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When will DJI Implement "Forced ATTI" mode, (Disable/Ignore GPS)?
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ShokWaveRider
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I would love them to implement this setting like on other birds. I am wondering why it is not an option on the Mavic.
2017-4-13
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Danny-B-
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It's been discussed many many times, even DJI-Ken has asked the Dev team and they obviously dont want to ... why exactly, i'm not sure. Perhaps its because there's no dedicated switch, i dunno ...
2017-4-13
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Xman1
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Danny-B- Posted at 2017-4-13 07:33
It's been discussed many many times, even DJI-Ken has asked the Dev team and they obviously dont want to ... why exactly, i'm not sure. Perhaps its because there's no dedicated switch, i dunno ...

Probably because that would invalidate the NFZ maps.

I bet if you blocked the GPS sensors with some sort of metal that you could force ATTI mode.
2017-4-13
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DroneFlying
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Danny-B- Posted at 2017-4-13 07:33
It's been discussed many many times, even DJI-Ken has asked the Dev team and they obviously dont want to ... why exactly, i'm not sure. Perhaps its because there's no dedicated switch, i dunno ...

DJI-Ken has asked the Dev team and they obviously dont want to

Yes, and I seem to remember that at least once he even said that he doubted they ever would provide it on the Mavic.
2017-4-13
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DroneFlying
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I am wondering why it is not an option on the Mavic.

My personal guess -- and that's all it is, so take it for what it's worth -- is that they see the Mavic as more of a mass-market drone that will often be flown by less-serious users. Combine that with the fact that they want to make drones safer and less likely to create interesting headlines and you have a fairly compelling argument for not making it easy for pilots to deliberately (or accidentally) enable ATTI. One thing that is pretty certain, though, is that the lack of user-selectable ATTI mode wasn't just an oversight on their part.
2017-4-13
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Jason Lane
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Xman1 Posted at 2017-4-13 07:39
Probably because that would invalidate the NFZ maps.

I bet if you blocked the GPS sensors with some sort of metal that you could force ATTI mode.

There's no reason ATTI mode should invalidate the NFZ limitations. As far as I know, selecting ATTI mode on the other DJI drones does not actually disable the GPS. It just prevents the aircraft from using the GPS for position hold. I assume that the flight records of Phantoms in manually-selected ATTI mode still log the aircraft's location and flight patch.
2017-4-13
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Xman1
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Thanks for the clarification.  I was not aware that it would still enforce NFZ limitations.
2017-4-13
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hallmark007
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I suppose the question is what would Mavic Pilots do with Atti mode, most dji aircraft have a switch to go into Atti mode, if you ask phantom pilots or inspire what do they use Atti for, 99.9% will tell you they will use it if they happen to loose gps. Yes there are a few who turn it on because you can travel faster, but that's very few.
So they loose gps they can now use Atti mode so that's the same as Mavic pilots, I have my Mavic since November 2016, only once have I lost gps and gone into Atti mode for about 3 minutes, and I know there have been some around here that say it takes a while to kick in, but for me it was instant, I was flying forward with throttle and the aircraft started to go forward and left I stopped pushing forward but the aircraft continued to go forward and left, it took awhile to get my bearings and in this time Mavic had moved a further 60m before I could see my inputs having an effect, I controlled it somewhat using radar for direction, soon after I regained gps.
I have been taught if your aircraft goes into Atti mode the first thing you should do is find a safe place to land and do it as soon as you can, raising your AC gives your aircraft a better chance to regain gps.

I don't think it takes awhile to kick in, I think this is a problem with panic and inexperience. It takes time to gain control.
So it looks like people want it to practice Atti .But if you really want to learn how to fly Atti for $50 you can buy a cheap syma it has no gps it has no vision sensors and you can't do much damage, if Mavic had Atti button I would guess many more crashes for a lot of people.

