I have this issue with my new P4 Pro+

It would appear there is something on the sensor. It has been there from the start, but is not noticable at wide open apertures.

The spot is very apparent on video as well, obviously.

I have carefully cleaned both sides of the filter as well as the lens itself, but it made no difference.

Anyone seen anything like this before?

(Hopie I have attached the images correctly, 5 stills taken between f/3.5 and f/10)

lens cleaner they have a pen type works good

Did this develop over time or did it come out of the box like that?

So that spot is internal, and not on the front element?

Was going to suggest cleaning it gently, & a lens cap, if it's external...


RedHotPoker

If this was a DSLR, it would be dust on the sensor.  The fact that it gets worse when you stop down is exactly how it happens with a DSLR.  Considering you already cleaned the lens and it didn't work, this is more than likely something from the factory.  Since its not a DSLR where we change lenses and hence have access to the sensor, I see nothing you can do for it other than having it replaced.

DJI-Jamie Posted at 2017-2-1 22:39
Did this develop over time or did it come out of the box like that?

It appears in some of the early pictures and videos I took. Because I tend to favour aperture priority as a metering method, and had set it for f/4, the spot can be hard to see.

I am pretty sure this is on the sensor or an internal element of the lens.

That's got to be frustrating, and so very noticeable. Not something that could be ignored.

Hope you get it cleaned and back to taking more awesome pics...


RedHotPoker

Dust on the sensor will result with clearly defined, sharp edged spot no matter what aperture settings are. This bugger sits somewhere on lens optics, exposed more as the aperture opening goes smaller and the depth of field increases

Dobmatt Posted at 2017-2-2 01:52
Dust on the sensor will result with clearly defined, sharp edged spot no matter what aperture settings are. This bugger sits somewhere on lens optics, exposed more as the aperture opening goes smaller and the depth of field increases

Is that first hand experience or hear-say?

This is definitely a tiny dust-spot directly on your sensor, you would NOT see any dust-spot on an internal lens element at all, unless they are huge. If you're lucky snipping the camera slightly with your finger gets the spot fall off the sensor, but usually they are held there by a static-load. If you can't get it off with slight mechanical influence I'm afraid the only way to get it off is send it in.

Dobmatt Posted at 2017-2-2 01:52
Dust on the sensor will result with clearly defined, sharp edged spot no matter what aperture settings are. This bugger sits somewhere on lens optics, exposed more as the aperture opening goes smaller and the depth of field increases

Actually that's not strictly true. Having used DSLRs for many years I am quite used to cleaning my own sensors. Dust on the sensor is almost impossible to see with a lens wide open and becomes more obvious as you stop down. I know this is slightly counter-intuitive and I didn't quite believe it myself until I experimented.

https://photographylife.com/how-to-spot-dust-on-your-dslr-sensor

That's quite a good article on DSLR sensor pollution.

The frustrating thing about this is that it's obviously a rare occurrence with the sort of camera fitted by DJI. The lens will always be fitted in a very clean environment to avoid exactly this, and remain sealed thereafter.

It seems unlikely that a fix exists without replacing the camera, which will involve returning the whole drone. I am not keen to do that when there seems to be low stock, which could lead to a substantial wait.

I wonder if the introduction of an internal moving part (the mechanical shutter) to the camera, makes this type of thing more likely?  

With so many people now getting ND filters and opening up their cameras to dust this will happen more and more.
A slip on ND filter that does not require you to remove the front lens element has to be better than continually removing this protective shield.

lienbacher Posted at 2017-2-2 05:04
Is that first hand experience or hear-say?

This is definitely a tiny dust-spot directly on your sensor, you would NOT see any dust-spot on an internal lens element at all, unless they are huge. If you're lucky snipping the camera slightly with your finger gets the spot fall off the sensor, but usually they are held there by a static-load. If you can't get it off with slight mechanical influence I'm afraid the only way to get it off is send it in.

This is the right answer.

