Hi all

Has anyone experimented with how slow you can go while retaining sharpness in photos? Do any conditions such as wind make a big difference?
Thanks, Rob

Hey Rob,

That is a loaded question.   If the Aircraft is sitting on a table with motors off  and taking a photo of something that is not moving like a bowl of fruit then, there is no lower limit.   However if it sitting on a table and taking a photo where the subject has  significance movement (Plant swaying in the breeze) then there would be blur even at a reasonable shutter speed.   The still photo rule of thumb to avoid blur in a hand held photo of a non moving subject. is to choose a shutter speed that is the reciprocal of 2 times the 35mm focal length of the lens being used.  The Phantom 4 has 20mm {equivalent) lens so one may assume that 1/40 shutter speed is at the lower end.  So this can imply that if the phantom is stationary (hovering) and there is little movement or the Phantom is far enough away from the subject then 1/40 may suffice. To add to this, it is widely recommended that video should be shot  with a shutter speed of the reciprocal of  2 times frame rate.  As an example 1/60 of a second is recommended for shooting at 30 frames per second.   this is to INSURE that there is a bit of natural motion blur in your video.       As with everything, I recommend that you go out a shoot photos using a wide range of shutter speeds and note the difference.  For me, I will hyave my Phanto to shoot stills at a high enough shutter speed to insure a crisp still photo, and I will shoot video with a shutter speed that is low enough to look natural. (1/60 @ 30FPS)   (1/120 @ 60FPS) etc.

There's also another point to consider with regards to shutter speeds using the rolling shutter as in the P4 and Mavic, as well as the new X5S camera too.

With the 12 megapixel P4 and its rolling shutter, even if you select 1/8000 second to freeze action, the duration of all those 1/8000 sec. pixels recording takes about 1/12 second to complete from the very first one to the last one during the top-to-bottom scan.  So anything moving in 1/12 second will show some degree of movement in the photo.  That's how you get the bent distortion in props or anything with a rolling shutter.  It's more like a dual-speed shutter the way it is operating.

A mechanical is better for that fast moving stuff to prevent the distortion of the scan by the rolling shutter, but it comes with an extra price to do so.  If the rolling shutter's scan time could be completed in 1/8000 sec. it would really take a mega-fast processing and storage system to do so.

Thanks samuraiz.  I'm a professional photographer and while your answer is very thorough, it's not really what I was hoping to learn.

Much more simply put, if I was flying in a low light twilight zone (say at 30metres), what would people find the slowest shutter speed they'd consider safe that didn't result in any motion blur (camera movement, NOT subject movement) in photographs?  I'm actually using the P4P, so rolling shutter isn't the issue either.

Thanks
Rob

Rob8888 Posted at 2016-12-22 14:11
Thanks samuraiz.  I'm a professional photographer and while your answer is very thorough, it's not really what I was hoping to learn.

Much more simply put, if I was flying in a low light twilight zone (say at 30metres), what would people find the slowest shutter speed they'd consider safe that didn't result in any motion blur (camera movement, NOT subject movement) in photographs?  I'm actually using the P4P, so rolling shutter isn't the issue either.

It depends on lots of factors.  I've had good exposures at 2 seconds with a P3.
With a still night the P4pro might do even better.
Just have to try it and see.

Thanks for that, the kind of applied guidance I was after.  I've been staying up around 1/60th minimum, but will try lower when I get the chance.  Keen to hear from others.

Rob,

Since you mentioned that you are a photographer, then use the same guidelines you would use for a handheld shot with a 20mm (35mm equivalent) lens  I have gotten good images @ 1/30 but I was at 200'   As with most things, experimenting will provide you with the acceptable shutter speeds for  various conditions.  Wind, subject movement.   Some folks have done some significantly long exposure  when there was no subject movement.  ie   high above a lighted city, sun set, sun rise.  

Hi Rob, I took about 80 shots one night at the full 8 seconds limit of the P3P emptying 2 batteries. There was very light wind and my height was about 120m AGL with the camera pointed straight down.
I'd say about 1/3 of the shots were acceptable from a camera movement perspective. ISO noise at 1600 however, was crap.
Keen to see how my new P4P goes.

Good luck!

I should add that the camera movement you get on the Phantom is different to the camera shake your used to dealing with with hand held camera. The Phantoms can drift a little this way and that, while maintaining a very steady camera position. So there is little axis movement but some positional movement. Therefore distance to the subject becomes important (camera drift disappears as subject distance increases) and wind becomes very important since the movements of the gimbal will not exactly offset any axis rotation of the camera as the aircraft adjusts its attitude to compensate for wind.
Hope that made sense. Cheers.

Thanks guys.  I don't accept using handheld movement rule are a good guide.  The vibration, drifting and gimbal dampening is so different.  I haven't been able to do proper trials yet, so I'm after some experiences to frame up an operating envelope in the interim.

Noise above 100iso goes downhill fast, so I'm trying to understand IQ constraints (esp acceptable lowest shutter speeds) using 100iso from others experiences.

Many thanks

Rob8888 Posted at 2016-12-31 20:10
Thanks guys.  I don't accept using handheld movement rule are a good guide.  The vibration, drifting and gimbal dampening is so different.  I haven't been able to do proper trials yet, so I'm after some experiences to frame up an operating envelope in the interim.

Noise above 100iso goes downhill fast, so I'm trying to understand IQ constraints (esp acceptable lowest shutter speeds) using 100iso from others experiences.

Rob, not sure what are planning but I have been experimenting with slow shutter night photography.  Still refining technique and post processing but I would certainly say that usable images can be taken at 2 seconds so long as wind speed is low. Here is a timelapse practice 2 second exposures iso 100, not perfect but I know I can process better.

birdingbilly Posted at 2017-1-1 02:53
Rob, not sure what are planning but I have been experimenting with slow shutter night photography.  Still refining technique and post processing but I would certainly say that usable images can be taken at 2 seconds so long as wind speed is low. Here is a timelapse practice 2 second exposures iso 100, not perfect but I know I can process better.

Night Timelapse

Thanks for that. Interesting. I'm a still photog so good sharp frames are my goal. The P4P is just on the lower rung of acceptable quality for what I do, so understanding limitations regarding noise and movement are vital.  Thanks