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[Misleading] Proof DJI lied about flight data - Fellow pilots push..
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DJTek
lvl.1

United States
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My brand new, DJI Phantom 4 Pro Dropped out of the sky, and into a river during a gig a few nights ago. DJI told me that it crashed into a building and that it was my fault.
What the didn't know is that I am a military pilot, and I deal with analystics as a profession here's how I am proving them wrong.

Email from DJI


For your claimed case CAS-469614-K3F0X1, we have already finished the analysis, and the result is as follows:

1) The aircraft responded to the pilot’s control well;
2) T=01-50 h=26m, d=205m, pilot pulled roll leftward, aircraft flew leftward, then crashed into obstacles in ATTI mode;
3) Aircraft would not hover, skid or avoid obstacles in ATTI mode

According to the analysis, the incident was not caused by any product malfunction factors. As such, we could not provide warranty service. Micah, from the case description, the aircraft was recovered, right? If you want to send it back for repair service, please let us know.

Should you have more questions, please feel free to let me know.


My Rebuttle...

SINCE I REALIZED YOUR COMPANY IS LYING TO ME ABOUT MY FLIGHT DATA, I DECIDED TO ACTUALLY ANALYZE IT MYSELF.
SINCE THERE WAS NO COLLISION AND IT FELL INTO THE LAKE WHERE I COULDN’T RECOVER IT, IT’S A TOTAL LOSS. THIS WAS A PAID GIG, AND I HAVE MY EXEMPTION TO FLY.
I AM ASKING FOR A REVIEW FROM MANAGEMENT. I AM ALSO LOOKING INTO LEGAL OPTIONS AS THIS HAS COST ME MORE THAN THE DRONE.

Timeline:
2 minutes into the flight. Warning Received
Warning:Satellite Positioning Off. Fly with caution
Flight time: 02m 00s
Altitude: 88.9 ft
Home Distance: 692 ft
---------------------------------------
0:05 seconds later.
Gimbal Roll Reached Movement Limit
Flight time: 02m 05s
Altitude: 86.0 ft
Home Distance: 692 ft
Gimbal Roll Reached Movement Limit” occurs when the aircraft has rotated or turned more than the compensate for.
Flight time: 02m 05s <———
Altitude: 85.0 ft
Compass Turn Rate Per 0.1s: 27.1!!!
Thats almost a 90 degree turn in a third of a second, which is not normal. Meaning it turned sideways dropping out of the SKY!!  WITH OR WITHOUT GPS, ITS BUILT IN STABILIZATION WONT ALLOW IT TO TURN 90’ ON ITS SIDE!!! I COULD NOT FOR IT TO DO THAT.

DJI SUPPLIED DATA:


NO INDICATION OF IT SLIDING INTO A BUILDING!!?!?!?!!!!


AIRCRAFT HAD 90 FEET (26M) UNOBSTRUCTED IN EVERY DIRECTION!!




PREVIOUSLY FLIGHT THE EXACT SAME ROUTE!! NO ISSUES.

Battery was at 45% MORE THAN ENOUGH TO POWER THROUGH WIND AND RETURN TO HOLD SAFELY.

BATTERY DATA IN THE EVENT YOU BLAME THAT.  Battery was BRAND NEW!! USED ONLY TWICE!!!!






I am really interested to how they respond to this. ;) Stop Lying DJI.


2017-3-1
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hallmark007
Captain
Flight distance : 6038822 ft
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Ireland
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Be nice to see pictures, maybe say they may have got it wrong might help, if someone called me a liar, last thing I would be encouraged to do is help, you may have a case, whether you can win it might be helped by the way you handle it. Looking forward to seeing your photos, and if you have logs might also help.  Good luck..
2017-3-1
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LAI
lvl.1
Flight distance : 38310 ft
United States
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Keep us updated.
2017-3-1
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Nigel_
Captain
Flight distance : 388642 ft
United Kingdom
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Does sound like it crashed into something after loosing the GPS signal! With only "26M UNOBSTRUCTED IN EVERY DIRECTION!!" that is easy to do very quickly with a bit of wind.