Phil Harris Posted at 2017-2-2 05:05
Actually that's not strictly true. Having used DSLRs for many years I am quite used to cleaning my own sensors. Dust on the sensor is almost impossible to see with a lens wide open and becomes more obvious as you stop down. I know this is slightly counter-intuitive and I didn't quite believe it myself until I experimented.

https://photographylife.com/how-to-spot-dust-on-your-dslr-sensor

If the filter is clean and the front of lens is clean, then the only way to sort it as you say is to get it replaced.

Phil Harris Posted at 2017-2-2 05:05
Actually that's not strictly true. Having used DSLRs for many years I am quite used to cleaning my own sensors. Dust on the sensor is almost impossible to see with a lens wide open and becomes more obvious as you stop down. I know this is slightly counter-intuitive and I didn't quite believe it myself until I experimented.

https://photographylife.com/how-to-spot-dust-on-your-dslr-sensor

Actually it is true, and this is my first hand experience, a single one by far.  Please read this article again (hair speck on sensor) ...

https://photographylife.com/how-to-spot-dust-on-your-dslr-sensor

Most likely the lens back is polluted with dust. With P3P camera it's relatively easy to remove back cover and reach sensor surface or back of lens optics to examine and careful cleaning. The same should be true with P4 camera, if you're comfortable with a set of precise screwdrivers.  It's a delicate procedure, however, but may render sending the unit for repair unnecessary.   

liningiv Posted at 2017-2-2 09:10
With so many people now getting ND filters and opening up their cameras to dust this will happen more and more.
A slip on ND filter that does not require you to remove the front lens element has to be better than continually removing this protective shield.

I'm not sure we're on the same page, my friend. ND filters (except for the very rare gel type, inserted into a slot BEHIND lens optics - i.e. Panasonic Lumix G Fish Eye) has no way to introduce any dust to camera interior ...

Phil Harris Posted at 2017-2-2 01:32
It appears in some of the early pictures and videos I took. Because I tend to favour aperture priority as a metering method, and had set it for f/4, the spot can be hard to see.

I am pretty sure this is on the sensor or an internal element of the lens.

Since cleaning the lens didn't help, cleaning the sensor would be the next course of action. If you're not able to clean the sensor or do not feel comfortable doing so, you would want to look into sending the unit in for service.

DJI-Jamie Posted at 2017-2-2 13:06
Since cleaning the lens didn't help, cleaning the sensor would be the next course of action. If you're not able to clean the sensor or do not feel comfortable doing so, you would want to look into sending the unit in for service.

Cleaning the sensor, without formal training from DJI might be a bad idea...
It could be scratched, or damaged very easily, making the present condition worse.

It should seriously be sent in, for proper delicate tech repair... ;-)

I recall using a soft brush to clean the focusing screen in my Nikon FE, and it was accidently scratched beyond repair, so it had to be replaced.

RedHotPoker

DJI-Jamie Posted at 2017-2-2 13:06
Since cleaning the lens didn't help, cleaning the sensor would be the next course of action. If you're not able to clean the sensor or do not feel comfortable doing so, you would want to look into sending the unit in for service.

If there is a way to open the camera to clean the sensor, and not invalidate my warranty, I'm all for it.

I have cleaned sensors many times but always on cameras with interchangeable lenses.

RedHotPoker Posted at 2017-2-2 13:57
Cleaning the sensor, without formal training from DJI might be a bad idea...
It could be scratched, or damaged very easily, making the present condition worse.

There are some that feel confident in doing so out of their own experience, and if it's a necessity for the customer to keep the unit in their possession at all costs. I have the same sentiment, but we all all supposed to be adults here (given the 18+ age requirement on the box).

Phil Harris Posted at 2017-2-2 13:58
If there is a way to open the camera to clean the sensor, and not invalidate my warranty, I'm all for it.

I have cleaned sensors many times but always on cameras with interchangeable lenses.

In reality, it would most likely void the warranty, as the only way I can recall getting to the camera is via the back of the camera itself. If the camera establishes any additional issues from the dismantling or if the sensor gets scratched, like RedHotPoker mentioned, then it would definitely void the warranty. I would recommend sending it in to avoid the warranty hassle, but it would ultimately be at your discretion.

