Kirk2579 Posted at 2017-1-27 21:58
after that suggestion you post a small book in answer

you are an attention hound and love that folks are talking to you.

What suggestion?  What book?

Who even are you? You people with negative comments are just coming out of the woodwork and it's not just me, my inbox is full of people saying "there are a lot of trolls here, just ignore it bro" but I refuse to believe that all these people, like you, are trolls.

I am FAR from an attention hound. I hate this thread and half of the posts in it. I have been defending myself, for some reason that I have no idea why, from accusations based in nothing.

I admit that I write too much but that's because I have a manic mind and type fast and that can sometimes lead to long-winded posts.

My posting in here is not the sad thing, believe me. I have given to the RC community much more than I have taken. I have made many videos to help people, and this and the PP thread is the only time I posted something to try and GET help with something and I did, but not without fending off a bunch of ridiculous posts based in nothing and for nothing, including this one.

If I'm the attention hound, then why would you post that? The only reason I am posting this is because you aimed your criticism at me but if I was someone watching someone else that I thought was "sad, and an attention hound", I wouldn't post it.

I would imagine you don't even see the irony in that you did.

ArtistFirst Posted at 2017-1-29 12:08
What suggestion?  What book?

Who even are you? You people with negative comments are just coming out of the woodwork and it's not just me, my inbox is full of people saying "there are a lot of trolls here, just ignore it bro" but I refuse to believe that all these people, like you, are trolls.

If you don't like what you are reading, then stop posting and this thread will die.

ArtisiFirst, do you have news ?
I would like to know if you received some information, and at the end we can know what happened

Bullflyer Posted at 2017-1-30 09:23
ArtisiFirst, do you have news ?
I would like to know if you received some information, and at the end we can know what happened

I will let you know what they tell me when they do.

Thanks for the concern.

Sorry have not read entire thread so may have already been mentioned.

But is it possible that barometric pressure in the area had decreased slightly between your first and last (crash) flight? Slightly lower barometric pressure (day warming up?) would result in the P4P flying at a slightly lower altitude??? Just a guess

EPT160 Posted at 2017-1-31 01:12
Sorry have not read entire thread so may have already been mentioned.

But is it possible that barometric pressure in the area had decreased slightly between your first and last (crash) flight? Slightly lower barometric pressure (day warming up?) would result in the P4P flying at a slightly lower altitude??? Just a guess

Could be.
Barometer reads air pressure, and at the same altitude (AGL) in the same place, if the pressure has changed and the barometer is not corrected, the altitud is not the same. If the air pressure is higher and you are exactly at the same altitud (AGL) the barometer reads lower altitud, but you really are at the same altitud you were before the pressure changed.But I don't know how the barometer works in these Phantoms.

Bullflyer Posted at 2017-1-31 16:54
Could be.
Barometer reads air pressure, and at the same altitude (AGL) in the same place, if the pressure has changed and the barometer is not corrected, the altitud is not the same. If the air pressure is higher and you are exactly at the same altitud (AGL) the barometer reads lower altitud, but you really are at the same altitud you were before the pressure changed.But I don't know how the barometer works in these Phantoms.

Barometer's are used to measure the rate of change of pressure as height increase, and so present height information, so maybe not barometer reading wrong height...

hallmark007 Posted at 2017-1-31 17:07
Barometer's are used to measure the rate of change of pressure as height increase, and so present height information, so maybe not barometer reading wrong height...

The rate  of change of pressure is readed by variometer.  Barometer only reads instant air pressure.

Bullflyer Posted at 2017-1-31 17:36
The rate  of change of pressure is readed by variometer.  Barometer only reads instant air pressure.

I think you will find there is no variometer in a P4.

EPT160 Posted at 2017-1-31 01:12
Sorry have not read entire thread so may have already been mentioned.

But is it possible that barometric pressure in the area had decreased slightly between your first and last (crash) flight? Slightly lower barometric pressure (day warming up?) would result in the P4P flying at a slightly lower altitude??? Just a guess

Never considered that.  