Can we have a look at the full logs from your tablet?
2017-3-1
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shawn_
lvl.4
Flight distance : 256791 ft
United States
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Yeah check the images. But, this doesn't surprise me, I've come to realize anybody nowadays denies an initial claim and you've gotta fight for everything nowadays.
That does suck that it happened on a paid gig. I've seen it, people are always hesitant after that. Hope you get it resolved, keep us posted.
2017-3-1
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Maxxgold
lvl.3
Flight distance : 19157 ft
United States
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So far, you have posted no proof, just an angry rant. Post your flight logs and all your evidence, and your issue will be resolved. The pictures you posted are not showing up for me.
2017-3-1
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Mark The Droner
Captain
Flight distance : 2917 ft
United States
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Battery was 45% two mins into the flight?  How did that happen?

Do you have a flight log we could look at?  

Sorry for your loss.
2017-3-1
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hallmark007
Captain
Flight distance : 6038822 ft
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Why was it being flown in Atti mode? A lake at nighttime is also an obstacle.
2017-3-1
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Cabansail
Second Officer
Flight distance : 136686 ft

Australia
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Could it have collided with something flying? (a bird or bat etc).  At almost 700' away at night it would have been very hard to see what was happening.
2017-3-1
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Nigel_
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Cabansail Posted at 2017-3-1 13:49
Could it have collided with something flying? (a bird or bat etc).  At almost 700' away at night it would have been very hard to see what was happening.

Maybe attacked by an owl defending it's hunting territory?

Or a yacht mast as it was over water.

Flying at night with no obstacle avoidance or GPS and out of sight does seem unwise.
2017-3-1
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Labroides
Captain
Flight distance : 9991457 ft
Australia
Online

If you want us to know the circumstances of your incident you'll need to post actual flight data rather than your interpretation of just a few points.
The wording you have used suggests that you've looked at a Healthydrones report but HD is next to useless for investigating incidents as it simply gives a basic summary.
Go to http://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/Upload/
Follow the instructions to upload your flight record.
Come back and post a link to the report it provides and you may find additional information relevant to your case.
2017-3-1
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DJTek
lvl.1

United States
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I'm really suprised you all can't see the images because I can...
2017-3-1
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DJTek
lvl.1

United States
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(((( REPOSTING HOPEFULLY THE IMAGES SHOW UP THIS TIME ))))

My brand new, DJI Phantom 4 Pro Dropped out of the sky, and into a river during a gig a few nights ago. DJI told me that it crashed into a building and that it was my fault.
What the didn't know is that I am a military pilot, and I deal with analystics as a profession here's how I am proving them wrong.

Email from DJI


For your claimed case CAS-469614-K3F0X1, we have already finished the analysis, and the result is as follows:

1) The aircraft responded to the pilot’s control well;
2) T=01-50 h=26m, d=205m, pilot pulled roll leftward, aircraft flew leftward, then crashed into obstacles in ATTI mode;
3) Aircraft would not hover, skid or avoid obstacles in ATTI mode

According to the analysis, the incident was not caused by any product malfunction factors. As such, we could not provide warranty service. Micah, from the case description, the aircraft was recovered, right? If you want to send it back for repair service, please let us know.

Should you have more questions, please feel free to let me know.


My Rebuttle...

SINCE I REALIZED YOUR COMPANY IS LYING TO ME ABOUT MY FLIGHT DATA, I DECIDED TO ACTUALLY ANALYZE IT MYSELF.
SINCE THERE WAS NO COLLISION AND IT FELL INTO THE LAKE WHERE I COULDN’T RECOVER IT, IT’S A TOTAL LOSS. THIS WAS A PAID GIG, AND I HAVE MY EXEMPTION TO FLY.
I AM ASKING FOR A REVIEW FROM MANAGEMENT. I AM ALSO LOOKING INTO LEGAL OPTIONS AS THIS HAS COST ME MORE THAN THE DRONE.

