DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-12-22 06:08
A filter will help with photos as well as video.

What filter should I look after? Are those made of plastic like the filter that comes with P4P as standard?

I shot aerials since 2010, with cheap cameras, with expensive cameras & lenses...i dont wont use a filter...but such a strong effect I have still seen on no camera or lens all the time. In the 360 ​​degree panoramafotography is such a lens flare optically even desired, or I build this later. If the original images but already look like, there would be error in the assembly picture. An elaborate rework in Photoshop would be necessary. For some, it may be a cool effect, for me, the P4P is simply not to use.

This is a 360° picture from my hexa last year, shot with rx100. lensflare later integrated (show it on pc, flash needed):
http://vonoben.tv/panos/pano_breitenloh_final_okt2015/

FotoSander Posted at 2016-12-21 22:43
What filter should I look after? Are those made of plastic like the filter that comes with P4P as standard?

Here is the accessories page with the filters.
http://store.dji.com/category/phantom-4-accessories

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-12-22 22:58
Here is the accessories page with the filters.
http://store.dji.com/category/phantom-4-accessories

Thanks for the link.  I'm always concerned about what works with the 4P+ versus what does not.  4P filters do not but the 4P blades do.  Do they have plans to clarify the online marketing/link above in the future.

BeamMeUpScotty Posted at 2016-12-22 09:21
Thanks for the link.  I'm always concerned about what works with the 4P+ versus what does not.  4P filters do not but the 4P blades do.  Do they have plans to clarify the online marketing/link above in the future.

I don't really understand your question, are you saying you've tried the P4P filters and they don't work for you but P4P blades do?

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-12-23 00:31
I don't really understand your question, are you saying you've tried the P4P filters and they don't work for you but P4P blades do?

So...the P4 filters do not work on the P4P....right.  Do the P4 rotor blades work on the P4P as an accessory or should I wait for the P4P blades too?  Just one example.  Would be nice to have accessories listed as compatible with P4 or P4P when appropriate.  Does that make sense?  Just a suggestion...we can always figure it out in the form if we have to.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-12-21 18:39
I agree with Jeff, try a filter.

Ken,

Which type of filter are you suggesting (serious question).  Almost every photo discussion on Lens Flare talks to the fact that a filter can exaggerate and negatively impact lens flare even further (anti-reflection coatings or not).  I also agree that it can look pretty cool if you get the flare just right.  :-)  The only thing I can thing of would be some form of graduated neutral density, but I'm not aware of any for the Phantom 3 that are made of plastic (which could also degrade image).  

I still think the "compromise" solution is to either expose (as much as possible for the sun and then bring up what will be the shadows in post processing OR aim for something in the middle between the sun and the ground by touch screening the manual exposure and hope to bring down highlights and bring up shadows.  Bottom line there is not great solution for flare.  With a regular camera you can hold your hand over the top of the lens hood (extend it out a bit and try not to get it in frame) but we can't do that with the AC up there.  :-)  Hmmm  that does bring up an idea though to try...  :-)  DIY to make after the holidays!  :-)

BeamMeUpScotty Posted at 2016-12-22 09:46
So...the P4 filters do not work on the P4P....right.  Do the P4 rotor blades work on the P4P as an accessory or should I wait for the P4P blades too?  Just one example.  Would be nice to have accessories listed as compatible with P4 or P4P when appropriate.  Does that make sense?  Just a suggestion...we can always figure it out in the form if we have to.

The link I gave you is for the P4P, and yes the P4 filters will not work on the P4P but the props/batteries are interchangeable.
If the same product is listed on the P4 as the P4P page, then they are compatible.

ImagesByJAS Posted at 2016-12-22 09:51
Ken,

Which type of filter are you suggesting (serious question).  Almost every photo discussion on Lens Flare talks to the fact that a filter can exaggerate and negatively impact lens flare even further (anti-reflection coatings or not).  I also agree that it can look pretty cool if you get the flare just right.  :-)  The only thing I can thing of would be some form of graduated neutral density, but I'm not aware of any for the Phantom 3 that are made of plastic (which could also degrade image).  

I'm not a photographer, you would have to do research or test different filters to see what works best your your situation.

ImagesByJAS Posted at 2016-12-22 09:51
Ken,

Which type of filter are you suggesting (serious question).  Almost every photo discussion on Lens Flare talks to the fact that a filter can exaggerate and negatively impact lens flare even further (anti-reflection coatings or not).  I also agree that it can look pretty cool if you get the flare just right.  :-)  The only thing I can thing of would be some form of graduated neutral density, but I'm not aware of any for the Phantom 3 that are made of plastic (which could also degrade image).  