The reality is Mavic has auto Atti and many can't use it, and even pilots flying inspire or phantom panic at the sight of lost gps.
2017-4-13
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JohnMcL7
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I've not used atti mode on either a Phantom or Mavic but everything I've read on the two has said the Phantom is reasonably stable and controlled while the Mavic isn't, it can drift significantly and is much more difficult to control than the Phantom in atti mode.  I've assumed that's a possible reason for not being able to set atti mode manually on the Mavic.
2017-4-13
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TommyJeep
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Forced ATTI mode is needed on the Mavic for when GPS is inconsistent.  Auto switching between GPS and ATTI is massively dangerous since it makes huge corrections.  I use the ATTI switch on my Inspire quite often.  This can be a software switch in Go 4 and I would be happy.
2017-4-13
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mmee
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I would think because it is easier to crash in ATTI mode for a new user that DJI limited it so that they dont have as many Care Refresh claims to pay out a new Mavic for.
2017-4-13
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DroneFlying
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JohnMcL7 Posted at 2017-4-13 13:20
I've not used atti mode on either a Phantom or Mavic but everything I've read on the two has said the Phantom is reasonably stable and controlled while the Mavic isn't, it can drift significantly and is much more difficult to control than the Phantom in atti mode.  I've assumed that's a possible reason for not being able to set atti mode manually on the Mavic.

everything I've read on the two has said the Phantom is reasonably stable and controlled while the Mavic isn't

Yes, that gets repeated a lot but it doesn't match my experience. I once forced my Mavic into ATTI mode using aluminum foil and it flew just fine but with the expected results: gliding to a stop and drifting with the wind. I've also seen DJI-Ken say that he's flown a Mavic in ATTI mode and had no trouble.

There's a YouTube video that's been making the rounds for a while of a guy who claims that the Mavic flies badly in ATTI mode, but I suspect that his maneuvering difficulties had a lot to do with the fact that he had a GoPro camera attached to the aircraft when he tried it.
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JohnMcL7
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DroneFlying Posted at 2017-4-13 14:47
everything I've read on the two has said the Phantom is reasonably stable and controlled while the Mavic isn't

Yes, that gets repeated a lot but it doesn't match my experience. I once forced my Mavic into ATTI mode using aluminum foil and it flew just fine but with the expected results: gliding to a stop and drifting with the wind. I've also seen DJI-Ken say that he's flown a Mavic in ATTI mode and had no trouble.

It's difficult to get controlled information since the Mavic can only be forced into atti mode with external modifications but I can't think of an instance I've read here where Phantom owners who have had a Mavic go into atti mode haven't found it to be problematic compared to the Phantom.  I've not seen any other logical reason for them not giving the option.
2017-4-14
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SkunkWerxs
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Xman1 Posted at 2017-4-13 07:39
Probably because that would invalidate the NFZ maps.

I bet if you blocked the GPS sensors with some sort of metal that you could force ATTI mode.

Xman1,

           I think you hit the nail right on the head


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SkunkWerxs
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DroneFlying Posted at 2017-4-13 14:47
everything I've read on the two has said the Phantom is reasonably stable and controlled while the Mavic isn't

Yes, that gets repeated a lot but it doesn't match my experience. I once forced my Mavic into ATTI mode using aluminum foil and it flew just fine but with the expected results: gliding to a stop and drifting with the wind. I've also seen DJI-Ken say that he's flown a Mavic in ATTI mode and had no trouble.

DronFlying ,

You and Xman1 I believe are correct -- your thought on the Mavic being not that stable when in Batti Mode in my opinion is too lite an to small  the smallest gust of wind will send it ---- it can be done you just have to be on ya toes  
2017-4-14
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DroneFlying
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JohnMcL7 Posted at 2017-4-14 03:08
It's difficult to get controlled information since the Mavic can only be forced into atti mode with external modifications but I can't think of an instance I've read here where Phantom owners who have had a Mavic go into atti mode haven't found it to be problematic compared to the Phantom.  I've not seen any other logical reason for them not giving the option.

I can't think of an instance I've read here where Phantom owners who have had a Mavic go into atti mode haven't found it to be problematic compared to the Phantom.

You're referring to those (mostly older) cases where a Mavic spontaneously and without explanation went into what was reported by the app as "ATTI" mode, correct?

