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jrm11
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shayanza@usc.ed Posted at 2016-6-21 12:12
Masemoto copy/pasted the text from the FAA website above, I think this should answer your question ...

Thank you for pointing that out.

The email I received from the FAA does not use the work "commercial" anywhere.

The Part 107 summary sheet they put out is titled:

"Summary of Small Unmanned Aircraft Rule (Part 107)." The word "commercial" does not appear anywhere in that document.

The title of this thread does not indicate commercial operations, and the first post states rules for "all" UAS.

No wonder there is some confusion. This is just an update to the commercial operations rules. It has nothing to do with hobbyist flyers. Considering that hobbyist flyers greatly outnumber commercial flyers (based on claimed registration numbers) I would think the FAA would be a little clearer in their communication.
2016-6-21
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aopisa
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Ahh, I see I missed the "commercial" wording now too. So, now getting a 333 exemption is replaced by this new rule? It would seem so.
2016-6-21
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vboyev
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LOL, now wedding, concert and real estate photographers will need a pilots license and background check from DHS.
2016-6-21
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The dive buddha
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Well I can honestly say to fly a drone in the us the government want you to be an X fighter pilot with full aurora experience ,

I'm glad that the CAA here in the uk are a little more sensible in its requirements
2016-6-21
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aopisa
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vboyev Posted at 2016-6-22 01:36
LOL, now wedding, concert and real estate photographers will need a pilots license and background ch ...

It looks like you need to take a test to receive a certificate to operate commercially. Which is different than a pilot's license.

Also, it looks like concert photography and video is not allowed in most circumstances:

"Small unmanned aircraft may not operate over any persons not directly participating in the operation, not under a covered structure, and not inside a covered stationary vehicle."
2016-6-21
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BClarkified
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Pass an initial knowledge test ehh???  I'm guessing this "test" is something that's being designed specifically for drone pilots because the only "knowledge tests" I've seen are airmen knowledge tests in which you must have a private pilot instructor to sign you off on.  In other words,  there's gonna be some time before this gets sorted out and anyone can do their thing.  
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Cessna172
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1). The new rules pertain to COMMERCIAL USE ONLY.

2). You no longer need to have a Pilot's license.   They are creating an exam and operator certificate specifically for Drones.

3). You will be required to take an exam.   I'm sure by August they will hav PLENTY of places eager to take your money to adminster the test.  We don't know yet the cost of this exam.

4). This superceeds ALL 333 Exemptions as of LATE AUGUST (no exact date set yet).   As of the effective date, or "start date", your 333 automatically expires.   They probably will stop accepting 333 applications now and void those in process as it is now a moot point to have a 333 as of late AUgust....2 months from now.

This should result in an exponential increase in the number of people who can do Commercial photography with drones.
Great news if you want to join the wave.   bad news if you were already making money doing so with a 333.
2016-6-21
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Flight Raptor
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rreindl Posted at 2016-6-21 12:03
I will be watching this closely. Overall the rules seems to be fair.

Agreed....these are actually quite well thought out.
2016-6-21
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Flight Raptor
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Cessna172 Posted at 2016-6-21 13:57
1). The new rules pertain to COMMERCIAL USE ONLY.

2). You no longer need to have a Pilot's license. ...

Perfect summary.
2016-6-21
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Kneepuck
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Flight Raptor Posted at 2016-6-21 08:29
This goes to my post just above yours......it isn't clear if that is EVERYONE or just the ones usi ...

If you read the very last paragraph,  that will either clear it up or obfuscate it a bit more.  Here it is:


Part 107 does not apply to model aircraft that satisfy all of the criteria specified in section 336 of Public Law 112-95.
• The rule codifies the FAA’s enforcement authority in part 101 by prohibiting model aircraft operators from endangering the safety of the NAS.
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Flight Raptor
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Kneepuck Posted at 2016-6-21 14:24
If you read the very last paragraph,  that will either clear it up or obfuscate it a bit more.  He ...

Yeah, done some more reading since my original post.

You need to read section 336 of public law to see that private/recreational use are not goverened by this part 107.
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wmcvey
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bill@northwoods Posted at 2016-6-21 11:34
Exactly.  I read it as everyone which I would think could turn the industry on its ear unless it i ...