You would have to experiment with different filters.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-12-23 01:31
The link I gave you is for the P4P, and yes the P4 filters will not work on the P4P but the props/batteries are interchangeable.
If the same product is listed on the P4 as the P4P page, then they are compatible.

Thanks for letting "me" know that handy rule!

BeamMeUpScotty Posted at 2016-12-22 11:45
Thanks for letting "me" know that handy rule!

No problem.

ImagesByJAS Posted at 2016-12-23 03:51
Ken,

Which type of filter are you suggesting (serious question).  Almost every photo discussion on Lens Flare talks to the fact that a filter can exaggerate and negatively impact lens flare even further (anti-reflection coatings or not).  I also agree that it can look pretty cool if you get the flare just right.  :-)  The only thing I can thing of would be some form of graduated neutral density, but I'm not aware of any for the Phantom 3 that are made of plastic (which could also degrade image).  

'With a regular camera you can hold your hand over the top of the lens hood (extend it out a bit and try not to get it in frame) but we can't do that with the AC up there.  :-)  Hmmm  that does bring up an idea though to try...  :-)  DIY to make after the holidays!  :-)'

If the sun is actually in shot, as it is in all the examples posted here, then a lens hood is no use whatsoever, it won't solve anything.

There is an excellent Series on the Smithsonian Channel called Aerial America  One hour episodes about different regions, areas, cities etc.   In the rare moment that there is a hint of sun in their shot, there is flare.   I find it educational for interesting camera angles and movement.

http://www.smithsonianchannel.com/shows/aerial-america/701

Matthias80 Posted at 2016-12-22 17:16
I shot aerials since 2010, with cheap cameras, with expensive cameras & lenses...i dont wont use a filter...but such a strong effect I have still seen on no camera or lens all the time. In the 360 ​​degree panoramafotography is such a lens flare optically even desired, or I build this later. If the original images but already look like, there would be error in the assembly picture. An elaborate rework in Photoshop would be necessary. For some, it may be a cool effect, for me, the P4P is simply not to use.

This is a 360° picture from my hexa last year, shot with rx100. lensflare later integrated (show it on pc, flash needed):

WOW... That is a really stunning 360! Absolutely love it and thanks for sharing.
Dallas

Geebax Posted at 2016-12-22 17:51
'With a regular camera you can hold your hand over the top of the lens hood (extend it out a bit and try not to get it in frame) but we can't do that with the AC up there.  :-)  Hmmm  that does bring up an idea though to try...  :-)  DIY to make after the holidays!  :-)'

If the sun is actually in shot, as it is in all the examples posted here, then a lens hood is no use whatsoever, it won't solve anything.

Geebax..

Don't disagree, which is why I said in an earlier reply in the thread that the sun has to be significantly lower to have any chance at all of not getting lens flare.  I referenced the "hand" technique as something done in regular photography..

DJI...news? any results of my pictures from dropbox?

Each lens has aperture effects, one more the other less - as is the lens composition or the quality of the lenses themselves. Added to this, of course, the sun, angle of view, etc. Meanwhile, some videos of the P4P are on the net. As I see so far, this strong scattering effect is the same everywhere, so looks as if it is really a "feature". :-(

Merry xmas to all.

Matthias80 Posted at 2016-12-24 00:48
DJI...news? any results of my pictures from dropbox?

Each lens has aperture effects, one more the other less - as is the lens composition or the quality of the lenses themselves. Added to this, of course, the sun, angle of view, etc. Meanwhile, some videos of the P4P are on the net. As I see so far, this strong scattering effect is the same everywhere, so looks as if it is really a "feature". :-(

Hi,

we have the same problem here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4eidgyhmg66yagu/FLARE.png?dl=0

is this normal?

Thanks in advance.

Nikadafilm Posted at 2016-12-29 15:38
Hi,

we have the same problem here:

Probably, that is just very poor picture composition.

Can report, I have the same issue in Australia.

I believe they probably cheaped out with the lens in this camera. Its probably made from plastic and not glass, which is sad, when you spend a lot of money on a product.

This problem lies within the lens, and adding a filter will only make it worse.

marctronixx Posted at 2016-12-19 09:10
The lenses are plastic, not glass. This looks typical of plastic lenses in my opinion.

