Having requested information - this is the reply, I have not copied the last part which is just repeats of manual texts.....

It appears from this wording that the Warranty is 1 year or 200 cycles, NOT battery life. The wording does say 'if it fails after .....' giving impression that battery life is not fixed at the 200 cycles. To try and fix at 1 year anyway would be impossible as no one can predict shelf time at sellers.
Therefore I assume that someone in the past has misunderstood DJI cycle statement and started this 200 cycle life myth.

"Dear Nigel,

Thank you for contacting DJI NL Support.

In regards to your query on cycle life of the Intelligent battery, these are good for 200 cycles or 1 year or which comes sooner. In the event that the battery fails within these period, we can execute a repair for the battery (if not physically damaged or swollen). If the batteries went faulty after the given period, then we will advise valued customers to purchase a new battery which will have a fresh 1 year/200 cycle warranty.

As these are intelligent batteries, the battery LED indicator will show as to how much charge these batteries have."

I did ask if the counter can be reset in event battery is still good - DJI of course replied 'not possible'.

Nigel

As much as I really want to give you a positive comment, with reaffirming info, I have nothing good to add.
Only suggest taking care of your flight packs, and to cycle them appropriately. ;-)

Good luck in the future, with any new intelligent flight packs you may purchase.

RedHotPoker

Sound advice. "Beating around the bush" to reduce their liability.... as usual. I'm surprised they don't have "Battery is at end of life" warning in their app... yet.   

Interesting part is the 1 year statement ..... I believe that actual DJI warranty is 6 months ?

I will be following up with DJI Technical to clarify some points.

Watch this space for further info ....

Nigel

solentlife Posted at 2016-12-21 08:18
Interesting part is the 1 year statement ..... I believe that actual DJI warranty is 6 months ?

I will be following up with DJI Technical to clarify some points.

Valued customer gets to buy a new battery with a 1yr warranty? (edited to prevent getting banned).

Yes, be most careful with your verbiage, pronouns and adjectives. Haha
Better to play safe, than get ousted... Disqualified!!

RedHotPoker

If a ban was made for questioning DJI obvious confusion - then it really is a poor show !

As you have noticed - I'm not a person to kowtow - I believe in straight talking. I mean no offence to anyone, I was just brought up to be straight and to the point. Surprising really considering my Father was Government Official ......

Nigel

The round about answer has already been provided. Yet the same posts and new threads of similar questions, continue to be promoted.

I fly my drone, charge my packs and fly again, and again, and again. I worry about the weather, more than my flight packs.

They're gonna do their thing, just as most LiPos are known to do.

What do you expect DJI to tell you? Beyond a reasonable estimate...

You desire an exact time~date~place of final rest, the onset of death.

Better to fly them to death, and worry far less. Of the inevitable. ;-$
Nothing good, lasts forever... Haha

RedHotPoker

I am seeing every 5 cycles knocks 1% off of the battery life counter. Is this what everyone else is seeing? At this rate, 500 cycles and the battery life will be zero.

Depends also on how you fly them packs.

Hard and fast, or soft and slow mo...

RedHotPoker

RHP - please do not misunderstand - I have been using battery packs of most types over the more than 50 years of modeling. I do not expect nor can anyone predict actual life of any battery. Where do you get the idea I wanted that ?

My quest was to clear up this myth of the 'finite 200 cycle' life that gets posted .....

It also appears that regardless of cycles and / or % displayed - if battery is good to fly - it will fly...

There are many buying these models and have no knowledge of LiPo's - if my posts can help them understand more what they have in their hand - what is wrong with that ?

Let's say for example, a newbie buys a P3S, he knows very little about battery care and reads 200 cycles 1 year ... zero %. He is then likely to dump a perfectly good battery, soend out silly money on a new one when it gets to that number.
And before the comment - and when his aircraft falls out of sky because of old battery .....

That is just a silly argumentative statement that in reality is unlikely to happen. Old batterys do not usually suddenly die like that. The power reduces at a lot shorter flight time than normal, RTH / warning would flash up due to voltage sag ....
You would notice the poor performance.

