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jittery footage
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DroneDelegation
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I am a complete film newb.  Any insight as to why this footage is jittery will be greatly appreciated.  I cant remember the settings on the car shot but the other ones are at f/1.7 100 iso 4k 30fps  shutter 60
2016-10-8
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Donnie
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Possibly the filming in 4k may be part of it .  perhaps try a lower format like 1080 30 fps and see if it improves.  If you have a 4k machine for playback you may not notice the jitters. when I noticed jitters in mine I  loaded my clip to my daughters 4k capable machine and the Jitters went away,  so now I moslty record in 1080 and get better results.
I am still learning myself and dont  know it all by a LONG shot , so others please chime in.

Where was this filmed by the way ?  kinda looked like the Eatswood Mall in Lansing Michigan.

donnie
2016-10-9
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DroneDelegation
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Donnie Posted at 2016-10-9 10:12
Possibly the filming in 4k may be part of it .  perhaps try a lower format like 1080 30 fps and see  ...

Thanks, Yea i do not have a 4k capable computer monitor as of yet but I shoot everything in 4k and it seems 1 out of every 3 are jittery, not all of them.  well maybe ill start shooting a couple in 1080.  This was shot in Brunswick Ohio south of Cleveland.
2016-10-9
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Donnie
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DroneDelegation Posted at 2016-10-9 13:33
Thanks, Yea i do not have a 4k capable computer monitor as of yet but I shoot everything in 4k and  ...

That is why it looks kinda like Michigan, were neighbors.   Let me know how the 1080 works out .

donnie
2016-10-9
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jimhare
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Hi There.  The jitter you are seeing is because the movement is too fast for the frame rate.  

Basically you are dividing the distance you move every second into 30 separate chunks, which creates a stutter, and it is most apparant in shots like the car, where you can see a lot of detail in the grass.

There are very specific rules in filmmaking about this, which is why you don't see it happen in movies.

If you want smooth motion try shooting at 60FPS instead of 30.  You will get silky smooth movement.  The downside is 60FPS has a distinct look which isn't very "filmic."   It will look like hyper-video footage rather than a motion picture.  

For many this is absolutely fine and they prefer to see the smooth motion.   For others it's a crime against art and should be avoided.

Completely personal aesthetic choice but regardless, this is at the root of your problem.

Hope this helps!

Jim
2016-10-9
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Donnie
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jimhare Posted at 2016-10-9 14:17
Hi There.  The jitter you are seeing is because the movement is too fast for the frame rate.  

Basi ...

I thought it was correct Jim , double the frame rate is the General rule correct  frame rate of 30fps = shutter speed 1/60th.   should it be even faster  Or am I mixed up ?
Do you recomend to film in 4k if you cant review it in a device ( laptop or whatever )  with 4k capabilities ? Am I all wet recomending 1080 ?

thanks, I yield to the expert on this topic....

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2016-10-9
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Donnie
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DroneDelegation Posted at 2016-10-9 13:33
Thanks, Yea i do not have a 4k capable computer monitor as of yet but I shoot everything in 4k and  ...

FYI , Jim Hare has many videos on filming, he is the real deal !!

donnie
2016-10-9
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DroneDelegation
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Thank you Jim,
     
    That makes sense. Even though I don't have a 4k monitor i like the 4k image over the 1080 all day.  So If I want the cinematic view fly slower at 30 fps 4k and speed it up in post, or will speeding it up in post still give jittery feel?

Thanks,
  Joel


2016-10-9
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SkyHigh UAV
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This is a good guide, it may help.....Compare FPS
2016-10-10
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jimhare
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Donnie Posted at 2016-10-10 07:56
I thought it was correct Jim , double the frame rate is the General rule correct  frame rate of 30f ...

Hi Donnie,

I always advocate filming in 4k even if you publish at 1080.  This is for two reasons.  The first is oversampling.  It's always better to start big and tighten up the pixels in post.

Second reason is you can reframe or stabilize if needed.  Sometimes it's nice to have extra real estate in the frame to play with.

Regarding shutter, I usually leave it at 1/60 for 60FPS and don't use the 180 rule.  
2016-10-11
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jimhare
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DroneDelegation Posted at 2016-10-10 08:02
Thank you Jim,
     
    That makes sense. Even though I don't have a 4k monitor i like the 4k imag ...

Hey Joel,

If you really want the cinematic look shoot at 24FPS with 1/48 shutter speed.  DO NOT SPEED IT UP IN POST, just enjoy the look!  Yes, you'll want to slow the flying down a bit to avoid jittery footage.

If you don't care about the cinematic look and want to fly fast, shoot at 60FPS with 1/60 shutter.  

Either way play the footage back at the same frame rate you shot.

Jim
2016-10-11
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werner.daehn
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I don't want to argue with the experts and 60fps is best for sure but...... for me this looks like a mismatch in frame rates between raw footage and editing tool.
To cut a long story short: What is the fps setting of the raw material (30fps you said), the fps of the rendered movie clip and your monitor's refresh rate?


