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Hyperfocal distance of Mavic's lens+sensor?
12446 22 2016-11-23
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Frank I.
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Hi there,
what's the "hyperfocal distance" of Mavic's camera?  

(sorry if that has been answered already, couldn't find anything here)

Basically: what's the distance to focus on, so that everything at that distance will be "as sharp as it gets",
while everything further away than that distance (towards the horizon) will still be "reasonably" sharp?

(once you know the hyperfocal distance, and you know/tested that it's always like "four clicks down
from the infinity setting" in the manual focus dial in the app, that would help to focus manually
even in very bad light conditions.)

cheers, Frank
( still awaiting delivery... ;) )

2016-11-23
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DarkEnergy
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It's about 12m
2016-11-23
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Maverikster
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Has anyone seen some footage of users having focused on the hyperfocal distance (approx 12 mtr as per the above post)? I have yet to receive mine (Oct 7) but curious to know...
2016-11-26
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sanuk
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Australia
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Using this DOF calculator:
http://www.dofmaster.com/doftable.html

if you set the camera to a sensor size equal to the Mavic/Phantom's - ie a 1/2.3” type (4.7 x 6.3mm) CMOS sensor - like the Pentax Q:

( see https://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/ ... iew-Lofty-ambitions for some comparisons with same sized sensors)

and then set the focal length to the same as the Mavic's (ie 28mm 35mm equiv), and note the Mavic's f2.2 aperture when reading off the results, then according to the DOF calculator, the Mavic's hyperfocal distance may be ~ 70m.
2016-11-26
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Maverikster
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sanuk Posted at 2016-11-26 11:16
Using this DOF calculator:
http://www.dofmaster.com/doftable.html

I think there has been some discussion about the circle of confusion of the Mavic lens. I have seen some calculations setting it at 0.004mm, which leads to a hyperfocal distance of approx 12 mtr.
2016-11-26
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sanuk
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Maverikster Posted at 2016-11-26 22:19
I think there has been some discussion about the circle of confusion of the Mavic lens. I have see ...

Well, Mavic has a tiny 1/2.3” type (4.7 x 6.3mm) CMOS sensor, and hence a focal length multiplier of 5.5, a fixed f2.2 aperture, a 28mm focal length (35mm equiv), and a minimum focus distance of 50cm, according to DJI.

Somewhere there is simply an equation to give the correct number re hyperfocal. In the meantime, the DOFMaster calculator seems good.

Remembering that hyper-focal is the distance setting that produces the greatest depth of field (which will always be massive with tiny, tiny sensors), not simply the point at which the sharpest image is rendered.
2016-11-26
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Mikedefieslife
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According to the DOF calculator I used 28mm equiv at 2.2 would give a 12m hyper focal distance
2016-11-26
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sanuk
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Mikedefieslife Posted at 2016-11-27 07:11
According to the DOF calculator I used 28mm equiv at 2.2 would give a 12m hyper focal distance

What sensor size did you set your calculator to?
28mm @f2.2 on a medium format camera vs 28mm @f2.2 on a point-and-shoot (like the Mavic), for example, will give different results.
2016-11-26
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delsol95
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If you want everything in focus similar to the original Phantom 4 and 3, focus on an object 5 meters away and everything will be sharp, including objects closer than 5 meters and everything beyond 5 meters.  
2016-11-26
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Mikedefieslife
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sanuk Posted at 2016-11-26 21:12
What sensor size did you set your calculator to?
28mm @f2.2 on a medium format camera vs 28mm @f2. ...

35mm as the Mavic is listed as being 28mm (35mm equivalent).
2016-11-26
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sanuk
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delsol95 Posted at 2016-11-27 08:36
If you want everything in focus similar to the original Phantom 4 and 3, focus on an object 5 meters ...

The Phantom 4 has a different focal length (20mm, vs 28mm for the Mavic) and different fixed aperture (f2.8, vs f2.2 for the Mavic), so the results will be different with the P4 than the Mavic.

Assuming you could focus the P4 at all, for a subject distance of 5 m:

Depth of field
Near limit          4.25 m
Far limit          6.07 m
Total          1.82 m

In front of subject          0.75 m (41%)
Behind subject          1.07 m (59%)

Hyperfocal distance          28.3 m
Circle of confusion          0.005 mm

For the Mavic you get this at 5m:

Subject distance          5 m

Depth of field
Near limit          4.67 m
Far limit          5.38 m
Total          0.72 m

In front of subject          0.33 m (46%)
Behind subject          0.38 m (54%)

Hyperfocal distance          69.9 m
Circle of confusion          0.005 mm

So setting the focus point to 5m before flight would get you blur most of the time with the Mavic.
2016-11-26
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sanuk
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Mikedefieslife Posted at 2016-11-27 08:55
35mm as the Mavic is listed as being 28mm (35mm equivalent).

