POLL QUESTION-  This is simply for discussions sake, the poll is theoretical and for fun.
In order to be civil I will pose this a question for discussion.  If you care to read the situation at hand I have documented it far below in green.  In summation,  my drone veered off while on Active Track on 2016/12/9.   I filled out all of the paperwork and STILL HAVE NOT received a diagnosis of what went wrong with my drone.  It has been at DJI since Jan/06/2017 13:08:24.   Here is the flight since DJI says they cannot see the logs,  (which is hard to believe), however they did guess a few reason why it crashed at first and in the last two email seem to offer nothing.  Again,  I'm just providing the log and emails to the forum for civil conversation.  More information is provided in the caption on the video.  Here is the link below for discussion.   In the video you see Active Track start to swerve off course at Youtube Time - 1:36 and things literally spiral downward from there.  As you can see via the flight paths,  all seems well prior to the crash and the flight paths were just overlapping.   Out of respect to DJI I have redacted any names.   Again this is not a complaint,  it's just a discussion to be had civilly.   In this particular case DJI did not provide any logs to me via the case manager to show any type of Pilot Error.  Under their own policy I believe this should be a case of where a warranty would come in to play (or should it?).   However,  as of right now I still have not received an answer to why my warranty claim was denied as it was defined as PILOT ERROR while in Active Track Mode.   My only belief and hope right now,  is that if you do have an accident with your drone.  DJI should at least provide you an official answer as to why a warranty claim has been denied.  Instead here is what DJI did provide ot me in two contrasting statements  NOTE (THE DRONE WAS FLOWN THROUGH THE DJIGO APP (not litchi-I don't even know what that is) BEFORE DJIGO4 APP WAS RELEASED).  ALL specifcs are provided below in an epic novela
EMAIL 1 March 4th -
"We were able to review the information which showed CSV files that is only used with the Litchi app.
Due to that the determination from analysis and all things considered were are able to offer 30% off the invoice which brings it down to 155.00.
A new invoice will be sent and once it is paid we will begin the process.
Thank you for your understanding. "

EMAIL 2 March8th (I asked for an explanation of why a warranty was denied)

"The files were CSV files. We were not able to pull them from the Go App per out data analysis. Due to this we are able to offer a discounted repair and brought the invoice down as low as possible.
Please pay the invoice so we can begin repair or it is going to be sent back soon.
Thanks for your understanding."


Question:  Why if you can't pull your onw logs would you automatically invoice the customer?

Log Notes:   

1. The drone starts to swerve off course on Active Track at 1:36,  notice that their are absolutely no stick movements.  

2. Operator tried to kick out of Active Track manually at aprox 1:40 (Stick commands as follow, up, straight ahead, right) with no luck,  the drone keeps going and crashes right at 1:42 (youtube Time Code) and spins to the ground.

3.  Op was told a few days later that new firmware and the DJI GO4 application was "now available".  The application had completely different firmware (as many of you already know).  

FULL EXPLANATION

My Phantom 4 Pro was received as a ticket on Jan/06/2017 13:08:24  and dropped off 4 days later for shipping by yours truly.   The unit was received on Jan/27/2017 02:28:12.  In very short order it was diagnosed (Feb/01/2017 04:18:00).   I received my final bill with a list of all the things they replaced.   My total amount due was $222.   DJI remarked simply, "Non-warranty".  That was it.

Quote Date:	01-31-17
Remarks:	Non-warranty

I immediately emailed them since it was after hours, and asked DJI why this was not covered by my warranty and how did they see this event so different then me?.  After all it said in my description exactly what happened and when...., surely they read these right ?    During this time period I sent 4 regular emails to DJI support.  I sent 2 messages to DJIsupport on Twitter, and posted 2 tweets to them.  To add to that I had about 6 to 10 online chats depending on how long one has to chat to be defined a "chat",  and 4 phone calls  (one of which was about both the Phantom 4 Pro+ issues).  I had one question in all of these messages.   I asked them to provide me information as to why I was being charged and gave them the exact Date of Accident：2016/12/9 0:03:06 .  So I think it is fair to say that I told DJI exactly when the accident happened down to the minute.   I also stated exactly what happened   


