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Camera problem with Mavic Pro
2574 24 2017-1-11
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D.Walls
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So I've been recording for awhile now with the Mavic and I would like to know if this is only my problem or somebody is having this issue too.

I want to shoot with negative or 0 sharpness because I really don't like the digital sharpness, but then the compression softens the shadow areas to the point where it seems to be out of focus, but when you look at correctly exposed parts of the image, you see that the camera is correctly focused (I always check it).
This happens in any picture profile, any resolution, and even in photo mode (JPG) not only in video mode. The picture below is a JPG taken in photo mode with picture profile None -3 -3 -3, and you can clearly see that the tow is perfectly focused but the shadow area below is totally messed up.

Please DJI, give me an answer to this problem.

DJI_0099.jpg
2017-1-11
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DJI-Ken
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Is the tow way closer than the buildings in the shadow.
2017-1-11
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D.Walls
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2017-1-11 14:38
Is the tow way closer than the buildings in the shadow.

From the buildings on the horizon, yes, but if you look the top part of the tow is perfectly focused and the lower part is blurry, mixed with the buildings surrounding it. I have also a DNG taken at the same time where you can clearly see that everything is focused before the compression messed up processing the raw data from the sensor, but it shows red pixels in the lower right corner I don't know why, it's also strange. (The shadows are raised a little bit in the DNG so you can see that it's not a focus issue)
DJI_0099-1.jpg
2017-1-11
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rick39
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Isn't this due to the close proximity of the foreground being out of focus due to the subject in the distance being the subject of focus? Surely this isn't a problem but merely the principles of depth of field. Maybe I'm missing something, but this example isn't helped when coupled with the differences that exposure settings would make when shooting into direct sunlight. Do you have examples of other photos in a different scenario that display the problem you describe? It could also be that the images have been so greatly compressed in posting to the forum (not your fault) that the problems are less obvious.
2017-1-11
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DJI-Ken
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D.Walls Posted at 2017-1-11 14:45
From the buildings on the horizon, yes, but if you look the top part of the tow is perfectly focused and the lower part is blurry, mixed with the buildings surrounding it. I have also a DNG taken at the same time where you can clearly see that everything is focused before the compression messed up processing the raw data from the sensor, but it shows red pixels in the lower right corner I don't know why, it's also strange. (The shadows are raised a little bit in the DNG so you can see that it's not a focus issue)

I'm not a photographer, and for the quality of that photo I think the Mavic did good. I clicked on the photo and blew it up quite a bit.
To me the top of the tow looks just a hair blurry as well as the lower part of it. To me it looks like the camera was focused on the building behind it to the right with the gold dome on top. All the windows in the building look pretty clear.
You have to remember, for how tiny the Mavic is and how small the sensor is you are not going to get DSLR full frame quality.
2017-1-11
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D.Walls
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2017-1-11 14:53
I'm not a photographer, and for the quality of that photo I think the Mavic did good. I clicked on the photo and blew it up quite a bit.
To me the top of the tow looks just a hair blurry as well as the lower part of it. To me it looks like the camera was focused on the building behind it to the right with the gold dome on top. All the windows in the building look pretty clear.
You have to remember, for how tiny the Mavic is and how small the sensor is you are not going to get DSLR full frame quality.

Please, compare the 2 pictures I posted. The first is JPG and the second is DNG. They were taken at the same time (DNG + JPG option in DJI GO app). If you look at the buildings on both pictures, they are blurry on the JPG and sharp on the DNG, because the camera was correctly focused. I understand this problem may be due to me setting the sharpness at -3, but I still can't understand why the shadows are blurry, and the other parts of the image where there is more contrast are sharp. In the crop I posted below you can see that the tow is sharp in the upper area where there is more contrast, but blurry in the lower part even though it's focused properly.
DJI_0099.JPG
2017-1-11
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Impossible J
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Are we assuming that "-3" is the same thing as off? Is it possible that negative values actually introduce pixel blurring/interpolation in low-contrast areas intentionally? I would think "0-0-0" would be the neutral or "off" setting. Too bad none of this stuff is documented (looking at you, DJI).
2017-1-11
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rick39
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I think the differences between your RAW image and the .jpg image emphasises the amount of compression that a .jpg image suffers at the point of capture in the device compared to RAW. That compression may well affect areas of low light more than those areas that have a high contrast difference. Hence the difference in the crane's tower section where it clears the horizon and is backlit by the sky, rather than the muddiness of the low light levels seen in the rooftops of the foreground. This will be further affected for your viewers when uploaded on the web as further processing is made when uploading.
2017-1-12
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rick39
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I have had another look at your .jpg image (I understand they are both .jpg's, but that they are converted from two different file formats).
If you look at the original .jpg version you can see where light levels offer greater contrast, the sharpness is much better. Look at where the crane tower section is just below the horizon and you can see that some of the spas are sharp where the background is lighter.eg where there are small sections of white roofs behind the tower. Also, the same can be seen where the suns rays are glinting on areas in the lower section of the image such as the lattice section of the roof of the building immediately lower right of the bottom of the crane and also the diagonal sections immediately lower left. I'm sure this is due to .jpg compression where contrast differences are low.

