According official included GUIDE - pull both sticks to the bottom inside cornder to stop the motors (after land). But it will FLIP the drone and damage!!! (phantom 3 professional, updated)

DJI - what are you doing??????

To add to your post correct procedure would be left stick down and hold till motors stop (mode 2)

I'm sure you have been told a million times not to exaggerate!

The procedure you describe will not flip the drone, but it will cause it to tilt over, possibly hitting the props on the ground.  A fairly minor incident, but agreed it is one we would like to avoid.  The description in the heading of your post that it will KILL your drone is completely wrong and irresponsibly misleading.

You must be reading an old guide, the procedure to shut down has been changed for some time following complaints such as yours.  Just like firmware gets upgraded over time to correct problems, manuals and instructions and procedures also get changed.  You need to download the latest manual for your product which will reflect the current practices.  There are probably other changes which you have missed.

endotherm Posted at 2017-3-18 11:58
I'm sure you have been told a million times not to exaggerate!

The procedure you describe will not flip the drone, but it will cause it to tilt over, possibly hitting the props on the ground.  A fairly minor incident, but agreed it is one we would like to avoid.  The description in the heading of your post that it will KILL your drone is completely wrong and irresponsibly misleading.

https://dl.djicdn.com/downloads/ ... _GuideV1.2_0419.pdf

here is link to updated manual (my printed one is the same) - just read how you should stop motors.

That was my first flight. Drone is now unusuble. Endotherm - please, do not write. You have no experience in this situation.

So, it FLIP, not tilt my drone, standing on the ground.

So, if you buy Phantom 3 professional, and, according actual USER GUIDE try to stop your motors - you will make your drone seriously damaged (propellers are broken, body crack. DJI - your reply???

And yes, now I know, that "correct procedure would be left stick down and hold till motors stop".

levisfaustuss Posted at 2017-3-18 13:21
https://dl.djicdn.com/downloads/phantom_3/en/Phantom_3_Professional_Quick_Start_GuideV1.2_0419.pdf

here is link to updated manual (my printed one is the same) - just read how you should stop motors.

Yes, the published and printed guide is wrong, DJI do not have a good record of keeping their documentation up to date. If your aircraft is damaged, then you should file a complaint with DJI informing them that you used the procedure as printed in their guide and it lead to0 your aircraft being damaged. Because that information is bad, they should repair your aircraft under warranty.

However:

'Endotherm - please, do not write. You have no experience in this situation.'

You have no idea whether he is experienced in this situation, and he probably has more experience than you.

My goal is prevent all new users from basic error according official user guide. So, if you just buy as me new copter, do not use OFFICIAL GUIDE way to stop motors after landing! I do not know, why endotherm and Geebax (both from Australia) protect DJI, and nobody official from DJI do not reply, and why DJI simply do not change their USER GUIDE. It is a pity, that this problem is actual on different forums, but on official web we have not valid GUIDE.

levisfaustuss Posted at 2017-3-18 14:40
My goal is prevent all new users from basic error according official user guide. So, if you just buy as me new copter, do not use OFFICIAL GUIDE way to stop motors after landing! I do not know, why endotherm and Geebax (both from Australia) protect DJI, and nobody official from DJI do not reply, and why DJI simply do not change their USER GUIDE. It is a pity, that this problem is actual on different forums, but on official web we have not valid GUIDE.

Back off! I did not protect DJI, in fact if you can actually read and comprehend at all, you will see that I said the Quick Start guide is WRONG. I was actually agreeing with you.

What I did do is point out you were out of line in criticising Endotherm by saying he has no experience. You have no idea what experience he has, you have been here 5 minutes and are attacking the forum members straight off. And what the hell does being Australian have to do with it, are you racist?

Finally, this is a user forum, DJI do not always reply to posts.

The quick start guide you list is fine.
It clearly says hold the left stick down first, then do the CSC, this way it will not tip over as the throttle is down first and you then slide the throttle stick to the corner at the same time as the other stick.
If you just grab the sticks from the mid point and do the CSC there is a slim chance that you will be inputting enough control movement to make the Phantom try and move (tip over) before the motors stop.