It's very possible that what they encountered wasn't true ATTI at all but might involve the loss of just more than GPS and VPS. If, for example, the compass were also somehow affected then what they described is pretty much what you'd expect: an aircraft that's very difficult to control, hence the Bad Attitude (BATTI) label to distinguish it from "true" ATTI where only GPS and VPS are affected.

I've not seen any other logical reason for [DJI] not giving the option [besides lack of stability in ATTI mode].

I offered a possible explanation in an earlier post in this thread for why they might not; which part of it did you not find logical?

What I do know for a fact is that I've flown a Mavic in (true) ATTI mode and that it performed just fine, and -- other than the one YouTube video I mentioned -- all the contradictory comments I've seen on the subject appear to come from people who've never tried it and who are either speculating or just repeating what they've heard.
2017-4-14
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UAS Tactical
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DroneFlying Posted at 2017-4-13 07:41
I am wondering why it is not an option on the Mavic.

My personal guess -- and that's all it is, so take it for what it's worth -- is that they see the Mavic as more of a mass-market drone that will often be flown by less-serious users. Combine that with the fact that they want to make drones safer and less likely to create interesting headlines and you have a fairly compelling argument for not making it easy for pilots to deliberately (or accidentally) enable ATTI. One thing that is pretty certain, though, is that the lack of user-selectable ATTI mode wasn't just an oversight on their part.

Definitely a viable reason!
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JohnMcL7
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DroneFlying Posted at 2017-4-14 07:32
I can't think of an instance I've read here where Phantom owners who have had a Mavic go into atti mode haven't found it to be problematic compared to the Phantom.

You're referring to those (mostly older) cases where a Mavic spontaneously and without explanation went into what was reported by the app as "ATTI" mode, correct?

No, I'm referring to any cases of atti mode I've seen here or on other drone forums from people who have flown Phantoms and Mavics - your post is the first and only one I've seen that claims the Mavic has no issues in ATTI mode.
I don't think DJI have positioned the Mavic as a mass market drone nor do I think it's anywhere close to functioning as such, the small size and weight certainily widen its appeal but it's still extremely expensive (three to four times the cost of a basic Phantom 3 here) and it's a complex device.  The only people I know with mavics are those who are into drones and any others interested in the mavic especially when they see it flying are shocked at the price.  The simpler Spark looks like a move to appeal to a wider audience and the basic, cheap Phantom 3 does have a switch to atti mode so it makes a lot more sense that with the reported atti issues, DJI would want to avoid further issues and not allow a manual switch.

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DroneFlying
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JohnMcL7 Posted at 2017-4-14 11:24
No, I'm referring to any cases of atti mode I've seen here or on other drone forums from people who have flown Phantoms and Mavics - your post is the first and only one I've seen that claims the Mavic has no issues in ATTI mode.
I didn't find any of your earlier post logical, the Mavic may be smaller and lighter but it's still a long way from mass market drone as the cost is still high (could buy nearly four Phantom3's for the price)  and as evidenced by the large number of crashes caused by pilot error, DJI still have some way to go in fool proofing it.  The new rumoured Spark appears like it's aimed at a wider market but still far from mass market.  It makes far more sense that DJI wouldn't allow the ATTI mode option givne the frequent reported issues with rather than due to a market designation which makes no sense particularly when DJI sell far cheaper and more basic models that do have ATTI mode.

your post is the first and only one I've seen that claims the Mavic has no issues in ATTI mode

How many other posts besides mine have you seen from people who deliberately flew a Mavic in (true) ATTI mode? The posts you're talking about involved some type of hardware and / or software (firmware) problem that caused the Mavic to behave erratically; that's hardly the best evidence to use for speculation about how well the Mavic handles in ATTI mode. In contrast, here's the post where (DJI employee) Ken mentioned having flown a Mavic in ATTI mode and says that it was "rock solid" -- which matches my firsthand experience.

I didn't find any of your earlier post logical

So you don't think it's logical to suggest that DJI would expect the less expensive Mavic to be flown by more people -- and in some cases by less responsible pilots -- than their pricier Phantom line? Or that they'd want to make the Mavic less likely to crash? I see.

