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DJI Give us our control back
1515 12 2016-10-30
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jonty2
lvl.3

New Zealand
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DJI

From a large number of threads recently it appears as though there are at least one or two gremlins lurking in the firmware/software for the Mavic that is causing unintended or unexpected flight operations.  I'll admit many of these could be user error and even if not, it's not reasonable to expect perfect operations 100% of the time (just look at the glitches in smartphones). However, the one big difference between the flying Mavic and smartphones is that a glitch can have very serious consequences for a Mavic user (on both the wallet and potentially other people and property).  

Therefore, DJI, please don't treat all customers as idiots and try and create an automated bot that takes all responsibility away from users.  For those of us who are fully capable of flying the Mavic without the bells and whistles, we NEED to have functionality to take back control in the event the Mavic goes all Skynet on us.  We don't want GPS and Visions sensors or anything else the can corrupt basic flight (it appears that even ATTI did not allow a user full control).

DJI, please give us our control back and give those of us that can fly a fighting chance to avoid smashing $1000.  
2016-10-30
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leostark
lvl.3

Australia
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agreed, all these automated modes are nice and it's pretty likely that we'll be using them most of the time but I appreciate the option to revert to manual control when we want it. I think this is pretty much like automated modes in camera, with all the bells and whistles, any monkey with a DSLR becomes a photographer, the only issue with a monkey with a drone is that a fail in the automated modes can be catastrophic. No offense intended to anybody btw, I'm a monkey too
2016-10-30
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Mir
Second Officer
Flight distance : 1333839 ft
United States
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+1, never flown a quad in anything other than manual mode. Relying on all these sensors and electronics is worrisome. All it takes is for one or two to fail and down you go. Plus, it introduces a new breed of drone users, the type who don't care for the hobby and have our governments creating new laws against us.
2016-10-30
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DJI-Ken
DJI team
Flight distance : 1515312 ft
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Manual ATTI has already been requested, if it's possible to do and they do it great. But if they do not implement and it's an absolute must for you then the P4 is a really great alternative for you.
2016-10-30
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AusAir
lvl.3
Flight distance : 425049 ft
Australia
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I think DJI would be well advised to implement this. I can see no technical reason that it can't be added through a firmware revision. It would be a massive oversight on engineering's behalf if there is indeed some hardware limitation that prevents a firmware update providing full manual control.

The automation features are great under the right conditions and under certain circumstances but under emergency conditions, a 'glitch' may well see a Mavic lost, damaged or even worse, cause damage or injury even when the pilot was operating the device appropriately. This also has the potential to put pilots on the wrong side of the law. What's to stop an out of control Mavic entering controlled airspace, a no fly zone or  exceeding the 400' ceiling?  What would DJI do under these circumstances if the worst happened?

With the ability to switch to full manual mode, at least there is half a chance of saving the machine.
2016-10-30
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KulaHI
lvl.2

United States
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AusAir Posted at 2016-10-30 20:40
I think DJI would be well advised to implement this. I can see no technical reason that it can't be  ...

The amount of people having to exercise both DJI Care refresh due to damage from loss of control could be deciding factor.
2016-10-30
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AusAir
lvl.3
Flight distance : 425049 ft
Australia
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KulaHI Posted at 2016-10-31 15:28
The amount of people having to exercise both DJI Care refresh due to damage from loss of control c ...

I agree with the sentiment but it would be easy for DJI to have in their terms that care refresh doesn't apply operator error during a manual flight.

I would suggest they implement a staged approach to opening up features within the unit based on hours flown/training exercises successfully completed but that comes back to the very core of the issue here. These things would rely on automation. Automation appears to be the issue.

As I've mentioned in another thread, I believe anyone in control of a multirotor should be fully capable of controlling it any situation they're flying. The automation and safeguards should be considered assistance mechanisms only and not the primary method of flight control from the get go. They make multirotors more accessible to the masses but in doing so, also introduce them to segments of the market that previously wouldn't have purchased and really aren't interested in learning to fly properly.



2016-10-31
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Sploodge
Captain
Flight distance : 809350 ft
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United Kingdom
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But to be honest, the times you will ever need full manual in an emergency is rare as hell. I have flown the P4 ( and Inspire, P3, P2 and P ) and have had no reason other then "might as well" to use ATTI.

