I have had my Phantom 3 Standard for a few weeks now & done 10 or so flights. The drone was purchased through Jessops in the UK along with an extra intelligent battery. I'm not sure which of the batteries is showing the issue, the one that came with the drone or the extra one but one of the cells is showing "major deviations" according to the HealthyDrones web site. I've only uploaded two flights to HealthyDrones for this battery but they both show the same problem with cell 2. The image attached for latest flight is showing the needle in the yellow now, the previous flight it was in the green just below the yellow but all flight time segments for cell 2 were still red. The other battery is green across the board & showing no such issues.
I take it this is a major issue & will only get worse. Should this be returned to Jessops or DJI for replacement under warrnaty?
Thank you.

The DJI warranty for batteries is 6 months or 200 cycles, whichever comes first. So you have time there. Speaking of LiPo in general, the first thing I would do is to balance the battery. And DJI has no options for the user to do this themselves (no access to the balance port). Balancing is normally time consuming. Due to most methods of balancing is done by small discharge currents. In some cases, this process can take like 24 hours or more. And I am still unclear how and when DJI does this balancing. My guess it happens just after charging and all of the LEDs goes out. Maybe you have to leave it on the charger for awhile to see if that cell balances out. I have one like yours (purchased from DJI directly) and I am going to leave it on the charger and see what happens.

Please fully-discharge the batteries and charge it again, then go to battery info page on DJI GO APP.
You could upload the screenshot here so that we can help you check whether it's normal or not.

BillW50 Posted at 2016-12-21 10:12
The DJI warranty for batteries is 6 months or 200 cycles, whichever comes first. So you have time there. Speaking of LiPo in general, the first thing I would do is to balance the battery. And DJI has no options for the user to do this themselves (no access to the balance port). Balancing is normally time consuming. Due to most methods of balancing is done by small discharge currents. In some cases, this process can take like 24 hours or more. And I am still unclear how and when DJI does this balancing. My guess it happens just after charging and all of the LEDs goes out. Maybe you have to leave it on the charger for awhile to see if that cell balances out. I have one like yours (purchased from DJI directly) and I am going to leave it on the charger and see what happens.

Thanks Bill

DJI Natalia Posted at 2016-12-21 11:34
Please fully-discharge the batteries and charge it again, then go to battery info page on DJI GO APP.
You could upload the screenshot here so that we can help you check whether it's normal or not.

Natalia,

Thanks. To what percentage should I discharge the battery & what is the best way to do that?

DJI Natalia Posted at 2016-12-21 11:34
Please fully-discharge the batteries and charge it again, then go to battery info page on DJI GO APP.
You could upload the screenshot here so that we can help you check whether it's normal or not.

Natalia,

I had already charged up the suspect battery when I got your message.
I think when I landed, the battery was at approximatly 60%. I have taken a screen shot as you asked now it's fully charged but if I need to do another after full discharge & recharge let me know.

Yeah balancing the battery should correct this. Hopefully someone that understands DJI method of balancing should fill us in on the details.

Well leaving it on charge for 12 hours didn't help one of mine that needs balancing. All the rest of mine are fine. Maybe DJI does the balancing act during the self discharge. You know, where you tell it how many days you want it to start? And that takes two days from the day it starts. And you can't press the button before or during or the timer starts from day 0 all over again.

I'm wondering if OP was trying to charge when battery is in high state of charge. We know this will not work. You need to switch on battery to get charge going in.
Because later he had battery down at 60% - the charger then was able to do its job. The later screen shot shows 0.1v down on cell 2 ..... this is generally considered about maximum deviation before a battery starts its path to lesser duties !
LiPo's normally do not revive from damage .... but more likely that here balancing is kicking out before completing that last tiny bit.

Flying / charging / flying etc. Making sure before charging that battery is at least half depleted ..... each full charge keeping an eye on those cell numbers ... to see if improve or worsen.

Nigel

solentlife Posted at 2016-12-22 09:51
I'm wondering if OP was trying to charge when battery is in high state of charge. We know this will not work. You need to switch on battery to get charge going in.
Because later he had battery down at 60% - the charger then was able to do its job. The later screen shot shows 0.1v down on cell 2 ..... this is generally considered about maximum deviation before a battery starts its path to lesser duties !
LiPo's normally do not revive from damage .... but more likely that here balancing is kicking out before completing that last tiny bit.