I do sometimes repeat things I've heard from others too, but personally I've found that it better to avoid being dogmatic when I do, especially when someone with firsthand experience disagrees.
2017-4-14
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MikeQView
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I would believe if the mavic handed over to a "TRUE" Atti mode, it would fly totally fine,  i fly many multirotors in TOTAL manual modes ( No stabalising at all ) , and combination of Atti type modes,  and even small models of this size will fly absolutely fine !   however if the ATTI mode stated isnt a true atti mode,  as it may be taking and acting on information from other sources/sensors then yes it will be a nightmare,  i fly the inspire in Atti along with many others and they are all fine, DJI are dragging their heels as rightly stated because of NFZ's etc and they are worried that, as rightly stated again that many newcomers will be crashing more frequently, i would happily have a true ATTI mode as a mode on this craft.
2017-4-14
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GMG
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After an incident where I lost GPS, despite bags of satellites and a strong signal, I'm a big advocate of having an ATTI option.  Given that it's not an option on the Mavic and I'd not used ATTI for awhile, it really caught me unawares.  If I was able to switch between it as an option, I'd be sure to practice from time to time.  I was lucky that I didn't total it, as there was some wind and it was near a stand of trees with the wind blowing toward them, so I almost lost it.  Another reason for this is that in at least one country if you wish use the Mavic for commercial reasons, demonstrating ability to fly confidently in ATTI is essential (e.g. in the UK).  So the lack of ATTI means you've got to find and spend time using another drone to qualify.
2017-4-14
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Jenee 2
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I have to say that it slightly annoys me when someone buys a product with stated features and then insists another feature be added because they want it. If you want to fly a drone in an ATTI style then buy a drone that allows you to do that.
I am extremely happy with what the Mavic currently offers and for probably the majority of us, we can fly it as it is and have lots of enjoyment doing so. I use every safety feature the Mavic offers because that is why I bought it.
I also have another cheaper drone with little stabilization and that is the one that gets thrown around and crashed occasionally. Having the Mavic has actually taught me to fly a lot better because I can practise in a more stable environment.
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Jason Lane
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Jenee 2 Posted at 2017-4-14 22:45
I have to say that it slightly annoys me when someone buys a product with stated features and then insists another feature be added because they want it. If you want to fly a drone in an ATTI style then buy a drone that allows you to do that.
I am extremely happy with what the Mavic currently offers and for probably the majority of us, we can fly it as it is and have lots of enjoyment doing so. I use every safety feature the Mavic offers because that is why I bought it.
I also have another cheaper drone with little stabilization and that is the one that gets thrown around and crashed occasionally. Having the Mavic has actually taught me to fly a lot better because I can practise in a more stable environment.

Asking for a manual switch for ATTI mode is not at all like wanting an "extra feature" for these drones. It's not like buying a car from the 80's and wishing it had self-driving capabilities. It's more like buying a Tesla, which has all the nice driver assistance and automated driving capabilities, but then not having the ability to disable those features if you need or want to. And there are many good reasons for wanting a manual switch for ATTI mode, discussed in some of the other threads on the topic.
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Jenee 2
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Jason Lane Posted at 2017-4-15 20:50
Asking for a manual switch for ATTI mode is not at all like wanting an "extra feature" for these drones. It's not like buying a car from the 80's and wishing it had self-driving capabilities. It's more like buying a Tesla, which has all the nice driver assistance and automated driving capabilities, but then not having the ability to disable those features if you need or want to. And there are many good reasons for wanting a manual switch for ATTI mode, discussed in some of the other threads on the topic.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one. Most of the other threads I have read on the issue keep saying that flying in ATTI is the only way to really learn to fly the drone.  All those people have to do is practise flying forward/back, circuits, figures of eight and they will learn control but in a safer way. If the new pilots spent several hours doing what I have described then they would stand a better chance of controlling the Mavic if it does happen to lose GPS. Unfortunately they want to fly over/around buildings or other structures, even in sport mode like a pro. It just doesn't happen like that. They have to crawl before that can walk and it can be tedious at times but better that than a crashed Mavic.
If you give them an ATTI switch then they will use it straight up and there will be more crashes.
2017-4-15
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Phantom Robin
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hallmark007 Posted at 2017-4-13 08:35
I suppose the question is what would Mavic Pilots do with Atti mode, most dji aircraft have a switch to go into Atti mode, if you ask phantom pilots or inspire what do they use Atti for, 99.9% will tell you they will use it if they happen to loose gps. Yes there are a few who turn it on because you can travel faster, but that's very few.
So they loose gps they can now use Atti mode so that's the same as Mavic pilots, I have my Mavic since November 2016, only once have I lost gps and gone into Atti mode for about 3 minutes, and I know there have been some around here that say it takes a while to kick in, but for me it was instant, I was flying forward with throttle and the aircraft started to go forward and left I stopped pushing forward but the aircraft continued to go forward and left, it took awhile to get my bearings and in this time Mavic had moved a further 60m before I could see my inputs having an effect, I controlled it somewhat using radar for direction, soon after I regained gps.
I have been taught if your aircraft goes into Atti mode the first thing you should do is find a safe place to land and do it as soon as you can, raising your AC gives your aircraft a better chance to regain gps.