This!   First day out with my new p3p all was going fine until I landed.   Tippped over when I did the CSC and broke propellers and kicked up a lot of dirt into the gimbal :-( it see,s OK but I'm not impressed with the faulty guidance in how to land.   FAIL

Don't do this!

Harbourside Posted at 2017-3-18 16:17
The quick start guide you list is fine.
It clearly says hold the left stick down first, then do the CSC, this way it will not tip over as the throttle is down first and you then slide the throttle stick to the corner at the same time as the other stick.
If you just grab the sticks from the mid point and do the CSC there is a slim chance that you will be inputting enough control movement to make the Phantom try and move (tip over) before the motors stop.

No, the guide is wrong. If you use the left stick down method, the motors stop and there is no need to do a CSC. And if you do a CSC before the motors stop, you will more than likely tip your aircraft over.

Harbourside Posted at 2017-3-18 16:17
The quick start guide you list is fine.
It clearly says hold the left stick down first, then do the CSC, this way it will not tip over as the throttle is down first and you then slide the throttle stick to the corner at the same time as the other stick.
If you just grab the sticks from the mid point and do the CSC there is a slim chance that you will be inputting enough control movement to make the Phantom try and move (tip over) before the motors stop.

no, that is not true! If you hold the lef stick down first and than, non stop, do the CSC it will not stop the motor in P3P! It will be same crash!

sean808080 Posted at 2017-3-18 16:38
Don't do this!

Yes, that is the same situation!

When I bought my first Phantom in August 2016 the guide DID state to use the csc method to shut down the motors on landing.
My first ever landing was on grass and after performing the csc the Phantom unceremoniously flipped backwards on the grass with props still spinning until they dug far enough into the lawn to stop.
So I have been there and done that.......but only the once!
I can imagine though if it had been on hard ground or maybe gravel it could probably of caused some damage to my brand new product.
So I can understand the OP's frustration.

Yup. Same situation. It was maybe 3rd flight, and then when i wanted to turn off motors, my drone flipped backward and the props touched the grass. thanks god the grass and the ground was so soft. My drone become only dirty, but that was really stressful situation. After that I only turn off motors with left stick.

levisfaustuss Posted at 2017-3-18 13:21
https://dl.djicdn.com/downloads/phantom_3/en/Phantom_3_Professional_Quick_Start_GuideV1.2_0419.pdf

here is link to updated manual (my printed one is the same) - just read how you should stop motors.

What you have linked to is the Quick Start Guide, made in 2015.  The manual has far more information that you need to read and know, otherwise you will encounter more problems that aren't mentioned in the QSG and you will be back on the forums asking for help again.  The manual was changed to include the other method for shutdown.  Both methods are listed, but the left-stick-down method is preferred.  Here is the full User Manual v1.8, the latest revision.

Why DJI haven't removed that method from the manual and quickstart guide is unknown.  That method does still work but it can have unintended consequences.  Perhaps send them an email or contact their support office directly and ask them.  This is a public forum and DJI do not always read nor respond to posts here.  Sometimes their employees do take part in the discussions, but this is not the way to get changes made.

If you have successfully landed the aircraft but the motors are still running, you will notice they are running quite slowly at an idle.  Technically, it is spinning the props with just enough power to sustain that altitude, which isn't a lot because the ground is supporting the weight.  If you then do a CSC, it will try to do a weak right turn and move left and back as you move into the CSC position.  This is only for a few milliseconds, but it has the result of tipping the body diagonally through one of the rear arms, and depending on the terrain could also result in the prop hitting the ground. This in turn causes the whole aircraft to lean back onto the back arms causing both props to hit the ground before the motors are disarmed.  It should not be a particularly violent action at all unless there are other factors e.g. a strong wind pushing it over.