Nigel,
Thanks for your reply.
This battery is brand new & only a few weeks old so shouldn't be going down hill yet.
Before the HealthyDrones log image the battery had a long flight & was probably down to 20-25% when I landed & recharged later that evening. This flight also showed major deviations all through it which I haven't posted. The flight log shown was only a shortish test flight to try out a way point mission & try recording at 1080P instead of 2.7K. The battery was at 100% at take off & around 60% on landing (then I had to go back inside & do some work ). I put it on charge to make sure I had a full charge for my Christmas break down by the coast. Then checked my log with HealthyDrones & saw the deviations for a second flight & thought I should post. The battery had already fully charged when DJI Natalia replied asking me to fully discharge & recharge....she also hasn't comeback yet to tell me what level fully discharge is. I posted the second image from DJI Go app after the full charge (but without full discharge) in case it was useful. This battery should certainly be drained over the Christmas break, weather permitting, so will see how it charges & balances....if at all.

Thanks & have a great Christmas everyone.

BillW50 Posted at 2016-12-21 21:52
Yeah balancing the battery should correct this. Hopefully someone that understands DJI method of balancing should fill us in on the details.

I'm not absolutely sure this will work but in my past experience with regular multi cell lipos, switching to balance charge mode after 95-98% on regular charge mode seems to iron out any balance issues and results in obtaining a balanced charge much quicker than simply using balance charge mode from the get-go.

Now, here's the good part.  When the DJI battery fails to reach 100% charge because of minor imbalance.... Turning on the battery before again connecting the charger usually results in 100% charge indicated on completion.

It's printed on the battery that it can be either on or off when you charge it so there's little worry that something can go wrong.

Betamace Posted at 2016-12-22 14:38
I'm not absolutely sure this will work but in my past experience with regular multi cell lipos, switching to balance charge mode after 95-98% on regular charge mode seems to iron out any balance issues and results in obtaining a balanced charge much quicker than simply using balance charge mode from the get-go.

Now, here's the good part.  When the DJI battery fails to reach 100% charge because of minor imbalance.... Turning on the battery before connecting the charger usually results in 100% charge indicated on completion.

Yes that is the way it works with most lipo chargers. It doesn't work that way with DJI Intelligent Batteries though. The only thing I can think of that it balances the cells only during the self discharge cycle. I'll know if this is true in a few days.

BillW50 Posted at 2016-12-23 04:57
Yes that is the way it works with most lipo chargers. It doesn't work that way with DJI Intelligent Batteries though. The only thing I can think of that it balances the cells only during the self discharge cycle. I'll know if this is true in a few days.

I'll be watching 'n waiting.

Hi Betamace --- I did mention the switch on battery earlier ....

As Bill says, DJI have taken away from us ability to manually control our battery's. Something I really object to.

To "taurus35" - the level that DJI call deep or full discharge is to ~3.0v per cell - that is 12v total. Their way of achieving such discharge is to power the model till it no longer flies. Sorry DJI - but that if repeated a few times can spell death to LiPo battery. Without external control of cell voltage levels - you run serious risk of uneven cell discharge .... if that happens one cell has to be below the 3v mark and that is something to be avoided.
I cannot believe the DJI battery balances during in-use discharge - the amps are too high. No 'board' could do that without serious heatsinks etc. The balance function must be when charging the pack.
"taurus35" - i suggest do as DJI suggest - discharge the pack down to a point that aircraft is near to not flying - watch the battery led's and when you only have one led steady - thats it. The battery will then be somewhere from 10 to 20% ..
Leave battery off and alone for maybe 20 - 30 mins to cool down and also cells to recover. Then connect to model - power up - check cell voltages and note down.
Power off and then recharge. Leave on charge till well after all lights show full .... maybe another 10 - 20 mins. Disconnect and with multi-meter check total voltage across main battery terminals - note down.
Connect to model and check cell voltages again. See if you still have same variances. Note numbers and would be nice to see all these numbers here for us to comment on...

I suggest that you do not repeat too often deep discharge of these packs.

Good luck.

Nigel

taurus35 Posted at 2016-12-21 20:38
Natalia,

I had already charged up the suspect battery when I got your message.

May I know have you done a full-discharge and recharge it?