After my drone crashed it still flew perfectly.  It was dinged up though,  and since I was told it was going to be covered by  a warranty due to the circumstances.  Once our Phantom4Pro+ arrived to our business ,  I sent the Phantom4Pro back to repair the damage that occurred on  2016/12/9 .   All my other flights are documented and no errors occurred  However,  it looks like DJI read ONLY the last logged flight that was done on my Phantom4Pro, which was from my back porch, and happens to be 20 feet high.  Even though there are absolutely NO error messages and no reason to suspect any type of error (as the drone landed perfectly, with no movement and with the proper shut down joystick technique.) ,  what did DJI say?  Well,  two tech phone staffers said in the most ambiguous terms, that something due to a battery issue occurred and that it was a pilot error.  Seriously.  This is all I was told.  No straight answers,  no emails back, no nothing, except that something about battery power while piloting--not even a straight answer.  However I took this with a grain of salt because this drone was never crashed after  2016/12/9 ,  and I knew the exact cause of why it crashed and the craft was actually filming at the time.  So DJI's story simply doesn't jive.   When on my last call today with DJI, someone once again said it had something to do with the battery but wasn't sure, but he would find out right then and their.  Unfortunately nobody was in the "shop".  So he would get back to me IMMEDIATELY.  Now that was a promise I got hopeful about.   Unfortunately  as of this writing I have not heard anything.


Here is the issue, and most importantly for me,  nobody has given me a  reason as to why this wasn't covered under the warranty.  Nobody has directed me to which log they gathered this information from since my drone was flown several more times before it was sent to DJI, it flew perfectly however It just didn't look Shiny and New because of the initial damage.  The gimbal was banged up for sure, however it worked great and caused absolutely NO issues.  Sooo,  The issue here is not the money, and it isn't about the drone (well, a little .  It's about the fact that nobody till this hour has answered me as to one simple question as to why I'm being billed and why won't DJI provide me the logs with the flight information they used.   My first request for ANY information was acknowledged to be received on February 3rd  by DJI (# 371316.).  So this would have meant, they have not responded to a simple email request in 22 days.   However, DJI found time to send me 3 invoices for $222.  So as they were able to ask for money,  they still have not told me what log they were looking at that made them conclude it was pilot error.  So why wouldn't DJI just simply give me an easily proven reason?  Because It would be impossible based on the log they did look at.


First off everyone knows the DJIGO4 application is used in conjunction with the Phantom 4 Pro.  So obviously you would look through the flight records and look for any abnormalities,  which I imagine they did. Like I said they took the last flight that was flown in my back yard and theorized that since it was landed at 20 feet high, it must have crashed or something crazy like that.   Unfortunately for DJI,  there aren't any error messages, no abnormalities, and absolutely nothing to support it was anything but a smooth landing....ON MY DECK (20ft up)  What they forgot though is that the date of my crash, which happened at 3:06pm, was the same day DJI announced the release of the the DJIGO4 application about 30 minutes later.   So they didn't take in to consideration that my logs for the crash were actually in the DJIGo application which they couldn't have seen in the DJIGO4 app where they looked.  One reason is because they weren't even synced in to the DJIGO app until I just synced them 2 days ago.  If DJI had looked in those logs they would have seen these flights and immediately seen that the Active Track was Activated and backed up directly in to a poll.  They also would have seen a million error messages and abnormalities that are the hallmarks of crashes.  However it's my opinion that DJI forgot (just like me) that when the phantom4pro was first released,  the DJIGO was it's launch app.  HOWEVER, they were given the exact date and time down to the second.  Lastly, right after the crash,  I went back inside, and guess what.  I uploaded the firmware,  and guess what.  My drone didn't even come with the correct operating system.  So faulty sensors, faulty active track,  and the wrong firmware.   I also am TOTALLY fine if they made this mistake.  I just don't understand why they can't get back to me with ANY information in 22 days and counting.........TICK TOCK TICK TOCK

"1. The drone starts to swerve off course on Active Track at 1:36,  notice that their are absolutely no stick movements. "

Can you explain why you think it swerved off course?  It doesn't appear to do so to me, in fact it does what I was expecting!