Don't really know the science to what you're suggesting but the "slightly lower" part, is 60 feet or so slight?

Pretty significant but I have no idea, again, about the science of which you speak but thanks for the thought. I will do a little researching.  I am still waiting for DJI to get back to me on what they see.  They are in the "assessment" stage at the moment.

Thanks for the input!

Bullflyer Posted at 2017-1-31 16:54
Could be.
Barometer reads air pressure, and at the same altitude (AGL) in the same place, if the pressure has changed and the barometer is not corrected, the altitud is not the same. If the air pressure is higher and you are exactly at the same altitud (AGL) the barometer reads lower altitud, but you really are at the same altitud you were before the pressure changed.But I don't know how the barometer works in these Phantoms.

You guys have gone beyond my pay grade on this one.

Bullflyer Posted at 2017-1-31 17:36
The rate  of change of pressure is readed by variometer.  Barometer only reads instant air pressure.

You see? Literally the first time I have heard the word variometer. LOL.

Sounds like something that Willy Wonka makes candy with.  mmmm, chocolate.  

Bullflyer Posted at 2017-1-31 17:36
The rate  of change of pressure is readed by variometer.  Barometer only reads instant air pressure.

A variometer – also known as a rate of climb and descent indicator (RCDI), rate-of-climb indicator, vertical speed

hallmark007 Posted at 2017-1-31 17:38
I think you will find there is no variometer in a P4.

Of course, there is a Barometer that reads instant air pressure instead of rate of change of pressure as you said

ArtistFirst Posted at 2017-1-31 17:41
You see? Literally the first time I have heard the word variometer. LOL.

Sounds like something that Willy Wonka makes candy with.  mmmm, chocolate.

I somehow don't think your problem is linked to variometer, since there is not one in P4 , but you never know, hopefully dji will enlighten us all.

hallmark007 Posted at 2017-2-1 07:05
I somehow don't think your problem is linked to variometer, since there is not one in P4 , but you never know, hopefully dji will enlighten us all.

It would be interesting for us, if someone from Dji explains how the barometer works.
And how is it corrected when the atmospheric pressure changes. Could be via GPS or via VPS ?
I think we need this information, we could open a thread about this.

Bullflyer Posted at 2017-2-1 08:43
It would be interesting for us, if someone from Dji explains how the barometer works.
And how is it corrected when the atmospheric pressure changes. Could be via GPS or via VPS ?
I think we need this information, we could open a thread about this.

Yes your right, there is a lack of info on a lot of this stuff, and it only leads to people speculating and guessing what to do usually people tell you to calibrate but only because they no , no better.
A simple list of what components are in the body of the machine and a simple explanation of each components relationship to the machine.

If you put up a thread i.e. What does IMU do in these aircraft, you will get so many different answers, and there is no real reference to go to explain, so some will get it right and some will get it wrong so you are left with confusion.

A guy put a thread up on Mavic no so long ago saying to calibrate your IMU , because it's the only thing that will keep you in the air if gps fails, so ridiculous, but other members were inclined to accept this as a rule,
And if you put your two pence in you run the risk of being shot down, so with no clear reference or answers to these questions, you end up with a whole lot of headless chickens. So yes maybe a new thread might help.

Interesting reading

http://www.phantompilots.com/thr ... or-barometer.51568/

http://forum.dji.com/thread-22311-1-1.html

Thermographer Posted at 2017-2-1 10:02
Interesting reading

http://www.phantompilots.com/threads/altitude-detection-gps-or-barometer.51568/

Congratulations on the MEGA thread !,
Man I think if you actually invested your time into productive work instead of typing the entire novel how you crashed your drone, by now  you would probably already earn enough money to buy a new bird lol

Heniek W Posted at 2017-2-1 11:42
Congratulations on the MEGA thread !,
Man I think if you actually invested your time into productive work instead of typing the entire novel how you crashed your drone, by now  you would probably already earn enough money to buy a new bird lol

I have enough money to buy a new bird.

In fact, since I have crashed, I have bought two birds and am waiting to pull the trigger on a decked out I2.

