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Today I learn that we are responsible for sending logs to DJI!
2694 18 2017-3-16
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WA5TEF
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I was told by a DJI representative that not only are we responsible for sending the flight data logs from the returned drone, to support but that simply the very act of "turning it on and off will ruin the onboard logs"!  So, if you must return your DJI drone for service, be sure you have not ruined the onboard flight logs by the silly act of powering up and then shutting it down after flight!  These logs are essential for DJI to deny a warranty claim so keep a copy.
Jim
2017-3-16
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blackcrusader
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The logs are stored on the internal SD card on the drone.  You can download them with a USB cable.  
2017-3-16
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Kirk2579
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you also have a log stored within YOUR personal device you use to fly with.
so if you do as mentioned copy the log prior to repair
you will have 2 separate but valid log files.
1.    from the internal drone SD
2.    another from you personal device you own that is running the GO app when flying.

both can be checked out INDEPEDANTLY of DJI for those that are paranoid /untrusting/etc
but we all know that already don't we!
2017-3-16
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blackcrusader
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Kirk2579 Posted at 2017-3-16 09:15
you also have a log stored within YOUR personal device you use to fly with.
so if you do as mentioned copy the log prior to repair
you will have 2 separate but valid log files.

I did not upload my logs to DJI cloud server until last week. I did however have them up on Healthy drones.  Perhaps better documentation for users should be given so that new users learn how to synch flight logs to DJI App.  Very easy to do.  
2017-3-16
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Roger1167
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Can you tell me how to send flight data logs to DJI please I am a newbie
2017-3-16
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DJI-Jamie
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It's not the act of powering the aircraft on/off in of itself that can be the issue. Like with any computer, if you keep continuously power cycling without giving the unit enough time to properly load or save internal system settings, then components can get damaged or files can get corrupted. Some hardware can be more forgiving than others when improper shutdowns/restarts occur, but there is a threshold nonetheless. Sometimes a computer may be able to recover the data upon the next start up, but it's not always guaranteed.

When one suffers a crash, there is always a chance that the integrity of the center board (where the main controller resides) can be compromised on the day of the incident. Internal damage to the center board can lead to where it's unable to properly save the system data at shutdown and not be able to recover it at the next start up. It may be able to recover in order to function properly for future flights, or not be able to recover at all depending how badly it was impacted. Should this occur, the technicians will need to rely on the Go app flight records in order to validate a warranty claim. If this cannot be supplied securely, then unfortunately warranty cannot be applied. It is highly encouraged to have this flight logs available in case the onboard flight data cannot be read due to this potential compromise.
2017-3-16
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DJI-Jamie
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Roger1167 Posted at 2017-3-16 10:05
Can you tell me how to send flight data logs to DJI please I am a newbie

In the Flight Records section of the Go app, there is a cloud icon that is next to your user information. When you select that, you can sync records in 1 month, 6 months or "all" increments.
2017-3-16
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method007
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That's an amazingly uncomplicated way of saying data can be damaged by turning the device on and off.  It's a computer.  Welcome to technology!
2017-3-16
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Kirk2579
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blackcrusader Posted at 2017-3-16 09:55
I did not upload my logs to DJI cloud server until last week. I did however have them up on Healthy drones.  Perhaps better documentation for users should be given so that new users learn how to synch flight logs to DJI App.  Very easy to do.

yea there is so much available sometimes it takes a while to find features and how to setup.
mainly though my post was targeted at OP about the log files in personal device.
long story on that!
2017-3-17
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WA5TEF
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DJI-Jamie Posted at 2017-3-16 11:18
It's not the act of powering the aircraft on/off in of itself that can be the issue. Like with any computer, if you keep continuously power cycling without giving the unit enough time to properly load or save internal system settings, then components can get damaged or files can get corrupted. Some hardware can be more forgiving than others when improper shutdowns/restarts occur, but there is a threshold nonetheless. Sometimes a computer may be able to recover the data upon the next start up, but it's not always guaranteed.

