solentlife Posted at 2016-12-24 14:00
Even Hobby King Product Support gives better answers than DJI !

People complain about HK Customer Service - but too often they are talking to wrong service or do not explain themselves well. Technical Services or as in HK - Product Support should give reasonable replies that make information clear. Technical is technical.

Been through that too. Even Gearbest has a few good folks in their employ. But personally, I have to complement DJI Support. They handled my case quickly and in the end I came out smelling like a rose.

After Christmas there will be a lot more questioneers flooding the forums looking for answers. I'd just go blank, send 'em all off to DJI Supp and let the noobies do the dirty work of getting changes made. Your crusade may yet be realized.
Merry merry.

Oh I know the Xnas rush will happen - and multi-rotors being the 'in' thing at moment will have its fair share.

I can remember when I was SMAE rep - we would have endless discussions back in the 80's how to get new people into modeling. With today's auto-leveling, gyro stabilized flight controllers etc. - its now 'toy-store' revolution.

Personally I think watching the mess and helping people on the flight line understand their 'toys' better - makes me even more determined to get good info. Many of the new people initially just want to do same as the sales video, but it doesn't take long before they want to do more and know why, where, what and how. Old fogies like me - we try to help.

If some don't want to know - fine .... but it doesn't mean everyone is like that.

I know plenty who started with a WLToys model and then later moved on to serious RC flying. Two in particular in my area are now very good 3D pilots with big gasoline models.

Finally the information I may get finally together could make a safer flight system, may help someone avoid expensive mistake. At least they will have more info at hand.

Nigel

I'm ready for the early party, happy hour and ensuing bash. Hahaha
Two bottles of Lambs Rum and one of Russian Vodka, in the freezer. Ah, with Spirytus on the shopping list. ;-)
For medicinal purposes only. Haha

RedHotPoker

Hello,
Did you ever get this issue resolved? Im having a similar issue right now and its rather frustrating. I have a brand new phantom (just took it out of the box for the 1st time yesterday). I noticed the battery imbalance when I conducted the first pre-flight check. Cell 1 was lower than the other 3 by .07volts. I discharged and charged the battery 4 times since then (even tried the fully discharge method listed in the manual) but the imbalance worsened. The imbalance has been as high as .48 V from cell 1 when compared to any of the other 3. The app alerted me that there was an issue with the battery and I should contact Dji support, so I did. The only solution DJI support is willing to give me is to send the battery to them and wait for a replacement after it has been inspected. That means at least 2 weeks without a battery and incurred shipping cost for a product that was purchased less than a week ago and only used for the 1st time yesterday. I was also told to call the customer support telephone number only to get a message stating they are currently experiencing technical difficulties at the moment. I'm really starting to have buyers remorse as I purchased 3 of these phantoms in total (2 as gifts and one for me). I dont know what to expect with the other 2 phantoms.

Faze Posted at 2016-12-26 19:53
Hello,
Did you ever get this issue resolved? Im having a similar issue right now and its rather frustrating. I have a brand new phantom (just took it out of the box for the 1st time yesterday). I noticed the battery imbalance when I conducted the first pre-flight check. Cell 1 was lower than the other 3 by .7volts. I discharged and charged the battery 4 times since then (even tried the fully discharge method listed in the manual) but the imbalance worsened. The imbalance has been as high as .48 V from cell 1 when compared to any of the other 3. The app alerted me that there was an issue with the battery and I should contact Dji support, so I did. The only solution DJI support is willing to give me is to send the battery to them and wait for a replacement after it has been inspected. That means at least 2 weeks without a battery and incurred shipping cost for a product that was purchased less than a week ago and only used for the 1st time yesterday. I was also told to call the customer support telephone number only to get a message stating they are currently experiencing technical difficulties at the moment. I'm really starting to have buyers remorse as I purchased 3 of these phantoms in total (2 as gifts and one for me). I dont know what to expect with the other 2 phantoms.

Well Faze, I too have one battery that is imbalanced and discharging and charging and leaving it on charge long after it is done doesn't do a thing. So I figure they must be balancing during the self discharge mode. So I put it on discharge after one day (DJI GO App). That day passed and it is now on the second day of discharging (3 days in total so far).

I can't touch the power button to check on it since that restarts the timer and it goes back to day 0 again and I have to wait 3 more days to get back to this point. But if you are in a hurry, I could check it to see if the battery is balancing. If this doesn't work, we both have to send our batteries back to DJI. Luckily for me, I still have two more which are fine.