Not sure if someone else repied yet, but it looks to me as only for work(business) does this refer to hobbyist.
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wmcvey
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aopisa Posted at 2016-6-21 11:40
I read it as everyone too. They issue a ruling that goes into effect in August 2016, but I wonder h ...

Read this, not for personal use. Only for business.
http://www.faa.gov/uas/faqs/
http://www.faa.gov/uas/getting_started/
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aopisa
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wmcvey Posted at 2016-6-22 02:42
Read this, not for personal use. Only for business.
http://www.faa.gov/uas/faqs/
http://www.faa.go ...

Yeah, I missed the commercial part in the beginning of the guidelines. Thanks.
2016-6-21
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wmcvey
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Jakk Posted at 2016-6-21 12:49
Sorry, just to be totally clear,

Do these rules apply to us all? We all have to have a license now ...

We're all good if your just flying for fun, not profit or for work.

http://www.faa.gov/uas/getting_started/
http://www.faa.gov/uas/faqs/
2016-6-21
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microcyb
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-6-21 11:53
Ya it does a little.
I'm happy though that pretty much anyone now can be a commercial operator.
It ...

Send me your work, and will I help to promote you.
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rcdad2
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According to the UAV coach website you only need to be certified to fly commercially. They will be offering certification classes on their web site.
http://uavcoach.com/drone-certification/?utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=30847714&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-9MB1zAIUXx-R1rb_xgZSVaNNYsScF_0R8PRfMTZdxN4RaNoSqpvL4VHo4ymi7VqrU7r_CG8l_8EoO9gs6xJhP5MrtBaA&_hsmi=30847714
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DJI-Ken
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rcdad2@yahoo.co Posted at 2016-6-22 03:00
According to the UAV coach website you only need to be certified to fly commercially. They will be o ...

Everybody will be offering classes, if it may even be offered at a current FAA testing center when the test gets created.
Call your local airport as a lot of flight schools are FAA approved test centers.
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MD_Icarus
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How about the guys who sell ads on youtube using their drone videos?Are they under the commercial umbrella?

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Zdrone
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-6-21 08:53
Ya it does a little.
I'm happy though that pretty much anyone now can be a commercial operator.
It ...

I don't think so Ken.  It's just like digital photography.  Everyone bought one and said they were a photographer.  Smart clients knew they didn't have 10-20 years experience to create the image.  It's all how you market yourself.
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DJI-Ken
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MD_Icarus Posted at 2016-6-22 03:24
How about the guys who sell ads on youtube using their drone videos?Are they under the commercial um ...

I'd says that's commercial.
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DJI-Ken
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Zdrone Posted at 2016-6-22 03:25
I don't think so Ken.  It's just like digital photography.  Everyone bought one and said they were ...

Ya, I totally agree 100%.
I'm just making the point that there's going to be tons more serial offerings out there especially on Craigslist and places where most will tyr to capture the Real Estate market and things like that
TV/Film I'm pretty sure they will all still use companies based on experience.
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DronesAbove
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Good thing I already have some kind of background Security Clearance called T.W.I.C. - Transportations Workers Identified Credential  
This is Good News, feel sorry for those that have spent $500 to $1000 to get a 333 exempt
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Dr_Sassi
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Hi Ken,

Any suggestion, e.g., books, to learn for the test? As mentioned at around page 410+...(but no suggenstions given)

I could certainly think that DJI would have a benefit in supplying a pdf with all needed knowledge, for free or for a little fee.

If I got it right, you have a lot of pilot experience, so you might have some good re-sources.

Thanks in advanced
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Cetaman
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-6-21 05:35
I don't think so.

