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FCC VS CE in the rest of the world
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15384 62 2016-8-19
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stinkyjan
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South Africa
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I originally purchased a Standard but returned it as the range was just short of 100m. 120m if I was really lucky, but I mostly lost signal at 80m. After a lenghty fight for two weeks with the company I bought the drone from I managed to upgrade it to the Advanced.

The problem I have with DJI, their resellers and their marketing material. Is that they all claim the units can fly certain ranges based on the FCC standards.

After some searching I found out that unless you are in the USA your Phantom will not meet the ranges they advertised... you will get pushed down to CE standard for europe.

Now I DO NOT live anywhere near USA or Europe... I live at the bottom tip of Africa in a country called South Africa (believe it or not Len in the DJI support chat has never heard of my country and was unable to answer my question.)

Now South Africa has its own EIRP rules and regulations that looks pretty much the same as USA's FCC standard. >>> http://www.gov.za/sites/www.gov.za/files/38301_gen1108.pdf <<<

The main question I have is where does FCC and CE apply. Does DJI have a map or a list of countries that they can give us with the standards/rules that they are enforcing on the rest of the planet? The world is big and there is not just America and Europe that exists as the guy in the chat thought.

Secondly if you are limiting the products by GPS position, could you please advertise your products in such a way that you do not mislead so the MAJORITY of the world.

Lastly, if you are going to use intelegent systems to ensure you product complies with the different standards of countries then please include other countries in the list with their rules and regulations.
2016-8-19
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labroides
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"The problem I have with DJI, their resellers and their marketing material. Is that they all claim the units can fly certain ranges based on the FCC standards."

The problem with your argument is that it's wrong.
Here's how DJI advertise the P3 Advanced:
Max Transmission Distance        Up to 5 km or 3.1 miles (unobstructed, free of interference) when FCC compliant
Up to 3.5 km or 2.1 miles (unobstructed, free of interference) when CE compliant

See ...  they advertise both and the ranges they quote are achievable and more in a good, interference-free area.
2016-8-19
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MD_Icarus
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United States
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Do you think they are under pressure to limit the actual range though?  

When I flew my P4 with the factory firmware, it used to achieve about double the range I get now before I get Disconnected, and I fly the same areas.
2016-8-19
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stinkyjan
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South Africa
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labroides@yahoo Posted at 2016-8-19 13:57
"The problem I have with DJI, their resellers and their marketing material. Is that they all claim t ...

I beg to differ, although some pages do say that others on the official DJI site as well as some of their re-sellers say otherwise.

5. How far can I fly my Phantom 3?
The signal transmission distance will vary depending on environmental conditions, but the Phantom 3 series can reach distances of up to 3.1 miles (5 kilometers) away from the pilot when unobstructed and no interference.

(source: http://www.dji.com/product/phantom-3-adv/info#faq)

I would accept the CE standard if DJI would tell us where in the world which standards apply at the point of sale.
2016-8-19
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labroides
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stinkyjan Posted at 2016-8-19 22:38
I beg to differ, although some pages do say that others on the official DJI site as well as some o ...

And I've seen A P3 go that far  ...and in CE land too.
So where's the false advertising?
DJI's specifications for range are conservative and have been exceeded many times by many users.
2016-8-19
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DJI-Ken
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I've sent your request of a list to R&D along with the link you've provided, I have no idea if they will provide a list.I've edited your post and removed the "false advertising" as the range is described exactly as it works.
2016-8-19
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TechReviews
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-8-19 16:06
I've sent your request of a list to R&D along with the link you've provided, I have no idea if they  ...