Now, if you have performed a CSC before the aircraft is on the ground fully, the motors will still be spinning quite quickly, supporting the whole weight of the aircraft.  The resultant incident will be far more energetic, and classed as a crash.   Maybe you were a little too quick to perform the CSC as it was your first flight?  Perhaps wait a bit longer until it is on the ground fully, and the motors slow to idle before stopping them.

There is no way a CSC tilt-over will destroy the aircraft as you make out.  A CSC from any altitude in-flight can cause a crash, even if performed only inches above the ground.  There is even a warning in the manual not to do a CSC in flight or it will fall out of the sky and crash.  If you did manage to flip the aircraft as you say, you must have done a CSC in the air.  But then you would have other problems which you did not describe.  If it flipped over on its back, it will not respond to shutdown commands from the remote and you will need to manually turn off the battery or disconnect it.  You would have complained of this, or smoking/burning motors or ESC.

So if you have killed or destroyed your drone, it is likely pilot error.  If you just clipped the props on shutdown, you would have followed DJI's instructions as published and would have a case to lodge a complaint with them.  But it would not have killed anything.

Perhaps if you include the extent of the damage, we could tell if your description is exaggerated or not and advise you of what is involved in fixing it.  You may not be aware but these aircraft contain a flight data recorder which is also transmitted to your controller and recorded on your device.  You can upload them and share them here so we can see EXACTLY what happened and what you did, and advise you further.  That record is sent to DJI by the Go App and they get to see exactly what happened as well, should you try to make a warranty claim etc.  It is pointless making things up or exaggerating because the facts in the flight log are all that matter.

You aren't the first person to have had this happen to you and I've read many on the forums complaining of the same thing.  None have had their aircraft destroyed or burst into flames.  I personally have shut my motors down using this very technique.  Every time was a minor tilt or lean over.  A few times my props clipped the landing surface (a carpet offcut, so no damage to my props from gravel etc.), plus I regularly fly with prop guards in place.   In time the procedure was revised and I have never performed a CSC on the ground since. So I think I am experienced enough to offer you advice.  You are probably going to get more help on the forums by not snapping at people trying to assist you.

You also mention you have "(phantom 3 professional, updated)", which I read to mean it has been updated to firmware 1.10.90.  This firmware increased the shutdown time from about a quarter of a second to 3 seconds.  If you are flying on this firmware, and tried a CSC on the ground this may have created a more violent situation for a longer period.  As the aircraft has no concept of "being on the ground", it thinks it is always flying until the motors are shut down.  Having the aircraft lean over after landing, but waiting 3 seconds for the motors to disarm would be an eternity, and during that time the motors would be spinning up from idle quite severely, as distinct from previous firmware.  This possibly could cause the props to strike the ground ferociously, and possibly damage the aircraft body, or cause it to tumble over.  Yours would be the first post I have read of this happening to someone if this is the case.  Most people on 1.10.90 would be experienced enough to use the left-stick-down method.

it seems, that DJI pay for trolling instead take responsibility

levisfaustuss Posted at 2017-3-19 04:34
it seems, that DJI pay for trolling instead take responsibility

So instead of all the smart ass comments, how about you help us to help you?  Why won't you share details of the damage, your flight logs, your firmware revision, etc?  Something to hide?  Many first time users come on to the forum to have a sook, then run away never to be heard of again.  Who is trolling who?  There is plenty of material in my last post for you to consider, and a few scenarios which might apply to you.  Maybe it's your fault, maybe it isn't.  Maybe we end up supporting you 100%.  So, provide us with some actual evidence.  You are wasting everyone's time otherwise, and I could be using my time replying to someone else that might be grateful for my input.  We already agree with you that that part of the manual/guide is badly worded and should be changed, and you may have a case to take to DJI directly.  I'm not sure what else you are expecting from us here.  DJI aren't going to answer your concerns here either.

levisfaustuss Posted at 2017-3-19 04:34
it seems, that DJI pay for trolling instead take responsibility

The manual provides two options to stop your motors. It is logical to think that moving your control features (sticks) at all will cause the aircraft to respond.  Method 2, as illustrated in the manual, works without placing horizontal input on the sticks.