Timeline:
2 minutes into the flight. Warning Received
Warning:Satellite Positioning Off. Fly with caution
Flight time: 02m 00s
Altitude: 88.9 ft
Home Distance: 692 ft
---------------------------------------
0:05 seconds later.
Gimbal Roll Reached Movement Limit
Flight time: 02m 05s
Altitude: 86.0 ft
Home Distance: 692 ft
Gimbal Roll Reached Movement Limit” occurs when the aircraft has rotated or turned more than the compensate for.
Flight time: 02m 05s <———
Altitude: 85.0 ft
Compass Turn Rate Per 0.1s: 27.1!!!
Thats almost a 90 degree turn in a third of a second, which is not normal. Meaning it turned sideways dropping out of the SKY!!  WITH OR WITHOUT GPS, ITS BUILT IN STABILIZATION WONT ALLOW IT TO TURN 90’ ON ITS SIDE!!! I COULD NOT FOR IT TO DO THAT.

DJI SUPPLIED DATA:
2017-03-01_11-02-04.jpg
2017-03-01_10-40-23.jpg
NO INDICATION OF IT SLIDING INTO A BUILDING!!?!?!?!!!!

2017-03-01_10-16-42.jpg
AIRCRAFT HAD 90 FEET (26M) UNOBSTRUCTED IN EVERY DIRECTION!!

2017-03-01_10-28-35.jpg

2017-03-01_10-31-51.jpg
PREVIOUSLY FLIGHT THE EXACT SAME ROUTE!! NO ISSUES.

Battery was at 45% MORE THAN ENOUGH TO POWER THROUGH WIND AND RETURN TO HOLD SAFELY.

BATTERY DATA IN THE EVENT YOU BLAME THAT.  Battery was BRAND NEW!! USED ONLY TWICE!!!!
2017-03-01_10-05-22.jpg

2017-03-01_10-03-01.jpg



I am really interested to how they respond to this. ;) Stop Lying DJI.



2017-3-1
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DJTek
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United States
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Labroides Posted at 2017-3-1 14:42
If you want us to know the circumstances of your incident you'll need to post actual flight data rather than your interpretation of just a few points.
The wording you have used suggests that you've looked at a Healthydrones report but HD is next to useless for investigating incidents as it simply gives a basic summary.
Go to http://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/Upload/

I couldn't get your link to work, my data kept coming up blank. Yet when I downloaded the CSV there was data in it... So I have supplied the file via a dropbox link.
2017-3-1
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DJTek
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AlecW Posted at 2017-3-1 09:51
No images are showing up.

I have posted them below. Let me know if you can see them pls.
2017-3-1
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blackcrusader
First Officer
Flight distance : 689774 ft
Taiwan
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DJTek Posted at 2017-3-1 17:05
I'm really suprised you all can't see the images because I can...

I cannot see them.  You perhaps can as you are actually looking at the account you posted them from?
2017-3-1
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DJTek
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Nigel_ Posted at 2017-3-1 14:27
Maybe attacked by an owl defending it's hunting territory?

Or a yacht mast as it was over water.

It honestly was too cold for any birds and it was exactly at my 12. I chose the position I was in so I would have direct line of sight.

There's potential it could have been shot, this is Chicago... but I believe I could even hear a silencer it was so quiet.  (really not serious)
2017-3-1
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blackcrusader
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DJTek Posted at 2017-3-1 17:25
It honestly was too cold for any birds and it was exactly at my 12. I chose the position I was in so I would have direct line of sight.

There's potential it could have been shot, this is Chicago... but I believe I could even hear a silencer it was so quiet.  (really not serious)

Too cold? lol   Birds fly in sub zero temperatures all the time.

Also read these accounts where busted drones have been replaced by DJI.  They have no reason to lie. If you have a dispute you need to take it up with them.

http://forum.dji.com/thread-86920-1-1.html
2017-3-1
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Labroides
Captain
Flight distance : 9991457 ft
Australia
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DJTek Posted at 2017-3-1 17:21
I couldn't get your link to work, my data kept coming up blank. Yet when I downloaded the CSV there was data in it... So I have supplied the file via a dropbox link.

Is that definitely from the flight in question?
It only shows data for 13 seconds and most of the values are blank

Your last illustration shows that you've uploaded the file to HD.
Are you sure this is the .txt file from that flight?
2017-3-1
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DJTek
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Labroides Posted at 2017-3-1 17:31
That's all very well but there is nothing there that would enable a proper investigation.
DJI had the internal flight recorder data.
Your app also records data and if you follow the instructions in post #12 above we'll be able to see what actually happened.