DJI-Jamie Posted at 2017-2-2 14:05
There are some that feel confident in doing so out of their own experience, and if it's a necessity for the customer to keep the unit in their possession at all costs. I have the same sentiment, but we all all supposed to be adults here (given the 18+ age requirement on the box).

For the love of God (higher power of your choice) and my drone, I would not venture in... Ha

Yes, I see people tear them down, and build them back up. But that doesn't influence me to follow suit.

Others have more experience delving in, to doing micro surgery too, but as they say, it's not brain surgery or rocket science. I only fear doing the wrong thing, and it costing me more than a proper DJI rep doing the job. But, if they were to send me back a refurbished drone, that would urk me to no end.
So we tend to tread very lightly... ;-)

My Nikon D800 actually has a sensor cleaning function, built in. Much like a windshield wiper. Haha

RedHotPoker

Phil Harris Posted at 2017-2-2 13:58
If there is a way to open the camera to clean the sensor, and not invalidate my warranty, I'm all for it.

I have cleaned sensors many times but always on cameras with interchangeable lenses.

Phil, go for it! Undo these 4 screws, remove the cover and see what's behind. You should see a board secured with another set of screws to the camera frame. Undo these, pry the board off and you should be able to examine both the sensor surface and back of the lens optics. Don't force anything, post pictures here if in doubt, we'll assist you ... Spiritually at least

RedHotPoker Posted at 2017-2-2 14:17
For the love of God (higher power of your choice) and my drone, I would not venture in... Ha

Yes, I see people tear them down, and build them back up. But that doesn't influence me to follow suit.

Smart man!

Dobmatt Posted at 2017-2-2 14:28
Phil, go for it! Undo these 4 screws, remove the cover and see what's behind. You should see a board secured with another set of screws to the camera frame. Undo these, pry the board off and you should be able to examine both the sensor surface and back of the lens optics. Don't force anything, post pictures here if in doubt, we'll assist you ... Spiritually at least

Post a self help video, so we can all see the predictable Mayhem which ensued... ;-)

Double dare!!?? Hahaha


RedHotPoker

DJI-Jamie Posted at 2017-2-2 14:39
Smart man!

Try blindingly brilliant, or real genuine genius, at work over here!! Hahaha

Ok, getting the headlamp on, standing atop an anti static mat, with micro drivers in hand.  

We are going in. ;-)


RedHotPoker

RedHotPoker Posted at 2017-2-2 14:56
Try blindingly brilliant, or real genuine genius, at work over here!! Hahaha

Ok, getting the headlamp on, standing atop an anti static mat, with micro drivers in hand.  

RedHot, you troll , leave the guy alone and let him dive in! Kiddin', of course. My Phantom 3 Pro took the dip once in pristine glacier water, I took the camera apart to see a droplets on sensor surface and back lens glass, blow it gently away with canned air, let it sit in sunny breeze for a while, put everything back together and ... voila! Like nothing happen ...

The Sensor Cleaning on a DSLR (like the D800) is a vibration which shakes the sensor to dislodge dust while it is not  charged.

While I am quite comfortable in sensor cleaning in any of my DSLR's I would be hesitant to do so in one of these cameras. When doing wet or dry sensor clean on a DSLR you are never in contact with the actual sensor itself. It is safely sealed behind the IR filter and it is that which you are actually cleaning. Like most filters it is a specialised piece of precsion glass. It can scartch if you are not careful but with normal precautions most are fine. Diving into the internals of this camera there is a far greater risk of damage and a fair chance you would be cleaning the sensor itself. Far better to let those who have  experience tackle the job, especially as it is most likely covered under warranty.

Dobmatt Posted at 2017-2-2 15:12
RedHot, you troll , leave the guy alone and let him dive in! Kiddin', of course. My Phantom 3 Pro took the dip once in pristine glacier water, I took the camera apart to see a droplets on sensor surface and back lens glass, blow it gently away with canned air, let it sit in sunny breeze for a while, put everything back together and ... voila! Like nothing happen ...

