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LEGAL, Need Help! Drone laws, neighbor problem.
5856 25 2016-8-7
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danieldust
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I live in a beautiful non-gated community in South Florida, there is an HOA, but it is not too strict.
I started flying my P3A over my house, I took off and flew straight up to 270 feet. I then flew over to a nature preserve, and took some photos of the swamp.
There are a few houses about 200 feet away with pools facing the preserve. I never flew over those houses.
I came back in to land and was getting ready to go inside, when I see a police officer pull in. He asks me what I was doing, and I told him I was flying my drone. He was VERY Friendly and nice. He told me that a neighbor had complained about seeing a drone and called the police, I then explained to him that my P3 is FAA registered and I was doing everything legally, which I was. He asked to see the footage or pictures I took, and I showed him within the DJI GO app, and he said thank you and told me that he himself loves drones. So we chatted for about 5 minutes and he said he will have to go back over to the person's house (they never told me where the person was located) and explain to them that I was doing everything legally.
So about 2 hourse later the officer gives me a call and tells me that they are very angry. And are treating it as an invasion of privacy, and the officer told them that I never took photos of their house, and the camera can't zoom, and of course that I am FAA registered. So he said that the people want to make an HOA law that says you aren't allowed to fly drones, but at the time I was flying it, I was never over their house. What do you guys think about all of this?

Thank You..

2016-8-7
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digdat0
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That sucks. Sounds like an opportunity to be proactive, door to door and get the other home owners on your side through positive education. I find the term "drone" has a bad connotation, I've stopped using it. I call mine a quadcopter, nothing else. If people ask,  you say it's a rc helicopter with 4 total props. I'd also read on your HOA and find out how bylaws are passed, know how it happens and who votes. Make sure you take your case to that forum, politely and professionally. Wear a suit and tie. Research facts and share them. Worst case, ofer free aerial photos of people's houses. Offer to inspect roofs, gutters and trees. Get the rest of the home owners informed and on your side.
2016-8-7
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danieldust
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I will go to the board meeting, and let them know the facts. The only person allowed to regulate the airspace is the FAA.
2016-8-7
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mochorm
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Didn't realize you would become an educator when you bought your bird did you

Me either, but this new age seems to be fearful of everything and "MY INDIVIDUAL" rights are much more important than anyone else's or even the community as a whole! Now please don't get me going on this whole subject because I do NOT like the current direction.

In any case digdat0 makes some good points. IMO your best bet is to ensure the people in your HAO are educated about Xcopters, else the squeaky wheel will get the grease and they will be banned from your community. Bring the bird, some video and the rule book with you to show them how everything works.

I've resorted to calling my Xcopter a Model which in Canada has different rules, than an Xcopter that is more than 2kg. For some reason when people know it isn't a Drone and that it is ONLY a model with a camera that can not zoom, they seem to get on board a lot easier!

I live in a similar situation but we don't have any HOA. I was hovering for a minute or so playing around with the R/C and Tablet. A bit later two home owners walked all the way across the park area to ask me if I was spying on them as they saw my bird just hovering. I told them I no I wasn't spying and showed them what I was doing. They were both quite interested and one of the guys laughingly said "ya, I thought you might be stealing my landscaping plan" We all had a good laugh and two weeks later there was one of the guys flying his new Solo xCopter

Education is key for the most part, but there are always going to be dorks around no matter what a person does, so it's part of the experience. Just think about how people reacted to new technology over the decades, this is the same thing! And to boot we have this image of spying Killer Drones we have to deal with, thanks in large part to the U.S. Military.

Educate, be safe and let the cards fall where they may.

Just read you reply sounds like you want to take an adversarily approach, good luck!
2016-8-7
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Cetaman
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danieldust Posted at 2016-8-7 09:20
I will go to the board meeting, and let them know the facts. The only person allowed to regulate the ...

Aloha daniel,

     That really sucks!  You have your points right, but they can shut down drone flights from home owners in the association.  You could also petition for grandfather rights.  You had your drone before they prohibited them.  Denial could lead them to a lawsuit you could file and probably win since their position is irrational.

     The FAA has a privacy guideline that you should provide at the meeting you plan to attend.  It is attached.  You can follow that with an offer to transit over private property at 350 to 400 feet.  You can barely see or hear the Phantom at that altitude.  The attached FAA guidelines might have a lower number you may prefer to use since it is the FAA and the US Government's Privacy Task Force you will be quoting.  Maybe you should start low and negotiate higher.  If they negotiate, you win.

Aloha and Drone On!

BestPracticesforUASPrivacy.pdf

305.89 KB, Down times: 33

2016-8-7
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danieldust
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Cetaman Posted at 2016-8-8 04:48
Aloha daniel,

     That really sucks!  You have your points right, but they can shut down drone fl ...