SkyMenories. I was wondering the same but I had never had that happen before and I've flown there for years. Certainly possible.

ArtistFirst Posted at 2017-2-2 02:06
SkyMenories. I was wondering the same but I had never had that happen before and I've flown there for years. Certainly possible.

I just stumbled across this thread and would like to ask if you checked sun spot activity at the time of your flight. I ask this because I just retired from operating the MQ-9 Predator and we had to take this into our flight planning for every flight. I have seen very abnormal behavior because of this. Just a thought as this could screw up your GPS.

ArtistFirst Posted at 2017-1-31 17:39
Never considered that.  

Don't really know the science to what you're suggesting but the "slightly lower" part, is 60 feet or so slight?

Yes apparently so. Sixty feet is possible over time.

Read through 'Thermographers' second linked thread on this point (five posts above).

I read most of the comments on this thread but noticed there was too much to read but just wanted to ask a simple question.

Why didn't the obstacle avoidance kick in and stop the P4 in its tracks? Did you turned off?

Sorry again if someone already asked this question as i did a CTRL F for "obstacle and didn't get a hit after 4 characters.

This thread just won't die.

....I still blame my ex -wife for all  my problems .  If you had one, and maybe you do, I'm sure we will get along famously !

I love telling the same story : again !

Pilot error + denial = sympathy

If ya don't know where to find the definition ;

I can show you where to find it !  

We also had  YEARS of experience ....WOW

fans68580a3f Posted at 2017-2-2 22:17
I just stumbled across this thread and would like to ask if you checked sun spot activity at the time of your flight. I ask this because I just retired from operating the MQ-9 Predator and we had to take this into our flight planning for every flight. I have seen very abnormal behavior because of this. Just a thought as this could screw up your GPS.

Yes I had wondered about sun spot activity as the cause.

However more likely that a black cat had crossed your path that day or maybe you had walked under a ladder?

I know on the evening that I pointed at the moon the next day when I went out flying my P4P+ I had the dreaded high wind alert message. This is the only time I've ever had this message so I know it had something to do with the pointing at the moon thing.  I think next time ill try throwing a pinch of salt over my shoulder to ward off any bad luck - it usually works.

The_Death_Angel Posted at 2017-2-3 03:23
I read most of the comments on this thread but noticed there was too much to read but just wanted to ask a simple question.

Why didn't the obstacle avoidance kick in and stop the P4 in its tracks? Did you turned off?

OA was on. I can't really blame it for not working. If you watch the video, it just nipped the tip of the tree and the tree was a leafless one and the top of it.  I certainly wish it would have.

I hate my Typhoon H but the OA on it seems to work better and it would have worked.  Of course the OA on the H makes the thing crawl so it's pointless.

But yeah, OA was on but I wouldn't ever bet that it would work in that situation  It needs a more solid structure to recognize. Ironically, if it were lower on the tree and had more of the actual tree to look at, it might have kicked in.

@fans6850a3f, what do you mean sun spot activity and how it could apply towards screwing up the GPS?  First I've hear of it and have no idea what it even means, let alone what contributing factor it may or may not have had. Thanks for the input!

REDBARON0 Posted at 2017-2-3 07:29
This thread just won't die.

....I still blame my ex -wife for all  my problems .  If you had one, and maybe you do, I'm sure we will get along famously !

Yawn already with this.  I just deleted a whole post directed at you once aghain, just saying nothing for nothing. But I am deleting the post and am just going to say, the therad would be dead if it wasn't for people commenting and then you as usual coming once again to say your baseless claim.  The fact of the matter is that I am a control freak when I fly so I blame myself no matter what the other contributing factors may or may not have been and I care about the money it will or wont cost me to repair it much less than the annoyance that you and AlecW have provided throught this thread. Get a new job.

PhantomPhil Posted at 2017-2-3 09:41
Yes I had wondered about sun spot activity as the cause.

However more likely that a black cat had crossed your path that day or maybe you had walked under a ladder?

Ha!  Luck is certainly a factor when it comes to these things. If you watch the video, I could have been LITERALLY 2 feet in either direction (other than down) and I would have missed it.

