Please select Into the mobile phone version | Continue to access the computer ver.
Record in 2,7k or 4k, use JPG or DNG DECISION MADE !
1327 20 2016-12-12
Uploading and Loding Picture ...(0/1)
o(^-^)o
nils.heidorn
lvl.4
Flight distance : 183533 ft
Germany
Offline

Hi !
I made some effort to get a feeling if 4k delivers more Details then 2,7k.
If that would NOT be the case then i better go for 2,7k as the "per pixel" compression ratio is better.
I even had "compression sharpness pumping" in my maiden flight but i am  very picky aout it (60% grass, 30% trees, 10% cloudy sky, bad lighting).
I did NOT have compression sharpness pumping at 2,7k yet shooting similar clips.
(There is ALWAYS some due to I/P frames but if i dont notice them they are non of my business )

So i produced a simple test setup:
Siemensstern & USAF 1952 Printouts at 5m distance, Mavic centered  towards the targets, GOOD Lighting, Focus done in 2x Mag while doing  1080p streaming on a Retina 10" Android Tablet, triple checked that  focus wont get better, THEN left it unchanged.
Took 4second clips in 4k Cinematic@24FPS, 4k@30FPS, 2,7k@30FPS, 1080p@30FPS, 720p@30FPS, JPG, DNG.
Mavic set to -2,0,0 as DJI does a horrible sharpening job on the data otherwise IMO.

I interprete the results in the way that i will continue to shoot in  2,7k and that i will ALWAYS shoot JPG + DNG as DNG not only has its  "usual" advantages but also a very noticable Detail advantage.

Numbers:

Siemensstern ( Moiré radius / Total radius, smaller is better ):

4kCinematik@24 FPS0,42
4k@300,43
2,7k@300,43
1080p@300,61
720p@300,68
JPG0,36
DNG0,28


USAF 1951 (First number Reslution Group, -1 BETTER than -2, Second number subfield, bigger is better)

4kCinematik@24 FPS-1;1
4k@30-1;1
2,7k@30-1;1
1080p@30-2;2
720p@30-2;1
JPG-1;2
DNG-1;3

This was far away from scientific and it is valid for MY Mavic but  having seen quite some clips now i doubt that the variance is VERY big.

I wanted to imagine that 4k contains more Detail but it wasnt in the numbers.
I went into a little more (exhausting) Detail in my German post but  thats way to much for this place, send me a PM if interested.
And remember this was done for MYSELF to judge what to do, your decision probably variees

Greetings,
Nils

P.S. Todo list: DNG profile (actually part of my current job is writing a  DNG profiler) and ICC profiles for some standard lightings, dynamic  range measurement JPG vs. DNG, Multiexposure effeciency, ISO noise  profile, but at first: GETTING GOOD WEATHER TO FLY
2016-12-12
Use props
CC8877
lvl.4
Flight distance : 51093 ft
Italy
Offline

I have noticed some flickering in 4k@24fps. But this was without ND filter and using a 1/500 or 1/1000 shooting time.

So, I will try a 2.7K next but I would like to wait for my filters before making any decision. Another concern is my macmini doesn't work well with 4K...
2016-12-12
Use props
nils.heidorn
lvl.4
Flight distance : 183533 ft
Germany
Offline

CC8877 Posted at 2016-12-12 10:47
I have noticed some flickering in 4k@24fps. But this was without ND filter and using a 1/500 or 1/1000 shooting time.

So, I will try a 2.7K next but I would like to wait for my filters before making any decision. Another concern is my macmini doesn't work well with 4K...

Hi !
What kind of flickering ? I am talking of the compression "pumping" so some mostly dark / small Details are changing sharpness and/or showing artifacts in cycles of the I-Frames.
And: YES the 2.7k files are easier to manage on slightly outdated hardware as a small plus as well...

Greetings,

Nils
2016-12-12
Use props
CC8877
lvl.4
Flight distance : 51093 ft
Italy
Offline

Hi!

I will be in my launch pause in 2 hours. I will upload the video on my iPhone and then to dropbox or something similar where I see what I call flickering and let you know. So maybe you can give me some advice.

2016-12-12
Use props
nils.heidorn
lvl.4
Flight distance : 183533 ft
Germany
Offline

CC8877 Posted at 2016-12-12 11:26
Hi!

I will be in my launch pause in 2 hours. I will upload the video on my iPhone and then to dropbox or something similar where I see what I call flickering and let you know. So maybe you can give me some advice.

Will try :-)
2016-12-12
Use props
CC8877
lvl.4
Flight distance : 51093 ft
Italy
Offline


Hi.

You can download the mov here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ip6ib2ei78cu4ng/DJI_0542.MOV?dl=0

As you can see in the bottom hill at start there is some flashing, flickering I don't know how to name it.

2016-12-12
Use props
JtrJr-UAV Pilot
Captain
Flight distance : 4341 ft
United States
Offline

Nils,

Thanks for this information. I am not a professional, I am just a hobbyist so this information is very helpful to me. I will probably always produce in 1080p as I have no need for higher resolutions. Based on your information, I should set at 2.7k 30fps and then produce at 1080p. Is this a correct assumption based on your findings?

Thank you!

Jerry
2016-12-12
Use props
nils.heidorn
lvl.4
Flight distance : 183533 ft
Germany
Offline

Hi !
Yes, thats the bad compression.
If running out of bandwidth it decides to go rough on darker areas as its not so obvious.
Pretty much Detail to pack into those 60 MBit/s here.
It would've been much worse if there would've been green grass and / or rough water n the foreground.
Not enough bandwidth & crappy codec.
But this is not a bad case.

