A question to German pilots about insurance
4235 14 2017-3-4
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rnrnrn
lvl.4
Flight distance : 430932 ft
Germany
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Dear All,

At the moment every German website about drones specifically mentions the need for insurance (Haftpflicht) and that your private "general" insurance does not cover this.

My Alliianz Haftpflicht specifically states that all aerial actions are not insured within it if there is a requirement for insurance based on regulations. Therefore I checked through all the rules available and... there is no requirement for insurance mentioned anywhere in there. For commercial drone applications there is such a requirement but not for hobby flying. Therefore as far as I can tell all the mentions of this "requirement" are simply money grabs - and yes on every website there are links to insurance companies - and on every website different links (therefore this seems like specific targeting of customers for specific insurance companies).

If you do have some thoughts on this please do share as this is a rather important issue (obviously). I would not be happy flying without insurance anyhow but since my private one covers hobby flights - well - I must consider myself covered ;-)

One other thing - with the new regulations it is mandatory for drones >250g to have a "license plate" with the name and address of the owner (person responsible). I used one I already had - a sticker printed on paper which I use on envelopes for snail mail. On on website a guy specifically mentions that this has to be "fireproof" and so pastes a link to a company on Amazon that does stuff like this. Yet again - the only thing mentioned in any regulations is the fact you need to have a "license plate" but nowhere does it state it should be fireproof. Does anyone know any regulation which would mention this? And yet again - please look if you can find something for the hobby crowd - I am aware that flight regulations require fireproof IDs on aircraft components but... this relates to aircraft, not hobby drones. Hence the question ;-)

Wishing all a good weekend :-)

2017-3-4
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Scottty
lvl.2
Flight distance : 169902 ft
Germany
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Hi rnrnrnrn, please check the following site: http://www.kopterforum.de/topic/ ... -deutschland/page-1
2017-3-4
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rnrnrn
lvl.4
Flight distance : 430932 ft
Germany
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Scottty Posted at 2017-3-4 05:13
Hi rnrnrnrn, please check the following site: http://www.kopterforum.de/topic/16207-rechtliche-situation-deutschland/page-1

Dear Scotty,

Thank you for your answer with the link. This I have seen already awhile ago and what I'm thinking is... why does the author use the paragraphs for insurance and the minimum coverage as a fact and does not include the paragraphs about the obligatory registration (Zulassung)? He is picking some stuff and not applying the other - while in theory this applies to us as well since we're operating Flugzeug".

Why would the insurance bit apply and not the registration bit? I can't find any specific indication in the regulations... it's like a gray area which is a bit disturbing.

Cheers,

RN
2017-3-5
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Scottty
lvl.2
Flight distance : 169902 ft
Germany
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Deal RN,

I´m not an expert, but there may be two points of view to find your answer: You dive into the paragraphs, which seems not to be easy.
Or you just ask your private Haftpflicht, If it covers costs caused by drones. If not, you probably won´t take the risk, if your drone causes an expensive accident.

I chose the second way  and got a drone insurance. I took DMO 4 years ago, but I have no idea how they behave in case of taking costs.
Have you heared  about the case when a phantom (seems to was out of control) landed on the highway lane close to Munich?

Hope this could help and happy flying
Scottty
2017-3-5
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GermanPilot
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Germany
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An excellent overview about german drone insurances you get here:

https://translate.google.com/tra ... ungsvergleich.de%2F

Original Page (in german): http://drohneversicherungsvergleich.de/

Translated Excerpt:

How to find the best liability (in 6 steps)

A certain knowledge of the legal situation is crucial for the right choice of insurance. As the owner of a drone, you will share airspace with other aircraft. The legislator therefore requires you to be familiar with the current regulations. Especially in the field of insurance, mistakes are often made. Ignorance is no excuse. That is why we have listed all the factors to consider when making the right choice:


Decision 1: Private or commercial?

An essential question that arises for you before taking out a UAV liability insurance is: "Do I need a commercial insurance or is a private UAV liability sufficient?

    The conclusion of a private liability insurance for your drone can make sense if you use your quadrocopter exclusively for "hobby purposes", i.e. do not pursue any commercial interest. The law speaks of the fact that the model aircraft may be operated exclusively for the purpose of sport and leisure activities. (§1 Paragraph 1 No.8 LuftVZO)

    A commercial interest always exists when you offer or make available images or video sequences to third parties. Even if you offer a specific service as part of the deployment of your aircraft, you should still fall back on a commercial drones insurance tariff. Here the law speaks of unmanned aerial systems (ULS) which are not used for the purpose of sport or leisure activities. (§1 Paragraph 2 LuftVG)

Caution: Even if you publish image or video material recorded with the drone on YouTube or another video channel, this is a commercial offer from a legal point of view.

