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4507 54 2015-2-27
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marcfrdly.yahoo
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I would like to appeal to the court of public opinion from theInspire community, in regards to the crash of my Inspire on 25/Jan/2015. Belowis the unedited information I sent DJI:
My Pre-Flight procedure:
I unpacked the craft from the case and placed on the groundon a flat dirt surface. I inserted the battery, and powered on the Inspire. Ithen connected my IPad Air 2, via the factory cable, to the controller, poweredon the controller, and started the app. I then used the app to take the craftout of travel mode. After this I attached the camera/gimbal, and inserted amemory card. I then moved the Inspire into a large open area, powered on thecraft, controller and app. I then performed an IMU advanced calibration, andthe app performed a basic calibration. I then checked the IPad Air 2 to ensureit was in airplane mode, Bluetooth and Wi-Fi were disabled, and removed my keysand cell phone and placed them in my vehicle. I then performed a compasscalibration. After the compass calibration, I again checked the IMU settingsand found them all within the ranges found in the Inspire forums. I accessedthe Failsafe Height and changed it to 25m to ensure it would clear anyobstructions if RTH was needed. I then attached and tightened the propellers,tightened them until I could get no more movement. I then checked the status ofthe GPS, which showed full bars, and ensured I had a green led on the Inspire1. I then powered on the motors, and let them spin for 30-40 seconds, thenraised the craft about 2m manually to a hover. I then transformed the landinggear, and let the craft hover hear for about 90sec.
Details of the incident:
(It is of significance to note, this was my first flightpost the new firmware update, so I was very cautious.)  After the above described sequence, I broughtthe craft up to about 18-19m and observed the craft while giving it some input,forward and back, left right, to observe its handling post firmware. Everythinglooked rock solid, so I brought the craft down to about 3 meters and flew itout towards the river on its intended flight path (also began recording here).As the craft passed over the bank, which sits about 2-3m above the river, Inoticed that the Inspire seemed to dip a couple feet, as if it was reacting tothe change in terrain (Referenced as 1st: above). I corrected the altitude up acouple of feet with the controller and continued the craft out over the area inthe intended route I wanted to fly. Shortly I turned the craft north, and flewa couple hundred feet. At this point, the craft was obscured from my view by astand of trees, so I left the craft in a hover, observed through the videofeed, and began to walk towards a new location so that I could see the craft.After a few steps, I heard a loud noise followed by a pause and then a secondloud noise. I looked to the IPAD screen and saw only black. I then ran forward,and two fishermen who had been watching the craft stated that the Inspire"hit the power lines and went into the water".  I raced to a parallel location on the bank,and directed by them, wade/swam to the crash site. Here I found the Inspire,the battery separated and destroyed, sitting in about 12 inches of water. Thegimbal/camera was detached, about 4 feet away in about 2 ft. of water. After Irecovered the Inspire and got back to the bank, I asked the fisherman if theysaw what happened. One of them stated (I am quoting this from memory) "Isaw it fly forward and stop, then I looked away. The next thing I heard anoise, and I saw the back end lift up when it hit the power line, then itdropped onto the rocks, spun for a second then went into the water."

2015-2-27
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CrabHawk
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it should have stayed right where you last gave it input (IF you did not lose GPS signal)
2015-2-27
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marcfrdly.yahoo
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I am posting all of this because DJI's response was a blanket email providing instructions on how to calibrate the compass, and then an offer to sell me a new Inspire at a 30% discount. I would like to appeal to the Inspire community, and get their opinion if this is being handled correctly. I have found numerous posts on this of similar incidents of loss of control. so I feel that this is not my fault. I also feel that i was flying the craft with due diligence in regards to the safeguards I took pre and during the flight. All opinions welcomed, and I am trying to upload pictures to these posts as well. One last thing, the video card was recovered, but I am unable to view the video. If anyone knows of any way to repair a video, please let me know, as I believe this would shed a great deal of light on my problem.
2015-2-27
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marcfrdly.yahoo
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2015-2-27
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marcfrdly.yahoo
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https://www.flickr.com/photos/98488822@N05/16638185396/
2015-2-27
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marcfrdly.yahoo
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https://www.flickr.com/photos/98488822@N05/16041807284/
2015-2-27
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marcfrdly.yahoo
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The key for the Pictures:
1= Take off point
2= Position of witnesses
3= Crash site
Dashed blue line= Position I was at to control the flight, and shows the direction of my brief movement.
2015-2-27
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marcfrdly.yahoo
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Crabhawk:
I don't believe I ever lost GPS. The flight record in the App shows logs the movement of the craft all through the flight, and shows the craft rising about 4 meters at the end.
2015-2-27
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jhogge
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Best you can do is get DJI the flight logs to examine any possible failure that can be identified in the logs.