You have gotten mixed up between sensor size and focal length, I think.

Try your calculator again, and input a camera with a MUCH smaller sensor size than a camera with a full-frame - ie 24x36mm - sensor (which is what the 'equivalent' in your example is all about). Sensor size in P4 and Mavic is only 4.7 x 6.3 mm.

Mavic sensor size

Mavic sensor size

2016-11-26
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DarkEnergy
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sanuk Posted at 2016-11-26 16:00
The Phantom 4 has a different focal length (20mm, vs 28mm for the Mavic) and different fixed apert ...
[size=14.6667px]The Mavic camera focal lenght is not 28mm. [size=14.6667px]Just to settle the point, I've made an estimate of the focal length of Mavic's camera based on the size of the 1/2.3" detector and the claimed FOV of 78.8º.
[size=14.6667px]If the FOV corresponds to the diagonal of the detector, as is commonly quoted in photography, the true focal should be about 9.4mm. For a focal length of 9.4mm, f-ratio of 2.2 and CoC=0.004mm, the hyperfocal distance is about 10m.

Screen Shot 2016-10-04 at 11.46.29-1.png
2016-11-26
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sanuk
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Your DOF calculations certainly look about right for a tiny sensor camera. I'm sold.

Based on their calculations, DxO assigns the P4 sensor a 5.5X focal length multiplier (in terms of FF equivalence), for info.
2016-11-26
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delsol95
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sanuk Posted at 2016-11-26 23:00
The Phantom 4 has a different focal length (20mm, vs 28mm for the Mavic) and different fixed apert ...

My calculations are based on real world use of actually having and testing the Mavic in my own hands.
2016-11-26
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Mikedefieslife
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sanuk Posted at 2016-11-26 23:59
You have gotten mixed up between sensor size and focal length, I think.

Try your calculator again ...

Yes I know the sensor size is nowhere near 35mm, but we are using equivalents here because DJI haven't given us the actual figures. The hyperfocal distance should be the same when scaling up.

Just like if we took a micro 43 at 25mm f1 and compared it a full frame sensor with 50mm f2 the hyperfocal distance between the two should be the same. Or am I completely wrong?
2016-11-27
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DarkEnergy
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Mikedefieslife Posted at 2016-11-27 06:07
Yes I know the sensor size is nowhere near 35mm, but we are using equivalents here because DJI hav ...

On top of the focal length and f ratio you need to specify  the circle of confusion (CoC) that is generally not the same for sensors of different size being larger for larger sensors with equal number of pixels.
2016-11-27
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Telrin
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I would go with actual experience and results rather than a calculated number in this case as it does seem that something is limiting Depth of Field far more than the numbers would normally suggest, so I'd have to assume that the CoC is not all that good by current standards.

In theory you should be able to get 1m-infinity with the spec of the lens and sensor, but nobody seems to be seeing anything close to that.
2017-1-11
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fans7109b995
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I think the lens factor is 5.5x in 35mm equiv like the Inspire 1 and for 20mm on the I1 the real lens is 3.6mm you can see on the X3 camera, so for the 28mm equiv 35mm on the Mavic the real lens is 5.1. Finally the Hyper focal on the Mavic Pro is 2.9 m, and the Depth of field is from 1.47m to infinty.

Mavic-HyperFocal.jpg
2017-3-17
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DrEMHmrk2
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I would have guessed it was 15M given my observations (and observed frustrations) so I would have to agree that 12M based on the calculators seems about right.  While it's true that the mavic has a pretty amazingly large depth of field, this really works well for landscapes but I have yet to get focus the way I want in say a forest with a lot of variation between the foreground and background, it seems I am always pretty much focused on everything.
2017-3-17
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vinnyhofx
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delsol95 Posted at 2016-11-26 13:36
If you want everything in focus similar to the original Phantom 4 and 3, focus on an object 5 meters away and everything will be sharp, including objects closer than 5 meters and everything beyond 5 meters.

But how do you do that if you're shooting a landscape at 125m up in the air?
2017-6-15
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cabraswel
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sanuk Posted at 2016-11-26 15:59
You have gotten mixed up between sensor size and focal length, I think.

Try your calculator again, and input a camera with a MUCH smaller sensor size than a camera with a full-frame - ie 24x36mm - sensor (which is what the 'equivalent' in your example is all about). Sensor size in P4 and Mavic is only 4.7 x 6.3 mm.

Why are your typed out dimensions 4.7 X 6.3 but the chart with the images says 6.17 X 4.55?
2017-11-15
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cabraswel
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I am on the VFX Camera database using their focal length calculator to get a real focal length of 3.75 assuming the FOV is 78.8 with a sensor width of 6.3mm. I just keep finding different specifications for all of the Mavics camera specs. I texted customer support and they told me 3.6mm (APROX) with a sensor size of 4.7mm X 6.3mm.
2017-11-15
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