The background: You could theoretically earn money through partner programs. The same applies to the publication of your image and video material on a website (even if it is a private website). In this case too, it is conceivable that you could generate income by displaying advertising banners. For this reason - in order to be legally on the safe side - you must also in the last two cases described fall back on a commercial tariff of the drones liability insurance.


Decision 2: Insurance Sum

The law clearly stipulates that you must have a sum insured of at least 1 million euros within the scope of your drones liability insurance. This sum insured is automatically included in the tariffs presented on this page. (§43 para. 2 LuftVG and §37 LuftVG)

If you wish, you can also take out a policy with a higher sum insured: It is also possible to conclude a policy with higher amounts of cover, e.g. EUR 3 million or EUR 5 million.

Basically, the following applies: In case of doubt, conclude the insurance tariff with the higher sum insured in order to play it safe and to be adequately insured in the event of damage.


Decision 3: How many drones?

First of all, how many drones you own is crucial for this question. On this page we present various insurance offers: Depending on the tariff and provider, you can insure any number of drones with the liability policy. You will find corresponding offers in the tables above.

Caution: Make sure that there should not be more than one to a maximum of three drones in the air at the same time - subject to a tariff - otherwise the legally prescribed sum insured per aircraft in the air would not be sufficiently high if this number were exceeded.


Decision 4: How many pilots?


The DELVAG fares presented here have a decisive advantage over the offers of alternative providers: these fares do not limit the number of pilots who are also insured for driving the drone.

It is therefore completely irrelevant whether you let your siblings, parents, grandparents, neighbours or friends at the wheel: you enjoy full insurance cover at all times. So you can give the steering wheel away without worries and share your extraordinary hobby with friends and acquaintances.

Note: Please note, however, that depending on the tariff, the names of the pilots should be reported to the insurance company in advance by email.

If you choose conventional private liability insurance, you should check whether your insurance clearly insures according to the prescribed principle of owner's liability. This principle means that regardless of who flies, the owner is always liable.


Decision 5: Deductibles

When it comes to deductibles, too, we offer you a level of insurance comfort that meets the highest demands with the tariffs provided here: All drones liability insurance from DELVAG are also offered without excess. This applies to both commercial and private policies.


Decision 6: EU or worldwide?

Many drone-fans are not content to let their drones and quadrocopters fly exclusively at home. Especially during holidays and travels, there are often excellent opportunities to photograph and film the foreign environment and landscape from the air.

If you intend to let your Multicopter fly exclusively in Germany or Austria, you are well equipped with the standard tariff of DELVAG insurance.

The situation is slightly different if you intend to let your Multicopter fly worldwide. Here, DELVAG's offers offer you the option of taking out additional worldwide insurance cover on request. You can add this to your existing liability insurance tariff for an additional fee of 59€ per year. Alternatively, the tariffs of R+V, which already include worldwide protection, are recommended.

2018-5-12
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rnrnrn
lvl.4
Flight distance : 430932 ft
Germany
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GermanPilot Posted at 2018-5-12 23:36
An excellent overview about german drone insurances you get here:

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdrohneversicherungsvergleich.de%2F

This is a good compilation of stuff, unfortunately one thing is a bit excessive here - namely the commercial versus non-commercial insurance. Fair enough - if the premium is similar that would not make much of a difference but as far as I've seen, the premiums are quite a bit different.

There is an assumption here that if you post something on the web you will make money on it. Well... no. That's a very far fetched assumption and I do not agree with this. I do post stuff on youtube but I am not a member of any partner program. I do have a website with adds on it and so I do not make any stuff off of it. Therefore - non-commercial insurance suffices. While I do agree that caution is worthwhile it stops being so when a more significant amount of money is involved.

Just my 3 cents in this ;) Happy flying! Cheers.
2018-5-14
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nedis
lvl.1
Netherlands
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Hi all!
So, have this been clarified? Is it required by the law after all to have a liability insurance for drone in Germany? I'm not a resident here, but want to fly while visiting relatives.
2018-5-25
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rnrnrn
lvl.4
Flight distance : 430932 ft
Germany
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nedis Posted at 2018-5-25 14:16
Hi all!
So, have this been clarified? Is it required by the law after all to have a liability insurance for drone in Germany? I'm not a resident here, but want to fly while visiting relatives.

