Reading trhough many of the threads on this site there seems to be v arious opnions as to what our Phantom, or indeed and drone, really is. That is also true or the wider world. Many call it an expensive toy, which if that were the case why should there be so many regulations. others, rightly in my opinion, call it a small aircraft, but many never treat it as such. Flying can be a dangerous game, whether doing it live or via remote control. To be a pilot in any situation requires that you take the responsibility for the maachine you are controlling.
So what are others opinions on this. is it a toy or small, but very serious, aircraft?

In the U.S. the DJI line of drones are defined as a Small Unmanned Aerial Systems (sUAS). This is, by definition, an aircraft. The rules in place (in the U.S.) are an attempt to ensure safety of individuals not part of the flight operation and the safety of manned aircraft operations. The sUAS is a small aircraft that requires a base level of knowledge to fly, an intermediate level of knowledge to understand why it performs the way it does and an advanced level of knowledge to understand or be able to find the rules and regulations that pertain to the operation at hand.

Haven't you heard that old saying:  "The only difference between men and boys are the price of their toys"

I suspect you wouldn't let a child play with your Phantom, would you?

Thats a new one on me but I get what you are saying.

AlecW Posted at 2017-1-31 07:14
My P4 is just a cheapish sub $1000 plastic toy camera to me.  My definition of a toy is something I bought purely to 'play' with.  That doesn't mean I don't respect guidelines and rules or understand the consequences of operating it dangerously.  

Another example is the jeep in my aviator, pure toy, it's got about ~25K$ of mods into it, it's 9 years old with only 25,000 miles on the clock mostly off-road use and I follow the rules so it's street legal in at least the State I live in.

Badass Jeep bro unfortunately all I can afford are axial rock crawlers and I'm building and painting a body for my girlfriend the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon my girl just wants a Jeep so bad she's trying to save up for it

Personally my view of a toy would kind of coincide with the two pound rule from the FAA the ones I call toys are my Syma xc5 and my my mini hubsan X4 you can slam your fingers in the propeller and not even get a bruise but I would never do that with my Phantom. With my Phantoms or other 450 class even my 250 racing drone I take special care when flying them all that qualify have an FAA number also I have my AMA membership which I recommend because of the insurance and the knowledge you can get from people flying sites not so much I've been new with you and they kind of sun drone operators didn't kick me out gave me a place to fly but I could tell it was the red headed step child to them

embayweather Posted at 2017-1-31 06:48
Thats a new one on me but I get what you are saying.

I'd classify something that could give great personal harm less of a toy yes people called all kinds of things expensive toys but you wouldn't let your kid jump in your four by four and run someone over

AlecW Posted at 2017-1-31 07:35
My daughter used to drive my jeep on trails for years before she was old enough to get drivers license   https://www.facebook.com/alec.wallis/media_set?set=a.3657480710786.2129680.1087666518&type=3

Obviously I was with her and showed her how to drive etc.

I do llike your Jeep, toy or not, but the picture does remind me of the roads here in the UK. Thats why I got a 4x4 myself, and its big enough to haul the mobility scooter around. They are not toys either but you can have a lot of fun with them.

Dji put 18+ on the side of the Phantom box.
So it might not be for kids......but perhaps for big kids.

It's a serious and feature rich RC aircraft, that can be considered a toy, but really is a craft enabling us to feel the thrill of flight. In that respect, would you call a real aircraft a toy? It is used for recreational flying by many - just like drones are. But I would really not classify it as a toy, just as a motorcycle, a sports car, or other such device. It really is a serious craft that requires responsible use and carries consequences with it - sometimes more far reaching than just the cost of the drone.

The Phantom 4 is definitely an Aircraft.    (Small unmanned Aircraft)  SUA      

Hobby grade drones, like the Phantom family and larger sizes, aren't toys. ;-)

There needs to be a distinction... Perhaps eventual RC drone licensing will differentiate that...


