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Mayday - MAVIC Crash Investigation
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taus
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RedTailHawk36 Posted at 2017-4-19 07:02
Exactly what I was thinking. Where is the flight log video with controller inputs?

I already wrote that I did not do the shutdown. It would be in the log files (overlaying them one the video is just eye sugar). Log files are provided above.

Besides... the drone would have recorded the fall because it only shuts down the engines... not the drone.
2017-4-19
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RedTailHawk36
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taus Posted at 2017-4-19 08:38
I already wrote that I did not do the shutdown. It would be in the log files (overlaying them one the video is just eye sugar). Log files are provided above.

Besides... the drone would have recorded the fall because it only shuts down the engines... not the drone.

put it up on youtube. I'm downloading your DATA!
2017-4-19
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taus
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RedTailHawk36 Posted at 2017-4-19 18:57
put it up on youtube. I'm downloading your DATA!

It's already on youtube... linke above.

By the way, look at this thread http://mavicpilots.com/threads/d ... -crash.13367/page-3

(from post 38 and forward)...
2017-4-19
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keiser08
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Did you changed your battery on your third flight or is it the same battery? Sometimes if you start with a battery less than 95-100% it can cause sudden problems with your battery. I hope your drone is covered with warranty or you at least have DJI refresh.
2017-4-19
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taus
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keiser08 Posted at 2017-4-19 21:38
Did you changed your battery on your third flight or is it the same battery? Sometimes if you start with a battery less than 95-100% it can cause sudden problems with your battery. I hope your drone is covered with warranty or you at least have DJI refresh.

Really, your can't fly with 95% battery?

I did not charge the battery between flights, but the drone was not even turned off between the flights. I was just landing a couple of times. It was only 2-3 minutes flights and battery was above 50% when the drone failed.

But something was wrong with power (read the mavicpilots thread above). So you might be on to something!

Still no word from DJI. It was delivered on the 13th and still has status "to be received".

I will let you know what happens!
2017-4-19
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fishelectronics
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taus Posted at 2017-4-19 05:38
v01.03.0550

Newest at the time.

I was afraid it was .600 and downgraded to .0550 yesterday before fly. Looks like few failures happened on .6000 for folks. Waiting to know the reason of failure for your bird.
2017-4-19
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DroneFlying
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taus Posted at 2017-4-19 21:45
Really, your can't fly with 95% battery?

I did not charge the battery between flights, but the drone was not even turned off between the flights. I was just landing a couple of times. It was only 2-3 minutes flights and battery was above 50% when the drone failed.

Really, your can't fly with 95% battery?

Yes, you certainly can and there's nothing wrong with doing so.
2017-4-20
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SkunkWerxs
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keiser08 Posted at 2017-4-19 21:38
Did you changed your battery on your third flight or is it the same battery? Sometimes if you start with a battery less than 95-100% it can cause sudden problems with your battery. I hope your drone is covered with warranty or you at least have DJI refresh.

keiser,
          Your information is Absolutely Totally WRONG !!!!!!
"Flying with a battery with less then 95-100% can cause problems with the battery"
It's more like 30% and the only problem that it causes is Normal ---> Faster discharge from 30 to 0%
2017-4-20
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taus
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Update:

Today I got an email that the drone was received. One week after delivery, but to be fair, it was over Easter holidays.

Now waiting 1-2 days for diagnostics.
2017-4-20
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keiser08
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You guys need to relax. Let me paraphrase. I read somewhere here to fly at 100% as much as possible. I read that if your battery has been sitting on "let's say" 80% on storage then you flew it, there is a chance that the battery cells will suddenly drop. That really got stuck in my mind and I've been following it since November. You guys don't have to follow it but I'm just extra careful with my drone. I hope DJI Ken can give us an insight about flying a drone that is not fully charged. Good luck again to your case Taus, I hope you will get your warranty claim.
2017-4-20
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taus
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Update: Now the status on the repair page says “Some required information is missing for data analysis. We will contact you as soon as possible.”