Hi Nedis. Technically within the current legal framework it is obligatory to have such insurance if you throw a paper plane off of your balcony - because you set an aircraft in motion. The liability scope and the premium is different but the idea itself it that whether you pilot a Mavic or an A380 you are obliged just as well. Sorry :/

Cheers and happy flying!
2018-5-25
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nedis
lvl.1
Netherlands
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rnrnrn Posted at 2018-5-25 14:20
Hi Nedis. Technically within the current legal framework it is obligatory to have such insurance if you throw a paper plane off of your balcony - because you set an aircraft in motion. The liability scope and the premium is different but the idea itself it that whether you pilot a Mavic or an A380 you are obliged just as well. Sorry :/

Cheers and happy flying!

Thank you very much for your reply! That is a useful knowledge. I wonder if you can recommend the best/cheapest option?

The ones I found so far are AXA
https://www.axa.de/geschaeftskunden/drohnenversicherung

and
https://versichertedrohne.de/privathaftpflicht/

Also, must I have insurance certificate with me every time I fly?
2018-5-25
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rnrnrn
lvl.4
Flight distance : 430932 ft
Germany
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nedis Posted at 2018-5-25 14:40
Thank you very much for your reply! That is a useful knowledge. I wonder if you can recommend the best/cheapest option?

The ones I found so far are AXA

Hi again Nedis,

Sorry for late reply - wasn't around here awhile, mostly working (happens). Anyhow - all the insurances you could get in Germany are normally for a whole year. You pay once, correct, but the insurance runs for the full year and can be canceled on the full one year date within 3 months before the end of it. If it is not canceled it will run automatically for another year and so on.

Therefore - the best you could potentially get is maybe something in Holland. If you have there some insurance forms for flying within EU or elsewhere (depending on how far and how often you travel). The links you mentioned are for full "private civil liability" with the inclusion of drones. And Axa is rather crap, the other one better. But why would you get yourself into this if you only need this for a short time? And anyhow - I'm pretty sure you need an address in Germany and a local bank account to close the deal.

Sorry for the bad news but using German sites won't - most likely - be beneficial to you. Better if you seek something in Holland or wherever else you may have residence.

Cheers and happy flying!
2018-6-1
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Uri Sevilla
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Canada
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rnrnrn Posted at 2018-5-25 14:20
Hi Nedis. Technically within the current legal framework it is obligatory to have such insurance if you throw a paper plane off of your balcony - because you set an aircraft in motion. The liability scope and the premium is different but the idea itself it that whether you pilot a Mavic or an A380 you are obliged just as well. Sorry :/

Cheers and happy flying!

This is a disaster.. I am about to visit Germany and Switzerland (Canadian here). I wanted to purchase a DJI Spark (what is it, about 300gr?) and use it for additional family footage (in country side, hills, etc - not over cities or populated areas).  
It sounds like it's going to be expensive in the best scenario (about $80 for a full year coverage, even I only need 2 weeks), or practically impossible (from what I see in all those insurance sites  it is meant only for German residents).
And then there's this fireproof label thing (where do I get that??).

As I'm going to basically be taking photos/videos of myself and wife and kid walking a trail in the alps - or similar idea - do I just ignore the whole insurance/registration/label thing and just use extra care not to fly near other ppl/structures?

What do you suggest I do?

thanks
2018-8-15
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Klaus W.
Second Officer
Flight distance : 118366 ft
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The fireproof label thing is easy, those may be had at Amazon for a few EUR (Drohnenplakette). They shall make identifying the owner of the drone easier in case it is lost (honi soit qui mal y pense).
The insurance thing is trickier if you‘re no German resident. If you could somehow obtain a German address, then the free 3 months trial membership DMFV offers (#5 here: https://www.drohnen.de/vergleich-quadrocopter-und-multicopter-versicherungen/) would solve this, too.
2018-8-15
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Klaus W.
Second Officer
Flight distance : 118366 ft
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https://www.dmfv.aero/mitgliedschaft/probemitgliedschaft/ involves insurance for quads < 1kg
2018-8-15
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Geraldian
lvl.1

Germany
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Hello,

A comparison of different insurance premiums and offers can be found here: https://www.drohnen.de/vergleich ... ter-versicherungen/

In Germany there are many different providers. There are also short-term insurances.

Lots of information and tips can be found here (use a translator): https://www.drohnen.de/17754/dro ... sicherung-ratgeber/
2018-10-9
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MarioUBurger
lvl.1

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nedis Posted at 2018-5-25 14:40
Thank you very much for your reply! That is a useful knowledge. I wonder if you can recommend the best/cheapest option?

The ones I found so far are AXA


https://versichertedrohne.de/privathaftpflicht/ is definitely by far the cheapest one right now! It is acually the same as AXA but with better coverage for drones. So if you get it there, you get an insurance from AXA which is a full liability insurance. Not only for drones. But the coverage for drones is really good, 50Mio oor so, I think.
2019-9-26
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