Faze Posted at 2016-12-27 09:53
Hello,
Did you ever get this issue resolved? Im having a similar issue right now and its rather frustrating. I have a brand new phantom (just took it out of the box for the 1st time yesterday). I noticed the battery imbalance when I conducted the first pre-flight check. Cell 1 was lower than the other 3 by .7volts. I discharged and charged the battery 4 times since then (even tried the fully discharge method listed in the manual) but the imbalance worsened. The imbalance has been as high as .48 V from cell 1 when compared to any of the other 3. The app alerted me that there was an issue with the battery and I should contact Dji support, so I did. The only solution DJI support is willing to give me is to send the battery to them and wait for a replacement after it has been inspected. That means at least 2 weeks without a battery and incurred shipping cost for a product that was purchased less than a week ago and only used for the 1st time yesterday. I was also told to call the customer support telephone number only to get a message stating they are currently experiencing technical difficulties at the moment. I'm really starting to have buyers remorse as I purchased 3 of these phantoms in total (2 as gifts and one for me). I dont know what to expect with the other 2 phantoms.

Faze, sorry to hear about your're experiencing the difficulties, we'd love to try our best to help you.
Since you have discharge and charge it again for several times, if the error persists, the best course would be send it in for evaluation.
You will get a good one since it's brand new and still under the warranty if it's a product faulty after evaluation by our engineers.
Very thanks for your supporting again!

Geez,
How unfortunate. I wouldn't suggest you cancel the discharge since you're halfway there. If it works, it will be helpful information for others that may experience the same issue and are outside of the warranty period. Im debating if I should just abandon ship on DJI products now while I still can. I would've been ok with DJI support taking my credit card info, sending and me a replacement battery. Once received I would return the old one to them. They could then perform their check on the old battery and warranty it after (refund the battery fee). I feel like the two or more week wait time + shipping cost is a bit ridiculous for a new, barely used product that was defective when I opened it. Now i'm left with a "bad taste in my mouth" from DJi and their customer support. Thanks for the reply!

Unfortunately from my side - being originator of this subject - I am stuck in East Russia trying to finish up work that should have been weeks before Xmas.

Faze --- please can you reread your post as first you say 0.7v then later 0.48v .... both are not good though.

Try this .... carefully and NOT with metal or wire brush .... clean the small battery contacts of the battery as well as the mating socket inside the battery compartment. You may have dirty connection giving false reading to telemetry.
Clean the main power contacts as well ....

Lastly - put battery into charger - switch on battery. This will over-ride the default no-charge higher than 92% setting. Leave it till all completed ... check again.

Let's see if we can get you airborne !

Nigel

I can't disagree with you at all Faze. And it surely doesn't leave a very good first impression.

solentlife Posted at 2016-12-23 21:15
Sorry but this gets worse ..... is it possible that a question can be answered fully instead of waffle ?

This is the latest reply to me ...

Hi Nigel, the warranty period for battery in EU is 1 year/200 times cycle.
The real performance for the battery depends on it's situation after 200 cycles, many factors will affect its function, such as temperature, environment and the way you use and store it.
After discharge and re-charge it again, you can check the information through the APP on "Battery Info" page. If the battery life is 0%, it will not function properly, so it must be replaced.

To charge a near full intelligent flight battery, plug in the charger, turn the battery pack on First, then apply the charger power supply leads. ;-)


RedHotPoker

solentlife Posted at 2016-12-27 10:34
Unfortunately from my side - being originator of this subject - I am stuck in East Russia trying to finish up work that should have been weeks before Xmas.

Faze --- please can you reread your post as first you say 0.7v then later 0.48v .... both are not good though.

Thanks for pointing that out Solentlife, I mistyped that but corrected my original post to avoid confusing others. I will give cleaning the contacts a go. I did visually inspect them and all looked good but didnt actually try cleaning them. Thanks for the charging tip! Im used to being able to balance my LiPo's manually like I do with my other R/C's but thats not the case here...

Priviet Natalija,

The question of whether 0% life is based purely on cycle count of 200 still is not answered. Lipo's are good for far more than 200 cycles when used properly.

So - if a battery gets to 200 cycles will it automatically be it cannot fly the aircraft regardless of its being in good condition ?

People also like to quote App showing mAh condition after charging etc. This is at best an approximation based on amps x time in use / charging. App basically takes initial voltage, then over time measures current - calculates mAh ...... adds / subtracts to technical mAh level based on that initial voltage. At best an educated guesstimate.

The only real ways to determine a battery is good or not :

1) Temperature after use
2)  Internal Resistance change from first days
3). Flight time before battery exhausted
4). Physical observed condition.

Numbers shown by such as Go App are at best good indicators only.