The Mavic does have ATTI and when the craft decides to enter that mode it flies just like in manual. IMO, having user selectable ATTI is not a requirement with the current technology. Yes it might "rub" some users the wrong way because they like to use it, but does not make it a bad decision from DJI.

"I think DJI would be well advised to implement this" - I think the only thing DJI is "well advised" to do it check the reasons for any crash/issue and decide on balance if ATTI would have ever resolved the issue. If not then there is no need to ATTI to be user selectable.

The whole point of these craft is to get people in the air to take photo/video. There is no need for the distractions of a feature then falls into the "ifs and buts" category. Like Ken says, if you really rally really need it, get a P4. It might well be the last of its breed with ATTI.
2016-10-31
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Maverikster
lvl.4
Flight distance : 24672 ft
Netherlands
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Fully agree, we need the ability to switch to manual ATTI at any time the pilot wants, period. Of course, once in manual ATTI mode, all coverage from DJI care etc is gone when something goes wrong.

Even is current technology is great and all the sensors and stuff make flying easy, there will be circumstances where it fails/has a mind of its own/... and even switching to some form of semi-manual ATTI mode when it appears to fail will not cover it (as the decision to switch is also done by the same technology and 'semi' just keep specific dependencies at play). There are currently a lot, and there will always be some, situations where auto-decisions should have been overridden by human common sense.
2016-10-31
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KulaHI
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United States
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AusAir Posted at 2016-10-30 22:37
I agree with the sentiment but it would be easy for DJI to have in their terms that care refresh d ...

I meant now when there is no manual switch to ATTI mode, where the majority of flyaways/crashes that can be proven not the result of pilot error but sensor/gps/bug could have been prevented if a manual switch to ATTI were available.  I've had several instances of GPS mode on NAZA going squirrelly and recovered by manually switching to ATTI.
2016-10-31
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Zatx
First Officer
Flight distance : 158166 ft
United States
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Those calling for manual ATTI mode, I'm guessing, are experienced drone pilots. The Mavic is not targeted to experienced drone pilots. This new craft is designed, developed, marketed, and sold primarily to inexperienced, novice, drone pilots with disposable income. DJI is seeking to be the "iPhone to the masses" of the drone/aerial footage industry. Manual ATTI while helpful to an experienced pilot, will be a detriment to the untrained masses, and thereby DJI's bottom line. People love the iPhone for its ease of use. They do not buy the iPhone because they are experienced information technology adherents that want to crack open the code and make adjustments to the software.

Personally, I think DJI's approach to the Mavic will benefit the industry and will lead to mainstream drone usage. The Mavic Pro is the equivalent of the efforts that Apple and Microsoft brought to the personal computer industry. Before making their first versions of the PC, computers were only for large corporations (IBM, etc.) and hobbyist building a kit in their garage. You experienced drone pilots need to understand that at this point, you are the hobbyist in your garage and we are all on the verge of a mass-effect drone revolution.

Sure there will be growing pains; expect news featuring "Inexperienced drone pilot injures seven at local football game! Click here for footage!" headlines and the resulting additional regulation by the FAA. But in the end, we will all have more polished, more professional, and more advanced electronics to enjoy.
2016-10-31
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bigglyguy
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Flight distance : 14196 ft
Malaysia
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Zatx Posted at 2016-10-31 20:08
Those calling for manual ATTI mode, I'm guessing, are experienced drone pilots. The Mavic is not tar ...

Yeah... except we're already hearing of multiple crashes and near misses where the craft has ignored the pilot's input.
2016-10-31
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Zatx
First Officer
Flight distance : 158166 ft
United States
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bigglyguy Posted at 2016-10-31 10:49
Yeah... except we're already hearing of multiple crashes and near misses where the craft has ignor ...

No, I get that. My point is that novices will make more mistakes by accidently going into ATTI mode, or overestimating their pilot abilities and crashing their drone, than the number of drones that will crash before they get a firmware fix to this current problem.

Even if every single drone shipped to date crashed at the hands of professionals, it would not equal the number of inexperienced pilots that will crash their Mavic in ATTI mode six months from now.
2016-10-31
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