Why you, I oughta... Hahaha
You are a real hoot, and a regular forum gangster. J/K

"Eh", How's it going, my fellow Canadian? Yeah, I wish they would post a Self-help video...


Something along these lines...


Make it easier not to screw it up, or it down!! Haha

RedHotPoker

Dobmatt Posted at 2017-2-2 14:28
Phil, go for it! Undo these 4 screws, remove the cover and see what's behind. You should see a board secured with another set of screws to the camera frame. Undo these, pry the board off and you should be able to examine both the sensor surface and back of the lens optics. Don't force anything, post pictures here if in doubt, we'll assist you ... Spiritually at least

It's something I would certainly take on if the warranty issue wasn't in play.

I also suspect that the addition of the mechanical shutter assembly between lens and sensor would complicate the process significantly.

I clean my DSLR sensors with a gel stick, it works pretty well on my Nikon cameras.

My Leica Q is also showing a few tiny dust spots, that has a fixed lens so it will have to go to Leica for cleaning eventually. That's is less annoying than the P4P because I usually shoot with it wide open, and I don't use it for video.

Cabansail Posted at 2017-2-2 15:13
The Sensor Cleaning on a DSLR (like the D800) is a vibration which shakes the sensor to dislodge dust while it is not  charged.

While I am quite comfortable in sensor cleaning in any of my DSLR's I would be hesitant to do so in one of these cameras. When doing wet or dry sensor clean on a DSLR you are never in contact with the actual sensor itself. It is safely sealed behind the IR filter and it is that which you are actually cleaning. Like most filters it is a specialised piece of precsion glass. It can scartch if you are not careful but with normal precautions most are fine. Diving into the internals of this camera there is a far greater risk of damage and a fair chance you would be cleaning the sensor itself. Far better to let those who have  experience tackle the job, especially as it is most likely covered under warranty.

I wondered why I could never find the windshield washer reservoir? Hahaha




RedHotPoker

Dobmatt Posted at 2017-2-2 15:12
RedHot, you troll , leave the guy alone and let him dive in! Kiddin', of course. My Phantom 3 Pro took the dip once in pristine glacier water, I took the camera apart to see a droplets on sensor surface and back lens glass, blow it gently away with canned air, let it sit in sunny breeze for a while, put everything back together and ... voila! Like nothing happen ...

Missed this earlier.

"blow it gently away with canned air"

Canned Air can be quite risky and can cause damage. It is dry and moves rapidly which can create static charges which can damage sensitive electronics. Sometime things will work for a while and then fail soon after. Best to avoid the stuff in those areas.

Cabansail Posted at 2017-2-2 20:53
Missed this earlier.

"blow it gently away with canned air"

I had suggested using a canned air aerosol to remove dust from a dirty drone, opposed to utilizing a compressor with high pressure nozzle.
Even on low setting. Figuring a canned air resolution, might be more gentle.

This suggestion, I had posted in a different thread...


RedHotPoker

Dobmatt Posted at 2017-2-2 12:18
I'm not sure we're on the same page, my friend. ND filters (except for the very rare gel type, inserted into a slot BEHIND lens optics - i.e. Panasonic Lumix G Fish Eye) has no way to introduce any dust to camera interior ...

Same page.  If you continually take off the front element, and screw on different filters you are opening up the lens and the camera to dust.  Where that dust will end up only time will tel.

liningiv Posted at 2017-2-4 06:14
Same page.  If you continually take off the front element, and screw on different filters you are opening up the lens and the camera to dust.  Where that dust will end up only time will tel.

Just to clarify, what do you call "the front element"? Front filters (of any kind for that matter) are NOT integral elements of lens construction. Modern lenses and cameras itself are designed with intention to be dust proof, more or less efficiently. Therefore the only way to introduce dust particles to the camera INTERIOR is during careless lens replacement. Avoiding this is a very basic instinct of every serious photographer.
Said that ... Yes, the dust itself is a very unpredictable thing and - indeed - it may find it's way to sneak inside camera body. Not inside lens, however. If that will be the issue, the entire business of interchangeable lens camera will look totally different ...