Nigel

Battery is reporting full charged now. I just looked at the battery status and its showing...Cell 1 @ 4.22V
Cell 2 @ 4.32V
Cell 3 @ 4.37V
Cell 4 @ 4.37V


Also getting a Battery Cell Broken Warning.
I attached a photo of the the battery in its discharged state.

Could to try the charge with battery "on" method to see if anythign changes.

Battery Turned "On" while charging method has completed with the following results...

Cell 1 @ 4.23V
Cell 2 @ 4.32V
Cell 3 @ 4.37V
Cell 4 @ 4.38V
Total mAH 4071

.15V delta between worst cell (Cell 1) and best cell (Cell 4)

solentlife Posted at 2016-12-26 20:58
Priviet Natalija,

The question of whether 0% life is based purely on cycle count of 200 still is not answered. Lipo's are good for far more than 200 cycles when used properly.

I am getting a ratio of every 5 recharges knocks the battery life percent down by 1%. If this ratio stays the same in the future, that means the DJI GO App will refuse to fly with the battery starting with 501 recharges.

Faze Posted at 2016-12-26 21:21
Battery Turned "On" while charging method has completed with the following results...

Cell 1 @ 4.23V

Yeah my imbalanced battery wasn't quite that bad.

Batt 2 100%
-----------
Cell 1 - 4.31v
Cell 2 - 4.30v
Cell 3 - 4.33v
Cell 4 - 4.26v

BillW50 Posted at 2016-12-27 11:30
Yeah my imbalanced battery wasn't quite that bad.

Batt 2 100%

My battery started out with an imbalance higher than yours after months of use...

Faze Posted at 2016-12-27 11:21
Battery Turned "On" while charging method has completed with the following results...

Cell 1 @ 4.23V

Faze, thanks for the screenshot, it's not recommended to use this batter any more for the cells problem.
You have contacted our tech support for a case number, right?

Faze Posted at 2016-12-26 21:34
My battery started out with an imbalance higher than yours after months of use...

Yeah that one only has 4 recharges on it. 24 hours from now it should be the end of 3 days of self discharging and I am hoping that is when it is balancing the cells.

Have to agree with Natalija .... get it changed.

Problem with lipo's - they are not recoverable ..... if trying various ways to get a cell up fails - its basically damaged and that's it. If new / in warranty - get it changed.
If not then use it for bench testing ..... saving the good batterys for flights.

With traditional two lead lipo's where we have main and balance leads available to us - we can charge individual cells and bring one up. But it usually runs down quicker than the others or just pulls the amps / volts down low. Rarely gives us the lipo back again for serious use.

Nigel

Interesting that this thread appears now a STICKY at BACK of listing and does not bump to front anymore ....

DJI - are you trying to keep this thread from being seen ? Without deleting it ?

Twice now I have returned to it ... with new posts quoted at minutes ... but still last on page 2 !!

Nigel

DJI Natalia Posted at 2016-12-27 11:36
Faze, thanks for the screenshot, it's not recommended to use this batter any more for the cells problem.
You have contacted our tech support for a case number, right?

Natalia,
I contacted your support through the web chat and was told to call the telephone they gave. When I called the number, I got a message saying dji was experiencing technical difficulties and couldn't speak to anyone. So no, I did not get a case number.

solentlife Posted at 2016-12-27 12:33
Interesting that this thread appears now a STICKY at BACK of listing and does not bump to front anymore ....

DJI - are you trying to keep this thread from being seen ? Without deleting it ?

I noticed the same thing!!! I had to go back into the reminders to even find it again. I'm so disappointed with this product and level of service. Now hiding the thread? How unethical are we going to get here?

Faze Posted at 2016-12-27 12:42
Natalia,
I contacted your support through the web chat and was told to call the telephone they gave. When I called the number, I got a message saying dji was experiencing technical difficulties and couldn't speak to anyone. So no, I did not get a case number.

What's the battery SN, please? may I know when you bought it?

When will DJI allow this thread to move from 'last in listing' ?

Nigel

DJI Natalia Posted at 2016-12-27 15:55
What's the battery SN, please? may I know when you bought it?

Battery SN attached. I purchased 12/19/2016 from Best Buy.

Faze Posted at 2016-12-27 08:34
Battery SN attached. I purchased 12/19/2016 from Best Buy.

Before you send it back, I would wait until I check mine to see if it has balanced the cells during the self discharge cycle. As I am leaning that everybody else got it wrong when they say DJI balances at the end of charge (this is normally how it is done on other systems). I am planning on checking it really soon here. It has been self discharging 2 1/2 days now and that should be good enough to see if it balanced the battery.