I have not been contacted. I wonder what that could be. I synchronized the app and I was clearly told not to send in the SD card. I also wrote them an gave a link to this thread and the video that I uploaded.

Anyone knows what this means?
2017-4-23
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taus
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Update: After a few days of nothing with the "need more information" status I decided to use the chat to politely ask what is going on and if I could provide some information that would help.

I got this reply:

" Please be advised that as per DJI Policy, our current repair time is approximately 10-15 business days, excluding shipment and would dependent upon the availability of our stock. As I have checked your case, I can see that it is already pending and we are still within the time frame I have provided. Please be assured that we are doing our best for faster resolution of your issue (repair/replacement,etc). We will be notifying you via email for each progression on your case. "

So I replied with a thank you... The people of front line support are just people doing their best.

But I find it a little amusing that the company slogan for DJI is "The Future Of Possible".   
2017-4-24
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taus
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Update: It changed back to the same status as on the 20th. So now waiting 1-2 working days for diagnostics again. Nice to see some progress (I guess progress is a strong word since I am back to same status as last week, but at least it changes from time to time to keep me entertained).
2017-4-25
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taus
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Update: REAL PROGRESS!  

Dji diagnosis: Warranty unit, battery cut off. A new craft, gimbal, props and battery are required.

Will be done under warranty within 2-3 days, then sent back to me.

HURRAY
2017-4-25
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DroneFlying
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taus Posted at 2017-4-25 05:57
Update: REAL PROGRESS!  

Dji diagnosis: Warranty unit, battery cut off. A new craft, gimbal, props and battery are required.

I'm glad to hear that. DJI's support may have room for improvement, but they do seem to consistently be honest in analyzing the cause of crashes and taking responsibility for them when appropriate.
2017-4-25
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13MStang
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taus Posted at 2017-4-25 05:57
Update: REAL PROGRESS!  

Dji diagnosis: Warranty unit, battery cut off. A new craft, gimbal, props and battery are required.

I am glad to hear its a warranty repair but now it scares me to think even the Mavics just fall out of the sky.  I thought that was only a Karma feature
2017-4-25
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thehippoz
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taus Posted at 2017-4-25 05:57
Update: REAL PROGRESS!  

Dji diagnosis: Warranty unit, battery cut off. A new craft, gimbal, props and battery are required.

Good deal!
2017-4-25
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CelticWarrior
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taus Posted at 2017-4-25 05:57
Update: REAL PROGRESS!  

Dji diagnosis: Warranty unit, battery cut off. A new craft, gimbal, props and battery are required.

Good job, shows that dji can be trusted to do the right thing when it's warranted, and hopefully should put a halt to the conspirators and doubting Thomas's.
2017-4-25
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DroneFlying
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13MStang Posted at 2017-4-25 07:37
I am glad to hear its a warranty repair but now it scares me to think even the Mavics just fall out of the sky.  I thought that was only a Karma feature

I am glad to hear its a warranty repair but now it scares me to think even the Mavics just fall out of the sky.  I thought that was only a Karma feature

The vast majority of Mavics are flying just fine, but there have been a number of recent reports of Mavics spontaneously falling out of the sky with no obvious explanation. The best theory I've seen is that something happened in a batch manufactured starting some time in March, but at this point nobody's certain what the cause is or how many are affected. And of course it's always possible that these are just coincidences and that there is no common thread between them all.


2017-4-25
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CelticWarrior
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DroneFlying Posted at 2017-4-25 09:19
I am glad to hear its a warranty repair but now it scares me to think even the Mavics just fall out of the sky.  I thought that was only a Karma feature

The vast majority of Mavics are flying just fine, but there have been a number of recent reports of Mavics spontaneously falling out of the sky with no obvious explanation. The best theory I've seen is that something happened in a batch manufactured starting some time in March, but at this point nobody's certain what the cause is or how many are affected. And of course it's always possible that these are just coincidences and that there is no common thread between them all.