Not loosing GPS , loosing a functional compass, if the mavic has no GPS, Atti is automatically selected, if the compass if wrong, then manual Atti is necessary
2017-4-16
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The Rev
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DroneFlying Posted at 2017-4-14 07:32
I can't think of an instance I've read here where Phantom owners who have had a Mavic go into atti mode haven't found it to be problematic compared to the Phantom.

You're referring to those (mostly older) cases where a Mavic spontaneously and without explanation went into what was reported by the app as "ATTI" mode, correct?

The Mavic in ATTI mode is nothing like a Phantom in ATTI mode and seems to be unstable and drift badly even with no wind but when it falls into this mode I don't think its ATTI mode really and more like BATTI mode as I lost 18 Satellites in 7 seconds and I think you also loose compass also but I think this problem is resolved with the last 2 firmware updates.
Wrap some foil around your Mavic and see what you think but make sure you are in open space especially if there is any wind
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Phantom Robin Posted at 2017-4-16 01:11
Not loosing GPS , loosing a functional compass, if the mavic has no GPS, Atti is automatically selected, if the compass if wrong, then manual Atti is necessary

If you loose compass you have another compass.
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The Rev Posted at 2017-4-16 01:34
The Mavic in ATTI mode is nothing like a Phantom in ATTI mode and seems to be unstable and drift badly even with no wind but when it falls into this mode I don't think its ATTI mode really and more like BATTI mode as I lost 18 Satellites in 7 seconds and I think you also loose compass also but I think this problem is resolved with the last 2 firmware updates.
Wrap some foil around your Mavic and see what you think but make sure you are in open space especially if there is any wind

I have used the Mavic in Atti it's the same as any aircraft flying without gps, it doesn't need wind to drift but it needs a competent pilot to control it, and no you don't loose compass when you loose gps.
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The Rev
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I know you don't usually loose compass but the fault that puts the Mavic into ATTI mode is not like the usual ATTI mode and with the stick fully left I couldn't stop it drifting right but managed to bring it down in a field and the second time GPS reception returned.
If they do give it a manual ATTI mode ill try it and compare but it was nothing like a Phantom 3 in ATTI mode.
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The Rev Posted at 2017-4-16 01:58
I know you don't usually loose compass but the fault that puts the Mavic into ATTI mode is not like the usual ATTI mode and with the stick fully left I couldn't stop it drifting right but managed to bring it down in a field and the second time GPS reception returned.
If they do give it a manual ATTI mode ill try it and compare but it was nothing like a Phantom 3 in ATTI mode.

Look I think it's like this, when you have a switch for Atti , which I agree we should have for the Mavic , when you switch to Atti you are already aware what's going to happen and can react in a split second and it's much easier to manage particularly if your in the air in open space and have VLOS .
When you loose gps and go into Atti mode without warning 3/4 seconds and your aircraft is some distance away it will have moved a fair bit of course and takes some time to regain your bearings so strange things can happen.
When your in an area with lots of obstacles at close quarters and this happens it can be very difficult to get control of your Mavic and in my opinion this is what happens in many cases , particularly those who take off without enough gps locked, maybe in this case it might be preferable to be able to set your Mavic Not to be able to take off, with say less than 12 sats and make this an option and a safety procedure for new flyers. Just a thought..
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The Rev Posted at 2017-4-16 01:34
The Mavic in ATTI mode is nothing like a Phantom in ATTI mode and seems to be unstable and drift badly even with no wind but when it falls into this mode I don't think its ATTI mode really and more like BATTI mode as I lost 18 Satellites in 7 seconds and I think you also loose compass also but I think this problem is resolved with the last 2 firmware updates.
Wrap some foil around your Mavic and see what you think but make sure you are in open space especially if there is any wind