Details:
Imagine you have a very fast movement, say the copter films to the left and the church is passing by with 180 pixel per second.
The smoothest movement you will get with higher frame rates, say 60fps, then in each frame it moves just 3 pixel.
With 30fps it is 6 pixel already.
So there is no doubt.

But now imagine you take the e.g 30 fps raw material into your editor and its rendering engine is set to 24fps.  It has to adjust the stream now by dropping every 5th frame. As a result your image will move 4 times by 6 pixel and then jump by 12 pixel once, then the next 4 by 6 pixel.....
01 02 03 04  05 06 07 08  09 10 11 12 13  14 15 16 17 18  19 20 21  22 23 24   (24fps frame number)
01-02-03-04-06-07-08-09-11-12-13-14-16-17-18-19-21-22-23-24-26-27-28-29  (30fps frame number used)



Usually the eye is lacy and does not recognice that but obviously is is not a smooth movement. With 60fps and short jumps due to frame rate adjustments, the human eye is not able to catch up. But with 24fps it is.


The same happens again, this time with the monitor the 24fps are now upsampled to the monitors or TVs frame rate. The TV can adjust to the frame rates of 24fps, 30fps,... the computer monitor is locked at 60fps nowadays. Check the computer's monitor settings. If it truly is 60fps, then this upsampling has enough reserve and won't bother you. But playing your 24fps rendered material on a 30fps monitor will get you in uneven movements again.And play the same move file on your TV for comparison.

(That is one of the few advantages of interlaced video setting)



I for example use 4k with 30fps, render it with 30fps and my monitor has 60fps. When playing it with the windows mediaplayer, it still looks awful. But with another player it is perfect.
And when checking every single frame in the raw material, each frame is perfect, no blurry image. Actually it looks like a photo.










2016-10-12
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DroneDelegation
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werner.daehn@go Posted at 2016-10-12 06:14
I don't want to argue with the experts and 60fps is best for sure but...... for me this looks like a ...

werner,
         my raw material was set at 30fps, rendered movie clip was set automatically to 29.97(should i change this to 30? I havent tried and i have other video that is smooth so i cant imagine that is the problem.), and my monitors refresh rate is 144hz so i get a steady 144fps when nothing else is running.
Now i want to go through the video frame for frame and see what i can see.
    Thanks,
    Joel
2016-10-12
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DroneDelegation
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jimhare Posted at 2016-10-11 15:58
Hi Donnie,

I always advocate filming in 4k even if you publish at 1080.  This is for two reasons. ...

Jim,
There is no setting for 60fps while shooting 4k its 24 or 30, so am i correct to say you shoot in 1080p at 60fps?  Unless you have a different setup than me. maybe the X5R. . . theres always something better out there that you find out you want after you shell out a couple grand already. so frustrating lol live and learn.
2016-10-12
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jimhare
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DroneDelegation Posted at 2016-10-13 10:45
Jim,
There is no setting for 60fps while shooting 4k its 24 or 30, so am i correct to say you sho ...

Hi Donnie,

That's correct, the image size contracts as you raise the FPS.  Shoot 4k when you can and accept a smaller frame when you need a faster frame rate.
2016-10-13
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jimhare
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werner.daehn@go Posted at 2016-10-12 21:14
I don't want to argue with the experts and 60fps is best for sure but...... for me this looks like a ...

You are absolutely right about the dangers of mixing frame rates but I don't think that's what's happening here.  If a frame rate is mixed you will see uneven stutters as you jump over skipped or doubled frames.

And I also don't believe this is a monitor hz issue as that was more an issue with older CRTs and TVs rather than modern computer LED/LCD, which technically don't have a refresh rate and will happily play 24, 25 or 30FPS footage with no artifacts.

I believe this was a case of too much movement for the frame rate, making the jump between frames too great which gives a stuttered look.
2016-10-13
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werner.daehn
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Well, he checked the framerates and they are the same. And monitor can be ruled out as we can see the same image quality issue with the youtube video. So it's a given I was heading into the wrong direction.
The point I don't like in your statement is that you rule out 4k/30fps as a setting for fast paced movements categorically. If that turns out to be correct, it would be a significant issue. Even more as the speed was not high at all. Is it a general problem?

And frankly, I find above test footage to be exactly what you said about double frames: Jumpy.

:confused:


2016-10-13
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DroneDelegation
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Can anyone find a solution to this, I have yet to figure out why it is happening.  It seems to only happen at night on auto settings. auto exp, auto focus.  Im stumped and frustrated. (frustrated mainly because i bought my inspire not long ago and here comes the inspire 2, not an upgradable inspire 1 like everyone told me)
     Watch the clip at the end its the most interesting because the jitteryness just seems to stop mid clip. just enough to f-up my shot and not notice untill I get home.

Dji inspire 1 pro zenmuse X5, samsung 32gb pro class 3 sd.
2016-11-17
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Bruno28
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have a look and you'll see that there is 2 frames that are identical. I have the same issue and found out that at 4k/2.7k 30fps there are doubling up of frames consecutively. While at 1080p 60fps, there is no doubling up and look natural. You would need to delete every second frame to make it look smooth. How to do that? no idea unless manually.
2017-3-8
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