Other than that.. you will have a hard time proving that the crash was not operator error.

I am not saying that IT IS operator error. I am just saying you would need to prove otherwise which will be difficult without something captured in the logs to backup your version of events.
2015-2-27
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dwartenburg
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I have to agree with jhogge, most likely it was some type of firmware glitch. However, proving that theory is a completely different story. Unless you have COMPLETE flight logs and/or video proof... it will most likely be tagged as pilot error.

Sorry for your mishap.
2015-2-27
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CrabHawk
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marcfrdly.yahoo Posted at 2015-2-28 01:27
Crabhawk:
I don't believe I ever lost GPS. The flight record in the App shows logs the movement of t ...

Crazy, I have to agree with these other guys Unless you can show some inconsistencies in the data log it will be like pulling teeth to convince DJI that it is some form of firmware/software glitch.
2015-2-27
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Dave E
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Marc I am sorry to hear about your inspire crash. I note that the fishermen stated that the aircraft hit the power lines. Did you confirm that there were actually power lines above the site of the crash or were the fishermen mistaken?   
2015-2-27
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marcfrdly.yahoo
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Thanks for the input guys. Unfortunately,Ii have a craft that has a destroyed battery, which I believe is required to extract information from the craft. I do have a corrupt video file that I cant view, but regardless, DJI has never asked me for the flight logs from the beginning. Once I told the support guy the craft went into the water, he told me that they could not take the craft for repair. I am just beyond devastated over the loss of the craft, plus the financial loss. I do have the flight log from the app, that shows the craft stopping, then rising about 4 meters while moving forward slightly. I realize that no one who has had a crash ever thinks its their fault, but I was literally a day one pre order, and I think i got less than ten flights before this happened.
2015-2-27
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Dave E
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marc I have looked at your flight path pics and there do look to be power lines crossing the picture at the site of the crash point 3. Can you confirm that this is correct?
2015-2-27
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jhogge
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"I am just beyond devastated over the loss of the craft, plus the financial loss."

I feel for you, that really sucks.

But this is something that can happen to any drone hobbyist and part of the risk we accept.

I have seen offers made where others want to purchase crashed Inspire 1's - if in the end there is no repair option for you, maybe you can recoup some cost that way and take advantage of the 30% off a new Inspire 1 to get back flying again.

Again, sucks and i feel bad for you.
2015-2-27
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marcfrdly.yahoo
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Dave E Posted at 2015-2-28 04:25
marc I have looked at your flight path pics and there do look to be power lines crossing the picture ...

That is correct. The power lines were the only hazard to the craft in the whole area, as the river is about 300 yards wide at that point. As i piloted the craft in the direction of the power lines, I stopped the craft short, and left it in a hover, and was in the process of walking about 15 yards to a new position, to continue the flight. When i stopped the craft, i knew I was WELL below the power lines. It was my intention to hold the position of the craft there, change my vantage point, and then fly the craft underneath the power lines.  It was during this brief period of changing positions that i heard the craft crash. One of the fishermen witnessed the craft fly into the power lines, and stated that the back end was lifting up as it made contact, before the craft dropped. This says to me the the craft was also moving forward and up.
2015-2-27
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Dave E
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Sorry about this marc but you have asked for opinions.
In my opinion there are 3 issues here.
Firstly, you flew your aircraft out of sight even if only temporarily. This should never be done, even with FPV equipment and a spotter. Secondly, you flew near power lines. This again should never be done because of the risks of interference and damage if things go wrong.
Thirdly your distance and height perception and ability to judge proximity at the distances you mention is very limited. It would therefore have been very difficult to ascertain how close your craft really was to the power lines, particularly because of the angles involved.
My verdict is pilot error.......... even if the aircraft suffered a glitch. A glitch or gps drop out could have been the result of interference from the power lines.
Thankfully nobody was hurt as a result of the crash.
I really feel for your loss marc and it is not my intention to offend you in any way.
My bluntness is intended only to warn others. I hope that everyone who reads this post will keep it in mind and assess their flying areas for risks prior to flight. We are flying a highly technical highly sensitive piece of equipment that in the wrong circumstances is capable of killing somebody. This has actually happened with other model aircraft. Please folks, fly safely.   
2015-2-27
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jhogge
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"Thirdly your distance and height perception and ability to judge proximity at the distances you mention is very limited"

