Pros or cons for replacing the 57W charger that comes with the Phantom 3 Standard with the 100W version? Seems like a good idea but I'd rather hear from the experts here.



Thanks!

Not an expert, but I bought a second 100w charger for my 4 flight packs.  They charge a bit faster than the 57w model.

It is nice to have the advantage of charging my batteries two at once, or a flight pack and RC. Am unsure about any other benefits.

Did you have any questions or concerns that need to be addressed?

RedHotPoker

Thanks RHP. That's exactly what I was looking for. The choice seemed to be a no-brainer but I didn't want to "assume" without checking with the forum. I'm looking at getting the 100W version to go with the P3 charging hub.
I appreciate your reply.

RockinCR Posted at 2017-2-15 18:44
Thanks RHP. That's exactly what I was looking for. The choice seemed to be a no-brainer but I didn't want to "assume" without checking with the forum. I'm looking at getting the 100W version to go with the P3 charging hub.
I appreciate your reply.

Yes, it's a good choice, faster charging and double the packs, at a time.

Which cuts your charging time in half.

You will likely want another flight pack or two in the future, so it's great to be prepared in advance.


RedHotPoker

The answer lies in the two charger bricks supplied for P3 models ... Standard has the 57W .... but Advanced and Pro have the higher 100W version. Why ? All use the same battery pack.

Its an interesting matter actually as I have tested to see how the charge controller board fitted to the battery acts. Because I prefer using a proper LiPo charger to charge any LiPo ... I upped the amps to just above the rated max ... the charge controller dropped the amps back similar to the 57W level !!!! I also still use the 57W supplied charger and time to charge was near same. So this indicates the 100W charger would only be of benefit if the battery pack was seriously discharged. For normal charging - the amps were limited back to the lower level.

But as RHP says - if you were using a multi battery charge box - then the greater wattage is a serious advantage.

But in reality if you want to charge multiple packs at one time .... then a higher power LiPo charger with HV mode is a far better bet - and price is far more attractive. Why ? Because charging multiple packs at same time divides the charger capability to slow the whole process. The standard LiPo charger allows you to increase the charge rate to compensate and keep a good charge rate to shorten time required.

All info in this post is actual observed tests conducted by myself ... not third hand.

And for those who wish to comment - my proposal invalidates DJI warranty ........... I live in EU and EU has rules against restrictive Warranty clauses that violate Consumers reasonable expectations and rights. A fact that even Microsoft still cannot beat !!

Nigel

May I suggest the following addition to OP's Pros and Cons ...

Use of DJI dumb brick charger :

1. Regulated 17.4V output at CV
2. DJI approved and stipulated.
but
1. Relies on battery charge controller board to regulate input to pack as it charges up.
2. Relies on battery charge controller board to shut off charge to pack at full.
3. No charge info of any description other than alternating LED's on battery face while charging.

Use of general HV LiPo capable charger :

1. Data display to show exactly what is happening during charge - amp rate, voltage level, mAh put in, time charging
2. Charger will terminate if any fault detected.
3. Charger will terminate at full charge point if battery charge controller fails to.
4. Charger is user settable to rate user decides, subject to battery max specification.5. A reliable reputable LiPo HV mode charger is similar priced to DJI brick charger, but capable of charging ALL users batterys of LiPo, LiFe, LiIon, NiMh, NiCd, Lead Acid selaed and unsealed, Gel Cells ....

but
1. Depending on location bought / used - can invalidate DJI Warranty.

Up to user to decide what they do ... I know what I prefer ... to KNOW what's happening with my battery when charging.

Nigel

It's nice to have the advantage of charging two flight packs at the same time, or a flight pack and RC battery.
Which has been recomended not to be done with a single DJI charger.

There is no way to charge a DJI RC with a smart charger, AFAIK. So the above advice is not useful for 95-98% of us here.

The above poster has plenty of regular RC battery charging intelligence, but very little of that is useful for us regular everyday Phantom users here.