Based on what I see in your video I am happy with "Pilot error", however I do think DJI could give a little more detail in some of their explanations so that their customers can understand the conclusions.

We're aware of your case and looking into the flight records now, will get back to you soon.
Very sorry for the crash, hope we'll get all sorted out as soon as possible.

Here is an update for your case:
Our support sent you the e-mail to confirm the information, unfortunately, we failed to locate the flight record you mentioned it occured, then we discounted the invoice and repaired it for you, it has been shipped out.

Absolute train wreck! Best of luck w DJi... My experience w tech support has been different answers every time. Seems like a training issue. Too bad we cannot ever get straight answers  I feel your pain!!

DJI Natalia Posted at 2017-3-8 03:41
We're aware of your case and looking into the flight records now, will get back to you soon.
Very sorry for the crash, hope we'll get all sorted out as soon as possible.
Here is an update for your case:
Our support sent you the e-mail to confirm the information, unfortunately, we failed to locate the flight record you mentioned it occured, then we discounted the invoice and repaired it for you, it has been shipped out.

Natalia,
Thank you for all of your help.  Actually DJI claimed they couldn't find the log (I did though, it was pretty easy) and will not issue a warranty repair,  so I have put this up for discussion for the forum since I am interested to know what others think about this situation.  I think it's a good topic for debate,  and could shed some light through user feedback.  Hopefully it will be a productive tool.

Nigel_ Posted at 2017-3-8 00:54
"1. The drone starts to swerve off course on Active Track at 1:36,  notice that their are absolutely no stick movements. "

Can you explain why you think it swerved off course?  It doesn't appear to do so to me, in fact it does what I was expecting!

Hey Nigel,  thanks for your feedback.   I'm interested in your thoughts as to why you would expect this outcome (when backwards tracking was enabled and the sensors failed)?    I think it should have kept tracking the subject backwards on it's path.   Your feedback is appreciated.  Thanks,

Sestaceans Posted at 2017-3-8 12:25
Hey Nigel,  thanks for your feedback.   I'm interested in your thoughts as to why you would expect this outcome (when backwards tracking was enabled and the sensors failed)?    I think it should have kept tracking the subject backwards on it's path.   Your feedback is appreciated.  Thanks,

I have a P4, not a P4P so there may be differences, but on mine it does not have "backward tracking", the option is to allow backward flying during active track, if you walk straight towards it then it will back up, but if you walk a little to the left side it will back around to the right as shown in your video above.  This allows you to steer it's path simply by walking slightly left or slightly right, but it is a bit like reversing a car and trailer, it takes a little skill and practice to avoid a jack-knife situation.   

I may be wrong, but it looks to me like you tried out the reverse flying for the first time in a space that was not wide enough for practice, leaving you no time to sort the problem when you ran into trouble through not understanding it's operation.

Since you have a P4P, I would expect the rear collision avoidance to have saved it, however collision avoidance and trees don't always go well together and in this case there was an additional problem in that it was turning a fairly sharp corner by the time it reached the tree and the collision avoidance has a fairly narrow angle view designed to see things 10m away, it may not have seen the tree in time because of the sharp turn, and also I believe your side collision sensors are not active in Active Track mode.   There is also the possibility of the light level in the tree being insufficient, I don't know since I don't know the light level, your video doesn't show it.

Is the video it was recording at all interesting?  Might give us some more clues?

Well, I read the P4P manual and Active Track appears to be the same as on the P4, so I don't understand your last post...

In any case, my point about not enough room/time to sort out the mistake stands.  Accidents are for insurance to sort, not warrantee.

jeffinhizhands Posted at 2017-3-8 06:20
Absolute train wreck! Best of luck w DJi... My experience w tech support has been different answers every time. Seems like a training issue. Too bad we cannot ever get straight answers  I feel your pain!!