Hi


DJI-Ken,

As a new owner/pilot of my p3 pro and in the UK i'm presuming i would be in ce mode when flying ? how do i know which mode i'm actually in ? how is the modes determined - by model,by country,by gps ?
As i undertsand the ce mode has 3km range compared to the 5km in fcc mode ?

thanks
2016-8-19
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DJI-Ken
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Yes, it is determined by the GPS location when you power up the aircraft.
Here are the specs   http://www.dji.com/product/phantom-3-pro/info#specs
You should get 3.5km in an interference free area.
2016-8-19
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TechReviews
lvl.4
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-8-19 16:38
Yes, it is determined by the GPS location when you power up the aircraft.
Here are the specs   ht ...



many thanks for the quick and prompt reply bud
2016-8-19
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DJI-Ken
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TechReviews Posted at 2016-8-19 23:51
many thanks for the quick and prompt reply bud

No problem, have a great weekend.
2016-8-19
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TechReviews
lvl.4
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-8-19 17:14
No problem, have a great weekend.


thanks, you to bud.

hoping the weather is better on the weekend than it is today in the north east of UK,dull clouds,rain,basically miserable. I was hoping to get a flight in today but not to be

Still hoping to win the lottery and move somewhere in the us nice an hot or just somewhere its not raining,windy all the time lol.
2016-8-19
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DJI-Ken
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TechReviews Posted at 2016-8-20 00:20
thanks, you to bud.

hoping the weather is better on the weekend than it is today in the north ea ...

Ya, sorry about your weather. I'm in Southern California and cannot complain at all.Now back to the thread topic.
2016-8-19
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bigglyguy
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Malaysia
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If some models can go to 3.5 km in CE, why is my Standard dumbed down to 500?
2016-8-19
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DJI-Ken
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bigglyguy Posted at 2016-8-20 00:44
If some models can go to 3.5 km in CE, why is my Standard dumbed down to 500?

The Pro/Advanced operate with Lightbridge technology which gives you far greater range.
2016-8-19
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bigglyguy
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I understand that, what I don't understand is why the Standard is deliberately restricted? It wouldn't be far greater range if you didn't restrict the Standard...

So the CE thing is, or isn't, about range?
2016-8-19
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calls4u2
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-8-19 16:38
Yes, it is determined by the GPS location when you power up the aircraft.
Here are the specs   ht ...

So if the aircraft couldn't get GPS on powerup, would it be CE, FCC, or ???

Once the UK is out of the EU mess, will we get our power back (assuming we go back to 100mw as it was before).
2016-8-19
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DJI-Ken
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calls4u2 Posted at 2016-8-20 01:25
So if the aircraft couldn't get GPS on powerup, would it be CE, FCC, or ???

Once the UK is out of ...

if you are flying it indoors, it may not get GPS so it doesn't matter. If outdoors it will get GPS.
2016-8-19
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DrawsWithLight.
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calls4u2 Posted at 2016-8-19 18:25
So if the aircraft couldn't get GPS on powerup, would it be CE, FCC, or ???

Once the UK is out of ...

I'm not sure being out of the EU would make any difference to the restriction imposed, in fact, the government could restrict it even further?!
2016-8-19
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Mad_Angler1
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bigglyguy Posted at 2016-8-19 18:13
I understand that, what I don't understand is why the Standard is deliberately restricted? It wouldn ...

The standard is not rest rocket it's a completely different system, the rang the standard has is based on wifi range

The P3 Advance, Pro and P4 use Lightbridge and it's a completely different system and it able to handle local interference much better than wifi as well as offering much better range and latency.

Two completely different systems used.
2016-8-19
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Mad_Angler1
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calls4u2 Posted at 2016-8-19 18:25
So if the aircraft couldn't get GPS on powerup, would it be CE, FCC, or ???

Once the UK is out of ...

Would generally default to FCC until it get valid positional data.

It is believed and has been noticed that some data is taken from the device as well if available to set location but no guarantee this does happen.  
2016-8-19
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AG0N-Gary
Captain
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Although this isn't true in all cases, the problem with advertising comes into play when wannabe owners choose to take the advertised "up to" range as what they will get in all cases.  In reality, they will most likely get less range than the advertised "up to" range, because those numbers are under ideal conditions.  You might even do better than those numbers, but most likely will get less.

The CE and FCC standards determine things like how much power the transmitter can have, what frequencies they can operate on, how much antenna is allowed, etc.  I'm sure DJI is choosing which standard a system uses so that they may legally sell in that country.  Otherwise, they may not be allowed to sell there.  If you feel your country is receiving the wrong standard, get in touch with DJI and provide documentation so they can investigate.
2016-8-19
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bigglyguy
lvl.4
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So 500 meters isn't a limit, more a case of "what you can, in perfect conditions, expect now that we halved or worse the power for CE"?
2016-8-19
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labroides
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bigglyguy Posted at 2016-8-20 15:37
So 500 meters isn't a limit, more a case of "what you can, in perfect conditions, expect now that we ...