RedHotPoker

QiiFlight Posted at 2017-1-31 06:30
In the U.S. the DJI line of drones are defined as a Small Unmanned Aerial Systems (sUAS). This is, by definition, an aircraft. The rules in place (in the U.S.) are an attempt to ensure safety of individuals not part of the flight operation and the safety of manned aircraft operations. The sUAS is a small aircraft that requires a base level of knowledge to fly, an intermediate level of knowledge to understand why it performs the way it does and an advanced level of knowledge to understand or be able to find the rules and regulations that pertain to the operation at hand.

QiiFlight, I think you have described it the best.  Also, I cannot think of a toy that the Federal Goverment requires you to register..

Of course the Phantom is a toy. Then again, it all depends on how you want to define "toy." Since it does fly through the air under its own power, it is also (by definition) an aircraft.

If you define toy as something completely harmless and only suitable for young children, then the Phantom would not qualify, That, for most adults, would be an overly narrow definition of "toy." I don't do commercial work with my Phantom. I am a hobbyist and I use it to take video for my own personal enjoyment. It isn't for work and it isn't for commercial pursuit... it is used for leisure purposes and therefore a (expensive) toy.

There are plenty of "toys" on the market that are not suitable for children and must be used responsibly. The word "toy" does not remove the need for responsible use. Too many people get hung up on semantics. Doesn't matter what the label is... you look at what it does, what it can do and act accordingly.

TOY-ota....

I have a TOYota RAV4 myself, and certainly not a toy, although the way some folk drive nowadays you would think they were playing with a toy. Am I getting old to say things like that?
I started the post not becasue of semantics but because of an interest in how people see their drone. I see it as a small aircraft and intend to treat it as such, including the extra 'burden' of regular maintenance, flying safely, record keeping and so on. For my insurance cover I have to do that anyway, but I want to do it so I can take pride in my use of the equipment.

Just for fun... here is _one_ of the dictionary definitions of "toy."

something that serves for or as if for diversion, rather than for serious practical use.


my computer's built in dictionary gives this definition:

an object, especially a gadget or machine, regarded as providing amusement for an adult: in 1914, the car was still a rich man's toy.

For many users, the Phantom would fit these definitions.

I understand where you are coming from, but your question is based on a false premise.  As you state, your RAV is not a toy "although the way some folk drive nowadays..."  What you are doing is to equate the use of the word "toy" with irresponsible use/behavior. You question presumes that you are responsible because you consider your RAV4 a "vehicle," while someone who calls theirs a "toy" or "the enforcer" or "Eleanor Roosevelt" is automatically irresponsible.

That's where the confusion comes in. I have many possessions that I consider "toys." Many of them are capable of causing considerably more damage than my Phantom. That does NOT mean I use any in a dangerous or irresponsible way, as your original question would imply.

Your original question was not really a "toy" vs "aircraft" use/terminology. What you meant was how many people act responsibly vs not. It's a valid question, and I am sure there are many who do dumb things (just look at YouTube). But phrasing it as "toy" vs "aircraft" is not an accurate depiction and causes misunderstanding (as if the internet doesn't have enough misunderstanding).

Myt question was based on teh confusion prevalent in teh interweb, and indeed a lot of other channels too. Many use the word toy to describe Phantom sized drones, whilst many consider Phantom sized drones as serious bits of kit. i was simply trying to get a users point of view, I was not particularly interested in definitions. No I also do not equate irresponsible use with the word toys, I never have done and nevr will. my children played with toys, and in my mind it is clear what a toy is. I was suggesting that certainly over here, many supposedly grown up folk, still carry on playing with cars as opposed to treating them with respect. My daughter was nearly killed in an RTC a few years back, and having worked for many years in a clincial position I know what damage can be done.
So I am very clear what my question was meant to elicit, what other people viewed them as amongst the Phantom owning population.

Drones are toys if you think they are.

I think its based off of how its used like my air 3 I use it for photography trying to get a part 107 so I can get into real estate photography that would make it not a toy in my case but someone else could buy it just so they can zip around the sky at almost 50 mph(air 3 top speed). I would say the most "toy" drone DJI has made is the avata, its cheap, fast, and looks like its fun to fly. then again its based off of how you use it because the avata could also be good for cinematography with its flight characteristics. for the most part its just how you use it.