Hi Cetaman,

Thank you for the response. The PDF will not open.
2016-8-7
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digdat0
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Here's the two FAA PDFs
Privacy best practices : https://www.ntia.doc.gov/files/n ... ccountability_0.pdf
Rule overview:  http://www.faa.gov/uas/media/Part_107_Summary.pdf
2016-8-7
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danieldust
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Thank you.
2016-8-7
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droneflyers.com
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As others have mentioned, the HOA has no jurisdiction over the airspace - in practicality, this means anything higher than the houses. Legally it means from the ground up.

My thinking is this...
1. If they outlaw drones - does this mean the person who flies an $8 nano drone in their backyard can't do it? Tiny R/C helis that kids get for presents? How the heck is an HOA going to deal with all those definitions?
2. On the other hand - flying from tiny suburban lots is not really what these things are made for...I have an acre and no HOA and only 8 houses on the cul-de-sac but still I do most of my flying by driving or walking somewhere.

Flying up to 200+ feet is, IMHO, your due diligence in a general sense. However, if that still requires you to fly over a bunch of private property that can be a PITA - what if the drone goes down over someone else's house?

If the HOA does anything perhaps it should be a request to stay 150 or 200 feet high over others property.

They (the HOA) should keep in mind that with the new FAA rules a lot of contractors are going to start using them - insurance companies too.

You might want to show the HOA some examples of pics taken from legal Helicopters 500 feet and higher so they know that photography vastly more detailed is 100% legal.
Our local heli tour guy takes pics which read the registration numbers off boats - from 100's of feet away.
http://www.newporthelicoptertours.com/aerialphotography/
2016-8-7
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wmcvey
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danieldust Posted at 2016-8-7 15:20
I will go to the board meeting, and let them know the facts. The only person allowed to regulate the ...

A HOA can make a rule against just about anything they want. Of course within reason, but a rule against drone flying is totally in the realm of reason.
2016-8-7
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Cetaman
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danieldust Posted at 2016-8-7 11:19
Hi Cetaman,

Thank you for the response. The PDF will not open.

Aloha daniel,

     The new nomenclature will now open.  Good Luck!

Aloha and Drone On!
2016-8-7
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Cetaman
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digdat0 Posted at 2016-8-7 12:12
Here's the two FAA PDFs
Privacy best practices : https://www.ntia.doc.gov/files/ntia/publications/vo ...

Aloha digdat0,

     Eh!  how come your's one open and mine just sit there like one babooze!

Aloha and Drone On!
2016-8-7
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ayojagt-sp
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I don't know about the USA or Canada, but in Holland home owners have no say over the air space above their property. It is then just a matter of at what height someone will fly over the property. That is a grey area I think.
the other issue is privacy and that can be resolved also by flying at a certain height?.
2016-8-8
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danieldust
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To whom it may concern:

I live in the "not going on the internet" and recently got the "Magical" Police called on me because I was flying my DJI Phantom 3 drone. A neighbor several houses down had called the police about me flying my drone above 350 Ft. I showed the officer my Federal Aviation Administration registration and followed out with a brief presentation of the capabilities and safety of this drone. The person that complained voiced concern about invasion of privacy. I showed the officer my flight logs and GPS route and there was no indication of me flying my drone above his/her property. After this the officer concluded that I was doing nothing illegally and told that to the fellow neighbor. The officer then told me that the neighbor will get the HOA to file a ban on drones flying within the neighborhood boundaries. I would like to make clear that the only agency allowed to place a ban on drones, or institute a No-Fly-Zone, is the FAA. I have no problem with a ban being placed in the neighborhood, I will fly my drone at the park. I just want to make clear that the only agency or association allowed to place a ban on drones or create a No Fly Zone, is the FAA. The FAA is the only agency that has control of the airspace. The HOA can no more regulate a drone in the air then they can regulate aircraft (it's been ruled that a drone is an "aircraft" when it comes to FAA regulation). I would also like to make clear that there are no clear laws yet banning drones from being flown. And I had no intent whatsoever to invade into anyone's privacy, I am a part of this neighborhood and love it here. I was flying over the nature preserve and did not hover over anyone's property. Everything was done legally and within FAA guidelines. I am a member of the AMA and carry Liability coverage for flying my drone, as well as a $2.5 million general drone liability protection. I would be more than willing to meet at the next Board Meeting and give a brief presentation about the Safety and Regulations regarding drones, what the HOA can do to enforce them, as well as show the board member's how the drone works and the safety and privacy features that DJI implements into the drones.
2016-8-9
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danieldust
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That is what I wrote the HOA in my neighborhood, please let me know what you think..
2016-8-9
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jamesazen
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Hi Daniel, I live in Palm Beach County FL, Which has an ordinance:

Sec. 21-40. - Aircraft.
No one operating, directing or responsible for any aircraft, seaplane, helicopter, glider, balloon, dirigible, parachute or other aerial apparatus shall take off from or land within park property except in emergency law enforcement situations or when written permission has been obtained from the director.

There are R/C airfields in a few county parks, usually operated by an orginazition that has obtained the Directtor's permission, they all require AMA insurance
which I don't have YET.