Nils
2016-12-12
Use props
CC8877
lvl.4
Flight distance : 51093 ft
Italy
Offline

nils.heidorn Posted at 2016-12-12 17:24
Hi !
Yes, thats the bad compression.
If running out of bandwidth it decides to go rough on darker areas as its not so obvious.

Thank you very much for answering. Now I think I will use a 2.7k. Also my mac mini can take advantage about that.

Cheers,
Claudio.
2016-12-12
Use props
HangTime81
lvl.1
United States
Offline

Nils,

Hello, and thank you so much for this comparison! I was in the process of looking at some footage for this reason, but I really appreciate your use of a chart to produce some hard numbers. I have heard there is some issue with the 1080p 60fps codec being optimized for FPV goggles and otherwise unusable.

Todd  
2016-12-12
Use props
CC8877
lvl.4
Flight distance : 51093 ft
Italy
Offline

Nils do you think this would be a nice buy fro me?

http://www.fcp.co/final-cut-pro/ ... t-plugin-de-flicker
2016-12-12
Use props
nils.heidorn
lvl.4
Flight distance : 183533 ft
Germany
Offline

JtrJr-UAV Pilot Posted at 2016-12-12 16:30
Nils,

Thanks for this information. I am not a professional, I am just a hobbyist so this information is very helpful to me. I will probably always produce in 1080p as I have no need for higher resolutions. Based on your information, I should set at 2.7k 30fps and then produce at 1080p. Is this a correct assumption based on your findings?

Yup !
2.7k gos to the archive, 1080p to the customer or to your beloved ones...

Nils
2016-12-12
Use props
nils.heidorn
lvl.4
Flight distance : 183533 ft
Germany
Offline

HangTime81 Posted at 2016-12-12 18:29
Nils,

Hello, and thank you so much for this comparison! I was in the process of looking at some footage for this reason, but I really appreciate your use of a chart to produce some hard numbers. I have heard there is some issue with the 1080p 60fps codec being optimized for FPV goggles and otherwise unusable.

Yes, right now 1080p60 is not realy usable and 95% it will stay this way if DJI cannot make a breakthrough.
Maybe they even dont want that, selling point for the larger drones (of course just one amongst others).

There is a way of producing a very smooth 60 FPS video (no matter if 1080p, 2.7k or 4k) that i outlined here:

http://forum.dji.com/forum.php?m ... &fromuid=426911

Its just a workaround but in many cases it produces the desired output.

Greetings,

Nils
2016-12-12
Use props
nils.heidorn
lvl.4
Flight distance : 183533 ft
Germany
Offline

CC8877 Posted at 2016-12-12 18:36
Nils do you think this would be a nice buy fro me?

http://www.fcp.co/final-cut-pro/articles/1810-remove-flicker-from-video-in-final-cut-pro-x-with-the-new-low-cost-plugin-de-flicker

Hi !
Actually no thats against prop flicker which wasnt the Problem in your video.
You can work on your video to get rid of the "dark detail compression pumping" but it will invariably mush that part a bit. I'd leave it as it is right now. In other circumstances i might have overlooked it.

Greetings,

Nils
2016-12-12
Use props
JtrJr-UAV Pilot
Captain
Flight distance : 4341 ft
United States
Offline

nils.heidorn Posted at 2016-12-12 11:45
Yup !
2.7k gos to the archive, 1080p to the customer or to your beloved ones...

Thanks again, Nils!

Jerry
2016-12-12
Use props
CC8877
lvl.4
Flight distance : 51093 ft
Italy
Offline

nils.heidorn Posted at 2016-12-12 18:52
Hi !
Actually no thats against prop flicker which wasnt the Problem in your video.
You can work on your video to get rid of the "dark detail compression pumping" but it will invariably mush that part a bit. I'd leave it as it is right now. In other circumstances i might have overlooked it.

Hi

just to clarify: it is not only used to remove prop but also for removing flickering:

http://www.yourseedmedia.com/seed-de-flicker

But for sure on my mac mini can take hours in 4k.

Cheers,
Claudio.
2016-12-12
Use props
nils.heidorn
lvl.4
Flight distance : 183533 ft
Germany
Offline

CC8877 Posted at 2016-12-12 19:43
Hi

just to clarify: it is not only used to remove prop but also for removing flickering:

Hi again Claudio, yes, it removes the image of the props and also the lighting change induced by the props but not the compression pumping...

Greetings,

Nils
2016-12-12
Use props
CC8877
lvl.4
Flight distance : 51093 ft
Italy
Offline

Thank you very much Nils. Nice to meet you an experienced user as you are. Thanks!!!
2016-12-12
Use props
fansae63899d
lvl.2

United States
Offline

Could you share the discussion in your (German?) home forum please?
2016-12-12
Use props
nils.heidorn
lvl.4
Flight distance : 183533 ft
Germany
Offline

fansae63899d Posted at 2016-12-12 20:00
Could you share the discussion in your (German?) home forum please?

Hi !
Of course, some more Details there but feel free to ask if i can clear up something else:

http://www.drohnen-forum.de/inde ... stern-und-USAF1951/

Nils
2016-12-12
Use props
nils.heidorn
lvl.4
Flight distance : 183533 ft
Germany
Offline

By the way when i took some images to look at the sharpness (first using tres / branches) it came to my attention that the Mavics JPG are really bad compared to DNG. While its no surprise that DNG contain more dynamic range its a shame how the current processing forces way too much denoising on the image.
If interested look here:

http://forum.dji.com/forum.php?m ... mp;extra=#pid603611

Nils
2016-12-12
Use props
Advanced
You need to log in before you can reply Login | Register now

Credit Rules