When one suffers a crash, there is always a chance that the integrity of the center board (where the main controller resides) can be compromised on the day of the incident. Internal damage to the center board can lead to where it's unable to properly save the system data at shutdown and not be able to recover it at the next start up. It may be able to recover in order to function properly for future flights, or not be able to recover at all depending how badly it was impacted. Should this occur, the technicians will need to rely on the Go app flight records in order to validate a warranty claim. If this cannot be supplied securely, then unfortunately warranty cannot be applied. It is highly encouraged to have this flight logs available in case the onboard flight data cannot be read due to this potential compromise.

Well, DJI-Jamie, if there is one thing that did not happen was that unit WAS NOT power cycled on and off for any reason!  After It crashed, I flew it maybe 3 or 4 times on very short flights to verify it was air worthy. Also, as the flight records show, I did power it on after I changed the battery and cleaned the mud off the motors.  That is why a 45 second "flight" shows up.  It was sitting on the work desk being checked out, not flown.   Believe me, had I known what I know now about DJI and their service representatives I would have never sent it in for repair!!!!!   I have never seen such actions from any corporation, or LLC.  The error though was on my part because I did my research on DJI before I bought the Phantom 4 and almost did not buy it just because of all the negative publicity and comments that are on the internet.  And everyone knows, if it is on the internet, then it has to be true???  But really, I knew better.  I just hoped remotely that I would get a good one without flaws and defects so I would not have to rely on DJI's support and service.  I hope that others don't have to go through the same thing that I have  had to.....There was a high probability that I could have done the repairs myself because the unit certainly was repairable, not as stated by service.  .  Maybe postings like mine will save someone else from experiencing DJI's actions and comments.
Jim
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2017-3-17
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DJI-Jamie
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WA5TEF Posted at 2017-3-17 11:47
Well, DJI-Jamie, if there is one thing that did not happen was that unit WAS NOT power cycled on and off for any reason!  After It crashed, I flew it maybe 3 or 4 times on very short flights to verify it was air worthy. Also, as the flight records show, I did power it on after I changed the battery and cleaned the mud off the motors.  That is why a 45 second "flight" shows up.  It was sitting on the work desk being checked out, not flown.   Believe me, had I known what I know now about DJI and their service representatives I would have never sent it in for repair!!!!!   I have never seen such actions from any corporation, or LLC.  The error though was on my part because I did my research on DJI before I bought the Phantom 4 and almost did not buy it just because of all the negative publicity and comments that are on the internet.  And everyone knows, if it is on the internet, then it has to be true???  But really, I knew better.  I just hoped remotely that I would get a good one without flaws and defects so I would not have to rely on DJI's support and service.  I hope that others don't have to go through the same thing that I have  had to.....There was a high probability that I could have done the repairs myself because the unit certainly was repairable, not as stated by service.  .  Maybe postings like mine will save someone else from experiencing DJI's actions and comments.
Jim
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When you changed out the battery, that is most likely when the scenario I mentioned prior occurred. The impact compromised its ability to save the incident properly when it was powered off. Again, unfortunately you were not able to supply the Go app flight records as the secondary measure for validating a warranty service. Crashes in of themselves are not covered under warranty, unless there is validation that the crash was the result of a malfunction of the aircraft.

While you had paid an invoice for the prospective damaged parts and estimated labor, you had received a new replacement as a courtesy at a fraction of what it's worth. You are able to continue flying with a completely fresh start part wise.
2017-3-17
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WA5TEF
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DJI-Jamie Posted at 2017-3-17 12:50
When you changed out the battery, that is most likely when the scenario I mentioned prior occurred. The impact compromised its ability to save the incident properly when it was powered off. Again, unfortunately you were not able to supply the Go app flight records as the secondary measure for validating a warranty service. Crashes in of themselves are not covered under warranty, unless there is validation that the crash was the result of a malfunction of the aircraft.

While you had paid an invoice for the prospective damaged parts and estimated labor, you had received a new replacement as a courtesy at a fraction of what it's worth. You are able to continue flying with a completely fresh start part wise.