My friend... I have tried many times to upload what you have suggested... so I have provided it to you directly. Everytime I upload, it shows no data. if you download the file you "can" see there is proper data in the file.
2017-3-1
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Labroides
Captain
Flight distance : 9991457 ft
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DJTek Posted at 2017-3-1 17:47
My friend... I have tried many times to upload what you have suggested... so I have provided it to you directly. Everytime I upload, it shows no data. if you download the file you "can" see there is proper data in the file.

13 seconds of blank values isn't real data.
If you can sort that out I'd be happy to look over it for you.
If the file is corrupted, that makes things difficult but seeing the HD could make sense of it suggests there is a good file there somewhere.
2017-3-1
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blackcrusader
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DJTek Posted at 2017-3-1 17:21
I couldn't get your link to work, my data kept coming up blank. Yet when I downloaded the CSV there was data in it... So I have supplied the file via a dropbox link.

You need to download the original file from healthy drones and upload it to phantomhelp. Not the CSV.

2017-3-1
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Maxxgold
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Flight distance : 19157 ft
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So, so far I don't seen any proof that DJI lied to anyone. It would be nice if the OP would stop with all his accusations and actually post something besides his unfoundedd opinions. Maybe a more approprate topic would have been " I'm incompetent, and instead of taking any blame I'm going to go on a rant, and then not back it up with anything."
2017-3-1
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DJTek
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Labroides Posted at 2017-3-1 17:50
13 seconds of blank values isn't real data.
If you can sort that out I'd be happy to look over it for you.
If the file is corrupted, that makes things difficult but seeing the HD could make sense of it suggests there is a good file there somewhere.

Flight Data - Corrected
2017-3-1
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blackcrusader
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AlecW Posted at 2017-3-1 17:51
That made me laugh.  Too cold for birds?

Tell that to the birds that caused that airliner to lose both engines and crash into the Hudson. It was winter and freezing.
The air and water temperatures were about 20 °F (−7 °C) and 32–36 °F (0–2 °C) respectively

US Airways Flight 1549
2017-3-1
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DJTek
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Maxxgold Posted at 2017-3-1 17:59
So, so far I don't seen any proof that DJI lied to anyone. It would be nice if the OP would stop with all his accusations and actually post something besides his unfoundedd opinions. Maybe a more approprate topic would have been " I'm incompetent, and instead of taking any blame I'm going to go on a rant, and then not back it up with anything."

So here is the issue.

DJI has claimed my drone collided with a building.

Yet my drone fell into a lake.

For them to even deduce this is mind boggling with the data they had. They drew an graphic indicating that it flew 100ft into a building. That's simply not true.
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DJTek
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Nigel_ Posted at 2017-3-1 14:27
Maybe attacked by an owl defending it's hunting territory?

Or a yacht mast as it was over water.

Owl - Unlikely.
Mast - Not in Chicago, not yet at least.

No GPS - This occurred 5 seconds after I received that alert.
2017-3-1
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blackcrusader
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DJTek Posted at 2017-3-1 18:02
Flight Data - Corrected

Thanks for uploading the correct original file. http://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/6HJX3ARJ1TCN10BANP01/

Several warnings. Satellite Positioning Off. Fly with caution.  Flying in ATTI mode the drone can easily drift.
I also see that you have only 4 satellites locked on at end of flight.  Terrestrial interference?
I am not making a claim to what happened.  Let's see what some others see from your log.

Seriously though from your flight log it looks like your drone flew to a tavern.  
Can you also give us the healthy drones link to your flight?

2017-3-1
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DJTek
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blackcrusader Posted at 2017-3-1 18:08
Thanks for uploading the correct original file. http://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/6HJX3ARJ1TCN10BANP01/

Several warnings. Satellite Positioning Off. Fly with caution.  Flying in ATTI mode the drone can easily drift.

Ok Fair.

But I have been flying drones since the Phatom 2.  I have bought every model since then.  Even flying without Sat's do not justify it simply dropping. I watched it tilt hard one direction, lights turned off and it just fell.  I was staging for a photo.