That's the thing about governing entities, they can do what they want. Homeowner Associations have a vested interest in ensuring community standards are kept to ensure property values don't fall etc.. The association can prohibit anything, as long as it doesn't directly contradict the lasw of the county, state, or federal government. Imagine what would happen if the association tried to prohibit gun ownership within thier jurisdiction.
Lengthy legal battles ensue, and eventually the state rules that the association cannot ban gun ownership (for instance)

The trick is to not let them pass such a prohibition against drones in the first place. Once there is a rule in place - good luck ever having it removed. So ask to be allowed to make a presentation, so at least they'll know what they are talking about. Emphasize the safety, training and upcoming FAA part 107 rules and licensing requirements.

Hopefully they're reasonable, and willing to hear you out. Good Luck
2016-8-9
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Cessna172
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According to Mirriam-Webster Dictionary....

Hobby - Noun
     :  an interest or activity engaged in for pleasure
     :  a pursuit outside one's regular occupation engaged in especially for relaxation


When you have to work this hard just to do it....is it still a "hobby" ?

2016-8-9
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billwish76
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danieldust Posted at 2016-8-10 07:49
To whom it may concern:

I live in the "not going on the internet" and recently got the "Magical" Po ...

sounds good. but i live in ca la county and they have there own laws like no parks. i went to the cliffs of pv so beautiful. and i was told i cant now I'm flying a few hundred feet out over the ocean 250 feet in the air and they're telling me people will call the police and the police will confiscate the Drone and that the city is working on a no drone ban. So I really do love the thought of the FAA regulating only but I don't see that and when a city makes a law the cops will just simply an act on it because it's the law of the city they're employed by
2016-8-9
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Swedrone
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What a dork. In my country you can hoover over someones house all day if you like. Completely legal. You can walk on their property too if you like
2016-8-11
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Murtha
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Hi, I had the same problem last weekend, one neighbour started moaning and threaten to shoot the drone.
He is an old man, so I went to see him and explained how the thing works, I had my laptop with me so I show him the video footage. He understood and asked me to come back to take photos and video of his property…
Sometimes education is the best way!…And to be honest who moans or threaten to shoot down small aircraft flying near by ? no one… I think people watch too much TV…
2016-8-11
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gil
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Hey, NEVER underestimate the righteous indignation of an asshole.  Here in Kentucky there was an incident you may have heard about:
Judge Dismisses Charges on Man Who Shot Down Drone in Backyard

The owner of the Phantom then filed a Federal lawsuit against the trigger happy yahoo (but I don't know if and how it's been resolved):
After neighbor shot down his drone, Kentucky man files federal lawsuit
2016-8-11
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hallmark007
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danieldust Posted at 2016-8-10 00:50
That is what I wrote the HOA in my neighborhood, please let me know what you think..

Hi danieldust, I think your doing the right thing facing your problem head on, however while the law seems to be on your side sometimes people power or in your case some amazing begrudgery on behalf of your so called neighbours may cause so much bad feeling and awkwardness for you that you won't be bothered flying around that area, but I do think these people need to be put straight, there arguments are pure vindictive (small minded people), they think they can bully you into stopping something you enjoy doing, your knowledge of safety issues and responsibility around flying UAVs may embarrass them, but it won't change there minds.
It's infuriating these people are 100 times more likely to have there privacy intruded on by mobile phones,social media or google, they are 10 times more likely to be hit and injured by a motorcycle .
I wish you luck in your endeavour right is on your side, but you are dealing with people with brains the size of a pea.
GOOD LUCK MAN
2016-8-11
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danieldust
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hallmark007 Posted at 2016-8-12 04:38
Hi danieldust, I think your doing the right thing facing your problem head on, however while the l ...

Yes I agree with you.

The police officer gave me a call that the neighbors called him again and said they want to File a Report to the FAA. So I sent the officer the link to my HealthyDrones report and he said based on the lack of evidence coming from the other party and the overwhelming amount of evidence from my side, he concluded I did not break any local or federal law.
He did say that they can ask the FAA questions, but the Police Dept. will not be filing a report against me to the FAA. I also told the officer that if those neighbors keep molesting me I will file a law suit against them.
2016-8-13
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danieldust
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I tried to explain how this DJI P3 works to these people, but they are not cooperating with me. The HOA has called me and said they would NOT file a ban on drones because they have no control over the airspace. They also apologized for the neighbors actions and said that they call the police about everything-
All of my neighbors love the drone, except for them. But I think they are just angry that I didn't do anything wrong and the HOA isn't on their side either. LOL!
2016-8-13
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hallmark007
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danieldust Posted at 2016-8-13 17:02
I tried to explain how this DJI P3 works to these people, but they are not cooperating with me. The  ...

Good for you mate,seems you have plenty on your side, good luck
2016-8-13
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P4PCommander
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danieldust Posted at 2016-8-9 15:50
That is what I wrote the HOA in my neighborhood, please let me know what you think..

Let me give you another point to bring up that everyone seems to forget! has that Same Moron complained about Google Earth? they not only fly over his property and take photo's, but also drive right by his house in a car and also photo his house! how many complaints has he made about GOOGLE EARTH???
2018-4-21
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