus + f5.6, ISO100, 1/160s:
http://www.michaelroth.ch/DJI_0055.zip

please tell me that is not normal X5 performance? Its noisy like hell ...
2016-5-30
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flighttime1
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Looking at 0002. I don't know what you are calling noise but what I see is just an out of focus picture. No visible noise. I also don't know what 'almost endless' translates into on the actual lens but this is certainly not manual focus set at infinity which is what it should be if you wish to us manual focus for aerial pictures. The learning curve is not really as steep as it is tricky with the I1P. Spend some time with the manual. To be honest, I don't remember why but I no longer ever use ISO 100. Even for sunset shots, I'm always at ISO 200. That seems to be the norm for most folks.

Too respond directly, nope. That's not what you should be getting from your new I1P. Relax and enjoy it. Great machine.
2016-5-30
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flighttime1
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Another tidbit I can offer. There are actually 2 different manual focus options. On the Zuido 12mm, the first being when you pull back the ring on the lens that otherwise would hid the focus adjustment. That puts you into true manual focus and you will not have any options in the Go app. The second is to push that ring up, so it does cover the focus adjustments and then set the Go app to manual focus which will give you a slider on the right hand side with which to set focus. I don't think anyone in their right mind would use that second option as it's very clumsy, at best. If you are going to be using the so called 'auto' focus, you absolutely need to calibrate each lens that you use. It's a bit obnoxious that you have to be up in the air to do it but that's how it works. Again, read the manual.
2016-5-30
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MichaelRoth
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Hi and thanks for your response. Im not so good with english. With almost endless i mean focus is set at infinity. i used the second option and calibrated the camera in the air and in the go app.

with noise i mean this, or how you call them:

brzeg.jpg
2016-5-30
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MichaelRoth
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So noisy image like above i get from my Nikon D810 at ISO 3200 and from Nikon D4S at ISO at about 6400.

i know well how to use cameras but this X5 is delivering me really bad images.
2016-5-30
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MichaelRoth
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is there also a way to disable noise reduction in camera? becose i think the problem might be this, i would like to remove the sensor noise byself?
2016-5-30
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flighttime1
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Just so you can get past this point and see what the camera should do, go ahead and give true manual focus a try. Set the lens at infinity but don't push the ring up. Once you push the ring up, it doesn't matter what you have it set at, the lens thinks it's in auto focus mode and it's just a matter of using the slider or tapping the screen. That last image is still basically jut out of focus.
2016-5-30
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MrSilicon
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I've read on this forum that iso200 is less noisy than iso100. Try 200 and see if it's any better.
2016-6-3
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EyecatcherFFM
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MichaelRoth Posted at 2016-5-30 23:12
Another example with autofocus + f5.6, ISO100, 1/160s:
http://www.michaelroth.ch/DJI_0055.zip

Out of Focus and underexposed as i look at your DNG Histogram in Photoshop.
In your RAW Settings you pushed the F-Stop 1.45 up, to compensate the underexposure.
That adds a lot additional Noise.


histo.jpg
2016-6-3
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nilsblix
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MichaelRoth Posted at 2016-5-31 00:06
Hi and thanks for your response. Im not so good with english. With almost endless i mean focus is se ...

If you are skilled - use DNG files.

I suppose for you - try to shoot jpg images first.
Shoot auto everything ( except from the focus )
The focus - set the focus on manual and infinity on the lens itself.

I do not say you should do this in the future but just to check your lens/camera.
Your images are way out of focus.

To learn your lens/camera - you do not need to be in the air - put the Inspire on a table or something and shoot away.
2016-6-3
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Aeromirage
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MrSilicon Posted at 2016-6-3 17:20
I've read on this forum that iso200 is less noisy than iso100. Try 200 and see if it's any better.

ISO 200 is where I keep mine set 90% of the time. Much less noise.
2016-6-4
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MrSilicon
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Aeromirage Posted at 2016-6-5 13:16
ISO 200 is where I keep mine set 90% of the time. Much less noise.

You've got to admit tho it's very counter-intuitive!

Did we ever find out a reason why iso200 has less noise than iso100?
2016-6-4
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Aeromirage
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Nobody seems to have a fact based reason that I have heard.
      I read on one of the posts here that it is the default for the camera / sensor. This seems to be true, as I also have a GH4 and it works best at ISO200. I believe the GH$ has the same, or at least a very similar sensor.
This is so different from film..... lower ISO always meant cleaner (less grainy) photos.
2016-6-4
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jimhare
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MrSilicon Posted at 2016-6-5 15:23
You've got to admit tho it's very counter-intuitive!

Did we ever find out a reason why iso200 has ...

Many cameras have a native sensor ISO.  This is often between 320 - 800.   Dropping below the native ISO does remove light, but it also reduces dynamic range, which is essentially the number of stops above and below the middle point.   In a nutshell it flattens out the image and can make it grainy.

But, as Eyecatcher pointed out, this is a simple case of underexposing and pulling the image up to compensate, revealing the underlying noise that would otherwise be in the floor.   Doesn't matter how good your camera is, you underexpose you get a noisy and ugly image.  

Using the histogram during shooting and exposing to the right (making the image as bright as possible without blowing out the highlights) is a must.

Focus is also going to ruin a great shot.  Don't rely on autofocus or infinity unless you have 100% confidence in the calibration and testing.
2016-6-6
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MrSilicon
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jimhare Posted at 2016-6-7 07:20
Many cameras have a native sensor ISO.  This is often between 320 - 800.   Dropping below the nativ ...

Wow, that's the first I've ever heard of native iso. Thanks for sharing!

So what is the native iso of the X5? I had a quick scan of other forums and some are saying 200, others 400.

If the native iso is 400, for example, would that mean you'd get the most dynamic range and least noise on 400, or would bumping it down to 200 give you less noise but also less dynamic range?

I've started using the histogram religiously with the X5
2016-6-6
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jimhare
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MrSilicon Posted at 2016-6-7 12:37
Wow, that's the first I've ever heard of native iso. Thanks for sharing!

So what is the native is ...

In a perfect world you would always shoot native ISO.   Of course this seldom happens as lighting conditions can vary incredibly from one moment to the next.

By shooting native you are guaranteeing you have sufficient detail in both shadows and hilights, known as dynamic range.  Noise really shouldn't be an issue if you are exposing correctly so let's leave that out of it.

When you raise or lower the ISO too much you are crippling the dynamic range.

Most native ISOs are between 200 - 400 so 320 is a good middle ground.   Naturally this will make everything brighter so you need to compensate with NDs and, as a last resort, shutter speed.

Of course too fast a shutter and you exaggerate rolling shutter as well as get a hyper real sports video effect so in a perfect world keep the shutter at twice the frame rate and try to do everything with NDs.   This often won't be enough so you put the ISO back to 100 and you're back where you started.   This is fine and in the end we all have to make compromises to get the shot.

So much of this discussion becomes academic and you let reality dictate.  Just good to know what rules you're breaking and how they will affect the outcome.   ;-)
2016-6-7
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adam1
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Has anyone figured out what the native iOS is for the x5, yet?  No guesses, actual proof?  Also, read that some thing the problem is firmware 1.8.  Any thoughts?
2016-6-12
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