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DJI communication on updates
1386 12 2015-2-4
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rod
First Officer

New Zealand
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We guys 'n'gals here solve a lot of problems for each other and identify a lot of issues for DJI.  But what about the phantom users that don't come onto forums?  How does DJI let them know about updates?  The website says nothing.

Here's an idea: {:3_41:} we are all registered and have the APP which has  a latest news section.  Could DJI not use this to let everyone know what updates/downdates should be made?  It seems to me that the latest debacle over v3.10 being downgraded to v3.08 is  pretty serious and they have not stated anywhere what the hell is going on.! At least if they posted instructions on the APP news page we could all find out.   I am still wondering how they are going to let us all know when they have fixed whatever problem it has.

Cheers!
Rod  
2015-2-4
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carlcself.outlo
lvl.2
Flight distance : 191483 ft
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United States
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I'm:@ waiting a week or two, then they will come out with a new update to correct this one [img]http://forum.dji.com/static/image/smiley/default/huffy.gif[/imp]
2015-2-4
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johnwarr.live
Captain
Flight distance : 6467 ft
United Kingdom
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Well as this is the official DJI forum, you would think that this would be the place to come if you are searching for answers, and at the start there were a few members from the DJI Team that would talk to us, but it seems they now only work 2 days a month and sometimes disappear for weeks on end, not good enough really.
Yes they have our email and us vision owners have the app, so no excuses for not telling us what is going on, or at least saying something about what is happening.
So DJI we are not expecting to know what the boss had for lunch each day, but just a short note about the important things like firmware updates and changes would be a step in the right direction...
2015-2-4
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PhantomHelp
lvl.4

United States
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They do post the release notes on their website. It's not direct contact, but better than nothing.

P2V:
http://download.dji-innovations. ... elease_Notes_en.pdf

P2V+:
http://download.dji-innovations. ... elease_Notes_en.pdf
2015-2-4
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HermosaDrones
Second Officer
Flight distance : 2501906 ft
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United States
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Will the next version be 3.06 or 3.12?
2015-2-4
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rod
First Officer

New Zealand
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PhantomHelp Posted at 2015-2-5 10:23
They do post the release notes on their website. It's not direct contact, but better than nothing.

...

I guess that's my point really: that notice is 5 days old and we know that there has been a problem from the launch. Anyone going to the site would not know of the issues.  

A brief note on the news page advising not to install would have worked for most people.  Oh well, at least we know they are working on it 'cos DJI-Autumn told us so.  Let's hope its not Autumn before we see it!.
Cheers!
Rod
2015-2-4
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bjr981s
First Officer
Flight distance : 117290 ft
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Australia
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rod Posted at 2015-2-5 11:09
I guess that's my point really: that notice is 5 days old and we know that there has been a proble ...

I think they are all flat out working at the moment.

I have been browsing the Inspire forum and they are in a world of hurt due to them withdrawing the IOS app and only having an Android solution.

People bought Inspires and iPads, Air's and Mini's  only to find when the Inspire turned up, IOS is no longer supported and the Android which is not included in their sales literature is the only game in town. They have been promising an IOS app any day now for some time. I assume the same developers are stretched doing this and solving our problems.

They are fighting wars on many fronts and have seriously dropped the ball.

My bird is grounded until this is all sorted out. The impact of reverting to previous versions of firmware is fraught with danger as you would need to get everything back to a stable base.

But I have been experimenting "on the ground" with the issues in the current 3.10 firmware and Vision App. Ive got a V3 so I think I have the more stable outcome from the updates than others.

I believe that I have discovered the root cause of the majority of fly aways. But I am not going to detail it here as I am tired of the comments by posters that either don't read what I post or don't understand what I am talking about.

I will take it up directly with DJI. It is a design flaw in the power system.  

I recommend to everyone to be very carful flying the Phantoms at the moment until DJI come up with a recognisable and verifiable fix to these issues.

Cheers
2015-2-4
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applekiller
lvl.4

Canada
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I would appreciate if you share your idea regarding fly always...  
2015-2-5
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bjr981s
First Officer
Flight distance : 117290 ft
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Australia
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applekiller Posted at 2015-2-6 11:21
I would appreciate if you share your idea regarding fly always...

At the moment it is still a Theory and further validation will be required.

I need to find a way to get the probes from my Digital Storage Oscilloscope into the Phantom and still be able to get good sat reception with them in place.

I have been able to produce what would have been a flyaway on the ground twice now, but the updated firmware and Vision app problems are getting in the way of testing.

I discovered this by accident when testing the Vision app crashes when the Gimbal transport lock is left in place or you forceable move the camera against the gimbal. Latest IOS vision App version with 3.10 firmware. My Phantom is a V3 P2V+

I noticed in testing that the app was displaying the 6 sats I can get on the bench in my computer room.

By pulsing the camera in the gimbal by hand and forcing the gimbal to fight the manual movements I suddenly got a "--" where the 6 sats was previously displayed. I know that "--" is not the default display of the app for the sats when disconnected from the phantom, as when you power the Vision App up it displays a "0"

So the vision app was receiving a number of sats data stream that it could not translate into a number. Some error in the Data Stream being send by the phantom.