What I am referring to is the "filter", screwed to the front of the camera, which can be removed and replaced with an ND or Polarizing filter.
If this is changed in the field, there is a chance that dust will get into the camera or on the lens front element.
IMHO a better solution to continually removing and changing this "filter", would be to have an additional filter, external to the camera, which will carry out the same function as the screw on NDs or CPs but without the risk of dust injestion or fingerprints and eventual scratches on lens element.

On a serious camera, an SLR, systems have evolved to dislodge and collect dust from the sensor that has been inevitably introduced during lens changes.  Also many SLR lenses will have dust between the elements due to the lens changing length and therefore volume during focussing and or zooming.

liningiv Posted at 2017-2-7 05:35
What I am referring to is the "filter", screwed to the front of the camera, which can be removed and replaced with an ND or Polarizing filter.
If this is changed in the field, there is a chance that dust will get into the camera or on the lens front element.
IMHO a better solution to continually removing and changing this "filter", would be to have an additional filter, external to the camera, which will carry out the same function as the screw on NDs or CPs but without the risk of dust injestion or fingerprints and eventual scratches on lens element.

Have you ever removed that filter? It is not possible for dust to get inside the camera if you remove that, it may only get to the front element, where it can be 1.) easily removed and 2.) will have little to NO impact on the image itself and most certainly not the kind of dust spot you see in the first post. If you manage to scratch the front element while changing the filter I'd be tempted to say you are likely too clumsy to fly a drone. That said, I have little understanding for lens-scratch/dust-panic. I'm a full time photographer and I do not use lens-caps at all, no scratch in a front or back element of any lens in more than 10 years (despite not using caps, I do handle my lenses with care).

I take only stills, so no I have never taken the filter off to fit either a ND or CP filter.
I also own a Canon 5Ds with a complete arsenal of L lenses From 400 down to 24 thank you, so I am quite familiar with handling valuable pieces of glass.

However, I have been a Phantom Flier for 2 years with over 250 incident free flights, and a visitor to this forum for long enough to know that people will force their SD cards in the holder upside down, fail to make sure their batteries are correctly seated, screw the wrong props on the wrong arms, fail to tighten them and myriads of other basic mistakes.  
I imagine that it will not be long before we will see someone who has cross threaded their filters and can't get them on or off, or scratched their lens.  So anything that could stop people spoiling their equipment, like a simple push on/off filter would be a help, or so I thought.  
But there are people who obviously prefer an arguement to simple ideas......

I have the same issue, exactly. It's oil or dust on the sensor, although mine is much smaller than yours is.



This at F/11, but as i work a lot with video is so annoying as it can't be removed. I can't go past F5.6 for safety anymore. The big question is HOW DID THE DUST GOT THERE? Since is completely sealed in the front and in the back?

Phil Harris Posted at 2017-2-2 05:05
Actually that's not strictly true. Having used DSLRs for many years I am quite used to cleaning my own sensors. Dust on the sensor is almost impossible to see with a lens wide open and becomes more obvious as you stop down. I know this is slightly counter-intuitive and I didn't quite believe it myself until I experimented.

https://photographylife.com/how-to-spot-dust-on-your-dslr-sensor

I completely agree with you here.

liningiv Posted at 2017-2-2 09:10
With so many people now getting ND filters and opening up their cameras to dust this will happen more and more.
A slip on ND filter that does not require you to remove the front lens element has to be better than continually removing this protective shield.

Trying to follow what you are saying here.. The UV filter and filters that replace it only cover the front element of the main lens and that lens is actually the seal for the rest of the camera. The risk of contamination of the rest of the camera system SHOULD be nothing if you are only changing the filters which DJI designed to be replaced.. *Should being emphasized because I REALLY hope they aren't counting on the UV filter to keep things out..