Hell, even down might have saved it because it would have been more in view for the OA.

As promised, I am going to give you guys info as I get it.

They have not made a determination yet as to whether or not it will be covered because although I sent them all the info I have, that flight (the crash) won't sync so I have to send them my flight record before they make a final determination as they are just working off of the logs that I sent them via HealthyDrones which is all I had because it won't sync.

Either way, the damage assessment isn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be.  Of course, these are wholesale prices, and the 3 in 1 flight board which retails near like $300 is a lot less. Then a couple hours of labor and the whole damage is only, amazingly $361. I will let you know what they determine as far as cause of crash as soon as they are done analyzing.  If it wasn't for the 3 in 1 component (Part 52) being damaged I would have escaped with relatively little damage considering how far it fell. Pretty amazed.  If I would have been able to get it out of the tree, I think the yaw motor would have been the only damage, if that.  Props to DJI on the cost regardless of whether I have to pay it or not.  They certainly don't jack up the cost to retail when repairing.  I thought for sure it would be near totaled.  Without the flight board and labor, it would have only been $107 but I guess there is the flight board and labor so $361 is the worst case scenario.  I'll post their result when I hear it, probably next week.

tem        Quantity        Unit Price（USD）        Total Price（USD）
Phantom4 central cover component        1        8.00        8.00
Phantom4 top cover        1        6.00        6.00
Yaw-axis Motor        1        12.00        12.00
Phantom 4 Roll-shaft bracket V03        1        6.00        6.00
Phantom 4 3-in-1 board component        1        189.00        189.00
Phantom4 right landing gear component        1        10.00        10.00
Service Charge        2        65.00/H        130.00
Freight:                        0.00
Total Amount:                        361.00
DJI Care deduction：                        0.00
Total Payment:                        361.00

ArtistFirst Posted at 2017-2-3 14:07
As promised, I am going to give you guys info as I get it.

They have not made a determination yet as to whether or not it will be covered because although I sent them all the info I have, that flight (the crash) won't sync so I have to send them my flight record before they make a final determination as they are just working off of the logs that I sent them via HealthyDrones which is all I had because it won't sync.

That looks pretty good, and they don't seem to be charging you shipping. Good luck..

ArtistFirst Posted at 2017-2-3 10:55
OA was on. I can't really blame it for not working. If you watch the video, it just nipped the tip of the tree and the tree was a leafless one and the top of it.  I certainly wish it would have.

I hate my Typhoon H but the OA on it seems to work better and it would have worked.  Of course the OA on the H makes the thing crawl so it's pointless.

Sun spots can and will interfere with satellite signals, most of the time it is only for a few seconds but sometimes can last several minutes. Your phantom needs several satellites to stay the course. If you do a google search you can find several articles on it. Doesn't take much of a signal lost to mess up your nav. Hope this helps.

^^^Interssting. It was certainly a sunny day. Didn't know that. Thanks for it.

hallmark007 Posted at 2017-2-3 14:15
That looks pretty good, and they don't seem to be charging you shipping. Good luck..

Well I suppose that would change if they deem myself at fault.  Hope you're right though.

FINAL RESULT:

As promised again, I am just filling you guys in on my interactions with DJI.

After reviewing my records, they have come to the agreement that there was something wrong (nobody knows what) as to what caused the WayPoint mission to go off course and lower to the point of danger that it crashed into the tree.  The gentleman that called me reminded me that, per the agreement, when flying in WayPoint mode, it is the end user who is ultimately responsible for overseeing what is happening and therefore some of the blame, regardless falls on me which seems rational enough.

Quite fairly, and to my amazement and agreement, without even me asking, they aren't charging me for shipping, nor for labor and just the wholesale cost of the parts which I promptly agreed to do. Sort of splitting the difference on fault with which is totally cool by me.

I must say, I am quite impressed, not only with their desire to help, fairness, kindness, but also their attention to speed.  When they say they will call back on X, they do.