Nigel

The best way to make them last, is to park them on a shelf. If you aren't completely satisfied, then that's on you.
It's a hobby, with expenses, some which never seem to end. That obviously includes flight packs.
How many can you afford, & How much should you use them? I only bought mine to fly my drone with.
Never giving a second thought to longevity, or of failure. Only enjoying them while they can propel my drone. That's all.

You would think, after your 50+ years in the RC world, you would have these pertinent answers already... Ha
See, for me, it's only been around five years, and I really don't have time to waste, fretting about an RC battery life. Giggles

RedHotPoker

BillW50 Posted at 2016-12-20 16:29
I am seeing every 5 cycles knocks 1% off of the battery life counter. Is this what everyone else is seeing? At this rate, 500 cycles and the battery life will be zero.

Aloha Bill,

     That is better than me.  Last time I looked, I could not find the Battery Life Counter at all any more.  Maybe they figured out that it was more trouble than it is worth.

Aloha and Drone On!

Cetacean Posted at 2016-12-20 21:40
Aloha Bill,

     That is better than me.  Last time I looked, I could not find the Battery Life Counter at all any more.  Maybe they figured out that it was more trouble than it is worth.

It's now available in the Android Go app, only.

Hopefully DJI will bring it back for all of us "Apple" iOS users... ;-)


RedHotPoker

solentlife Posted at 2016-12-21 11:41
RHP - please do not misunderstand - I have been using battery packs of most types over the more than 50 years of modeling. I do not expect nor can anyone predict actual life of any battery. Where do you get the idea I wanted that ?

My quest was to clear up this myth of the 'finite 200 cycle' life that gets posted .....

Yeah, my X380's are really sensitive to voltage sag. Even with a new battery, the FC could do a warm reset if I pushed the throttle too hard or initiated a RTH during a 1st stage LV warning (40% remaining). Yet, I could fly it level 8 more minutes and then safely land if just I kept my thumb off the throttle.
Having a P3s and for my peace of mind, I'd play it safe and reserve the old battery for short flights.

solentlife Posted at 2016-12-20 17:41
RHP - please do not misunderstand - I have been using battery packs of most types over the more than 50 years of modeling. I do not expect nor can anyone predict actual life of any battery. Where do you get the idea I wanted that ?

My quest was to clear up this myth of the 'finite 200 cycle' life that gets posted .....

Aloha Nigel,

     What you are saying is all common sense and even what DJI said is also common sense.  LiPo batteries are not an exact technology, there are way too many variables, especially the way they can be molded.  DJI made a reasonable target that would fit well in an insurance company actuary table.  The reality is the insurance real world and your comments of the battery world.

     I believe you when you say some newby might throw out a 200 cycle battery that has shown no behavior of a compromised nature.  But, I would think that by 200 flights, normal battery behavior would be fairly well understood.  Emphasizing 200 cycles and 1 year are good targets but not finite targets.  It might also be questionable to send out a 200 cycle battery on a 2.5 mile flight.  Better to play those batteries closer to home.

Aloha and Drone On!

Ah, perhaps a long kite string would help you retrieve a wayward or lost drone...? Ha

RedHotPoker

So if I bring a pack up to 50-60 percent for storage from say, 30 percent is that a cycle? Or is a cycle to 100 percent. I guess my point is, define cycle.

Deep cycle, is draining it down to 8% or so.
A full charge cycle would be like going from 20%-100%
Or two charges of 50%-100% would be a single cycle.

RedHotPoker

The cycle range is another of my questions to be answered.

I am trying hard to keep this thread on track and relevant ... to be as informative as possible without too much waffle.

Nigel

Cetacean Posted at 2016-12-21 12:54
Aloha Nigel,

     What you are saying is all common sense and even what DJI said is also common sense.  LiPo batteries are not an exact technology, there are way too many variables, especially the way they can be molded.  DJI made a reasonable target that would fit well in an insurance company actuary table.  The reality is the insurance real world and your comments of the battery world.