Well I suppose this one can be excluded, as it was the battery, or is it a problem with batteries, now that might explain , maybe a new firmware for batteries might be needed or a batch of faulty ones are out there.
2017-4-25
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RichJ53
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DroneFlying Posted at 2017-4-25 09:19
I am glad to hear its a warranty repair but now it scares me to think even the Mavics just fall out of the sky.  I thought that was only a Karma feature

The vast majority of Mavics are flying just fine, but there have been a number of recent reports of Mavics spontaneously falling out of the sky with no obvious explanation. The best theory I've seen is that something happened in a batch manufactured starting some time in March, but at this point nobody's certain what the cause is or how many are affected. And of course it's always possible that these are just coincidences and that there is no common thread between them all.

Mavic Pro has many parts and one can fail during operation without warning. I know this battery failure is more of a rare case to have this happen.... but these things are made by humans.,,   defects are just that.....  humans are not perfect and either is DJI.

My Mavic is still working great after coming back from the DJI shop (thankfully)

All the best
Rich
2017-4-25
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Jason Lane
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CelticWarrior Posted at 2017-4-25 09:50
Well I suppose this one can be excluded, as it was the battery, or is it a problem with batteries, now that might explain , maybe a new firmware for batteries might be needed or a batch of faulty ones are out there.

I wouldn't automatically assume this wasn't an issue within the Mavic itself. I think you might be taking DJI's wording too literally. Their description of the problem is fairly vague: "Battery cut off" could mean a variety of things.
2017-4-25
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Griffith
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taus Posted at 2017-4-9 08:06
... the connection was strong until the crash and the drone was relatively close by.

Glad you were able to get a resolution from DJI.  Just a comment on the discussion....

Not  sure, but I think the signal strength reported here relates to the signal received by the RC. It may not relate to what the Mavic sees. I think that information is in the .DAT files on the memory card. (unfortunately I was not able to download your DAT post due to limitations here at work). The notification you received was in the Mavic telemetry report so it is representative of the signal recieved by the Mavic
2017-4-25
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CelticWarrior
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Jason Lane Posted at 2017-4-25 10:08
I wouldn't automatically assume this wasn't an issue within the Mavic itself. I think you might be taking DJI's wording too literally. Their description of the problem is fairly vague: "Battery cut off" could mean a variety of things.


It also could be the truth, I can't see why they would admit to battery problem if there was something wrong with the aircraft, what would they be likely to gain from that.

Conspiracy theories are all very well and good but eventually you need a bit more proof, a lot of the ones of late have had similar problems and sudden loss of power is common in a lot of them, and power comes from the battery,
2017-4-25
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Jason Lane
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CelticWarrior Posted at 2017-4-25 10:19
It also could be the truth, I can't see why they would admit to battery problem if there was something wrong with the aircraft, what would they be likely to gain from that.

Conspiracy theories are all very well and good but eventually you need a bit more proof, a lot of the ones of late have had similar problems and sudden loss of power is common in a lot of them, and power comes from the battery,

I never said they lied. I just said the wording was vague, which is very common when communicating with DJI. It could be due to language barriers, or perhaps it's just because they're so busy and they don't have the time to give detailed analysis to every claimant.

Besides, even though it would be very hard to prove that it wasn't the battery that shut down, I think it would be equally as hard to prove that it was. I don't think there's enough evidence either way, and I'm not jumping to conclusions. No conspiracies here.
2017-4-25
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CelticWarrior
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Jason Lane Posted at 2017-4-25 10:28
I never said they lied. I just said the wording was vague, which is very common when communicating with DJI. It could be due to language barriers, or perhaps it's just because they're so busy and they don't have the time to give detailed analysis to every claimant.