Yes it did balance a bit. It was a 70mv difference and now it is a 50mv difference at 52% charge. But I left it all on and the battery is now down to 47% and now it is only a 30mv difference. So try it with everything on, but the motors off and see if it gets better and better in time. Some put a fan aimed at the camera if you do this. As the camera gets about 130°F without one. Now it is down to 46% charged and there is only a 20mv difference.

Hmm I did try discharging it fully but did so while it was flying 1 foot off the ground. That actually seemed to make things worse. Went from .07 V difference to .50V. I haven't tried the 3 day discharge though. Really don't want to be bothered with it anymore as this battery is brand new

Faze Posted at 2016-12-27 10:45
Hmm I did try discharging it fully but did so while it was flying 1 foot off the ground. That actually seemed to make things worse. Went from .07 V difference to .50V. I haven't tried the 3 day discharge though. Really don't want to be bothered with it anymore as this battery is brand new

In my experience it is far better to balance near full than to balance near empty. As that shows the biggest difference near empty. But balance near empty leads to some cells overcharging. So balancing near full stops that. Although between 30 to 100% in my experience it should be about the same difference. Yes I understand your decision to send it in. While I will continue to experiment here.

BillW50 Posted at 2016-12-28 00:53
In my experience it is far better to balance near full than to balance near empty. As that shows the biggest difference near empty. But balance near empty leads to some cells overcharging. So balancing near full stops that. Although between 30 to 100% in my experience it should be about the same difference. Yes I understand your decision to send it in. While I will continue to experiment here.

I cant help but to feel like the total lifespan of this battery will be shorter due to this issue so early with it.

This is all preliminary of course, but this is what it looks like right now.

Self discharge mode for 2 1/2 days will only give you about a 25mv closer balancing. Not very efficient and it could take weeks and months balancing this way.

Just having the power light on will balance the same amount in an hour's time. It is looking like once the charge is down to about 40%, it will stop balancing. Turn off the battery and all balancing stops unless it is in self discharge mode. Later once some adapters arrives in the mail, I'll figure out what is the minimum load you need to have on the battery to keep the battery on. That looks like the best way to balance these batteries. And even at this speed, it might take 12 to 24 hours to balance them completely.

Faze Posted at 2016-12-27 12:04
I cant help but to feel like the total lifespan of this battery will be shorter due to this issue so early with it.

Well it is ok with me if you want to send it off to DJI. Although figuring out how this battery balances I see a lot of process of getting them back in line again. It just can take 12 to 24 hours to do it. Which is pretty normal for most lipo packs with RC chargers (although I normally cheat and balance them in minutes). Once you get lipo packs balanced, they should stay there for a long time. If they don't, then I would view that battery as questionable.

Once I get back home - I have a pal who reckons he opened a pack and sorted out a few issues --- closed it back up and it works. He also has a pack with a dud board. He reckoned he 'shorted' contacts to ground and it reset .... but still dud.
We plan on getting to bases with the battery's and if possible devise Owners way to care for them.

Nigel

Damn! I recharged the battery and I am back in being 70mv difference again. All of this time and I gained nada! So everything I thought I was learning was totally worthless. Well I tried everything I can think of and nothing gets it better. Unless they are balancing at something like 50 to 60% only or something, I am not getting it. If that is what they are doing, I can see why they worry about puffy cells. As I would too. As I would balance at full or near full and then you don't have to worry about it. My other two batteries are well balanced so they won't teach me anything. Oh well back to the drawing board. If anybody has any ideas, I'd love to hear them.

Yeah I am draining this one again and it is using the exact same playbook as before. It gets better (by the same amount as before) as it drains until around 50%. There is zero sign this one is balancing anything. Either this one doesn't balance or they all are like this one (heaven forbid).

Hopefully when I get home soon ... just have last fuel blending to do for you dear USA cousins .... I will get hold of my mate's dud pack and rip it apart ... see what is really in there ....

Trouble is - given that DJI have decided to 'tag' this thread and not allow it to be easily seen - I will have to promulgate the info another way.

Nigel

BillW50 Posted at 2016-12-28 07:48
Yeah I am draining this one again and it is using the exact same playbook as before. It gets better (by the same amount as before) as it drains until around 50%. There is zero sign this one is balancing anything. Either this one doesn't balance or they all are like this one (heaven forbid).

If the cell is damaged - then no amount of balancing will regain its former condition. With normal lipo's - where we have balance leads etc - we can bring a cell up to max, but put into a model and quite often that cell reverts to bad state again.
Nigel

Faze Posted at 2016-12-28 02:04
I cant help but to feel like the total lifespan of this battery will be shorter due to this issue so early with it.

If that makes none sense, please send it in for evaluation, we'll take care of your case.
Sorry for the inconvenience caused.