Using  method 2, the software in the aircraft turns off the motors off after determining that there is no negative height change (descent) for 3 seconds.

levisfaustuss Posted at 2017-3-19 04:34
it seems, that DJI pay for trolling instead take responsibility

You have just been given a substantial amount of genuine advice yet you seem rather ungrateful, I suspect you now realize that you have to bear the bulk of the responsibility for your prang but don't want to admit it to this forum.

DJI often do answer posters on this forum when they can see a genuine reason however I doubt if they will come in on this one on the current evidence.

levisfaustuss Posted at 2017-3-19 04:34
it seems, that DJI pay for trolling instead take responsibility

Such drama!

I had no idea that the non-DJI employees (many of which had given you useful advice), were PAID by DJI to TROLL you.

If that's the case, how DARE the DJI employees take the weekend off! Someone, please call them and get them out of their beds, quickly -- WE HAVE A P!SSED OFF USER THAT CANNOT WAIT UNTIL MONDAY!!

Serious reply: thanks for the warning that all new users should read. As for your tone towards other users that were helpful, don't expect them to help you any further. I certainly won't.

Chris

endotherm Posted at 2017-3-18 11:58
I'm sure you have been told a million times not to exaggerate!

The procedure you describe will not flip the drone, but it will cause it to tilt over, possibly hitting the props on the ground.  A fairly minor incident, but agreed it is one we would like to avoid.  The description in the heading of your post that it will KILL your drone is completely wrong and irresponsibly misleading.

The first time I did the both sticks down and inside my drone flipped over. This happened while on the ground as I landed. So in my experience as it happened more than once. Once I realized what I had done. I was back to landing perfectly. I believe one should never pull both sticks down to the inside unless to start motors. Mine flipped over a total of 3 times doing what was in the manual.

endotherm Posted at 2017-3-19 02:29
What you have linked to is the Quick Start Guide, made in 2015.  The manual has far more information that you need to read and know, otherwise you will encounter more problems that aren't mentioned in the QSG and you will be back on the forums asking for help again.  The manual was changed to include the other method for shutdown.  Both methods are listed, but the left-stick-down method is preferred.  Here is the full User Manual v1.8, the latest revision.

Why DJI haven't removed that method from the manual and quickstart guide is unknown.  That method does still work but it can have unintended consequences.  Perhaps send them an email or contact their support office directly and ask them.  This is a public forum and DJI do not always read nor respond to posts here.  Sometimes their employees do take part in the discussions, but this is not the way to get changes made.

{If you did manage to flip the aircraft as you say, you must have done a CSC in the air.  But then you would have other problems which you did not describe.} Mine flipped over on the top when it was solidly on the ground more than once. The first time I was in shock as I had done what the manual says. Now I never CSC except to start motors. I land and shut down motors with the left stick only.

BaconNBeer Posted at 2017-3-19 18:02
{If you did manage to flip the aircraft as you say, you must have done a CSC in the air.  But then you would have other problems which you did not describe.} Mine flipped over on the top when it was solidly on the ground more than once. The first time I was in shock as I had done what the manual says. Now I never CSC except to start motors. I land and shut down motors with the left stick only.

Thanks for your (more detailed) input.  Can you confirm what version of the firmware your aircraft is running?  If you read the last paragraph especially of my post above http://forum.dji.com/forum.php?m ... 8136&fromuid=126111, I suspect there MAY be a new condition which could be responsible for flipping it over completely.  As I have said, my experience with this condition from reading dozens of previous posts supports the observation that it will not invert with a CSC.  However the latest firmware does introduce a very long period before shutting down and the motors spin up, which might be responsible for a severe flip.

BaconNBeer Posted at 2017-3-19 18:02
{If you did manage to flip the aircraft as you say, you must have done a CSC in the air.  But then you would have other problems which you did not describe.} Mine flipped over on the top when it was solidly on the ground more than once. The first time I was in shock as I had done what the manual says. Now I never CSC except to start motors. I land and shut down motors with the left stick only.