Being an old software engineer as well as a electronics engineer. You often see this occurs when a negative number is sent to an app.

I don't know if the data stream is a single byte or double byte integer but I suspect its either sending FF or FFFF hex.

For the GPS to do this it would seem like the GPS was in a state of reboot.

Now I don't know what kind of type checking the Naza control module does with GPS input, so if its not very clever it could determine that the sat count is positive infinity.

The practical upshot of this would be that if this happened in flight the GPS coordinates would be thousands of miles away from Home point but it would also think it has a maximum number of sats locked.

This would immediately generate a RTH condition due to low battery power to get home.

The actions of interfering with the Camera Gimbal to make this happen is getting the gimbal to draw excess power in pulses from the power source.

So it could be noise or a low voltage situation on the GPS power / earth inputs that trigger a reboot of the GPS.

If this is in fact the case it would effect the GoPro gimbals the most, V+ next then Vs and the non vision Phantoms should not have this issue.

It would be advantageous to get some statistics on flyaways to see if the larger percentage of them relate to GoPro Gimbals then V+ etc.

So all it would take is some grit, dirt in the gimbal to cause it to draw additional power in pulses and force this outcome.

If this is the problem then it should be easily fixed with some decent quality Japanese capacitors in the power circuit rails.

Now this is all theory at the moment and I will not know if it is correct or not until I can see empirical evidence from the Oscilloscope.

So please don't beat me up on this yet.

I need to wait until we have the App and Firmware updates are released from DJI so I have a stable platform to test. The issues I am seeing may just relate to current firmware issues alone.


Cheers Brian
2015-2-5
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gnixon2015
First Officer

United States
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good starting point brian.  thanks for sharing.  this would explain what i have suggested before that there seems to be a disproportionate number of flyaway posts about v+ versus v-non-plus.   are you saying that the single axis gimbal on the non-plus wouldnt really cause this type of condition?  if so, do you think a 3rd party gimbal (like rotopixel) would then increase the odds making a non-plus closer to a plus regarding this potential situation?  thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.  appreciate it.
2015-2-5
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DJI-Autumn
First Officer

Hong Kong
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TenCentsWorth Posted at 2015-2-6 11:43
Mine has been grounded since the update prior to this one.

I have sent DJI emails outlining my co ...

Who did you send the mail to? You could send it to me.
I'd like to receive some information from you.
Yes our R&D is working on it. I believe it won't take too long.
2015-2-5
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applekiller
lvl.4

Canada
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Hi Brian,

Thanks for sharing!!  I'm also from a technical background and appreciate the details... I hope DJI will engage their resources to investigate your theory..  And for us it may give pause to flying if you suspect anything with the gimbal!!
2015-2-5
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bjr981s
First Officer
Flight distance : 117290 ft
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Thanks all for your support But again it is just a theory.

I have updated to the new IOS app and downgraded to the 3.08 Firmware. I have not been able to replicate the issue since.

So the 3.10 Firmware may well have either been the culprit or at least exacerbated an existing issue.

I will get an oscilloscope probe on the power rails and see if I can see any noise that may account for GPS issues. And stress the power system.

Its interesting that in my reading of a number of issues posted around the web that people have complained about the GoPro gimbal causing a loss of satellites when recording.

I have also had a look at mods that have shielded the GPS and even the cabling and they report a significant increase in the sat reception.

There may be both Power and RF noise effecting the operation of the GPS. It may actually be a combination of the 2 that triggers a flyaway. I will see what the Oscilloscope reveals.

Guy, et al,

Thanks for your support it nice to see others with similar backgrounds that could help DJI improve the product and customer relations.

I do a lot of corporate consulting and I know that many companies pay a fortune to polling companies to poll customers and get customer feedback.

This site is a golden opportunity for DJI to get this same information for free.

If only they would invest a little more in it.

Valuable information like the thread you posted above is scattered all over the forum and in no meaningful order.

The issues about firmware 3.10 were being posted by lots of members as soon as it was released but again it was scattered all over the forum in many non related threads.

I know that the forum administrators like Autumn can't spend all day searching around threads by name, and checking every post to get this information.

But it would make sense if the had a release feedback forum that was read only, and allocate some of the older (member time not age )  trustworthy members, moderator rights so they could move and rename threads into a release feedback forum.

They would then get the feedback instantly that most companies have to pay for, and have us and the moderators, doing the work for them for free.
Even getting us to impove the english in their manuals and software would be a big bonus for them.

To win a Formula 1 Championship, you need the fastest, best handling car, the best driver, the best pit crew and the best tyres and Information Systems.

You have to get it all right, the best fastest car will not do it for you alone.

DJI need to recognise that for them to win in this industry, not only do they need the best product. (And I think they do) but they also need to have the best customer support and the best quality operational systems (Updates). etc.

Sony tried having the best Video Tape product with Betamax and it was better than VHS. But in the end they lost it all.  

I know I'm preaching to the already converted.




Cheers





  
2015-2-6
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