Thanks Jeff.  Still no answer, day 28.  I think it's reasonable to just have a simple answer regardless of outcome.

Sestaceans Posted at 2017-3-8 22:02
Thanks Jeff.  Still no answer, day 28.  I think it's reasonable to just have a simple answer regardless of outcome.

@Sesta,
If you already paid for your repair there is no way you will get a dime from DJI.  That's the issue,  It's either hold out and maybe get an answer from DJI or just pay and get your drone back sans a few hundy.   I have no idea if this is pilot error because the visual image does not have all your settings showing.   If what you are saying is correct and you did not receive an official reason for denial of a warranty and if the Phantom 4 Pro truly did not come with the correct firmware it was supposed to come with, it seems as if your point about Active Track would be moot.  DJI should have automatically repaired your drone for free if they could not find the flight log because you showed their actually is one. Did they say differently?  Secondly,  and I'm no lawyer but if DJI sent you a drone and you can prove they sent it without the advertised firmware on arrival and then the drone crashed,  wouldn't this be a major safety concern putting users at risk?  I don't think $200 bucks is enough to take legal action against DJI nor would I ever even suggest that,  but after seeing that last post about the guy who got put in prison for a month for endanger someone who the hell knows !!!  I'd say if you can prove the OS was for P4 and not P4Pro,  that could pretty serious.  Sorry for the tangent, but my point is that Active Track is not your problem,  it was just a symptom of your uninstalled Operating System so it could have caused your crash.  So maybe that is why they would not release your log?  I've gone through situations with DJI as well but I've never heard of them on these forums not re-leasing a log to give you a valid warranty rejection or explanation.  That's very curious.   I've found the mods to be great here,  but Customer Support has......lived up to its reputation.  However I heard they were hiring new staff. Fingers Crossed.  Good Luck Bro-hime better luck next time

24ctDrone Posted at 2017-3-10 01:41
@Sesta,
If you already paid for your repair there is no way you will get a dime from DJI.  That's the issue,  It's either hold out and maybe get an answer from DJI or just pay and get your drone back sans a few hundy.   I have no idea if this is pilot error because the visual image does not have all your settings showing.   If what you are saying is correct and you did not receive an official reason for denial of a warranty and if the Phantom 4 Pro truly did not come with the correct firmware it was supposed to come with, it seems as if your point about Active Track would be moot.  DJI should have automatically repaired your drone for free if they could not find the flight log because you showed their actually is one. Did they say differently?  Secondly,  and I'm no lawyer but if DJI sent you a drone and you can prove they sent it without the advertised firmware on arrival and then the drone crashed,  wouldn't this be a major safety concern putting users at risk?  I don't think $200 bucks is enough to take legal action against DJI nor would I ever even suggest that,  but after seeing that last post about the guy who got put in prison for a month for endanger someone who the hell knows !!!  I'd say if you can prove the OS was for P4 and not P4Pro,  that could pretty serious.  Sorry for the tangent, but my point is that Active Track is not your problem,  it was just a symptom of your uninstalled Operating System so it could have caused your crash.  So maybe that is why they would not release your log?  I've gone through situations with DJI as well but I've never heard of them on these forums not re-leasing a log to give you a valid warranty rejection or explanation.  That's very curious.   I've found the mods to be great here,  but Customer Support has......lived up to its reputation.  However I heard they were hiring new staff. Fingers Crossed.  Good Luck Bro-hime better luck next time

No I never have received an official reason for the denial of a warranty repair.  I'm not sure if they are even still looking.  At this point I'm just giving up on finding any answers.  I know what happened,  and it's obvious from the log and the fact that I have a log that it exists.  I doubt they care about any legal ramifications because they are based in China.   If they did care they would have recalled the Inspire 1 batteries a long time ago!

Be careful,  this dude is spamming right here [img][/img]

Just an update.  The new firmware makes a few changes to the wording in Active Track and seem to get rid of the backwards option all together and lumps it in with the overall Active Track.  Not sure what it means but intersting to note.