At all times the small unmanned aircraft must remain close

Aloha Ken,

     This "Final" is full of surprises.  The Visual Observer may be in "radio" contact with the operator.  From page 142 of the "Final";
*********************************************************
ii. Operational Requirements When Using Visual Observer

The NPRM also proposed a set of operational requirements for operations that use a visual observer. First, the operator and visual observer would be required to maintain effective communication with each other at all times. Under the NPRM, the operator and visual observer would not have to stand close enough to hear each other without technological assistance; instead, they could use a communication-assisting device, such as a radio, to communicate while standing farther apart from each other. Second, the operator would be required to ensure that the visual observer be positioned in a manner that would allow him or her to maintain visual line of sight of the small unmanned aircraft. Third, the operator and visual observer would be required to coordinate to: (1) scan the airspace where the small unmanned aircraft is operating for any potential collision hazard; and (2) maintain awareness of the position of the small unmanned aircraft through direct visual observation. This rule will finalize the above provisions as proposed, but, due to the change in the crewmember framework, this rule will refer to the remote pilot in command and the person manipulating the flight controls of the small UAS instead of “operator.”
**************************************************

Aloha and Drone On!
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Cetaman
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JustGoThere Posted at 2016-6-21 05:37
So all these people that state that they fly 2 miles away, etc. are now forced to remain in VLOS cor ...

Aloha JustGoThere,

     From page 142 of the Final document (624 pages in all);

ii. Operational Requirements When Using Visual Observer

The NPRM also proposed a set of operational requirements for operations that use a visual observer. First, the operator and visual observer would be required to maintain effective communication with each other at all times. Under the NPRM, the operator and visual observer would not have to stand close enough to hear each other without technological assistance; instead, they could use a communication-assisting device, such as a radio, to communicate while standing farther apart from each other. Second, the operator would be required to ensure that the visual observer be positioned in a manner that would allow him or her to maintain visual line of sight of the small unmanned aircraft. Third, the operator and visual observer would be required to coordinate to: (1) scan the airspace where the small unmanned aircraft is operating for any potential collision hazard; and (2) maintain awareness of the position of the small unmanned aircraft through direct visual observation. This rule will finalize the above provisions as proposed, but, due to the change in the crewmember framework, this rule will refer to the remote pilot in command and the person manipulating the flight controls of the small UAS instead of “operator.”

Aloha and Drone On!
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Cetaman
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Flight Raptor Posted at 2016-6-21 05:40
I agree with ya, Ken, but they seem to contradict themselves from one point to another....again ma ...

Aloha Raptor,

     The interpretations are confusing.  The "Final" document (624 pages of it) is specific and not confusing.
http://www.faa.gov/uas/media/RIN_2120-AJ60_Clean_Signed.pdf

(The 624 pages is too large to use as an attachment.)

Page 142;

ii. Operational Requirements When Using Visual Observer
The NPRM also proposed a set of operational requirements for operations that use a visual observer. First, the operator and visual observer would be required to maintain effective communication with each other at all times. Under the NPRM, the operator and visual observer would not have to stand close enough to hear each other without technological assistance; instead, they could use a communication-assisting device, such as a radio, to communicate while standing farther apart from each other. Second, the operator would be required to ensure that the visual observer be positioned in a manner that would allow him or her to maintain visual line of sight of the small unmanned aircraft. Third, the operator and visual observer would be required to coordinate to: (1) scan the airspace where the small unmanned aircraft is operating for any potential collision hazard; and (2) maintain awareness of the position of the small unmanned aircraft through direct visual observation. This rule will finalize the above provisions as proposed, but, due to the change in the crewmember framework, this rule will refer to the remote pilot in command and the person manipulating the flight controls of the small UAS instead of “operator.”

Aloha and Drone On!
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Cetaman
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pidetectives@ya Posted at 2016-6-21 06:02
Ok so the rules are writing Now what? What is  the next step in all this? I have been waiting on the ...

Aloha pidick,

     There will be no 333 exemption after August.  In August, testing for the 107 certificate will come into play.  Start studying and find a testing center near you.  (That information should become available soon.)

Aloha and Drone On!
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aopisa
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Cetaman Posted at 2016-6-22 05:04
Aloha pidick,

     There will be no 333 exemption after August.  In August, testing for the 107 c ...

It would be nice to know what we are supposed to be studying.
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Cetaman
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jrm11 Posted at 2016-6-21 06:10
I haven't had a chance to read the full rules text yet, so maybe I am missing something.

Looking at ...

Aloha jrm,

     The "Final" document (624 pages) is available at;

http://www.faa.gov/uas/media/RIN_2120-AJ60_Clean_Signed.pdf

You can download it and then searches become much easier.  It is too big to attach here at the Forum.