Yeah, there's a strong liability factor involved with any of DJI's statements.... And it's common sense that I wouldn't drive from Pittsburgh to Vegas on 8 year old tires regardless of remaining tread depth.

Cetacean Posted at 2016-12-20 22:40
Aloha Bill,

     That is better than me.  Last time I looked, I could not find the Battery Life Counter at all any more.  Maybe they figured out that it was more trouble than it is worth.

Aloha Cetacean! No I don't see it in DJI GO anymore either. But it is still in the Litchi App.

BillW50 Posted at 2016-12-20 23:18
Aloha Cetacean! No I don't see it in DJI GO anymore either. But it is still in the Litchi App.

Aloha Bill,

     One of these days, I am going to get Litchi just so I can see what all it does.  I know what all it does, but I want to feel and see it.  Until then I am in listening mode!

     Someone posted that the "Lifetime" is back in the DJI GO app.  Now I got to look again, well after an update anyway.

Aloha and Drone On!

Hello Nigel, the warranty for Phantom 3 battery is 6 months and charge cycle less than 200 times. Please refer to our after-sales service policy. : http://www.dji.com/service/policy
Could you please clarify which email address you used to contact us?
Is the email address the same as your forum email account?
As for the battery life, please refer to below image.
Press and hold the power button for 5 seconds to check the battery life.

Hi Mindy ..... I contacted DJI direct via the DJI official website 'Contact us' .....

It was given #368814

Yes the email address was mine used here.

DJI reply was by person with name Lau.

As to the buttons / LED's --- well aware as I have all the manuals etc.

Nigel

DJI Mindy Posted at 2016-12-22 09:37
Hello Nigel, the warranty for Phantom 3 battery is 6 months and charge cycle less than 200 times. Please refer to our after-sales service policy. : http://www.dji.com/service/policy
Could you please clarify which email address you used to contact us?
Is the email address the same as your forum email account?

Thanks Mindy for the typical unsubstantial answer.
The question was more or less once the battery reached 200 cycles could it still be used. Not whether the warranty has any relation to the subject. If the cycle counter within the intelligent battery's charge controller cannot be reset, will the battery stop accepting a charge when the charge counter reaches 200 cycles or will the battery just tell the drone not to arm it's motors?   

Tks Betamace - beginning to think I was only one on the crusade !

The manual says once battery indication is 0% -  the intelligent flight battery must be replaced ......

It doesn't say it stops working ..... Lau makes it clear in his email to me that life can go on past the 200 cycle .... so either the % scale uses a different base or its purely advisory.

I tend to think its advisory .....

Nigel

Here's something really funny ....

Just received an email from DJI asking me to complete a Customer Service Survey for quality of reply. Prize of 50% cost of new P3A etc.

I do not think my survey form will be entered somehow ! As per usual survey's - not really much use at all.

Nigel

I am waiting further info from DJI ....

Nigel

solentlife Posted at 2016-12-22 17:03
I am waiting further info from DJI ....

Nigel

Eh, Incase the case gets cold, and you end up, turfed, for continuing hammering away at this nontopic,
It was nice knowing you... Be well. Hahaha

Take care of them packs. ;-)


RedHotPoker

RHP - given the forum is well aware of my quest - I am amazed at your post now.

If DJI are that sensitive to the subject - then why have a forum for owners at all ?

I do note quite a lot of posts of people 'being nice' to DJI - maybe it earns discount points ?

Me ? I just want straight facts and information from source.

Nigel

solentlife Posted at 2016-12-22 20:53
RHP - given the forum is well aware of my quest - I am amazed at your post now.

If DJI are that sensitive to the subject - then why have a forum for owners at all ?

Where do you want to go, next? ;-)

There are numerous other threads with very similar questions posed there.
Some of them got closed, while several were put to sleep.
I think, If your expected answers haven't been forth coming, they may not be...

But good luck. Oh by the way, I'm in the market for three more intelligent flight batteries.
Ah, so if you know anyone parting out their Phantom 3 flight kit?  ;-)

RedHotPoker

I have an online source that sells within EU well below discount pricing original new DJI packs ....