OK I can confirm there is a problem.

I have just performed an experiment and deliberately crashed the aircraft to reproduce the problem.

Details to follow.

I hovered my aircraft a P3A running 1.10.90 over a thick grassed strip outside my house in an urban environment with lots of steel/concrete and buildings etc. nearby.  There were wind gusts (reported at up to 18km/h @10m), not overly powerful at the time but I faced the aircraft into the wind for the tests, so the gusts could only assist in flipping the body.  I also fitted prop guards to minimize the damage.  I repeated the test three times.

1. After hovering momentarily, I landed.  I performed an inward CSC and observed that the aircraft tilted backwards as expected, in exactly the same manner as observed with earlier firmware.   The motors "surged" slightly as they ran slightly faster, but it was not particularly powerful or noticeable.  The CSC took longer to cut off, but there was minimal contact with the ground and the prop guards.  The props did not foul the guards or dig in to the ground.  Without the guards I would say there would have been some prop damage, but it did not look energetic enough to flip to inverted.

2. I repeated the test.  This time there was a much stronger gust as I landed.  It was exactly the same as before with a gentle tilt only.  The wind gust seemed to help push it over but it was just a standard tilt.

3.  The test was repeated again, but with a similar wind gust as before.  This time the aircraft landed awkwardly as a foot of the landing gear sat on a taller clump of grass and was not completely level.  I performed the CSC.  The aircraft rocked and tilted over but it was not a violent leap into the air.  I could hear one of the props chopping  against the prop guard.  As the CSC was counting down, I saw it roll over slowly, I'm unsure if it was just the prop thrust or if it was combined with the wind, but it did roll over slowly.  It seemed to tilt upwards through 135°, so it was halfway between standing on its side, and being upside down with one motor stalling as the prop was obstructed.  I held the CSC for around 10 seconds and the motors kept on spinning, revved up slightly.  It did not respond to the controller command due to being upside down.  I manually righted the aircraft and turned off the power.  The only damage I sustained in any of these tests was a single crack on one of the prop guards, which would still be usable.

I'm sure if the terrain was more severe or rocky and I had not fitted prop guards, the rollover would have been more spectacular and the prop damage more severe.  From what I saw though, the forces involved were not sufficient to pick the aircraft up and slam it on the ground like a rag doll.

I conclude that the introduction of a 3 second dely to the CSC introduces a danger that was not there previously.  I hope DJI will re-examine this issue and remove the long delay so that a rollover from a non-responsive aircraft does not cause damage.

I'm in the process of retrieving and syncing the flight records and video recordings.  I will be contacting DJI about the matter.  It appears 3 seconds is far too long to disarm the motors once it is on the ground, and just gives time for something to go wrong.  I never liked them increasing the delay, which was introduced to keep a certain vocal group happy to prevent them performing an accidental CSC in flight, despite how incredibly improbable that would be.

Not A Speck Of  Posted at 2017-3-19 09:20
Such drama!

I had no idea that the non-DJI employees (many of which had given you useful advice), were PAID by DJI to TROLL you.

The OP obviously doesn't understand this forum. He thinks we are all DJI employees.
No matter what his problem is, it is not acceptable to be so rude and aggressiv.
I'm surprised users are still willing to reply or help.

Last night, I took my P3A out for the first time in weeks. I had it hover by my head. I grabbed the landing gear with my right hand. With the remote in my left hand, I pushed the left joystick down and held it for a second and the rotors turned off.

Thanks guys for mentioning this. I've relayed it to the team so they can fix anything that isn't accurate anymore.

DJI Joe Posted at 2017-3-20 10:32
Thanks guys for mentioning this. I've relayed it to the team so they can fix anything that isn't accurate anymore.