DJI-Jamie, apparently you too have not read all my posts!  If I had not been able to borrow four retainer springs for the "new" props, I would still have been grounded!  These were promised to be mailed on February 10th and still no springs.

AND:  The repairs I paid for were never done and the parts I paid for were never used, at least on my drone, which was perfectly airworthy as proved by flights on January 22, and January 23 not to mention the one on January 21st, the night of the crash!   I have been told things that were never done, messages left that were never replied to, promises made that were never kept, -----  Oh well,, its all in my posts and in my printed emails.  I would be happy to email them to you should you be interested in seeing exactly who you work for.
Regards,
Jim
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2017-3-18
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Eric13
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"the very act of turning it on and off will ruin the onboard logs"

I don't get it - would that be the solution for many people asking how delete onboard data?
Turning on and off the AC will make onboard data unreadable??
2017-3-18
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WA5TEF
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Eric13 Posted at 2017-3-18 14:30
"the very act of turning it on and off will ruin the onboard logs"

I don't get it - would that be the solution for many people asking how delete onboard data?

Eric13, no, you first must fly your Phantom 4 into the ground from some 200 feet.  OH, I forgot to mention, first you need to turn it over, upside down.  That is not too difficult is it?  DJI does not seem to think it is a rarity since they totally denied my warranty claim.  According to them, there is no explanation to why mine suddenly became inverted and flew upside down into the ground.  I mean, there was absolutely no outside influence on the drone, and I certainly did not flip it, even if I knew how.  So, maybe it was a design error, or a flaw in the firmware, or what?  DJI does not know, or if they do, they will never admit it. I challenged any DJI employee to duplicate my crash without something failing and no one stepped up with an explanation.  None!  And back to your question about deleting onboard data, well no!  Simply cycling digital circuits on and off through the power phase will not delete data, not unless something else is wrong.  I have been an Extra Class Ham Radio operator for many years and have cycled equipment much more sophisticated and sensitive than a Phantom and I have never had a failure from that act.  So, just because someone at DJI tells you something, don't take it as the truth.  It really would be fantastic if DJI's customer service was as reputable as their hardware, afterall, my Phantom actually flew right after it crashed from 200 feet!  However, they won't admit it since I failed to send the flight data logs, plus maybe video of the crash, and oh yeah, a dozen witnesses.  Seems that the simple statements of their customers is not enough anymore.  Now you have to somehow locate the onboard data files, and then figure out what format they are in, and then how to download them, prior to sending them to DJI.  It had been assumed that these files were not known to have even existed, much less allow a customer to actually download them!  And now they will deny a warranty claim unless you can produce these files!  Amazing.
Sorry to have gone off on a tangent from your question Eric but it seems that there is no ending to a story that has  as many variables as this one does.  Hopefully you won't have any crashes that DJI can't explain.  Good luck,
Jim
2017-3-18
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blackcrusader
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WA5TEF All DJI have said is that without data they cannot analyze your claim. That is far different than saying they are refusing your claim.

Also you claim never to have seen data lost as a ham radio operator.  I run servers in my teleport. I can tell you many times where a server has crashed and data was lost. There have been many cases where people  have had their websites and emails from a server host and had all their data lost.  I've had a streaming server been shutdown and it lost the data for the streams.  To say these things can never happen is wrong.

Then you make a claim that the drones have a design fault or a firmware error. If this was the case then many more drones would be crashing upside down.  Also DJI wrote that they replaced your drone with a new one yet say the parts weren't replaced. OK I understand they didn't send the retainer springs that would cause you to be upset.   Your drone could have been hit by a bird and you might have missed it.
From the height it fell and crashed there was certainly bound to be damage. Just because you can't see any doesn't mean there isn't any.  Flight logs are stored both on your drone and on your smart device.  DJI ask people to upload their flights to their DJI could so they can analyze for issues.  

Anyway as you had your drone replaced why not enjoy flying again.  I had a prop come off and crashed into a tea hedge from a low height. It never hit the ground but the remaining 3 props sure took a beating so I replaced them. Now I do not remove my props if I can avoid it. We all want to have crash free flights.  I just assume every time I fly that my craft could crash.  Expecting the expected
2017-3-18
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WA5TEF
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blackcrusader Posted at 2017-3-18 18:08
WA5TEF All DJI have said is that without data they cannot analyze your claim. That is far different than saying they are refusing your claim.