As to other similar posts - other than ones started / posted in by me - there are none with same info as I have got hold of / questioned. If there was - I would have read and 'digested'.

Nigel

Sorry but this gets worse ..... is it possible that a question can be answered fully instead of waffle ?

This is the latest reply to me ...


zhao chao (DJI)
Dec 23, 20:01 HKT

Dear DJI customer,

Greeting! Thank you for contacting DJI Tech Support.
A) our battery warranty in EU is 1 year/200 times cycle which comes sooner. you can check the cycle times in battery information page DJI GO.
B)There is no statement whether battery will stop working after 200 times or not.

1.For phantom battery it consists of 4 cells inside. Each cells has its own voltage. The voltage difference should not be over 200 mV between each cells which is so-call balance. OFC our APP is able to detect the unbalance and notify our customer.

2. Each LED stands for 25% battery life and the two status (blinking and solid light) stands for 12.5% battery life.

3.Correct, the app will not allow drone to take off if the battery life is 0%

Please feel free to contact us should you have any question

Merry Christmas.
DJI Tech Support.


       
Nigel Luther
Dec 23, 08:02 HKT

Dear Lau,

I am now confused by your reply.

A) Warranty of battery's is 6 months / 200 cycles, whichever first - but you say 1 year or 200 cycles.
B) There is no statement defining whether battery stops working at 200 cycles or not. Your reply suggests battery continues after 200 but is inconclusive.

I have three further questions :

1. When does the battery 'balance' ? Is this conducted during charge, at end of charge or during auto-discharge ? Please can you state clearly when balancing of cells occurs.

2. How does the battery LED system calculate life % ? Is it a % of the 200 cycles or based on other information such as Internal Resistance of cells etc. ?

3. Manual states that when 'life check' indicates 0% - it must be replaced. Does this mean that aircraft will refuse to fly once this check 0% is reached ?

More questions to them .... waiting reply.

Nigel

solentlife Posted at 2016-12-24 09:11
More questions to them .... waiting reply.

Nigel

Well, at least they replied in a reasonable amount of time.

IMHO, the cell deviation notification is more a feature than a safe guard. Easily ignored.

Trouble is DJI say the FW balances the cells .... this tech reply says it notifies us via the app.

I do not like idea of paying such price for a LiPo that appears to be not balancing ! LiPo's do not stay balanced even when in good condition. There is good reason why.

During charge and flight use - cells increase in temperature. The outer cells have a better time of it than interior cells where outer cells can dissipate some of the heat. Increase of temperature causes increased internal resistance - which in turn increase temperature. This causes greater stress on those inner cells and often unbalanced results. Cells 2 and 3 ....
If we don't use regular balance charge and get them balanced properly - it is an accumulating problem. Damage is not recoverable.

Nigel

solentlife Posted at 2016-12-24 12:22
Trouble is DJI say the FW balances the cells .... this tech reply says it notifies us via the app.

I do not like idea of paying such price for a LiPo that appears to be not balancing ! LiPo's do not stay balanced even when in good condition. There is good reason why.

I wouldn't take anything tech support says literally, probably their pay scale is inline with their custodial workers. You can tell by the indirect responses that they are just potatoes occupying a cozy cubicle.
Being a born pragmatist, I rely on my own common sense. I'm not afraid to replace hardware when required but then again, I'm still the one to draw the line.  

Even Hobby King Product Support gives better answers than DJI !

People complain about HK Customer Service - but too often they are talking to wrong service or do not explain themselves well. Technical Services or as in HK - Product Support should give reasonable replies that make information clear. Technical is technical.

I work in a field that if I did same as DJI - I would be out of a job first instance !

We spend good money - therefore we should get good support. If my crusade or any others causes a change for better - then I am very happy.

Nigel

Maybe once you get all the technical info you seek, then you could babysit my four flight packs, too? ;-)

I used to worry about getting grey hair, so I would just pluck them out. Thankfully I saved then in a jar.
Now I worry more about going bald, and insert them back in... ;-)

No, you can't truly win. But isn't playing the Life game fun? Ha


RedHotPoker
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