If leaving the drone on, and sitting idle, I Place it on an upturned fan to help cool it.
Yon may have an air conditioner to do the same thing.

RedHotPoker

RedHotPoker Posted at 2016-12-23 14:59
If leaving the drone on, and sitting idle, I Place it on an upturned fan to help cool it.
Yon may have an air conditioner to do the same thing.

Totally agree .... I have a small fan I use.... switch on and blow air through under the model to keep that camera and gimbal cool.The electronics may be ok with elevated temp - but magnets used in motors / servis etc. are not.

I have a PC fan that runs of 5v designed for enclosed space boat motors which i no longer ned in one boat - that is being fitted to a board fir my P3S to stand on for setup / checks etc.

I dont like using the Sim program because it needs the aircraft powered up as well - how daft is that !!!

Nigel

solentlife Posted at 2016-12-23 00:18
Totally agree .... I have a small fan I use.

Yes, it makes sense, to not let the belly of the beast, overheat.
And that utilizing a fan, will duplicate flying, and open air being drawn across the drone.

RedHotPoker

DJI Natalia Posted at 2016-12-22 22:15
May I know have you done a full-discharge and recharge it?

Hi Natalia,

Hi have done a couple of full discharges since my  last message but it doesn't seem to me that the battery has recovered at  all. I did a discharge to below 10% over the Christmas holiday &  recharge but it didn't seem to change anything, still major deviations  reported on cell 2 on HealthyDrones log, flight was 26-12-2016.



The  following two pictures were after I charged the battery Monday  16-1-2017, after it had been self discharging for a few days, I think it  was showing about 55% before charging. As you can see cell 2 is still  down & it only shows 97% on image 2 after a full charge.






The following two pictures are after it had been discharged to below 10% yesterday (19-1-17) after a flight, cell2 still down.






The  following three pictures are after a full charge today, also left  charger connected for a couple of hours after lights had gone out to try  to force balance but no luck. Cell2 is still down & the battery  after a full charge is showing 95%.








Please  advise if this battery is faulty & should be replaced under  warranty either from you or who I purchased it from. I do not want my  Phantom to fall from the sky suddenly using this battery if it's faulty  & cause more issues.

Thanks.

As has been said by myself and others many times - despite DJI insistence on deep discharges - they DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO A BATTERY GOOD >>> in fact they risk making the battery WORSE !

DJI should change its advice and take note of Battery Experts who create web pages and online advice specifically covering LiPo cells. Not me - I just learn from what they write - which serves me well over many years and many LiPo's in use.

Seriously .... this mis-direction should be stopped ... no more deep discharges risking batterys.

Nigel

Perhaps our DJI intelligent flight battery packs have more brains than the older style LiPo were capable?
Deep cycling is an important component to having healthier battery life.

Please follow DJI advice and continue to deep cycle after every 10 full charges.

RedHotPoker

Its bad advice ... simply put.

Battery tech has moved on a long way but still LiPo's do not recover from damage. They can only balance out when charged to max and energy supplied to top up the lower cells. Even then the damaged cell will suffer voltage drop more serverely than the other more healthy due to its higher Internal Resistance.Deep discharge only risks pushing one or more cells below safe levels.

I personally will not carry out such policy and early retire batterys so DJI can have another slice of money from me.

Please RHP - show me an Experts write up that supports DJI deep discharge - I mean a proper write up - not some forumites maybe musings.

Deep cycling LiPo's is guaranteed to shorten life ... proven and indisputable.

If nothing else - look at the poor guys posts above ... what good did any of it do ? He got exactly what I predicted .. NO benefit whatsoever.

Final point ... the DJI Intelligent battery can in fact hinder the balancing and full charge capability by terminating charge before full balance has occurred. Other LiPo's that do not have this - are balanced at top end of charge and come out full capacity. Even using a recognised LiPo HV charger - it cannot get past the DJI limitation.

QED mate !

Nigel

RHP ..... just to re-inforce my comment :

DJI no longer advises in their documents to Deep Discharge batterys ... please check :

Intelligent Flight Battery Safety Guidelines

I will try and find the post that another noted the change in the guidelines wording - where the advice to Deep Discharge was REMOVED .....

Time for DJI to stop advising bad practice ... sorry no Disrespect to Natalie etc. - but it really is bad advice.

Nigel

Red Hot Poker goes quiet ............. that's something for the diary !!