Besides, even though it would be very hard to prove that it wasn't the battery that shut down, I think it would be equally as hard to prove that it was. I don't think there's enough evidence either way, and I'm not jumping to conclusions. No conspiracies here.

I never said you said they lied, but language barrier they're too busy, answer is very vague, or perhaps the battery cut out and that's what happened, I think if you have something else that disproves what happened here you could always enlighten us.
2017-4-25
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Jason Lane
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CelticWarrior Posted at 2017-4-25 10:42
I never said you said they lied, but language barrier they're too busy, answer is very vague, or perhaps the battery cut out and that's what happened, I think if you have something else that disproves what happened here you could always enlighten us.

I believe I just said that I don't think there's enough evidence to prove one way or the other, and I don't want to jump to conclusions.

Besides, why does it matter so much to you that it's proven to be a battery issue vs am aircraft issue? Does it make the issue any less significant, if the end result is still Mavics dropping from the sky?
2017-4-25
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CelticWarrior
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Jason Lane Posted at 2017-4-25 10:58
I believe I just said that I don't think there's enough evidence to prove one way or the other, and I don't want to jump to conclusions.

Besides, why does it matter so much to you that it's proven to be a battery issue vs am aircraft issue? Does it make the issue any less significant, if the end result is still Mavics dropping from the sky?

Besides, why does it matter so much to you that it's proven to be a battery issue vs am aircraft issue?

Firstly I'm not to sure why your sounding so aggressive about this, but maybe the same question could be asked to yourself.

On the battery front with p3p there was a problem with battery cutting out, and as far as I remember there was also similar problem with inspire when first introduced, both were sorted with battery firmware update, so if it is a battery problem who knows maybe firmware could sort it.
2017-4-25
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taus
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Griffith Posted at 2017-4-25 10:12
Glad you were able to get a resolution from DJI.  Just a comment on the discussion....

Not  sure, but I think the signal strength reported here relates to the signal received by the RC. It may not relate to what the Mavic sees. I think that information is in the .DAT files on the memory card. (unfortunately I was not able to download your DAT post due to limitations here at work). The notification you received was in the Mavic telemetry report so it is representative of the signal recieved by the Mavic

I agree that the signal strength has nothing to do with the crash. But the signal to the RC was lost at the same second as I saw the drone started to fall. Not because of bad reception because the reception was great in the minutes before. That tells me that it is not just the engines but the entire drone that is "off". That is all. Video and DAT files tells the same story.
2017-4-25
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taus
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I am not sure "battery cut off" means that the battery was the problem. It might be. They are replacing the battery too, but it was actually a little bit out of shape because of the impact so the fact that it is replaced proves nothing.

If they were to send the same battery back to me, I would probably never dare flying with it anyway :-)
2017-4-25
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Griffith
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I too agree that a complete shutdown was at fault. If both logs and video end abruptly, it's quite likely a catastrophic battery or PCB  failure.  Were  you able to recover the battery and, if so, were there any signs of overheating or cracks in the shell?  Was your Mavic manufactured in March?
2017-4-26
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taus
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Griffith Posted at 2017-4-26 04:18
I too agree that a complete shutdown was at fault. If both logs and video end abruptly, it's quite likely a catastrophic battery or PCB  failure.  Were  you able to recover the battery and, if so, were there any signs of overheating or cracks in the shell?  Was your Mavic manufactured in March?

Yes, March. No, everything looked fine (except for impact damage)
2017-4-26
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Willik
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taus Posted at 2017-4-26 05:23
Yes, March. No, everything looked fine (except for impact damage)

Curious here about the wood chips on the props.
If it was a battery cut off, why there are woodchips sticked on the prop (seems that one rotor was still spinning under some power, not only free-spin (cut-off) when falling) Or maybe just a temporary cut off, or losing power only for some of the rotors'??