I found the experience to be quite painless and considering all the damage that was done to my beloved Phantom 4, I am quite pleased with the final result out of my pocket which is $231 so they actually lowered me from the $360 or so it was to the $231 without me even asking so I said thank you and made the payment and hopefully will have my bird back shortly and seemed to escape a rather costly crash at a rather un-costly price.  

I am pleased! Thank you DJI.
         


This was the final e-mail I got, and that was after they called me directly.  Their support was top notch.  I cannot complain about a thing.
_________________________________

Dear Customer,

You repair service of Phantom 4 has been quoted by our repair team. Please refer to the invoice below and complete your payment via Paypal.

Invoice

Customer:        
Case No:        
DJI Care Balance：        
Quote Date:        02-08-17
Remarks:        Activating at customer request.

Item        Quantity        Unit Price（USD）        Total Price（USD）
Phantom 4 Roll-shaft bracket V03        1        6.00        6.00
Phantom4 central cover component        1        8.00        8.00
Yaw-axis Motor        1        12.00        12.00
Phantom4 top cover        1        6.00        6.00
Phantom 4 3-in-1 board component        1        189.00        189.00
Phantom4 right landing gear component        1        10.00        10.00
Service Charge        2        65.00/H        130.00
Freight:                        0.00
Total Amount:                        361.00
Discount:                        -130.00
DJI Care deduction：                        0.00
Total Payment:                        231.00

Payment by Paypal:    Payment Links

Please make sure Your Case No. is included in your Payment Information when completing your transaction.

This is an automated message. Any replies to this message will not be monitored.

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact DJI North America Technical Support, Mon-Fri 9:00AM - 5:00PM (PST) via the following three channels:

Tel: +1 (818) 235 0789
Email: support.us@dji.com
Online Support: Online Support

Thank you for choosing DJI

Best Regards,
DJI Support

This should wrap up this thread.

I am a very happy with the outcome because I have a bird that flies well and takes a great image as my last one did.

I did get a different bird rather than a repaired version of mine which made me a little nervous because I have two P4s and the one that got in the accident was my favorite of the two.  I would imagine I just have to get the lens focused on the other.

But I got it back in rather quick time, I found support to be very communicative and fair. I still don't know how or why it crashed into the tree, and I would have paid twice the amount I did to know that but I will be much more careful for future WP missions and probably just use Litchi for future ones although, as I said, they did sort of split the difference with me and I got away with only paying $271 and they covered shipping and labor so I am happy with that.

All in all, (with some exception in this thread ;) ), I am very pleased with the outcome and the support, contrary to what I've been told has been magnificent and I even got some things that i thought I would have to wait on for my I2 pushed through even faster so I really could not be much happier.

Back to my point on the bird being as good as the one I turned in even though I was afraid it would not be since it's a different unit, I am going to suggest that either people need to work on their settings or maybe need a focus on their lens because I often get "How did you get your image to look that good using D-Log, I can never" and I never had an answer. Now that I have got the second bird, and am able to use my settings to get as quality an image as I was with my other and I still have one that looks a little better than the other, I can only imagine that there the lens needs to be refocussed, and I am hoping that it's only that on the other bird.  Unfortunately, with the P4 running it's course out on me now, and I with the Mavic and soon to be I2, I can't imagine spending the money to tune up my other P4.
I have enoyed and still enjoy the P4.  It's a wonderful platform and even my unfocused P4 still is 10x better than the Yuneec Typhoon H and maybe on par with Yuneec's flagship H920 Tornado, which is sort of amazing, I will end that I just absolutely love the p4 (and the Phantom in general) platform and it will forever hold a place in my heart and indeed history of photographic UAS technology.  No matter what happens, it will always be the first really good bird for aerial photographers.  The future is bright and again, I have been heartened by DJI's performance as a company as well.  Once you get to the person that knows what they are talking about, you get what you need to know and they are super fast. I am not sure where the "slow response" mantra comes from. I had to do no pushing and it came in and out about as fast a I would imagine it could.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts, suggestions, and effort.  You guys are great!

Happy flying and fly safe!



Adam