Of course he has no technical docs to support his position.

I don't have to provide - they are freely available to anyone with Google ... Yahoo ... Bing etc.

Yawn ... Yawn ..... another one bites the dust ...

Nigel

Sorry DJI ... but after pulling apart a DJI battery and examining parts - your 'Intelligent board' is really not much more than a Charge Controller.

I am surprised by the claims made about its ability given what we found ! No wonder it doesn't balance out cells !
DJI .... before you ban me from this Forum - maybe you should really explain what it REALLY can do !!

Nigel

taurus35, Judging from the evidence solentlife has 'uncovered' with reference to the intelligent claim of the DJI battery control board I would jump on the warranty wagon and send the battery in for replacement.

taurus35 Posted at 2017-1-20 07:40
Hi Natalia,

Hi have done a couple of full discharges since my  last message but it doesn't seem to me that the battery has recovered at  all. I did a discharge to below 10% over the Christmas holiday &  recharge but it didn't seem to change anything, still major deviations  reported on cell 2 on HealthyDrones log, flight was 26-12-2016.

If the battery level is above 95%, please turn on the battery before charging, or it will not be fully charged.
If it always stay in 95%, it can be sent in for a further evaluation by our engineers since it's hard to judge whether  it's fine remotely.
You can get in touch with our support via support.eu@dji.com for a case number then send it in.

DJI Natalia Posted at 2017-1-22 02:25
If the battery level is above 95%, please turn on the battery before charging, or it will not be fully charged.
If it always stay in 95%, it can be sent in for a further evaluation by our engineers since it's hard to judge whether  it's fine remotely.
You can get in touch with our support via  for a case number then send it in.

Natalia,

If you read the post correctly you will see that the battery was charged from 55% & only reached 97% when reconnected to drone. The second one, after a full discharge at your request to 8%, only showed 95% after a full recharge & reconnected to drone. My main concern is the major deviations the battery has been showing since day one from brand new. Not a major deviation every now & then but every single entry in the log file for every flight.
This needs to be replaced under warranty.

taurus35 Posted at 2017-1-20 07:40
Hi Natalia,

Hi have done a couple of full discharges since my  last message but it doesn't seem to me that the battery has recovered at  all. I did a discharge to below 10% over the Christmas holiday &  recharge but it didn't seem to change anything, still major deviations  reported on cell 2 on HealthyDrones log, flight was 26-12-2016.

taurus35 you have posted more than enough info there for any reasonable person to conclude that you have a faulty battery, none of mine have more than 0.02V deviation at any time, under load or resting,  fully charged down to 10%.  You are pushing 0.1V always on the same cell on a new battery and its only going to become worse.

Natalia may be hedging her bets but the indications are clear, the only option is do you send it directly to DJI or return it to your supplier. I hope DJI replace it with one of the P4P higher capacity batteries as a sign of good faith.

Just to update this thread:

My "faulty" battery was eventually returned to DJI via Jessops, where I bought the drone originally. After being lost in Jessops warehouse for two weeks, it made it's way to China for investigation. They concluded there was a problem that should be sorted under warranty & according the case number tracking info the battery was "repaired". It was returned back to Jessops, all within ten days....Jessops then managed to lose it again in their warehouse for a further ten days before it was finally returned to me. Once opened I noticed it hadn't been repaired but replaced with a brand new battery. All in all, very happy with great service from DJI.....but not so much from Jessops.

Hi,

I think i have a problem, just like you.
When i was fully charged my battery, it was 0,09 deviation, but after i discharged by running the engines, it was get closer to 0,04v deviation, i discharged to 8%, after that, i recharged it again, and it was 0,09v again.

You can see the images as below, any indeas:

1st fully charged

1st pic of dischaged

2nd of discharged

3rd pic of discharged

2nd fully charged

hoang2010 Posted at 2017-3-25 16:24
Hi,

I think i have a problem, just like you.

Hoang,

Upload your flight records to Healthy Drones (now called Airdata UAV). Go to the Power tab & Battery Cells section & see if you have a lot of red major deviations during your flights (as shown in one of my images above). If there all green then just keep an eye on it after every flight by checking on Healthy Drones. If there are a lot or all red then first try to get a replacement from your supplier or you will have to contact DJI for a returns ID & wait for them to look at it & hope they see it as faulty & replace it under warranty.