Also you claim never to have seen data lost as a ham radio operator.  I run servers in my teleport. I can tell you many times where a server has crashed and data was lost. There have been many cases where people  have had their websites and emails from a server host and had all their data lost.  I've had a streaming server been shutdown and it lost the data for the streams.  To say these things can never happen is wrong.

Blackcrusader, thanks for your posting.   Apparently you have not read any of my posts since February 2nd?  If you have time, it is good reading.  Might change your opinion of events.
Thanks anyway,
Jim
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2017-3-19
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Mike-the-cat
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DJI-Jamie Posted at 2017-3-16 11:18
It's not the act of powering the aircraft on/off in of itself that can be the issue. Like with any computer, if you keep continuously power cycling without giving the unit enough time to properly load or save internal system settings, then components can get damaged or files can get corrupted. Some hardware can be more forgiving than others when improper shutdowns/restarts occur, but there is a threshold nonetheless. Sometimes a computer may be able to recover the data upon the next start up, but it's not always guaranteed.

When one suffers a crash, there is always a chance that the integrity of the center board (where the main controller resides) can be compromised on the day of the incident. Internal damage to the center board can lead to where it's unable to properly save the system data at shutdown and not be able to recover it at the next start up. It may be able to recover in order to function properly for future flights, or not be able to recover at all depending how badly it was impacted. Should this occur, the technicians will need to rely on the Go app flight records in order to validate a warranty claim. If this cannot be supplied securely, then unfortunately warranty cannot be applied. It is highly encouraged to have this flight logs available in case the onboard flight data cannot be read due to this potential compromise.

Good reply Jamie
2017-3-19
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Mike-the-cat
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WA5TEF Posted at 2017-3-18 17:22
Eric13, no, you first must fly your Phantom 4 into the ground from some 200 feet.  OH, I forgot to mention, first you need to turn it over, upside down.  That is not too difficult is it?  DJI does not seem to think it is a rarity since they totally denied my warranty claim.  According to them, there is no explanation to why mine suddenly became inverted and flew upside down into the ground.  I mean, there was absolutely no outside influence on the drone, and I certainly did not flip it, even if I knew how.  So, maybe it was a design error, or a flaw in the firmware, or what?  DJI does not know, or if they do, they will never admit it. I challenged any DJI employee to duplicate my crash without something failing and no one stepped up with an explanation.  None!  And back to your question about deleting onboard data, well no!  Simply cycling digital circuits on and off through the power phase will not delete data, not unless something else is wrong.  I have been an Extra Class Ham Radio operator for many years and have cycled equipment much more sophisticated and sensitive than a Phantom and I have never had a failure from that act.  So, just because someone at DJI tells you something, don't take it as the truth.  It really would be fantastic if DJI's customer service was as reputable as their hardware, afterall, my Phantom actually flew right after it crashed from 200 feet!  However, they won't admit it since I failed to send the flight data logs, plus maybe video of the crash, and oh yeah, a dozen witnesses.  Seems that the simple statements of their customers is not enough anymore.  Now you have to somehow locate the onboard data files, and then figure out what format they are in, and then how to download them, prior to sending them to DJI.  It had been assumed that these files were not known to have even existed, much less allow a customer to actually download them!  And now they will deny a warranty claim unless you can produce these files!  Amazing.
Sorry to have gone off on a tangent from your question Eric but it seems that there is no ending to a story that has  as many variables as this one does.  Hopefully you won't have any crashes that DJI can't explain.  Good luck,
Jim

DJI sucks ya,.

If you were running this business though, can you share how you would differentiate pilot error claims from equipment malfunction claims? Would you just give out free repairs for pilot error crashes (not saying that you were at fault, this is purely a hypothetical question).