I can attest that this is true after I crashed my Inspire 1 due to judging height at a distance incorrectly. Depth perception at distance is hard to read accurately and I crashed as a result. Hard lesson to learn although I was luck enough that I was able to pay to have mine repaired.
2015-2-27
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Tahoe_Ed
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Marc, please contact DJI.  We can extract the information from the FC mounted SD card and determine what happened.  I have my own theory but again that is pure speculation and does no one any good.  We should be able to assist.  Go to DJI.com/Support and contact the Customer Service Center nearest you.  I am sorry for your loss and I am sure you would like to know what happened.
2015-2-27
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marcfrdly.yahoo
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Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2015-2-28 07:03
Marc, please contact DJI.  We can extract the information from the FC mounted SD card and determine  ...

Tahoe Ed:
I contacted DJI service via the number provided from the online chat. The DJI rep that I have been dealing with is Anthony C. Do you have a alternative contact?
2015-2-27
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marcfrdly.yahoo
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Dave E Posted at 2015-2-28 05:55
Sorry about this marc but you have asked for opinions.
In my opinion there are 3 issues here.
First ...

Dave E, thanks for your candor. I Totally understand your point of view on this, however, I due disagree on a couple of points. When I used to fly RC airplanes, we would find the largest field, as completely free from obstacles as possible, due to the limitations of the craft. These crafts are marketed and sold with capabilities that should allow the aircraft to be controlled in a manner we couldn't imagine having back then, with or without gps. In my opinion, at the price point and with the features touted, the operator should be able to not have visual control over the craft for a matter of less than one minute, which is the time frame in this incident. Also, I totally agree with your point in regards to the point of depth perception, which is why I had planned to stop the craft short and well below in the first place.
2015-2-27
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marcfrdly.yahoo
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Dave E Posted at 2015-2-28 05:55
Sorry about this marc but you have asked for opinions.
In my opinion there are 3 issues here.
First ...

Dave E, thanks for your candor. I Totally understand your point of view on this, however, I due disagree on a couple of points. When I used to fly RC airplanes, we would find the largest field, as completely free from obstacles as possible, due to the limitations of the craft. These crafts are marketed and sold with capabilities that should allow the aircraft to be controlled in a manner we couldn't imagine having back then, with or without gps. In my opinion, at the price point and with the features touted, the operator should be able to not have visual control over the craft for a matter of less than one minute, which is the time frame in this incident. Also, I totally agree with your point in regards to the point of depth perception, which is why I had planned to stop the craft short and well below in the first place.
2015-2-27
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Tahoe_Ed
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marcfrdly.yahoo Posted at 2015-2-28 09:53
Tahoe Ed:
I contacted DJI service via the number provided from the online chat. The DJI rep that I ...

Anthony is the CS Lead.  He is the person you should be dealing with.
2015-2-27
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Dave E
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marc thank you for your response. I fly Rc aircraft both fixed wing and heli's and you are right, a few years ago we would never have dreamt of the technology we have today. Can you imagine what will be available in 5 years time.
A point of note is that in the UK it is against FAA rules to fly out of the pilots line of sight or a spotters line of sight, with or without FPV equipment. This may be relaxed in the future if drones have collision avoidance technology but we will have to wait and see. This is one of the sticking points for Amazons drone delivery idea.
I hope you get a positive outcome from DJI.
2015-2-28
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Dangair
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In addition to the above mentioned potential contributing factors, I wonder if flying over water near power lines and not within line of sight is appropriate for a first flight? Seems mighty risky. I would at least want to bug proof the aircraft with several preflights in a totally un obstructed area. Water is unforgiving on electrical equipment and requires experience and or the willingness to except the consequences of failure. Having crashed an ultrlight airplane due to pilot error I can attest it is hard to accept the blow. At least when you crash an RC aircraft you walk away from it unharmed. Perhaps it was a glitch and you may be compensated, but I still think you made some bad decisions there. I do feel your pain though.
2015-2-28
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Jscgaston
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marcfrdly.yahoo Posted at 2015-2-28 04:13
Thanks for the input guys. Unfortunately,Ii have a craft that has a destroyed battery, which I belie ...

It sucks.... I crashed my Inspire in the water 10 days ago( my fault). Feel your pain, it gets better after a few weeks! I still haven't found it. Had to hide the FB groups from my feed, so I didn't see Inspire pictures for the first week.
2015-2-28
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marcfrdly.yahoo
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Dangair Posted at 2015-2-28 17:45
In addition to the above mentioned potential contributing factors, I wonder if flying over water nea ...