Anyway, good luck for you!
Enjoy more fun with the new one!
2017-4-26
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taus
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Willik Posted at 2017-4-26 06:56
Curious here about the wood chips on the props.
If it was a battery cut off, why there are woodchips sticked on the prop (seems that one rotor was still spinning under some power, not only free-spin (cut-off) when falling) Or maybe just a temporary cut off, or losing power only for some of the rotors'??

The props are broken (I was not even able to find all of them). But I don't really see any wood on the picture. Are you seeing the wooden table? Anyway, it fell on a pathway in a forrest and may have fallen through a few branches before it hit the ground.
2017-4-26
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taus
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Willik Posted at 2017-4-26 06:56
Curious here about the wood chips on the props.
If it was a battery cut off, why there are woodchips sticked on the prop (seems that one rotor was still spinning under some power, not only free-spin (cut-off) when falling) Or maybe just a temporary cut off, or losing power only for some of the rotors'??

The props are broken (I was not even able to find all of them). But I don't really see any wood on the picture. Are you seeing the wooden table? Anyway, it fell on a pathway in a forrest and may have fallen through a few branches before it hit the ground.
2017-4-26
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Willik
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taus Posted at 2017-4-26 08:07
The props are broken (I was not even able to find all of them). But I don't really see any wood on the picture. Are you seeing the wooden table? Anyway, it fell on a pathway in a forrest and may have fallen through a few branches before it hit the ground.

Oh, you are right sorry, thats prop cracks not wood chips... didn't see it on the LQ pic.
2017-4-27
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odradek
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Hello,

I've been reading all (or most of all) the posts of this thread because something very similar happened to me today, on my first real flight.

First of all, I'm glad to read that DJI will replace your Mavic Pro under the terms of the warranty.

As for what happened to me today, I was flying my drone at around 1.5 meters high, I had just taken off and was stabilized, the Mavic was maybe 2 or 3 meters from me, so there was no connection problems, the battery was around 60% and I had just flewn it for few minutes (2 flights of 3/4 minutes each) just before, when... Suddenly, I saw the propellers just stop and the Mavic fall down in front of me. Fortunately, nothing broke. Since then, I keep thinking of what would have happened if I had been flying it at 30m above the ground or worse, above water like 'Sad Owner'.

I think I'm gonna keep looking for a 'solution' if there is one, before flying again because I cannot afford to lose a Mavic, I'm not rich enough and the money invested in it represents a lot for me...

Two more things in this (too) long post :
First, when this happened, I got a warning from my phone that its memory was almost saturated (because of the datas DJI GO 4 was wrinting on it), but I don't see how this could make the engines stop midair.
Second, and last thing, according to the link someone gave earlier, my Mavic Serial Number indicates it was built on the 23rd of march 2017... I must say I don't really believe in coincidences...
2017-4-27
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SadOwnerOfMavic
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odradek Posted at 2017-4-27 07:44
Hello,

I've been reading all (or most of all) the posts of this thread because something very similar happened to me today, on my first real flight.

And you're also from Europe
I'm still waiting what DJI has to say about my case.
2017-4-27
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Jason Lane
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odradek Posted at 2017-4-27 07:44
Hello,

I've been reading all (or most of all) the posts of this thread because something very similar happened to me today, on my first real flight.

Before you make too many more flights, you could try retrieving the .dat files from your Mavic and posting them for others to analyze. Perhaps start a new thread describing the details of your incident, too.
2017-4-27
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taus
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odradek Posted at 2017-4-27 07:44
Hello,

I've been reading all (or most of all) the posts of this thread because something very similar happened to me today, on my first real flight.

You are lucky that no harm was done, but I understand your concern.

I would look at mavicpilots.com and read the thread "Day 2 on Mavic - failure and crash". Then post the DAT files from the flight and see if  BudWalker or Robbyg will take a look at it for you. They are very good at this stuff. Also, you might want to buy the DJI Care Refresh insurance (I think it is wrong that you have to pay extra money because of failed product, but still).
2017-4-27
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