Thanks.  Aside from the procedure in the manual that probably needs modification, that 3 second delay on the ground was probably overlooked when they extended the CSC duration in the air.  They probably need to perform their own experiment to believe this.  I couldn't consistently create a problem, but it is createable.  It is less likely to happen if the sticks are snapped quickly to the CSC position.  If the sticks travel slowly into position it is interpreted as motor movements over a longer time.

Glad to say after a thorough cleaning my new p3p is good as good.  No Csc to land ever!   Got the hang of catching the drone and powering down via left stick.  Thanks all!

sean808080 Posted at 2017-3-20 18:00
Glad to say after a thorough cleaning my new p3p is good as good.  No Csc to land ever!   Got the hang of catching the drone and powering down via left stick.  Thanks all!

A slow gentle descent and when settled on the ground the left stick fully down is the simplest way to land and shutdown.

Hand catching is fine in some situations but I would not use it all the time.

Cabansail Posted at 2017-3-20 19:11
A slow gentle descent and when settled on the ground the left stick fully down is the simplest way to land and shutdown.

Hand catching is fine in some situations but I would not use it all the time.

Agreed but after the snafus I'm a little leery of touching down.   I'll get over it with time.   Thanks.

Cabansail Posted at 2017-3-20 19:11
A slow gentle descent and when settled on the ground the left stick fully down is the simplest way to land and shutdown.

Hand catching is fine in some situations but I would not use it all the time.

Everyone to his own but I hate to see all the dust and sand being thrown up into the motors and grass being mown by the props when landing on the ground. The Phantoms are so stable that it is simple to bring them down to head height a few metres away, walk out, grab a leg and push the left stick down. I never do it any other way.

Same here always hand caught.

Propwash Posted at 2017-3-18 10:56
To add to your post correct procedure would be left stick down and hold till motors stop (mode 2)

exactly what i do!

i just checked my P3 advanced, and to start you have to pull both sticks to the inside corner, and to stop, just hold down the left stick, and that suprised me
because i fought that it would  be the same as when you start the motors, because this is dangerous because i often pull the left stick down when i want to
descent fast when i flight, so i must have bin very lucky until now, and good that i found this topic, because else it would have become a disaster
waiting to happen.
And the strange thing is that i don't update my P3 advanced anymore, because if does fly well, and i did flew it once 1,5 mile away without any signal loss,
and it takes pictures, it shoots video's, and it lands at it's homepoint as it should, so why would i have to update when it's working fine as it is?
And i didn't follow the latest news and so on, so i don't have a clue if an update would restrict the range or maximum height because of the new
laws here in europe.
But i would love to change the way to stop the motors into both sticks into the corner, so is there a way to set it back like that?
because i'm not happy with this only left stick pull down to shut the engines off.

fansfeec6974 Posted at 2017-4-14 14:34
i just checked my P3 advanced, and to start you have to pull both sticks to the inside corner, and to stop, just hold down the left stick, and that suprised me
because i fought that it would  be the same as when you start the motors, because this is dangerous because i often pull the left stick down when i want to
descent fast when i flight, so i must have bin very lucky until now, and good that i found this topic, because else it would have become a disaster

'But i would love to change the way to stop the motors into both sticks into the corner, so is there a way to set it back like that? because i'm not happy with this only left stick pull down to shut the engines off.'

Using the left stick down methods to stop the motors is not going to cause the motors to shut down when you are in flight. It only shuts the motors down on landing because it detects that the aircraft is not descending any longer.

Wel that's good news then, and that must be the reason why it didn't crash before.  Thanks for the tip.
Btw, do you also know if there are updates that ruin the range and height after the new laws?
Because i don't dare to update, and it works fine as it is right now, so would you recomend an update anyways?
current status:
Tablet android: 4.4.2
App: 3.1.5
Version: 1.8.8.0
Remote controller: 1.6.0

It is quite clever logic. The operating system knows how much power it needs to stay airborne and to descend. When the power is below that to maintain flight and there is no change in altitude then it can be very certain that it has landed. The only scenarios I can see that would cause a problem would be a consistent updraft of just the right force to hold it in a hover with little power input or an altimeter which got stuck.