Spot on!
This ONLY due to the fact this is a cheap plastic lens, just get over it.

The only thing that could reduce the glare and make the sun look nicer and more even, is to stop down the aperture to 11.
The smaller the aperture, the less prone the light bleeding gets.

I'm more convinced it is back-scatter/reflections from the sensor - the microlens array on top of many recent sensors can form a grid type reflection, the colouration a result of filters/coatings in the optical path. Astrophotographers have been seeing similar issues  with DSLR cameras - there is an interesting thread at http://www.cloudynights.com/topi ... rtifact-w-canon-6d/ for those who are interested!

G Davidson Posted at 2016-12-30 03:47
I'm more convinced it is back-scatter/reflections from the sensor - the microlens array on top of many recent sensors can form a grid type reflection, the colouration a result of filters/coatings in the optical path. Astrophotographers have been seeing similar issues  with DSLR cameras - there is an interesting thread at http://www.cloudynights.com/topi ... rtifact-w-canon-6d/ for those who are interested!

This has nothing to do with this particular issue, its simply cause plastic has a very poor optical quality, for obvious reasons.
Its normal with these cheap type of lenses.

CineView Media Posted at 2016-12-30 03:56
This has nothing to do with this particular issue, its simply cause plastic has a very poor optical quality, for obvious reasons.
Its normal with these cheap type of lenses.

I can't find any documentation to confirm that plastic lenses will cause grid type lens flare but if you can point me to any links, I'm happy to broaden my knowledge.

Has it been confirmed that the P4 Pro's lenses are plastic?

Guys, what you are seeing is a sensor reflection, probably due to the lens design. It is prevalent on many versions of the iPhone too in direct lens-facing light. This sort of thing happens even with some DSLR cameras. You're shooting into the sun, that light can reflect off of the sensor and bounce back to the lens and then back to the sensor.  The only solution is to accept it, or not shoot directly into the sun. You can also play around with the aperture to reduce it.

For me, the topic is closed - 10 days and no reaction from DJI.
My phantom 4 pro go back two days ago to the dealer, want my money back. First reviews after (photograph Stefan Forster and so on...) the P4P comes with a cam, which plays everything on the wall, even DJI's X5 in picture quality. I had not to great expactations, but i thought Sony rx100 level is there. At least my expectation was disappointed.

Sorry DJI, perhaps you could establish the phantom series from toy to a (semi)pro-tool with the phantom 5 series.

lots of cats on here with their opinions. this is the same scatter you see on camera phones.  that streaky kind of flare. its not a sensor issue. glass lens flares are more different than this. even if these are glass, they don't have the proper coating to disperse flares as more conventional glass does for DSLR, video, still cameras.
i have seen sensors reflections (those do exist) and thery are much diferet loking than this.
get an iphone and get one of the add on lens attachments and throw some light into it. you will get a different look than what you would get from a plastic lens.look at my avatar. I work around LONG LENSES daily, on Technocranes, conventional Jibs, Steadicam, and ped/hard mount. 25 plus years experience in working with anamorphic (panavision), G series lenses and many other vintage lines. This is how I qualify my opinion.

marctronixx Posted at 2016-12-30 13:51
lots of cats on here with their opinions. this is the same scatter you see on camera phones.  that streaky kind of flare. its not a sensor issue. glass lens flares are more different than this. even if these are glass, they don't have the proper coating to disperse flares as more conventional glass does for DSLR, video, fill cameras.
i have seen sensors reflections (those do exist) and thery are much diferet loking than this.
get an iphone and get one of the add on lens attachments and throw some light into it. you will get a different look than what you would get from a plastic lens.look at my avatar. I work around LONG LENSES daily, on Technocranes, conventional Jibs, Steadicam, and ped/hard mount. 25 plus years experience in working with anamorphic (panavision), G series lenses and many other vintage lines. This is how I qualify my opinion.

Exactly, and if you add a filter to it, youll add just another layer of glare source.
Coating is different from every lens, and none is perfect.
Glass and plastic elements can also be combined.

True true true true!

point here is learn the limitation of your gear and work around them. I feel this sUAV can grab awesome footage but its not going to react the same way as a tamron, canikon, sony, panavision, etc lens. they are all different and handle lens flares in their own way,. just learn the lenses limitations and you will be fine..

best of the new year to all!

Yea mate, also small apertures would be your best friend here.