I still recommend buying the DJI OEM 100w charger to the OP, and know that his satisfaction will be gauranteed, when doing so.
Save your money to buy another flight pack or even two, at those smart charger exorbitant prices. ;-)

All other advise is a moot point, and here's why that info is pointless, a smart charger costs far more than the DJI 100w charger.

No need or interest in that much higher cost or use, plus the DJI charger is small and easily transported as well. Hahaha

But as they say: YMMV Chuckles and guffaws


RedHotPoker

I have three 100w and one 57w charger. The 100 w charges a bit faster.

solentlife Posted at 2017-2-15 20:33
The answer lies in the two charger bricks supplied for P3 models ... Standard has the 57W .... but Advanced and Pro have the higher 100W version. Why ? All use the same battery pack.

Its an interesting matter actually as I have tested to see how the charge controller board fitted to the battery acts. Because I prefer using a proper LiPo charger to charge any LiPo ... I upped the amps to just above the rated max ... the charge controller dropped the amps back similar to the 57W level !!!! I also still use the 57W supplied charger and time to charge was near same. So this indicates the 100W charger would only be of benefit if the battery pack was seriously discharged. For normal charging - the amps were limited back to the lower level.

I believe the Advanced model also comes with the 57 watt model. The 100w was reserved for the Pro.  AFAIK

KM5RG-Robert Posted at 2017-2-16 07:32
I believe the Advanced model also comes with the 57 watt model. The 100w was reserved for the Pro.  AFAIK

OK ... but the point was that the 100W was charging same battery as the 57W ... so it remains a budgetry decision on DJI part to supply a cheaper 57W brick to Standard owners ...

My moan is the price of what is a dumb brick regulated power supply !!

(Dumb brick is a common term used for a non-variable power supply.... not to be confused with a derogatory term).

Nigel

solentlife Posted at 2017-2-16 07:44
OK ... but the point was that the 100W was charging same battery as the 57W ... so it remains a budgetry decision on DJI part to supply a cheaper 57W brick to Standard owners ...

My moan is the price of what is a dumb brick regulated power supply !!

Yeah, basically the same as a laptop power supply but with different connectors added.

KM5RG-Robert Posted at 2017-2-16 09:11
Yeah, basically the same as a laptop power supply but with different connectors added.

Thank you for that ... because some people still believe its a 'clever' brick !!

Nigel

DJI could have saved themselves a lot of grief and also given Users better options by a much easier path than they chose.

But its not unusual for a Brand name to try and lock users into proprietary gear. Unfortunately for DJI - the RC world has been going for far longer than they have. Means that many people like myself do not accept such tactics and look for reasonable, reliable and safe alternatives. Not only that but if it also costs less ... its a win win for user.

I have tried to pass on suggested alternatives for people to decide for themselves what they wish to do. I do not say the DJI brick does not work. In fact I have shown it does and why. But I have also highlighted its limitations.
I have given alternatives which not only charge the DJi batterys but add a second level of safety to the operation. It also provides charging facility for all those other batterys used in other models, as well as putting some 'juice' into your car battery !!

Nigel

MJLSTUDIOS Posted at 2017-2-16 03:24
I have three 100w and one 57w charger. The 100 w charges a bit faster.

You need to buy a stack of DJI stock, and get some of your money back...  ;-)


Since you're already so truly invested.. Haha


Give a little, then get a little back.

@MJLSTUDIOS, how many intelligent flight batteries do you currently have?

RedHotPoker

RedHotPoker Posted at 2017-2-15 21:14
It's nice to have the advantage of charging two flight packs at the same time, or a flight pack and RC battery.
Which has been recomended not to be done with a single DJI charger.

This post quoted is proven wrong in its content. It has been reported for such now.

The proof was posted clearly regarding this for all to make their own decisions, but is now removed by apparently DJI.

Nigel

RockinCR Posted at 2017-2-15 18:44
Thanks RHP. That's exactly what I was looking for. The choice seemed to be a no-brainer but I didn't want to "assume" without checking with the forum. I'm looking at getting the 100W version to go with the P3 charging hub.
I appreciate your reply.