I've lost drones before, when the P3P would lose it's compass and flying it was like trying to control a kite in a hurricane. Some battles I have won and some I have lost. This is the first time, that I have watched it drop out of the sky.

I have even had my drone hit by a bird AND IT MIRACULOUSLY recovered as it was falling... This was different.
2017-3-1
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DJTek
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AlecW Posted at 2017-3-1 17:51
That made me laugh.  Too cold for birds?

You win. Sounded stupid
+1 You  :: -1 Me

But I live in downtown Chicago. You get used to patterns. Birds are not a common site in that area, at that time of night.
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DJTek
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blackcrusader Posted at 2017-3-1 18:08
Thanks for uploading the correct original file. http://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/6HJX3ARJ1TCN10BANP01/

Several warnings. Satellite Positioning Off. Fly with caution.  Flying in ATTI mode the drone can easily drift.

I'm going to try and upload these files for you all again...

1

1

2

2

3

3

4

4

7

7

6

6


5

5
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DJTek
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blackcrusader Posted at 2017-3-1 18:08
Thanks for uploading the correct original file. http://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/6HJX3ARJ1TCN10BANP01/

Several warnings. Satellite Positioning Off. Fly with caution.  Flying in ATTI mode the drone can easily drift.

Healthy Drones Flight Analysis
2017-3-1
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blackcrusader
First Officer
Flight distance : 689774 ft
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Looks like your drone went to the theater area.  This comes from the latitude and longitude from your flight logs.  
So yes looks like your drone did hit a building.  

2017-3-1
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DJTek
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blackcrusader Posted at 2017-3-1 18:26
Looks like your drone went to the theater area.  This comes from the latitude and longitude from your flight logs.  
So yes looks like your drone did hit a building.  

Bro...

Do you realize that's NO WHERE near where my drone was at. You have to turn the 3D mapping off.

Look at it from a top down topography. I heard the splash.
2017-3-1
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Sp00nix
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Do you have cashed video on your device?
2017-3-1
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blackcrusader
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DJTek Posted at 2017-3-1 18:25
Healthy Drones Flight Analysis

Yes from the map looks like flight ended above the water. Just that flight logs show different.
2017-3-1
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blackcrusader
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AlecW Posted at 2017-3-1 18:31
I know, I was agreeing with you.

Yes I know.  It was for the OP.  Sorry for the confusion.
2017-3-1
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Geebax
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Looking at the flight logs, the thing I noticed first was that you began the flight with 52% battery. The last log entry had the battery at 45%. The error message of gimbal roll reaching end limit often occurs under sudden change in direction, and as you were flying in ATTI mode at the time, that sudden movement can also place a heavy load on the battery.

One effect I am convinced occurs, is that the battery percentage indication is not accurate on a partially charged battery, and at several occasions during the flight, the battery voltage was down to 13.8 volts, which is not good.

It also appears that for much of your flight, you were at relatively low altitudes, and that can reduce GPS availability due to the urban canyon effect. So at the time of the last entry, you had 4 satellites available, therefore the aircraft would automatically switch to ATTI mode.

My conclusion is that the message Gimbal Roll Reached Movement Limit is the clue to what happened. A sudden movement on a very depleted battery dropped the battery voltage too low for an instant in time and the electronics in the aircraft shut down briefly, causing it to fall out of the sky.



2017-3-1
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blackcrusader
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DJTek Posted at 2017-3-1 18:29
Bro...

Do you realize that's NO WHERE near where my drone was at. You have to turn the 3D mapping off.

In a noisy city you heard the splash from near 700 feet away?  Bionic Ears?

Must have been some splash.  

2017-3-1
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DJTek
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blackcrusader Posted at 2017-3-1 18:45
Yes from the map looks like flight ended above the water. Just that flight logs show different.


As you can see, not even DJI is questioning where I lost my drone. I just made a video in final cut showing exactly... with precision where it fell out of the sky.  https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11356876/FlightRecords/Untitled%20Project.m4v


2017-03-01_11-02-04.jpg



Inserting second link since no one has seen one picture I have posted yet.



Inserting the rest from my dropbox now also... Maybe you can finally see it. The forum tools are not working apparently.



2017-03-01_11-02-04.jpg
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