Happy new year to you too

I found fairly significant lens flare off water reflection. This camera really needs the sun behind it more so than other camera I have used, including my P3P.
It's possible to work with, but I believe that more care in the lens design is called for. Also I notice that the white casing colour extends all the way into the lens barrel. In my opinion, that section should be non-reflective black.
ISO 100, F5.6, S200.

There are two phenomena you are seeing in these images, flare and red dot flare.  Flare will always be a problem when you shoot into the sun, even on a Canon 1dx 11 with L series lenses, some lenses are better than others at handling it depending on design and the nature of the lens coatings.  It is not surprising that the cheap lenses on drones suffer badly.  The red dot flare is caused by reflections from the sensor onto the back side of the lens elements and then back onto the sensor, you tend to get it on cameras where the lens has a very short barrel such as on camera phones and in this case drones and typically shows up as a grid pattern, the photo posted by the OP is absolutely typical of this.  Using a wide aperture will help with red dot flare and indeed may eliminate it all together.  As far as "regular" flare is concerned there is not much you can do about it and I doubt a ND filter will help, the only real way to stop it is to prevent the direct sunlight hiting the front element of the lens, the fact that the lens is not inset, like it would be on most camera lenses, does not help.

p.s it is is perfectly acceptable photographic technique to shoot "high key" or "Silhouette" into the sun, some great images can be taken this way.
Post processing can help of course but even so there is a limit.

Do you think it would help removing the factory installed filter and fly with no protection in these situations?

BKendrew Posted at 2017-1-3 16:46
Do you think it would help removing the factory installed filter and fly with no protection in these situations?

Not a bit. but you'd soon have bugs and dirt on your front lens element.
But not taking photos staring at the sun would help 100% and your photos would be lots better too.

Just removed the factory filter and coloured in all the cream colour inside the filter, as well as the cream coloured rim externally, with a black marker.  This item should be matt black as it creates some internal reflection.  Probably won't make a major difference, but why not try as the flare is not really acceptable for a lot of photographic work.  

I also made a small slip over lens hood from heavy black matt paper - works well in getting sun strike off the objective lens a little more

People are expecting too much, even a 1dx II with a 16-35 II L will exhibit flare. If you use f2.8 you will have less flare but also no sun stars effect (you get a blownout ball), something I really like the sun star in some photos. The good news is that the p4p at f11 produces already a bit of sun star effects, I wish it had a f16 that is the sweet spot for sun star.

As comparison 1dx II 16-35 II L at F16:


Same location, 1h later, p4p at F11:


As you can see the sun star is much better with the 1dx II due to the F16, but it also produce tons of flare. The lens alone costs more than the p4p.....
The only thing that I wish is that the p4p would produce less magenta spots... but you can see magenta spots also on the 1dx photo.

I own a Canon 5D MKIII and a 7D MKii, you almost always get flare from the Sun when you point your camera towards it, cant see the Pro 4 being any different

Irishbogman Posted at 2017-1-4 16:58
I own a Canon 5D MKIII and a 7D MKii, you almost always get flare from the Sun when you point your camera towards it, cant see the Pro 4 being any different

This what I have been trying to tell people, but they seem to know better.

thats no question of know better - or not. Or a question of the cam, lens.
I own Canons, also Eos 5D MK2 to...bevore the Sony came out - but that´s an other story. Actually i use a a6000 and A7s. Lens flares with different lenses also there, thats not the point.
But never seen such extreme lens flares with scatterede red dots against the sun the P4P has, also not with an iphone or Phantoms 2-4.

Why its so strong on P4P?! And what can we do about it?

Matthias80 Posted at 2017-1-6 14:25
thats no question of know better - or not. Or a question of the cam, lens.
I own Canons, also Eos 5D MK2 to...bevore the Sony came out - but that´s an other story. Actually i own(or use) a a6000 and A7s. Lens flares with different lenses also there, thats not the point.
But never seen such extreme lens flares with scatterede red dots against the sun the P4P has, also not with an iphone or Phantoms 2-4.

There is nothing you can do about it. You cannot compare a phone camera with the camera on the P4, phone cameras have extremely simple lenses with very short lens to sensor spacing. Even the P2 and P3 had simple lenses. But the P4 is closer to a DSLR in that it uses a more complex lens, larger physical sensor and the spacing between the rear of the lens and the sensor allows reflections off the sensor back onto the rear lens element.