Wrap some foil around your Mavic

As I indicated in my earlier comments I have done this. Is that what you did, or are you talking about how it flies when it spontaneously goes into "ATTI" mode (BATTI) for no apparent reason? If you've only experienced the latter, then you're essentially confirming what I said: that people who've experienced "spontaneous ATTI" (BATTI) mode find it hard to control.

I do remember that you previously mentioned having experienced BATTI mode, so I'm guessing your comments are based on that; have you also tried flying with the aluminum foil? If not, you should try it and I think you'll find that it flies just fine -- at least as long as you don't stick a GoPro camera on the Mavic like the guy with the YouTube video.
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The Rev
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DroneFlying Posted at 2017-4-16 03:56
Wrap some foil around your Mavic

As I indicated in my earlier comments I have done this. Is that what you did, or are you talking about how it flies when it spontaneously goes into "ATTI" mode (BATTI) for no apparent reason? If you've only experienced the latter, then you're essentially confirming what I said: that people who've experienced "spontaneous ATTI" (BATTI) mode find it hard to control.

Yes I am talking about BATTI mode so I may try the foil to see how it compares
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The Rev
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Does a P4P have ATTI mode or have they stopped this in all the latest Drones?
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DroneFlying
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The Rev Posted at 2017-4-16 04:24
Does a P4P have ATTI mode or have they stopped this in all the latest Drones?

Yes, the P4P still has ATTI mode.
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Eagle_Eye
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If you're in beginners mode and loose GPS will it go to atti mode or can you switch it to sports mode......sorry dumb nubee question.
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Does anyone know if the P4A is going to have ATTI mode?

I read "Atti Mode switches off satellite stabilization and holds  the Phantom 4  Advanced’s altitude" But that doesn't state it's a manual fearture.

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hallmark007 Posted at 2017-4-16 01:40
If you loose compass you have another compass.

I strongly disagree, i dare you to put your mavic, next to a magnet, or metal,  if it causes one compass to go haywire a second will act just as same, a second compass is only good to eliminate minor variables or fluctuations while in flight, but not when interference is severe. therefore manual atti is nessesary
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Phantom Robin Posted at 2017-4-16 08:35
I strongly disagree, i dare you to put your mavic, next to a magnet, or metal,  if it causes one compass to go haywire a second will act just as same, a second compass is only good to eliminate minor variables or fluctuations while in flight, but not when interference is severe. therefore manual atti is nessesary

What a ridiculous thing to say , leave your Mavic near something magnetic or metal, anyone who flys these aircraft would not do something so stupid, you make no sense what so ever, just think about what your saying , absolutely ridiculous....
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Eagle_Eye Posted at 2017-4-16 04:54
If you're in beginners mode and loose GPS will it go to atti mode or can you switch it to sports mode......sorry dumb nubee question.

Won't make any difference.
2017-4-16
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Rhidz Posted at 2017-4-16 04:57
Does anyone know if the P4A is going to have ATTI mode?

I read "Atti Mode switches off satellite stabilization and holds  the Phantom 4  Advanced’s altitude" But that doesn't state it's a manual fearture.

If you loose gps your altitude will remain the same because or your barometers it is barometers that keep your height from the ground stable.
There are many here who think because they have 16 satellites they are ok , really you need minimum of 8 satellites to fly safely, and although you are reading 16 satellites this can often be split between gps and glosnass, so if you loose gps you are now down to what glosnass satelites you have and maybe but I'm not sure some Chinese and Indian satellites.so when those who say they were flying with 16 satellites truth is they are likely flying with half that.
2017-4-16
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