Am really interested in what you have to say. I'm sure you are quite decent at business to afford this hobby.
2017-3-19
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WA5TEF
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Thanks for the post Mike-the-cat:  

Well for one thing, when I was in business before I retired I was sensible enough to realize that sometimes a customer was right, especially if they had done some things as I have done them.  This quest was not an attempt to get DJI to refund the $239.00 repair bill.  It started as a simple question to find out why my drone suddenly became inverted and flew upside down into the ground.  At that time, I expected to get it repaired and returned to me and I needed to know why it happened so I might be ready in case it happened again.  

If you had read my previous postings, you would have seen a trend that started with this simple plea into a line of lies, broken promises, and total incompetence in customer service.  When I started getting the same canned replies to different questions, I started looking around and learning what I could about this company.  I don't remember the exact date I joined this forum but it was right about the same time as the crash.  The more I learned about DJI's customer service the more I realized that they had absolutely no consistency in their treatment of their customers.  One drone pilot would get fast and fair treatment with immediate settlement of a warranty claim while another would get the treatment that I got, some even worse.

I started printing out my emails and if they replied, their copy.  The more I tried to find someone in management, or supervision, the more difficult it became to find anyone who would or could discuss my information with me.  The file of printed email data is over an inch thick now.  I suspected that the "person" I was corresponding with was probably a computer program that had an automated reply not intended to have to answer more than one question.  When confronted with the question again, both in simple language and then in more technical terminology I would get the same general response.  

It finally go to a point that I I called the support line and asked for a supervisor in the United States of America.  After about ten minutes of being transferred around the company I reached someone who said he was that person.  I briefly told him what I was trying to find out about my crashed drone and all I had been through to get this information.  He appeared to be taking notes, even asking for my case number.  He then said that he would try to get me an answer that same afternoon but for sure by the next morning.  I waited all day for his phone call that never came.  Then, I tried calling him using the same approach I had used the first time to get him but this time, during all the transferring and holding for this person to answer, I got disconnected.  THREE TIMES!  I quickly saw that he did not want to talk to me again so I then emailed one of the ladies I had been 'talking to' and requested that a manager or supervisor in the USA call me.  

The next day, he called me wanting to know what he could do for me!  I explained my attempts to find out what I could about my drone and he  had no idea who I was.  I asked his name and when he told me, I realized it was the same person I had spoken with that was supposed to have called me back several days prior.  He then wanted to know what he could do to settle this matter and I again told him all I wanted was to find out what had gone wrong with my Phantom 4 to cause it to do what it did.  He had no idea what I was talking about, only wanting to know what it would take to settle the complaint.  I simply told him that I was not trying to get the $239.00 refunded but only to find out what had gone wrong with my drone to cause it to crash upside down.  But that was not what he was geared up to hear, as he again asked me about the cost of repairs that I had paid.  I again told him I was only trying to find out why my drone crashed and now why no one would simply tell me what the flight data logs revealed.  He admitted that he did not know because he could not find the logs on file but he was still wanting to hear what it would take to settle the matter.  I finally told him that I had already talked to him several days before and that he had already promised to call me back and had not but here he was trying to work out a settlement that I did not want.

I asked him if he had read my file and he avoided the question, several times.  I then told him that I did not want to settle the case, only to find out what had caused the crash and to find my file and catch up on reading my proof and evidence I had submitted and call me back that Friday.  This was on a Wednesday that I talked to him last.  I never heard from him again.  I then called my Attorney General's office and went over my situation with them.  They sent me samples of forms and documentation for me to complete and then send DJI a certified letter outlining the events and what I considered a fair settlement and allow a certain number of days to respond.  If no response then they would proceed.  As of this writing I have heard nothing from them.  All this because they would not, or could not tell me why my drone crashed!  To prove their incompetence or lack of respect for their customers, I get one group telling me that there are no flight data logs on the drone and another telling me that the logs show that no evidence that the crash was a warranty issue.  

So Mike-the-cat, I believe you can see why the customer can sometimes be right and honest and patient and fair all at the same time.  

And still not find out why his drone crashed!

Regards,
Jim
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2017-3-20
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