No ... it's what you can get with wifi.
Depending on interference and atmospheric conditions and whether you have your antenna orientated properly. sometimes you'll get a bit more and sometimes a bit less.
If you had Lightbridge, you could go kilometres but wifi is not in the same league.
2016-8-19
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cloudycante
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labroides@yahoo Posted at 2016-8-20 07:47
No ... it's what you can get with wifi.
Depending on interference and atmospheric conditions and w ...

Well, not exactly.

"The remote controller allows a flying range of 3,280 feet (1000m) in FCC compliant mode and 1,640 feet (500m) in CE"

Taken from here: http://dl.djicdn.com/downloads/p ... Guide_en_201509.pdf
2016-8-19
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labroides
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cloudycante Posted at 2016-8-20 16:40
Well, not exactly.

"The remote controller allows a flying range of 3,280 feet (1000m) in FCC comp ...

And ... Depending on interference and atmospheric conditions and whether you have your antenna orientated properly. sometimes you'll get a bit more and sometimes a bit less.
If you had Lightbridge, you could go kilometres but wifi is not in the same league.

Taken from here:  http://forum.dji.com/forum.php?m ... 1&fromuid=10818
2016-8-19
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cloudycante
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labroides@yahoo Posted at 2016-8-20 08:55
And ... Depending on interference and atmospheric conditions and whether you have your antenna ori ...


That's clear, I was merely pointing out that 500mt is not a limitation of wifi, since in FCC it can reach two times that length
2016-8-19
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bigglyguy
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So it IS an artificial flight range limitation?

I'm still unclear if it is a distance in meters limitation or a limit of transmitter power limitation?

2016-8-20
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cloudycante
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It's both. Because it's wifi it won't be able to reach the same distance as p3a/p3p, but considering a perfect environment and two p3s, the FCC will go further than the CE one, in reason of a higher transmission power consented by the FCC regulation.
2016-8-20
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calls4u2
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DrawsWithLight. Posted at 2016-8-19 22:11
I'm not sure being out of the EU would make any difference to the restriction imposed, in fact, th ...

Since it's primarily an EU restriction, which effected many people with wifi and other devices on 2.4ghz, a decent government would look to putting it right, and at least we'll be able to lobby for it (something impossible to do with the EU). Lets hope they fix it anyways! Either way, I can't see them restricting it further as many government organisations here in the UK also felt the punch when they had to change to inferior equipment.

Personally I think it's SAFER if you can keep your equipment under control if it's effected by distance, interference, etc...
2016-8-24
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DrawsWithLight.
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calls4u2 Posted at 2016-8-24 15:25
Since it's primarily an EU restriction, which effected many people with wifi and other devices on  ...

Admittedly I know very little of this EU law, it may be an EU restriction but it doesn't necessarily mean the UK government isn't partly or wholly responsible for the law being introduced. It's the European Commission's job to propose the law but which member state wanted it introduced in the first place, many of the proposals that it brings forward have been requested by national political leaders. Many of the EU health and safety legislations have been requested by the UK government. If you can enlighten me further please do so.

"at least we'll be able to lobby for it (something impossible to do with the EU)" - We can, we would lobby our EU representative who would take it to Brussels.
2016-8-24
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calls4u2
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DrawsWithLight. Posted at 2016-8-24 16:17
Admittedly I know very little of this EU law, it may be an EU restriction but it doesn't necessaril ...

Our EU MEPs aren't allowed to propose anything, they are solely there to vote yes/no/abstain on ideas put forward by the commission. Indeed on some occasions they don't even have the option of voting NO - I'm aware of at least one occasion where the only options the MEPS had were YES, or ABSTAIN.

It probably came about as part of their power hungry 'green' obsession, less power meaning cleaner air or whatever, from what I recall on that particular legislation, they simply looked at ALL EU member states and picked the lowest possible power of them all (likely they didn't even take frequency into account either). They don't understand any of the technology so just do things on a whim. Another of their crazy rules is that ALL storage devices must have spindown/powerdown settings, this includes USB memory sticks etc.