Be advised that the DJI charging hubs only charge one battery at a time beginning with the battery that is the least discharged....

Betamace Posted at 2017-2-16 21:59
Be advised that the DJI charging hubs only charge one battery at a time beginning with the battery that is the least discharged....

Yes you would need something like the expensive products supplied from Smart Power Charge to do multiple flight packs simultaneously and not sequentially.
http://smartpowercharge.com/proddetail.php?prod=SPCP3



RedHotPoker

This : http://smartpowercharge.com/proddetail.php?prod=SPCP3

is a very expensive way to solve what is a simple matter of parallel charge. Reasonable standard HV LiPo charger will charge multi packs simultaneously for far less cost.

But of course even the expensive over-priced "http://smartpowercharge.com/proddetail.php?prod=SPCP3" is not an approved DJI item ...  LOL !!

Nigel

RedHotPoker Posted at 2017-2-16 11:12
You need to buy a stack of DJI stock, and get some of your money back...  ;-)

I,ve got 32 batteries.....







Not, i've got 5

MJLSTUDIOS Posted at 2017-2-17 03:05
I,ve got 32 batteries.....

When I read 32, my jaw hit my chest. Hahaha

Four here but I want three more to fill up my Nanuk  945 battery slots.


Why do you have so many 100w chargers though? ;-)
I find having two is plenty enough for my needs.


RedHotPoker

"MJLSTUDIOS" .... do you by any chance charge 4 battery's at same time ?

I have 3 batterys for my P3S and I have 6 chargers incl. the DJI brick ... so probably like you I can charge all at same time ... makes big difference to being able to go out door quicker ...

Of course I am also charging various other LiPo's for my aerobatics / 3D and sport jobs ..

Nigel

RedHotPoker Posted at 2017-2-17 03:19
When I read 32, my jaw hit my chest. Hahaha

Four here but I want three more to fill up my Nanuk  945 battery slots.

I shoot sporting events. MX races can last 6 hrs or more with each heat lasting about 15 minutes. I replace a battery every heat.

I was under the impression that the faster you charge batteries the quicker they will degrade. I'm not sure sure however if this applies to Lipo batteries?!

DrawsWithLight. Posted at 2017-2-17 07:05
I was under the impression that the faster you charge batteries the quicker they will degrade. I'm not sure sure however if this applies to Lipo batteries?!

Depends on how much faster you charge. The higher the charge rate - the temperature increases ... in so doing - the internal resistance increases ... all adding up to shortening the life of the battery cells. Especially with multi cell packs like LiPo's where inner cells cannot dissipate heat. Its made even worse by DJI's decision to encase in a hard shell case.

It is true that manufacturer will often quote optimistic charge rates knowing the pack will last a reasonable period and then you replace. His interest is not to provide a battery last too long !!  Bit like the never ending light bulb. Money is in Consumables.

LiPo's have what is stated to be C rates for Discharge and a different lower rating for Charging. The DJI 57W brick provides watts which is well under the 1C rate. The 100W brick provides watts that is basically just over the 1C rate.
1C on a DJI pack is 4.45A.
Generally todays LiPo's are good for 2C rates ... with many actually happy at 3C ... but the DJI batterys are not rated that high and 5A is a good rate to set without damage - if you use a user settable system as I do. It basically keeps to the approx. 1C rate.

I believe in being kind to batterys of whatever format. We hammer life out of them when flying ... so why hammer them when charging. 1C is a nice kind rate.

Nigel

solentlife Posted at 2017-2-17 07:29
Depends on how much faster you charge. The higher the charge rate - the temperature increases ... in so doing - the internal resistance increases ... all adding up to shortening the life of the battery cells. Especially with multi cell packs like LiPo's where inner cells cannot dissipate heat. Its made even worse by DJI's decision to encase in a hard shell case.

It is true that manufacturer will often quote optimistic charge rates knowing the pack will last a reasonable period and then you replace. His interest is not to provide a battery last too long !!  Bit like the never ending light bulb. Money is in Consumables.