Contrast differences

Contrast differences

Contrast differences

Contrast differences
2017-1-12
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D.Walls
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rick39 Posted at 2017-1-12 03:36
I have had another look at your .jpg image (I understand they are both .jpg's, but that they are converted from two different file formats).
If you look at the original .jpg version you can see where light levels offer greater contrast, the sharpness is much better. Look at where the crane tower section is just below the horizon and you can see that some of the spas are sharp where the background is lighter.eg where there are small sections of white roofs behind the tower. Also, the same can be seen where the suns rays are glinting on areas in the lower section of the image such as the lattice section of the roof of the building immediately lower right of the bottom of the crane and also the diagonal sections immediately lower left. I'm sure this is due to .jpg compression where contrast differences are low.

This problem also happens in video mode, not only JPG. The interesting point is: if I set the sharpness above 0 in JPG or video mode, you get the full detail in the shadows (so it's not just a compression thing, it's more of the post-processing made by the image processor on-board). The post-processing sharpness gives the image a selfphone-camera look I don't like, and increases the noise and the artifacts. I would like to have negative sharpness with detail in the shadows as it would be supposed to in any camera.
2017-1-12
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rick39
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But when comparing the two identical images shot at the same time and with identical camera setting's, the RAW file is so much sharper than the .jpg image. Surely that proves its a question of file format compression rather than camera settings.
2017-1-12
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rick39
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As for the file structure of video capture, look at the differences here between standard and RAW video capture. Due to huge file sizes and high levels of processing there aren't many cameras capable of producing RAW video.

2017-1-12
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rick39
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...and to conclude, I think you've reached the limitations of the camera on the Mavic. Low light is the problem as most daylight footage filmed with the Mavic isn't just good, its great, when you consider the amount of tech you get crammed into the overall cost of the Mavic drone. Higher ISO settings will help for the examples you have posted but this will introduce grain.
2017-1-12
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DJI-Ken
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rick39 Posted at 2017-1-12 04:12
...and to conclude, I think you've reached the limitations of the camera on the Mavic. Low light is the problem as most daylight footage filmed with the Mavic isn't just good, its great, when you consider the amount of tech you get crammed into the overall cost of the Mavic drone. Higher ISO settings will help for the examples you have posted but this will introduce grain.

As I said, I' not a photographer so to me the photo looks fine.
I have to agree that this tiny camera has it's limitations.
With the Mavic I can barely see anything at night. With the P4P I can see much better.
So yes, I think the limitations of the camera have been met.
The Mavic was made for it's portability, if the user wants an better camera then the P4P or even the P4 is a better choice.
2017-1-12
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D.Walls
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rick39 Posted at 2017-1-12 04:12
...and to conclude, I think you've reached the limitations of the camera on the Mavic. Low light is the problem as most daylight footage filmed with the Mavic isn't just good, its great, when you consider the amount of tech you get crammed into the overall cost of the Mavic drone. Higher ISO settings will help for the examples you have posted but this will introduce grain.

You are not understaiding my point. Of course I know the Mavic's camera limitations, and I still love the quality of it and it's amazing what this small sensor can do, the images it produces are great. Obviously I'm not expecting its small camera to shoot RAW video, and yes, I'm a photographer and videographer and I have studied image formats, compression, bitrate, codecs, etc and I know how they work. My point is that due to the internal image processing of the Mavic when sharpness is in a negative value the shadows get software-defocused. This is clearly a bug, man, there's no camera out there that does that. By setting the sharpness at -3 we should be getting a less processed image with less artifact and noise, and not so tack-sharp. As shown, the sensor is capable of seeing the detail, so why is it messing things up post-processing? As I said, you can shoot with positive sharpness and get the detail in those dark areas, just because the sensor is capable of seeing it, the downside is the artifacts and noise you get because of this digital sharpening effect. In the image I'm posting below (taken from a 4k video I took)  you can clearly see that the top part of the mountain is sharp and the shadowed part is all messed up and blurry. Why is that? Why can't we get the detail? The border of the lake, the small road and the areas with contrast/well exposed have sharpness, while the dark areas are blurry. I don't think I'm being so exagerated about this, I really think it's a bug and that it could be easily corrected, and I expect someone on this forum to try it for themselves and see if it happens to them.
2.jpg
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rick39
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Stills grabbed from video are a great asset but setting up a video camera for stills photography would create poor video. But it's worse than that! Lets say this was shot at 24fps. At this framerate you cannot expect the same resolution as you would shooting the equivalent image as a still image .There aren't many dedicated stills cameras that can achieve such frame rates per second. The average DSLR doesn't have the processing power or memory buffer to achieve much more than say 5 fps, as the amount of data captured as a still image is far greater than a single frame from an equivalent video camera.
I'm not having a go at you, and this is only my humble opinion of what I believe to be true in answer to your original question as to whether anyone else has this problem. I still maintain it's a question of file format compression as evidenced in your .jpg and RAW images posted earlier.
2017-1-12
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Ex Machina
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Impossible J Posted at 2017-1-11 22:38
Are we assuming that "-3" is the same thing as off? Is it possible that negative values actually introduce pixel blurring/interpolation in low-contrast areas intentionally? I would think "0-0-0" would be the neutral or "off" setting. Too bad none of this stuff is documented (looking at you, DJI).