As another example. the one where bananas have to be a certain shape. I very much doubt any member state put forward that idea, just another of their obsessions I guess!

Actually, wasn't the restriction just to the 5ghz band? The majority of the EU's legislation is so obfuscated that it's difficult to find out any facts - it's a bit like their accounts!
2016-8-25
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tiscali
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calls4u2 Posted at 2016-8-25 12:23
Our EU MEPs aren't allowed to propose anything, they are solely there to vote yes/no/abstain on id ...

Ah, the old EU banana myth ...
2016-8-25
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calls4u2
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tiscali Posted at 2016-8-25 15:01
Ah, the old EU banana myth ...

Here's the more up to date legislation on bananas, so you can check up on the 'myth' yourself: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A32006R0228
Be sure to read all the articles that came prior as most of them still apply. Yes the rules have now been relaxed on certain types of 'bent' bananas, but they certainly were'nt a myth.

Or you could contact the official 'Management Committee for Bananas', while you're at it ask them how much we pay them!
2016-8-25
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DrawsWithLight.
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calls4u2 Posted at 2016-8-25 12:23
Our EU MEPs aren't allowed to propose anything, they are solely there to vote yes/no/abstain on id ...

I don't want to fall out over EU discussions but this isn't what Full Facts are stating

EU facts behind the claims: 'Brussels bureaucrats'
2016-8-30
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calls4u2
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DrawsWithLight. Posted at 2016-8-30 10:04
I don't want to fall out over EU discussions but this isn't what Full Facts are stating

EU facts  ...

Say what you like dude, we're not gonna fall out over any difference of opinion
Opening sentence I'll quote which says it all:
“The European Commission doesn’t make laws. It only makes proposals, which are then debated, amended and passed (or rejected) by elected national governments and directly-elected MEPs”

Meaning that the 'commission' 'proposes' the rulings, and eventually the MEPs get a short time (typically 1 minute) to put forward what they think is right or wrong with it, very few MEPs actually give any input generally speaking, after this they have 3 buttons in front of them YES, NO, ABSTAIN. In at least one case over the past year the NO button was disabled purposely.

Also bare in mind that on most days there are 50+ of these 'proposals' that must be voted on, giving the MEPs very little time or chance for anything other that button pushing.

Knowing some of our MEPs' personally, I can say that the whole thing is a charade, a theatre, and causes much frustration. All but the strongest end up giving in and just being 'button pushers' - Again I'll point out that our MEPs are not able to propose.

I did post the link that the EU themselves post though, there are many sites out there such as 'fullfact' that read out the bits that fill their agenda and repost, missing out the rest. Better to hear it from the horses mouth and see the full facts on the EU site - or the actual 'EU official committee for bananas' above :p

Hope you're enjoying the weather today, I'm just a little further North than you and it's looking good out there - sadly I'm stuck at work, though I might manage to escape! lol. Look forward to some more of your pics
2016-8-30
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t0mb0la
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Semi off topic, but I wonder how much more wifi interference we are likely to see in the UK - with BT Smart Hub wifi range now up to 350-500m?
2016-8-30
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bigglyguy
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As someone pointed out, having control over your aircraft is obviously safer than a "safety limit" that means it will rapidly go OUT of control and entirely reliant upon automated Return Home systems.

What's really irritating is I'm not even in the EU, I'm in Malaysia, but it seems DJI have slapped me with the exact same nanny state restriction?
2016-9-11
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TechReviews
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t0mb0la Posted at 2016-8-30 17:56
Semi off topic, but I wonder how much more wifi interference we are likely to see in the UK - with B ...

hi mate


not sure where you got those figures from,probably from BT advertised on tv,but im with bt infinity 2 with smart hub and cant even get 40-50 feet from my house without loosing wifi on my iphone 6s.
2016-9-11
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Aardvark
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Probably their test-bench figures for the new Hub6 router.
2016-9-11
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Aardvark Posted at 2016-9-11 21:50
Probably their test-bench figures for the new Hub6 router.



oh ok,interesting.

thanks
2016-9-11
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