     You are right though, the "Final" does not apply to hobbyists and recreational fliers.  Even the micro UAS category of drones (Phantoms) is going to get a new Proposed Rulemaking so it does not have to come under the sUAS (part 107) regulations.  Things are moving quickly.

Aloha and Drone On!
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Cetaman
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aopisa Posted at 2016-6-21 11:16
It would be nice to know what we are supposed to be studying.

Aloha aopisa,

     It depends on what type of certificate you want and you only need a certificate if you want to fly commercially.  I am putting out a new thread on how the Phantom fits into all this.

Aloha and Drone On!
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aopisa
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Cetaman Posted at 2016-6-22 05:26
Aloha aopisa,

     It depends on what type of certificate you want and you only need a certificat ...

Great, thank you. Looking forward to,seeing it.
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pidetectives
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  So 107  how will it impact an insurance companie decisions on ensuring  a Drone? And then what type of insurance will we have to get?
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Cetaman
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pidetectives@ya Posted at 2016-6-21 12:32
So 107  how will it impact an insurance companie decisions on ensuring  a Drone? And then what typ ...

Aloha pidick,

     That is one of the questions to be addressed for the micro UAS in the new proposed rulemaking (Phantom class).  Of course the two insurance companies commenting found it very important that micro drones have insurance.

Aloha and Drone On!
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roystonaker
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shayanza@usc.ed Posted at 2016-6-21 09:09
But who's gonna stop them from doing so anyway

Someone with a shotgun
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roystonaker
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pidetectives@ya Posted at 2016-6-21 15:32
So 107  how will it impact an insurance companie decisions on ensuring  a Drone? And then what typ ...

Probably a million dollar policy..like a contractor ...insurance companies are drooling for more cash... DRONES!!, YES!!!
2016-6-21
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rodger
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Thanks for posting. I received the release as well. I feel that the FAA has realized that we are not a reckless group. The registration has proved that and now they are working with us.
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RichJ53
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-6-21 09:51
Ya for sure.
Also, heard back from HQ and coach mode is what it is and there is no detailed manual ...

okay thanks Ken,  I wont worry about it and just try it out sometime. I was hoping they could enlighten us ... so trial and error    cant be hard to use then.


Rich
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Cetaman
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jrm11 Posted at 2016-6-21 07:09
Thank you for pointing that out.

The email I received from the FAA does not use the work "commerc ...

Aloha jrm,

     If you look at the 624 page "Final" document, the word "commercial" is almost on every other page, certainly every fifth page.  So commercial is very much on the mind of the FAA regarding Part 107.  Here is the link;

http://www.faa.gov/uas/media/RIN_2120-AJ60_Clean_Signed.pdf

If you download it, you can search it way more easily than while it is on line.  Use the "Control F" function and enter your search word or words (it accepts at least 2) in the box that opens up on the upper right.  (You can also customize the screen for easy viewing if you take some time to do it.)

     Part 107 addresses all parts of the UAS airspace and so is for "all" UAS.  You right that Part 107 does not address hobbyist and recreational fliers.  That part stays the same, but its context with regard to Part 107 and commercial operations is defined in the "Final" document.  Unfortunately the onus is on the operator to know what is in a summary and what is in the new rules.

Aloha and Drone On!
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Cetaman
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aopisa Posted at 2016-6-21 07:14
Ahh, I see I missed the "commercial" wording now too. So, now getting a 333 exemption is replaced by ...

Aloha aopisa,

     If you look at the 624 page "Final" document, the word "commercial" is almost on every other page, certainly every fifth page.  So commercial is very much on the mind of the FAA regarding Part 107.  Here is the link;

http://www.faa.gov/uas/media/RIN_2120-AJ60_Clean_Signed.pdf

If you download it, you can search it way more easily than while it is on line.  Use the "Control F" function and enter your search word or words (it accepts at least 2) in the box that opens up on the upper right.  (You can also customize the screen for easy viewing if you take some time to do it.)

     Part 107 addresses all parts of the UAS airspace and so is for "all" UAS.  Jrm is right that Part 107 does not address hobbyist and recreational fliers.  That part stays the same, but its context with regard to Part 107 and commercial operations is defined in the "Final document.

Aloha and Drone On!
2016-6-21
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