I rather suspect 0-0-0 is DJI's default sharpness/contrast/saturation settings -- making negative numbers result in blurring would require extra work on the part of DJI rather than just operating on the output of the sensor.

I'm guessing the OP's running into the limits of the sensor's dynamic range. Even my m43 camera's much larger sensor turns detail to mush at lower light levels.
2017-1-12
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Ex Machina
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Ex Machina Posted at 2017-1-12 18:26
I rather suspect 0-0-0 is DJI's default sharpness/contrast/saturation settings -- making negative numbers result in blurring would require extra work on the part of DJI rather than just operating on the output of the sensor.

I'm guessing the OP's running into the limits of the sensor's dynamic range. Even my m43 camera's much larger sensor turns detail to mush at lower light levels.

After taking a closer look at the two jpgs and re-reading the original post, I'm thinking what the OP may be seeing is the difference in sharpness applied to the jpg with OP's custom settings  of -3/-3/-3 vs. whatever sharpness/contrast/saturation level was applied to the RAW file in post processing, combined with DJI's default and possibly aggressive jpg compression levels -- dark and blurry content does not fair well at all in jpg compression.

The red dots may be sensor noise, or just a weird rando glitch -- has anyone else seen posts about red dots before? Any of your other lower-light jpg showing these dots, OP?

Finally, I think the OP's lake video frame grab is showing both the dynamic range limits of the Mavic's sensor combined with video compression artifacts in the darker areas. It might be improved with lower FPS and higher throughput rates if the OP has not already chosen these settings.

2017-1-12
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D.Walls
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Ex Machina Posted at 2017-1-12 18:56
After taking a closer look at the two jpgs and re-reading the original post, I'm thinking what the OP may be seeing is the difference in sharpness applied to the jpg with OP's custom settings  of -3/-3/-3 vs. whatever sharpness/contrast/saturation level was applied to the RAW file in post processing, combined with DJI's default and possibly aggressive jpg compression levels -- dark and blurry content does not fair well at all in jpg compression.

The red dots may be sensor noise, or just a weird rando glitch -- has anyone else seen posts about red dots before? Any of your other lower-light jpg showing these dots, OP?

Thanks everyone for your interest in this thread. From now on I'll be shooting on 0 sharpness. Yesterday I uninstalled DJI GO 4 and installed the regular DJI GO app on my Android and I got Art picture profile back, so I'll be shooting on that. I think in that settings the Mavic really shines.
2017-1-13
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ReinisK
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Yes, this looks exactly like the thing I just posted about. Will have to test, but it seems that you've found the solution.
I'm very glad you did this, made my evening quite a bit better
2017-1-24
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D.Walls
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ReinisK Posted at 2017-1-24 08:50
Yes, this looks exactly like the thing I just posted about. Will have to test, but it seems that you've found the solution.
I'm very glad you did this, made my evening quite a bit better

I'm glad to hear that I helped, man. Cheers.
2017-1-25
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Artillery
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I have read all of this thread and I tend to agree with D.Walls. I even have my mavic set to  0,0,0 and Im finding defocused areas in my video work as soon as the light is slightly lower of flat. At first I thought it was user error and out of focus but it is not. Are we saying that no matter how I set up my camera I will always have my video media compressed by jpg/mp4 in a way that means it can compress one area of the frame differently to another area of the frame depending on its contrast and exposure of those pixels? You can see in my shot which I feel has plenty of light that the cliffs alone are completely blurry and alomost look like they are masked off with the sharpness returning as soon as it meets the horizon points or the beach
[img]https://forum44.djicdn.com/data/attachment/forum/.[/img]

2017-3-22
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Artillery
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Artillery Posted at 2017-3-22 08:58
I have read all of this thread and I tend to agree with D.Walls. I even have my mavic set to  0,0,0 and Im finding defocused areas in my video work as soon as the light is slightly lower of flat. At first I thought it was user error and out of focus but it is not. Are we saying that no matter how I set up my camera I will always have my video media compressed by jpg/mp4 in a way that means it can compress one area of the frame differently to another area of the frame depending on its contrast and exposure of those pixels? You can see in my shot which I feel has plenty of light that the cliffs alone are completely blurry and alomost look like they are masked off with the sharpness returning as soon as it meets the horizon points or the beach
[view_image][/img]

mavic example.jpg
2017-3-22
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fans316395d0
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i think i know what the problem is: the mavic camera will record in a limited color profile, meaning 16-234 in stead of 0-255 colors. so darker colors are all mashed up in one color decreasing resolution. same with highlights. all depends where the mean is and how it is exposed. but this explains your example.
2017-4-29
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morpheus2480
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This youtube vid explains what is going on here

https://youtu.be/ZEQvOAsY6ks
2017-5-30
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