This was not my first flight, it was my first flights post firmware update. In hindsight, I do agree with you that another site might would have helped to see how the craft reacted to the update.
2015-2-28
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marcfrdly.yahoo
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Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2015-2-28 12:32
Anthony is the CS Lead.  He is the person you should be dealing with.

Thanks. I Provided a link to the video file in the form that I filled out and sent in, the meat of which you can read in my first post. Best I can tell, the file has not been viewed by DJI. I Think that the answers lie in the video. I Did not start this post as the typical "DJI is screwing me" post, or at least it was not my intention. In hindsight, since the two fisherman we're in the spot I wanted to control from, which would have given me a better vantage point, I should have waited,not flown etc. Anyways, thanks for posting.
2015-2-28
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Dangair
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marcfrdly.yahoo Posted at 2015-2-28 23:00
This was not my first flight, it was my first flights post firmware update. In hindsight, I do agr ...

Just to set the record straight, we will all crash at some point. If you fly long enough, you will crash. I only made an observation based on information supplied. Pilot error is the leading cause of all crashes. Why? Because the pilot is in charge. It is our decision to endanger our aircraft simply by leaving the ground. This is why I mentioned on another post about flying over a populated area that it doesn't matter that a DJI copter had a glitch and the copter fell out of the sky on someone's head. You are  the PIC and your VISA can be traced to your copters serial number. Keep that in the back of your mind while you are shooting vid over the freeway. Again, just putting it out there as a gentle reminder.
2015-2-28
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marcfrdly.yahoo
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Does anyone know how to fix a video that wont open from the Inspire?
2015-3-2
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nigel.keene
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Dangair Posted at 2015-2-28 17:45
In addition to the above mentioned potential contributing factors, I wonder if flying over water nea ...

I have to also agree I think flying anywhere close to power lines should be avoided. On the odd occasion I thought I was flying over them high enough I lost video signal so I clearly wasn't. Anyway sorry to hear your story, I know I would be gutted.
2015-3-2
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marcfrdly.yahoo
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I see the point about the power lines. But these power lines are almost 60 feet in the air above the area I was flying, but I do see your point. Thanks for posting.
2015-3-2
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Dave E
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marc usually if your video hasn't been finalised by stopping the recording manually, it will not open on a computer. This is probably what happened during your crash. If you put the sd card back into the inspire camera and take another short clip and stop it, it also finalises the first one so that it can be opened. I don't know whether this is still possible with your bird??
2015-3-2
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AlaskaDrone
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Could the water underneath the drone given a flase signal? Can't water become a problem with regard to heigth?
2015-3-2
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marcfrdly
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Dave E Posted at 2015-3-2 23:05
marc usually if your video hasn't been finalised by stopping the recording manually, it will not ope ...

Dave E:
Unfortunately I will not be able to fix the video by that method. Do you know if it has to be the same Inspire?
2015-3-2
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marcfrdly
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AlaskaDrone Posted at 2015-3-3 03:49
Could the water underneath the drone given a flase signal? Can't water become a problem with regard  ...

Alaska :
I am not aware if this could have been the issue or not. The Inspire was 10-15 meters above the water in a hover when the accident occurred.
2015-3-2
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Dave E
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marc I seem to remember that two guys from here met up to solve this exact problem with a second inspire however I cannot find the post. Maybe you could start a post to see if there is anyone near you. I live in the UK but if you get stuck you can send your sd card to me and I could try the above method and send it back to you.   
2015-3-3
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DJI-Beta
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marcfrdly.yahoo Posted at 2015-2-28 04:13
Thanks for the input guys. Unfortunately,Ii have a craft that has a destroyed battery, which I belie ...

were you doing recording when the craft happened? If so, this recorded video is best material for investigation. Sent it to DJI.
2015-3-3
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marcfrdly
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DJI-Beta Posted at 2015-3-3 17:43
were you doing recording when the craft happened? If so, this recorded video is best material for  ...

DJI- Beta-

In the incident form that i filled out post crash, I included a Dropbox link to the video that was being recorded when the crash occurred.
2015-3-3
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marcfrdly
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Dave E Posted at 2015-3-3 17:38
marc I seem to remember that two guys from here met up to solve this exact problem with a second ins ...

Dave E:

Thanks, I will look around for that thread, and thank you for your offer. I hopefully will be able to recover the video file by other means. Also, thanks for your continued input on my thread, your input is greatly appreciated.
2015-3-3
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