Cheers Nigel, superb comprehensive answer!

DrawsWithLight. Posted at 2017-2-17 08:19
Cheers Nigel, superb comprehensive answer!

Why thank you kind sir.

Cheers
Nigel

MJLSTUDIOS Posted at 2017-2-17 06:34
I shoot sporting events. MX races can last 6 hrs or more with each heat lasting about 15 minutes. I replace a battery every heat.

Hey that's cool.
We have some awesome riders up here. What interests me particularly are the fit gals that ride.

We have several areas that are used extensively for this activity.  Personally, I'm strictly on road, and only with my SpYder RS-S. When I was much younger it as a very different story.


RedHotPoker

I think the price is a huge difference for some time difference.

KevDrones Posted at 2017-2-17 11:20
I think the price is a huge difference for some time difference.

Which price and time frame are you referring..

I like using both of my 100w DJI chargers to help speed up charging my four intelligent flight packs.
It a great convenience and a wonderful time saver for me, cutting my charging time in half. When my flight packs are topped up, I can place the RC on one of the 100w Chargers and in no time, I am ready to hit the fields and streams. Awesome. ;-)

Not forgetting to give the iPad Air2 its own full recharge is also key.

RedHotPoker

57 W is $40 and 100W is $70

KevDrones Posted at 2017-2-17 11:37
57 W is $40 and 100W is $70

Ah ok, you feel the extra $30 can be spent in a better way.. Cool, we all have out personal priorities. Along with important financial responsibilities.
Mine is the time saving aspect.  But YMMV. Understandably so. Enjoy that saving. Have fun too.

Thanks for clarifying your statement above, as it was unclear to me. ;-)


RedHotPoker

Thanks, well I do get that time is important.

KevDrones Posted at 2017-2-17 11:55
Thanks, well I do get that time is important.

Perhaps you are much younger than I am.  So life lasts forever.

When you get up in age, time factors change, and we begin to understand this fact much clearer


I like to spend a lot of time in my favourite forums, as it gives me plenty of satisfaction.


With the high cost of decent internet speed, I like to get my "money's worth and best".

That's an inside joke for all the other cobblers and shoe makers out there. Haha
Who Tie one on... ;-)


RedHotPoker

RedHotPoker Posted at 2017-2-17 12:52
Perhaps you are much younger than I am.  So life lasts forever.

When you get up in age, time factors change, and we begin to understand this fact much clearer

Lol..I have no money. Already spent $600 dollars.

KevDrones Posted at 2017-2-18 09:12
Lol..I have no money.  Already spent $600 dollars.

Nice, my iPad Air2 64gb Cellular was more than that. The Phantom 3 Pro ran $1700 with gst.
Yes, funny enough I Was just writing a reminder list showing some of the things that this broke azz hobby enthusiast misses out on. Like groceries, dining out, laundry, travel/fuel, entertainment, movies, clothing, family and friends, Christmas, birthdays, celebrations, concerts, movies, S.D.R, Church & charity, clubs, groups and organizations. The zoo.

& That's a short list too...

So friend, I can relate. ;-)

But We, are here... Chuckles


RedHotPoker

........and i had to justify spending $275 on a spare battery, prop guards, and 4 extra spare props !  gunna show the missus this thread. lol

RedHotPoker Posted at 2017-2-18 11:34
Nice, my iPad Air2 64gb Cellular was more than that. The Phantom 3 Pro ran $1700 with gst.
Yes, funny enough I Was just writing a reminder list showing some of the things that this broke azz hobby enthusiast misses out on. Like groceries, dining out, laundry, travel/fuel, entertainment, movies, clothing, family and friends, Christmas, birthdays, celebrations, concerts, movies, S.D.R, Church & charity, clubs, groups and organizations. The zoo.

Lol.. I used my allowance, I spent it on the Phantom 3 Standard and DJI Care.... Lol it is Care, at least for my little flying baby.

If you get the P3P's 100W charger, it wouldn't be an issue.